Preexistence

Participant

Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 28 2012,07:51)

Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Mar. 28 2012,14:44)

Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 27 2012,14:25)

Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Mar. 27 2012,21:08)

Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 27 2012,12:54)

Quote

You come against what it is that I believe and teach in accordance with what is taught in Scripture

this is a oxymoron ;first you say I BELIEVE AND TEACH -THEN YOU SAY ACCORDING TO WHAT IS TAUGHT IN SCRIPTURES ,

SO YOU ARE THE FILTER OF ALL SCRIPTURES YOU ARE TOUCHING.

to me a read scriptures and believe what is written that simple ,

Pierre,

Yes, What I believe and teach is what I believe is taught in Scripture. I believe what it is that you believe is not what is taught in Scripture? For example, you believe that Yahshua pre-existed his birth as an actual being with Father Yahweh in the beginning when He created the heavens and the earth and ALL THINGS IN THEM. You also believe Yahshua created. Nowhere in Scripture does it ever teach such foolishness as this. It was either FATHER Yahweh Who created the heavens and the earth and ALL THINGS IN THEM or it either has to be that Yahshua created the heavens and the earth and ALL THING IN THEM

yes I do believe what scriptures says about Christ ,the WORD of God ,

and yes I believe that all things were created by God almighty and not Christ the son but through him,difference

Pierre,

So, you believe as I do that Yahshua did not create ANYTHING, right?

yes, scriptures says that it is through him that all thing were created

we can speculate what that mean of cause.

Pierre,

So, what do you SPECULATE that this means?

This is where we differ in belief, since I am not going to base the belief that Yahshua pre-existed his birth as an actual being and that he was WITH Father Yahweh in the beginning and that Father Yahweh created “THROUGH” his son Yahshua on the FEW occurrences of the mere Greek word di' or dia' in the so-called “New Testament” that has been translated as “through” or “by” in many translations translated by Trinitarians over (The MANY) some 107 Scripture verses and passages that clearly proclaim that Father Yahweh “ALONE”, 'BY HIMSELF' with 'NO ONE BESIDE HIM' created the heavens and the earth and ALL THINGS IN THEM. It is quite clear from these MANY verses and passages that Father Yahweh did not create “through” or “by” His son Yahshua as a pre-existent being that was 'BESIDE HIM', since Father Yahweh clearly said that there was no mighty one [“god, el, eloah, elohim, deity”] or redeemer [“saviour”] BESIDE HIM and that He 'KNEW NOT ANY'. Trintarian translators had no problem translating the FEW occurrences of the Greek word di' or dia' as “by” or “through”. As I have tryed to point out many times before on this forum, this Greek word di' or dia is also translated in these same translations as “on account of”, “because of” and “for”. Following is the information on how the Greek word di' or dia as been translated in these versions which are excerpts from two studies on this subject that I have posted to this forum previously:

Excerpt From Study 1

By Whom He Made The Worlds

“Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things,
BY WHOM also he made the worlds; …” (Heb. 1:2 KJV). The RSV reads, “… through whom he created the world.”

This very clearly states the world was created By the Son of Yahweh. This Son is Yahshua, of course. However, Scriptural evidence noted above indicates Yahweh did the creating, not Yahshua. Are we to believe the apostles and the Gospel writers wrote two ways, sometimes reporting that Yahweh is Creator, and at other times reporting that his Son is Creator? Indeed no.

More than 100 Scriptures state clearly that Yahweh is Creator and Maker of heaven and earth (Ex. 20:11). Some of these indicate that no other deity exist (Isa. 44:6). No other deity helped him in his creating acts (Neh. 9:6). Except for the angels, he was alone in the creation (Isa. 45:5-18). These are stated clearly – as clearly as Hebrews 1:2 states that Yahshua made the world.”

What shall we do? Do we cancel (erase, throw out) more than 100 Scriptures so that we can accept Hebrews 1:2 instead? Since this Scripture does not in most English versions agree with the 100, we should carefully examine Hebrews 1:2 and, hopefully, discover why it does not agree.

