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Nick,
Because I believe the scriptures. There is no “hidden agenda” or anything. It's just that the angel said he IS the Christ on the day he was born, and I believe that angel.
I also believe Simeon when he said God kept His promise to let him see His Christ before he died. After seeing the 8 day old Jesus, Simeon said he could now die in peace.
The real question is why you would fight so hard AGAINST those scriptures, Nick. What “hidden agenda” do YOU have? Perhaps the fact that your doctrine falls to pieces (even more than it already has) if Jesus was born the Christ of God?
Quote (t8 @ Mar. 22 2012,10:42) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Mar. 22 2012,09:21) It was Mike who said I was silly and I simply return to him and call him a fool and you disapprove of my word when both words basically mean the same?
Frank.There is a difference between being foolish and being a fool just as there is a difference between prophesying and being a prophet. Even the wisest among us can do foolish things.
Would it be correct to say that if you run, you are runner, if you fish you are a fisherman, or if you sin you are a sinner. We know that sinners do not inherit the Kingdom and we know that the righteous can sin.
Usually a runner is someone who practices running and a fool is someone who practices foolish things, not a person who does a foolish thing, which we all do from time to time.
It is a difference in judging the person rather than an individual action. An individual action does not define a person, but calling someone a fool does.
You can call an act foolish, but you should not call a person a fool. It is foolish to call someone a fool.
t8,Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Mar. 22 2012,13:11) Quote (t8 @ Mar. 22 2012,10:42) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Mar. 22 2012,09:21) It was Mike who said I was silly and I simply return to him and call him a fool and you disapprove of my word when both words basically mean the same?
Frank.There is a difference between being foolish and being a fool just as there is a difference between prophesying and being a prophet. Even the wisest among us can do foolish things.
Would it be correct to say that if you run, you are runner, if you fish you are a fisherman, or if you sin you are a sinner. We know that sinners do not inherit the Kingdom and we know that the righteous can sin.
Usually a runner is someone who practices running and a fool is someone who practices foolish things, not a person who does a foolish thing, which we all do from time to time.
It is a difference in judging the person rather than an individual action. An individual action does not define a person, but calling someone a fool does.
You can call an act foolish, but you should not call a person a fool. It is foolish to call someone a fool.
t8,
t8,Ah! Just more foolishness on your part!?
Hi MB,
So any ideas about the anointing?
Was he anointed again at the Jordan?
Or just your carnal competitiveness in action?Nick,
Was Saul anointed with Holy Spirit after he was the anointed one of God? Yes.
The anointing of someone had to do with them being chosen, as in “God's Chosen One”. The actual rubbing on of oil was for demonstration purposes only – the anointing was done when that one was chosen to have oil rubbed on him, IMO. For example, Saul had already been anointed (chosen) by God before Samuel put the oil on him to SHOW he had been anointed by God. (Although, people in that part of the world anointed themselves with oil daily because of the dust and heat and drying out skin.) Jesus was anointed in that he was “set apart as God's very own and sent into the world”.
Both Cyrus and Moses were anointed ones of God, yet there is no mention of them physically being anointed with oil. Nor are they said to have been “anointed” with Holy Spirit.
Like Jesus, they were anointed in that God chose them, and set them apart for a special task/purpose, IMO.
Hi MB,
Did God influence Cyrus?
2 Chronicles 36:22
Now in the first year of Cyrus king of Persia—in order to fulfill the word of the LORD by the mouth of Jeremiah—the LORD stirred up the spirit of Cyrus king of Persia, so that he sent a proclamation throughout his kingdom, and also put it in writing, sayingSo God set them apart.
So also with JesusHi Mike,
Do you think Simeon could have anointed Jesus with oil
when he was 8 days old? …like Samuel anointed Saul?God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgHi MB,
So anointing does not mean setting apart.
It is in the type of the anointing of kings with oil.Except it is by the Spirit as at the Jordan.