The Word “By”

Yahweh created the world “by” (through) the Son (Heb. 1:2 KJV). The Diaglott says Yahweh created the world “on account of” the Son. Any one of the three (“by,” “through,” or “on account of”) is, technically, a correct translation of the Greek word Di' or Dia. Dia is in the KJV translated several ways, but usually is translated as follows:

By – 243 times; through – 100 times; for – 106 times; because – 24 times; because of – 29 times; for the sake of – 32 times; etc.

The King's Men did not translate the WORD di' incorrectly in Heb. 1:2. By or through is a correct translation of the WORD, but ONLY IF THE MESSAGE in the sentence agrees, or allows it. But alas, in this case the message of the sentence will not allow this translation.

Reason #1. Heb 1:2a reveals Yahshua to be the heir of what was created.

Reason #2. More than 100 Scriptures show it was Yahweh (not Yahshua) who created the heavens and the earth. Heb. 1:2 must agree with the 100 other Scriptures. For a list of these [ask for] our paper, “Who Is the Creator?”

For these reasons, the sentence in Heb. 1:2b must have
originally read like the Diaglott reads today, Yahweh “… in the last of these days spoke to us by a Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, ON ACCOUNT OF whom also he constituted the ages; …”

Another acceptable translation would be, “… a Son, FOR whom he created the world.”

Many times the King James Version as well as more modern versions translate dia as “for,” “because of,” “therefore” (meaning “for this reason”). For a more detailed layout of the word di' (dia), [see] for our [study], “Hebrews 1:2 – Berry.”

This is not to say the the King's Men purposely mistranslated, nor is this to say they were dishonest. Not at all. On the contrary, they no doubt delivered what they believed to be the correct translation of Heb. 1:2. We must realize, however, that all of the King's Men believed the doctrine of the Trinity (one is three, and three are one). Believing this, they saw no contradiction between this Scripture (as they translated it
) and the 100 Scriptures which show that Yahweh the Father is truly and personally the Creator of the heaven and earth.

There are at least two other Scriptures in which di' should have been translated for, or on account of. These are Col. 1:16-17 and John 1:10. Let us review these Scriptures, then return to our study in the book of Hebrews.

Colossians 1:16,17

“For by him [*Yahshua] were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, … all things were created by him and for him” (Col. 1:16,17 KJV).

* Webmasters note: I believe that this also could be in reference to Father Yahweh and not to His son Yahshua. The same I believe can also apply in Yahchanan [John] 1:3.

Just as in Heb. 1:2, di' can be translated for, and on account of, as well as by or through. As indicated above, either way is technically correct for this WORD. However, the MESSAGE in this text must decide which is the proper translation. The same is true of the Greek word en (= the English in).

Since Yahweh is the Creator (Heb. 3:4; Ex. 20:11; Mt. 21:33; Mk. 12:7; Lk. 20:14), and Yahshua is the heir, then Col. 1:16,17 SHOULD TELL THE SAME STORY. Dozens of Scriptures in both Testaments tell us plainly that Yahweh is the Creator, and there is no other El but but him. He alone is the only true El, Eloah, Elohim, and Creator.

Yahshua and the New Testament writers proved everything by Old Testament Scriptures, therefore New Testament Scriptures should (and originally did) agree with Old Testament Scriptures. The New Testament Scriptures are based on the older ones. This being true, it seems that a more exact reading of Col. 1:16,17, and one which is agreeable to the Greek text, is as follows:

“For in [en = in, to, unto, as well as by] him were all things created, that are in [en] heaven, and that are on earth, … all things were created on account of [di'] him and for him.”

John 1:10

“He [the Light, Yahshua] was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not” (KJV).

As we have discovered above, to agree with other Scriptures, and with the context of the message, a more acceptable reading is as follows:

“He was in the world and the world was made for {di'} [on account of, because of] him, and the world knew him not.”
SOURCE

Excerpt From Study 2

This word di' (dia') is often translated “for,” “because of,” or “on account of.” Any one of these is much better in Hebrews 1:2 than by or through. Why? Because neither by nor through agrees with the message in the sentence. On the other hand, because of and on account of do agree. In every English version of the Scriptures di' and dia' are often translated for, because of, or on account of. This is true of translations into English from the Septuagint (Greek) Version also. But let us return to Hebrews 1:2.

As noted above, George Ricker Berry translates di' with the word by in Hebrews 1:2: “… the Son, … by whom also the worlds he made …” What about this word in other places in the Book of Hebrews? It is very revealing to note that a number of times Mr. Berry translates di' and dia' with the words for, because of, or on account of. Here is a partial list – ALL in the Book of Hebrews.

Heb. 1:9 – because of
Heb. 2:1 – on account of
Heb. 2:10 – for
Heb. 3:19 – on account of
Heb. 5:3 – on account of
Heb. 5:14 – because of
Heb. 7:18 – because of
Heb. 7:24 – because of
Heb. 13:2 – for
Heb. 1:14 – on account of
Heb. 2:9 – on account of
Heb. 2:12 – for
Heb. 4:7 – on account of
Heb. 5:12 – because of
Heb. 6:7 – for sake of
Heb. 7:23 – on account of
Heb. 10:2 – on account of

If Yahshua pre-existed: wonderful! But let us not deliver a false translation for the express purpose of promoting this view. Truth will stand without using this type of crutch.
SOURCE

I would also like to point out the three words “by Jesus Christ” have been erroneously ADDED by Trinitarian translators to Ephesians 3:9 in attempt to promote their “Triune God” as can clearly be seen in the following study:

EPHESIANS 3:9
THREE ADDED WORDS
By Voy Wilks
11/5/96

“And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things <>” (Eph 3:9, KJV).

Agreeing with this message are the following versions:

New King James Version
Holy Name Bible Amplified Version
William Tyndale Version
The Koster Version
The N.T. In Hebrew & English
Know Version Young's Literal Translation
The Geneva Bible (1602)
King James Version (1611-1996)

Bullinger's notes in the Companion Bible indicate the words “by Jesus Christ” are not in the Greek text. When we consult the NIV Interlinear Greek/English New Testament, we find the words “by Jesus Christ” are not in the text. The same is true of the Emphatic Diaglott and The Kingdom Interlinear Translation of the Greek Scriptures.

That these three words <> have been added to the text is evident, because this message disagrees with many Old Testament Scriptures. Yahweh is the Creator, not Yahshua the Messiah. Here are just three from more than 100 Scriptures which reveal that Yahweh is the Creator:

“My help comes from Yahweh, who made heaven and earth” (Ps. 121:1).

“By the word of Yahweh the heavens were made, and their hosts by the BREATH of his MOUTH. He gathered the waters of the sea as in a bottle; he put the deeps in storehouses. Let all the earth fear Yahweh, let all the inhabitants of the earth stand in awe of him! For he SPOKE, and it came to be; he COMMANDED, and it stood forth” (Ps. 33:6-9, RSV).

“Thus says Yahweh, your Redeemer, he who formed you from the womb: “I am Yahweh, the Maker of all things, I ALONE stretched out the heavens, and founded the earth BY MYSELF” (Isa. 44:24, Berkeley Version).

It is evident then, that the message (in Eph. 3:9 in the versions noted above) in incorrect. Yahweh alone created the heavens and the earth and all things in them. No one was with him. No one helped him (Isa. 40:12-14; 44:6; 44:24; 45:4,6,12; 48:12,13; Mal. 2:10). The same Apostle Paul who wrote Ephesians 3:9 wrote as follows:

“For who has known the mind of Yahweh, or who has been his councilor?” (Rom. 11:34).

The implication is: No one was with him. No one helped him. This is exactly the message we have found in the writings of the ancient prophets.

Below is a list of version which do not contain the added words: that is, the false message that Yahweh created all things <>.” The New Century Version states the message as clear as any, perhaps:

“And Yahweh gave me the work of telling all people about the plan of his secret, which has been hidden in him since the beginning of time. He is the One who created everything” (Eph. 3:9, New Century Version; Emphasis added).