No what you read about the infant is prophetic
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 21 2012,12:21) Quote (david @ Mar. 19 2012,22:33) Quote (mikeboll @ 64) And I've already mentioned in another post, that this angel wasn't looking back in time from the future, saying the one who EVENTUALLY TURNED INTO THE CHRIST was born in such and such a year. Instead, this angel said he was born the Christ ON THE VERY DAY HE WAS BORN. Do you have an example for that?
No, so here is some more examples from google similar to the other ones…………….
Why would you list more examples when the first ones didn't fit the category?
David, can you comprehend the difference between someone from the future looking back into the past and speaking about when a king was born – and a person calling someone “the king” in real time?
The angel was not looking back into the past from the future talking about when the Christ was born. He spoke in real time, as it happened. And his words were that the Christ was born TODAY. He said this ON THE DAY the Christ was born of Mary.
Could you at least acknowledge that you understand this BIG difference?
Yes, I of course understand the difference, but I'm saying that it was WRITTEN DOWN many many years later, AFTER Jesus had become the Christ.Jesus was put on the earth to do certain things. One was to become the anointed one who would save mankind.
When retelling the story of the Christ, do you not think a person could call him the “Christ” despite him not fitting into that position yet?
Maybe we aren't even talking about the same verse any more. (I'm in too many threads)
Quote Luke 2
11 Today in the town of David a SAVIOR has been born to you; he is CHRIST the Lord.ok, even if you define savior as “one who saves,” who was Jesus saving at that time? Had he saved anyone at his birth, or any years around that time?
No. Yet, when this was written (after he had saved many and after “messiah (christ) the leader” appeared [dan 9]), he was of course referred to as both savior and Christ–for he was both those things and fulfilled both those roles.
Quote Is Jesus Christ YOUR personal Savior right now – today? I assume you'll say “YES”, in which case, I want to know: 1. Have you yet gone off into everlasting life?
2. Have you come face to face with your Savior while he judged you favorably in the sight of God and His angels, and set you apart with the other sheep?
3. Have you received your glorious, new, imperishable body yet?it was his ransom sacrifice that made life possible. When he did that, he effectively sacrificed himself so others could be saved.
God is also called a savior and this is because it was his purpose for his son to do this and he allowed this to happen. But, God wasn't a savior in this sense before it happened. God wasn't always a savior. He wasn't a savior before mankind existed, for example. He wasn't a savior until he started 'saving.'Words have meaning.
Quote David, read this scripture:
Acts 2:36
“Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ.”This scripture makes it sound as if Jesus didn't become the Christ until after he was crucified.
I didn't get that impression from the scripture. This is like where Jammin keeps saying that Christ means the son of God because the one scripture says: You are the Christ, the son of God.
“I'm okay with that. But you will most likely not change my mind, since the angel in Luke 2 CLEARLY says Jesus was BORN the Christ.”
Does the angel say that? ARe we looking at the same scripture? Which scripture exactly are you referring to?
I think for me, the Dan 9, where the prophecy exists of “messiah the leader” appearing and being cut off is mostly what I am going on. Of course, Jesus appeared much earlier, but the prophecy pointed to when messiah (anointed one) would appear.
I know this verse can be understood in many ways.
And the verse that you mostly focus on, I see it as the writer looking back and writing about the Christ (even though he wasn't the christ when he was born.)
I just don't understand how you can't see that when people are speaking of persons of high station and recalling their life, they tend to speak that way:
“Sir Henry was born on…” yet, he wasn't born a sir.
“Knight lancelot grew up in…” yet he wasn't a knight in childhood.
“Alexander the Great was born in …” yet, he wasn't so great when he was born….
etc.
The account of Jesus was written well after he was Christ. Well after he played a roll as Savior. So, when recounting his birth, he could say that the Savior and Christ were born….
Yet, he was not Christ or Savior at that time. Dan 9 points to Christ appearing at a specific time and half way through the weak (3 1/2 years) he was cut off in death.
So, if we place his being born at the time of messiah the leader appearing, when does that put his being “cut off” in death? When he was 3 1/2? Or, how do you understand that verse?
YAHWEH MADE THE HEAVENS AND THE EARTH AND ALL THAT IS IN THEM
(Exodus 20:10)107 Scriptures (RSV used and edited with RESTORATION OF HIS NAME) affirming Father Yahweh to be THE ONLY Creator of the heavens and the earth and ALL THINGS IN THEM.
From this list of Scriptures from Mattithyah 11:25 and on, you will find from what is recorded in the so-called “New Testament” and from Yahshua himself that Father Yahweh is THE CREATOR of the heavens and the earth and ALL THINGS IN THEM. There is not one Scripture “rightly divided” that affirms that FATHER Yahweh's SON Yahshua created ANYTHING or that he pre-existed his birth as an actual being and that in turn was a creator or a co-creator with Him in the beginning.
The following list of Scriptures should be sufficient to prove to anyone without a doubt that it was Father Yahweh “ALONE” and “BY HIMSELF” with “NO ONE BESIDE HIM” Who created the heavens and the earth and ALL THINGS IN THEM.
Blessed is he whose help is in the Almighty One [Mighty One, El, Eloah, Elohim – Yahweh, Gen. 2:4; Ex. 20:10; Deut. 4:35,39] of Yaaqob, whose hope is in Yahweh his Almighty One, Who made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them; … (Psalms 146:5-6).
Gen. 1:1 In the beginning the Almighty One [Mighty One, El, Eloah, Elohim – Yahweh, Gen. 2:4; Ex. 20:10; Deut. 4:35,39] created the heavens and the earth.
Gen. 1:11 And the Almighty One [Mighty One, El, Eloah, Elohim – Yahweh, Gen. 2:4; Ex. 20:10; Deut. 4:35,39] said “Let the earth put forth vegetation, plants yielding seed, and fruit trees bearing fruit in which is their seed, each according to its kind, upon the earth.
Gen. 1:16 And the Almighty One [Mighty One, El, Eloah, Elohim – Yahweh, Gen. 2:4; Ex. 20:10; Deut. 4:35,39] made the two great lights, the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night; He made the stars also.
Gen. 1:21 So the Almighty One [Mighty One, El, Eloah, Elohim – Yahweh, Gen. 2:4; Ex. 20:10; Deut. 4:35,39] created the great sea creatures and every living creature that moves.
Gen 1:25 And the Almighty One [Mighty One, El, Eloah, Elohim – Yahweh, Gen. 2:4; Ex. 20:10; Deut. 4:35,39] made the beast of the earth according to their kinds and the cattle according to their kinds, and everything that creeps upon the ground according to its kind.
Gen. 1:27 So the Almighty [Mighty One, El, Eloah, Elohim – Yahweh, Gen. 2:4; Ex. 20:10; Deut. 4:35,39] created man in His own image, … male and female He created them, … .
Gen. 2:4 Theses are the generations of the heavens and the earth when they were created. In the day that Yahweh Almighty made the earth and the heavens, … .
Gen. 2:7 “… then Yahweh Almighty formed man of the dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being.
Gen. 2:18,21-22 Then Yahweh Almighty said, “It is not right]that man should be alone; I will make him a helper fit for him.” … So Yahweh Almighty caused a deep sleep to fall upon him, and while he slept took one of his ribs … and the rib which Yahweh Almighty had taken from man He made into a woman … .
Gen. 2:19 So out of the ground Yahweh Almighty formed every beast of the field and every bird of the air, … .
Gen. 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtle than any wild creature that Yahweh Almighty had made.
Gen. 5:1-2 This is the book of the generations of Adam. When the Almighty [Mighty One, El, Eloah, Elohim – Yahweh, Gen. 2:4; Ex. 20:10; Deut. 4:35,39] created man, He made him in the likeness of [a mighty one]. Male and female He created them, … .