Version Which Agree

American Revised Version
Beck Version
Twentieth Century N.T.
Emphasized Version
James Duncan Version (1836)
Revised Standard Version
The Bethel Bible
American Standard Version
Moffatt Translation
Bible In Basic English
New American Bible
Kingdom Interlinear Greek/English N.T.
Douay-Rheims Version
The Living Bible
The Bekelely Version
The New English Bible
The Fenton Version
The Estes Version
The Concordant Version
The Charles B. Williams Version
New Century Version
New International Version
Coneybeare Version
Phillips Version
Lamsa Version
NIV Interlinear Greek/English
Weymouth Version
New American Standard Version
Wuest Version
Good News Bible
The Jewish N.T.
Emphatic Diaglott (1863)
Cassirer V
ersion of the N.T.
The New World Translation
The Jerusalem Bible
The Norlie Version
The John Wycliffe Version (1385)
The Barclay Version
The Charles K. Williams Version

March 27, 2012 at 10:24 pm#288312

Participant

Quote

Pierre,

So, what do you SPECULATE that this means?

This is where we differ in belief, since I am not going to base the belief that Yahshua pre-existed his birth as an actual being and that he was WITH Father Yahweh in the beginning and that Father Yahweh created “THROUGH” his son Yahshua on the FEW occurrences of the mere Greek word di' or dia' in the so-called “New Testament” that has been translated as “through” or “by” in many translations translated by Trinitarians over (The MANY) some 107 Scripture verses and passages that clearly proclaim that Father Yahweh “ALONE”, 'BY HIMSELF' with 'NO ONE BESIDE HIM' created the heavens and the earth and ALL THINGS IN THEM. It is quite clear from these MANY verses and passages that Father Yahweh did not create “through” or “by” His son Yahshua as a pre-existent being that was 'BESIDE HIM', since Father Yahweh clearly said that there was no mighty one [“god, el, eloah, elohim, deity”] or redeemer [“saviour”] BESIDE HIM and that He 'KNEW NOT ANY'. Trintarian translators had no problem translating the FEW occurrences of the Greek word di' or dia' as “by” or “through”. As I have tryed to point out many times before on this forum, this Greek word di' or dia is also translated in these same translations as “on account of”, “because of” and “for”. Following is the information on how the Greek word di' or dia as been translated in these versions which are excerpts from two studies on this subject that I have posted to this forum previously:

I do not speculate ,I just add that comment that many do that ,

I will not go in wording fights and all the attachments ;

but what scriptures are simply saying ,I believe the scriptures the way they have been written and let God and Christ spirit guide me in it after all it is not my scriptures it is Gods ,I want to keep my heart pure of men false interpretation

March 27, 2012 at 10:33 pm#288321

Participant

Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 28 2012,08:58)

Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 28 2012,15:50)

Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 27 2012,12:54)

Quote

You come against what it is that I believe and teach in accordance with what is taught in Scripture

this is a oxymoron ;first you say I BELIEVE AND TEACH -THEN YOU SAY ACCORDING TO WHAT IS TAUGHT IN SCRIPTURES ,

SO YOU ARE THE FILTER OF ALL SCRIPTURES YOU ARE TOUCHING.

to me a read scriptures and believe what is written that simple ,

Hi Pierre,

You mean you believe what has been filtered to you through biased translates.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

edj

that s where the spirit comes in that is given to those who seek God with a pure heart,

Pierre,

The sword of the spirit is Father Yahweh's word.

Take the helmet of redemption and the sword of the spirit, which is the word of Yahweh (Ephesians 6:17).

It is quite obvious that you are totally relying on the erroneous translated words of Father Yahweh's prophetic inspired word translated by deceptive Trinitarian translators. If Trinitarians did not have their “pre-existent being 'Jesus IS God!' doctrine”, their “Triune God” would not have a leg to stand on!