Gen. 6:7 So Yahweh said, “I will blot man whom I have created from the face of the ground, man and beast and creeping things and birds of the air, for I am sorry that I have made them.”
Gen. 14:18-19,22 And Melchizedek king of Salem brought out bread and wine; … And he blessed him and said, “Blessed be Abram by the Almighty One [Mighty One, El, Eloah, Elohim – Yahweh, Gen. 2:4; Ex. 20:10; Deut. 4:35,39], maker of heaven and earth; … .
** Shabbat Shalom!
**Ex. 20:10 … for in six yoms YAHWEH MADE HEAVENS AND EARTH, AND ALL THAT IS IN THEM, … .
**Ex. 31:17 It [7th of 7 Shabbat] is a sign for ever between Me and the people of Ysryl that in six yoms Yahweh made heaven and earth, … .
**Deut. 4:19,32,35,39 And beware lest you lift up your eyes to heaven, and when you see the sun and the moon and the stars, and all the host of heaven, you be drawn away and worship them and serve them, things which Yahweh your Almighty One has created for all the peoples under the whole heaven, … For ask now of the yoms that are past, which were before you, since the day that the Almighty [Mighty One, El, Eloah, Elohim – Yahweh, Gen. 2:4; Ex. 20:10] created man upon the earth, … To you it was shown that you might know that Yahweh is the Almighty One; there is no other beside Him. Out of heaven He let you hear His voice, … know therefore this day, and lay it to your heart, that Yahweh is the Almighty One in heaven above and on the earth beneath; there is no other.
** Shabbat Shalom!
1 Sam. 2:8 For the pillars of the earth are Yahweh's, and on them He has set the world.
1 Kings 8:12 Yahweh has set the sun in the heavens, … .
2 Kings 19:15 And Hezekyah prayed before Yahweh and said, “O Yahweh, Mighty One of Ysryl, … You are Almighty, You alone, … You have made heaven and earth.”
1Chr. 16:26 For all the “Gods” of the nations are idols, but Yahweh made heaven and earth (cf. 1 Corinthians 8:4-6)
2 Chr. 2:12 … Blessed be Yahweh Almighty of Ysryl, Who made heaven and earth, Who has given King David a wise son, … .
Nehemyah 9:6 You are Yahweh, You alone, You have made heaven, the heaven of heavens, with all their hosts, the earth and all that is in it, the seas and all that is in them; … .
Iyyob 9:2,5-10 But how can a man be just before the Almighty [Mighty One, El, Eloah, Elohim – Yahweh, Gen. 2:4; Ex. 20:10; Deut. 4:35,39] … He Who overturns mountains, … Who shakes the earth out of its place, … Who commands the sun, and it does not rise, Who seals up the stars; Who alone stretched out the heavens, … He created the Bear and the Orion, the Pleiades and the constellations in the south. He performs great deeds that can not be physically understood, yes, and miraculous feats that can not be counted.
Iyyob 12:7-10 But ask the beast and they will teach you; the birds of the air and they will tell you; or the plants of the earth, and they will teach you; and the fish of the sea will declare to you. Who among all these does not know that the hand of Yahweh has not done this? In His hand is the life of every living thing and the breath of all mankind.
Iyyob 26:7-10 He [Yahweh, Gen. 2:4; Ex. 20:10]; stretches out the north over the void, and hangs the earth upon nothing. He binds up the waters in His thick clouds, and the cloud is not rent under them. He covers the face of the moon, … He has described a circle upon the face of the waters at the boundary between the light and darkness.
Iyyob 28:24-26 For He [Yahweh, Gen. 2:4; Ex. 20:10]; looks to the ends of the earth, and sees everything under the heavens, When He gave the wind its weight, and meted out the waters by measure; when He made a decree for the rain, … .
Iyyob 37:14-18 Hear this O Iyyob; stop and consider the wondrous works of the Almighty One [Mighty One, El, Eloah, Elohim – Yahweh, Gen. 2:4; Ex. 20:10; Deut. 4:35,39]. … Can you, like Him spread out the skies?
Ps. 19:1 The heavens are telling the esteem of the Almighty One [Mighty One, El, Eloah, Elohim – Yahweh, Gen. 2:4; Ex. 20:10; Deut. 4:35,39]; and the firmament proclaims His handy work.
Ps. 24:1-2 The earth
is Yahweh's and the fullness thereof, the world and those who dwell in it; for He has founded it upon the seas, and established it upon the rivers.Ps. 33:6,9 By the word of Yahweh the heavens were made, and all the host by the BREATH OF HIS MOUTH. For HE SPOKE, and it came to be; HE COMMANDED and it stood forth.
Ps. 50:1,10-12 The Mighty One, Almighty Yahweh speaks and summons the earth from the rising of the sun to its setting. … For every beast of the forest is Mine, the cattle on a thousand hills, I know all the birds of the mountains, and all that moves in the field is Mine . If I were hungry, I would not tell you; for the world and all that is in it is Mine.
Ps. 74:16 Yours [Yahweh, Gen. 2:4; Ex. 20:10] is the day, Yours [Yahweh, Gen. 2:4; Ex. 20:10] also the night; You [Yahweh, Gen. 2:4; Ex. 20:10] have established the luminaries and the sun. You [Yahweh, Gen. 2:4; Ex. 20:10] have fixed all the bounds of the earth; You have made the summer and the winter.
Ps. 89:6-11 For who in the sky can be compared to Yahweh? Who among the heavenly things is like Yahweh, an Almighty One feared in the council of the set apart [holy, sanctified] ones, great and terrible above all that are round about Him? O Yahweh Almighty of hosts, who is mighty as You are, O Yahweh, … The heavens are Yours, the earth also is Yours; the world and all that is in it, You have founded them.
Ps. 90:1-2 Yahweh, You have been our dwelling place in all generations. Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever You had formed the earth and the world, from everlasting to everlasting You are are Almighty.
Ps. 93:1-2 Yahweh reigns; He is robed in majesty; Yahweh is robed, He is girded with strength. Yes, the world is established; it shall never be moved; Your throne is established from of old; You are from everlasting.
Ps. 95:1-7 O come, let us sing to Yahweh; let us make a joyful noise to the rock of our redemption! Let us come into His presence with thanksgiving; let us make a joyful noise to Him with songs of praise! For Yahweh is a great Mighty One, and a great King above all other mighty ones. In His hand are the depths of the earth; the heights of the mountains are His also. The sea is His, for He made it; for His hands formed the dry land. O come let us worship and bow down, let us kneel before Yahweh, our Maker! For He is our Almighty One, and we are the people of His pasture, and the sheep hand.
Ps. 96:5 For all the Gods of the nations are idols; but Yahweh made the heavens (cf. 1 Corinthians 8:4-6).
Ps. 102:25-27 Of old You [Yahweh, Gen. 2:4; Ex. 20:10] did lay the foundation of the earth, and the heavens are the work of Your hands. They will perish, but You do endure; … You are the same, and Your years have no end.
Ps. 104:1-9 O Yahweh my Mighty One, You are great! You … Who has stretched out the heavens like a tent, … You did set the earth on its foundations, … You did set a bound that they shall not pass, so that they might not cover the earth.
Ps. 104:19,24 You [Yahweh, verses 1,16] have made the moon to mark the seasons; the sun knows its time of setting. … O Yahweh, how manifold are Your works! In wisdom You have made them all.
Ps. 115:15-16 May you be blessed by Yahweh, Who made heaven and earth! The heavens are Yahweh's heavens, but the earth He has given to the sons of men.
Ps. 119:89-90 For ever, O Yahweh, Your word is firmly fixed in the heavens. Your faithfulness endures to all generations; You have established the earth, and it stands fast. By Your appointment they stand this day; for all things are Your servants.
Ps. 121:1 My help comes from Yahweh, Who made heaven and earth.
Ps. 124:8 Our help is in the Name Yahweh, Who made heaven and earth.