March 27, 2012 at 10:36 pm#288324

Participant

Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Mar. 28 2012,16:33)

Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 28 2012,08:58)

Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 28 2012,15:50)

Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 27 2012,12:54)

Quote

You come against what it is that I believe and teach in accordance with what is taught in Scripture

this is a oxymoron ;first you say I BELIEVE AND TEACH -THEN YOU SAY ACCORDING TO WHAT IS TAUGHT IN SCRIPTURES ,

SO YOU ARE THE FILTER OF ALL SCRIPTURES YOU ARE TOUCHING.

to me a read scriptures and believe what is written that simple ,

Hi Pierre,

You mean you believe what has been filtered to you through biased translates.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

edj

that s where the spirit comes in that is given to those who seek God with a pure heart,

Pierre,

The sword of the spirit is Father Yahweh's word.

Take the helmet of redemption and the sword of the spirit, which is the word of Yahweh (Ephesians 6:17).

you did not think much on what i have said do you ??

and if you did then you really under estimate the powers of God to the pure in heart

March 27, 2012 at 10:49 pm#288328

Participant

Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Mar. 28 2012,09:33)

Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 28 2012,08:58)

Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 28 2012,15:50)

Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 27 2012,12:54)

Quote

You come against what it is that I believe and teach in accordance with what is taught in Scripture

this is a oxymoron ;first you say I BELIEVE AND TEACH -THEN YOU SAY ACCORDING TO WHAT IS TAUGHT IN SCRIPTURES ,

SO YOU ARE THE FILTER OF ALL SCRIPTURES YOU ARE TOUCHING.

to me a read scriptures and believe what is written that simple ,

Hi Pierre,

You mean you believe what has been filtered to you through biased translates.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

edj

that s where the spirit comes in that is given to those who seek God with a pure heart,

Pierre,

The sword of the spirit is Father Yahweh's word.

Take the helmet of redemption and the sword of the spirit, which is the word of Yahweh (Ephesians 6:17).

Pierre,

One more point to add to this is that you believe that Yahshua is in actuality Father Yahweh's word as a pre-existent being that existed with Him in the beginning in whom He created “THROUGH”.

I would like you to note that the sword of the spirit which is Father Yahweh's word proceeds out of Yahshua's mouth signifying that he is the spokesman of his and our Father Yahweh's word in this last time period as Hebrews 1:1-2 makes perfectly clear.

And the rest were killed with the sword which came from the mouth of him [Yahshua] who sat on the horse, and all the birds were filled with their flesh (Revelation 19:21).

March 27, 2012 at 10:58 pm#288335

Participant

Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 28 2012,09:36)

Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Mar. 28 2012,16:33)

Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 28 2012,08:58)

Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 28 2012,15:50)

Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 27 2012,12:54)

Quote

You come against what it is that I believe and teach in accordance with what is taught in Scripture

this is a oxymoron ;first you say I BELIEVE AND TEACH -THEN YOU SAY ACCORDING TO WHAT IS TAUGHT IN SCRIPTURES ,

SO YOU ARE THE FILTER OF ALL SCRIPTURES YOU ARE TOUCHING.

to me a read scriptures and believe what is written that simple ,

Hi Pierre,

You mean you believe what has been filtered to you through biased translates.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

edj

that s where the spirit comes in that is given to those who seek God with a pure heart,

Pierre,

The sword of the spirit is Father Yahweh's word.

Take the helmet of redemption and the sword of the spirit, which is the word of Yahweh (Ephesians 6:17).

you did not think much on what i have said do you ??

and if you did then you really under estimate the powers of God to the pure in heart

Pierre,

No, I really do not care what it is that you say, just as it is quite obvious from what you said concerning the studies that I just previously presented to that you do not care for what it is that I say. What I am basically concerned with is what it is that Father Yahweh says, (the “This says Yahweh …” given in Scripture) and not YOU or YOUR mere powerless “God”.

March 27, 2012 at 11:08 pm#288339

Did Yahshua Create Or Pre-exist His Birth?

Participant

Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 28 2012,09:24)

Quote

Pierre,

So, what do you SPECULATE that this means?

This is where we differ in belief, since I am not going to base the belief that Yahshua pre-existed his birth as an actual being and that he was WITH Father Yahweh in the beginning and that Father Yahweh created “THROUGH” his son Yahshua on the FEW occurrences of the mere Greek word di' or dia' in the so-called “New Testament” that has been translated as “through” or “by” in many translations translated by Trinitarians over (The MANY) some 107 Scripture verses and passages that clearly proclaim that Father Yahweh “ALONE”, 'BY HIMSELF' with 'NO ONE BESIDE HIM' created the heavens and the earth and ALL THINGS IN THEM. It is quite clear from these MANY verses and passages that Father Yahweh did not create “through” or “by” His son Yahshua as a pre-existent being that was 'BESIDE HIM', since Father Yahweh clearly said that there was no mighty one [“god, el, eloah, elohim, deity”] or redeemer [“saviour”] BESIDE HIM and that He 'KNEW NOT ANY'. Trintarian translators had no problem translating the FEW occurrences of the Greek word di' or dia' as “by” or “through”. As I have tryed to point out many times before on this forum, this Greek word di' or dia is also translated in these same translations as “on account of”, “because of” and “for”. Following is the information on how the Greek word di' or dia as been translated in these versions which are excerpts from two studies on this subject that I have posted to this forum previously:

I do not speculate ,I just add that comment that many do that ,

I will not go in wording fights and all the attachments ;

Pierre,

Yes, you do SPECULATE! You SPECULATE that YOUR “Jesus” pre-existed his birth and you SPECULATE this from the erroneous, foolish, false, deceptive, biased, and demonic Trinitarian translations of Father Yahweh's prophetic word.

“Jesus IS God!”?

March 27, 2012 at 11:15 pm#288340

Did Yahshua Create Or Pre-exist His Birth?

Participant

Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Mar. 28 2012,17:08)

Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 28 2012,09:24)

Quote

Pierre,

So, what do you SPECULATE that this means?

This is where we differ in belief, since I am not going to base the belief that Yahshua pre-existed his birth as an actual being and that he was WITH Father Yahweh in the beginning and that Father Yahweh created “THROUGH” his son Yahshua on the FEW occurrences of the mere Greek word di' or dia' in the so-called “New Testament” that has been translated as “through” or “by” in many translations translated by Trinitarians over (The MANY) some 107 Scripture verses and passages that clearly proclaim that Father Yahweh “ALONE”, 'BY HIMSELF' with 'NO ONE BESIDE HIM' created the heavens and the earth and ALL THINGS IN THEM. It is quite clear from these MANY verses and passages that Father Yahweh did not create “through” or “by” His son Yahshua as a pre-existent being that was 'BESIDE HIM', since Father Yahweh clearly said that there was no mighty one [“god, el, eloah, elohim, deity”] or redeemer [“saviour”] BESIDE HIM and that He 'KNEW NOT ANY'. Trintarian translators had no problem translating the FEW occurrences of the Greek word di' or dia' as “by” or “through”. As I have tryed to point out many times before on this forum, this Greek word di' or dia is also translated in these same translations as “on account of”, “because of” and “for”. Following is the information on how the Greek word di' or dia as been translated in these versions which are excerpts from two studies on this subject that I have posted to this forum previously:

I do not speculate ,I just add that comment that many do that ,

I will not go in wording fights and all the attachments ;

Pierre,

“Jesus IS God!”?

well so this is the end of our discussion right ??

March 28, 2012 at 12:17 am#288351

mikeboll64

Blocked

Hi Frank and Gene.

Nick has been so kind as to bring this scripture to our attention:

1 John 1:1
That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched—this we proclaim concerning the Word of life.

Who exactly is this “Word of life” that John and others have seen with their own human eyes, and touched with their own human hands?

Surely it couldn't be “the spirit of Christ” as Nick thinks, because human hands can't touch spirits, nor can human eyes see them.

March 28, 2012 at 12:35 am#288354

Ed J

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 28 2012,11:17)

Hi Frank and Gene.

Nick has been so kind as to bring this scripture to our attention:

1 John 1:1
That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched—this we proclaim concerning the Word of life.

Who exactly is this “Word of life” that John and others have seen with their own human eyes, and touched with their own human hands?

Surely it couldn't be “the spirit of Christ” as Nick thinks, because human hands can't touch spirits, nor can human eyes see them.

Hi Mike,

“The Word” of life is “The Spirit” of life. (see John 6:63)
They handled the word of life by giving it to others.

“What? came the word of God out from you?
or came it unto you only? (1 Cor 14:36)

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

March 28, 2012 at 1:09 am#288363

mikeboll64

Blocked

1 John 1:1 NLT ©
The one who existed from the beginning is the one we have heard and seen. We saw him with our own eyes and touched him with our own hands. He is Jesus Christ, the Word of life.

Now, I'm not going to pull a jammin on you here and say this translation PROVES my point. But I list it to show you exactly how I understand 1 John 1:1.

I truly believe this is what John was saying, Ed.

March 28, 2012 at 1:18 am#288368

Ed J

Participant

Hi Mike,

1 John 1:1-3 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked
upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life; (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness,

and show unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;)
That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship
with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Chris

Romans 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised
up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

March 28, 2012 at 1:44 am#288379

Participant

Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 28 2012,19:18)

Hi Mike,

Romans 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised
up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

edj

1Jn 1:1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched—this we proclaim concerning the Word of life.
1Jn 1:2 The life appeared; we have seen it and testify to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us.
1Jn 1:3 We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ.
1Jn 1:4 We write this to make our joy complete.

1Jn 1:5 This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all.

why is it that you have to change scriptures to mean what you like or wish to see

March 28, 2012 at 1:59 am#288382

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 28 2012,12:09)

1 John 1:1 NLT ©
The one who existed from the beginning is the one we have heard and seen. We saw him with our own eyes and touched him with our own hands. He is Jesus Christ, the Word of life.

Now, I'm not going to pull a jammin on you here and say this translation PROVES my point. But I list it to show you exactly how I understand 1 John 1:1.

I truly believe this is what John was saying, Ed.

Mike,

THE NEW LIVING TRANSLATION IS A PARAPHRASED TRANSLATION AND A VERY POOR TRANSLATION AT THAT!

Father Yahweh's word is an “it”, not an actual being that existed ALONG SIDE OF Father Yahweh in the beginning when He created the heavens and the earth and ALL THINGS IN THEM. Father Yahweh “ALONE”, “BY HIMSELF”, with “NO ONE BESIDE HIM” created the heavens and the earth and ALL THINGS IN THEM.

Just as Father Yahweh's set apart [“holy”] spirit is and “it”, so is His word an “it”!

The Holy Spirit Is An It!
The Holy Spirit Is Not A Person Or A Being!

March 28, 2012 at 2:01 am#288383

Participant

Quote

The Holy Spirit Is Not A Person Or A Being!

that is correct

March 28, 2012 at 2:03 am#288384

Participant

Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 28 2012,12:44)

Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 28 2012,19:18)

Hi Mike,

Romans 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised
up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

edj

1Jn 1:5 This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all.

why is it that you have to change scriptures to mean what you like or wish to see

Pierre,

Scripture has been CHANGED LONG AGO by Trinitarian translators!

March 28, 2012 at 2:05 am#288385

Participant

Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Mar. 28 2012,20:03)

Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 28 2012,12:44)

Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 28 2012,19:18)

Hi Mike,

Romans 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised
up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

edj

1Jn 1:5 This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all.

why is it that you have to change scriptures to mean what you like or wish to see

Pierre,

Scripture has been CHANGED LONG AGO by Trinitarian translators!

I know ,but they could not change the message

March 28, 2012 at 2:05 am#288386

Participant

Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 28 2012,13:01)

Quote

The Holy Spirit Is Not A Person Or A Being!

that is correct

Pierre,

And Father Yahweh's word is also Not A Person Or A Being!

March 28, 2012 at 2:13 am#288387

Participant

Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Mar. 28 2012,20:05)

Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 28 2012,13:01)

Quote

The Holy Spirit Is Not A Person Or A Being!

that is correct

Pierre,

And Father Yahweh's word is also Not A Person Or A Being!

that is not correct,because it is in the message

March 28, 2012 at 2:15 am#288390