Ps. 134:3 May Yahweh bless you from Zion, He Who made heaven and earth!
Ps. 135:5-7 For I know that Yahweh is great, and that our Sovereign is above all other mighty ones “[Heb. – el, eloah, elohim, or English – god or gods]. Whatever He pleases He does, in heaven and on earth, in the seas and all deeps. He it is Who makes the clouds rise at the end of the earth, Who makes lightning for the rain … .
Ps. 136:4-9 … to Him [Yahweh, verse 1] Who by understanding, made the heavens, … spread out the earth upon the waters, … Who made the great lights, … the sun to rule by day, and the moon to rule by night, … .
Ps. 146:5-6 Blessed is he whose help is in the Almighty One [Mighty One, El, Eloah, Elohim – Yahweh, Gen. 2:4; Ex. 20:10; Deut. 4:35,39] of Yaaqob, whose hope is in Yahweh his Almighty One, Who made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them; … .
Ps. 148:1-6 Praise Yahweh! Praise Him sun and moon, praise Him all you shining stars! Praise Him, you highest heavens, and you waters above the heavens! Let them praise the Name Yahweh! For He commanded and they were created [by Him]. And He established them for ever and ever; He fixed their bounds which cannot be passed.
Pro. 3:19 Yahweh by wisdom founded the earth; by understanding He established the heavens; by His knowledge the deep broke forth, … .
Prov. 22:2 The rich and the poor meet together; Yahweh is the Maker of them all.
Prov. 30:4 Who has ascended up to heaven and come down? Who has gathered the wind in His fist? Who has wrapped the waters up in a garment? Who has established all the ends of the earth? What is HIS Name, and what are His son's names?
Eccl. 11:15 As you do not know how the spirit comes to the bones in the womb of a woman with a child, so you do not know the work of the Almighty One [Mighty One, El, Eloah, Elohim – Yahweh, Gen. 2:4; Ex. 20:10; Deut. 4:35,39] Who makes everything.
Isayah 17:7 In that day men will regard their Maker [Yahweh, verses 3,6] and their eyes will look upon the Set Apart [“Holy”] One of Ysryl; … .
Isayah 37:16 O Yahweh of host, the Almighty One [Mighty One, El, Eloah, Elohim – Yahweh, Gen. 2:4; Ex. 20:10; Deut. 4:35,39] of Ysryl, You are enthroned above the cherubim, You are the Almighty One [Mighty One, El, Eloah, Elohim – Yahweh, Gen. 2:4; Ex. 20:10; Deut. 4:35,39], You alone, of all the kingdoms of the earth; You have made heaven and earth.
Isayah 40:12-14 Who has measured the waters in the hollow of His hand and marked off the heavens with a span, enclosed the dust of the earth in a measure and weighed the mountains in scales and the hills in a balance? Who has directed the Spirit of Yahweh, or as His counselor instructed Him? Whom did He consult for His enlightenment, and who taught Him … knowledge, and showed Him the way of understanding?
Isayah 40:22 It is He [Yahweh, Gen. 2:4; Ex. 20:10] Who sits above the circle of the earth, and its inhabitants are like grasshoppers; Who stretches out the heavens like a curtain, and spreads them like a tent to dwell in; … ?
Isayah 40:28 Have you not known? Have you not heard? Yahweh is the everlasting Almighty One [Mighty One, El, Eloah, Elohim – Yahweh, Gen. 2:4; Ex. 20:10; Deut. 4:35,39], the Creator of the ends of the earth. He does not faint or grow weary, His understanding is unsearchable.
Isayah 42:5,8 This says the Almighty One, Yahweh, Who created the heavens and stretched them out, Who spread forth the earth ans what comes from it, Who gives breath to the people upon it and spirit to those who walk in it; … I am Yahweh, that is My Name; My esteem I will give to no other, nor My praise to graven images.
Isayah 43:1,15 But now this says Yahweh, He Who created you, O Yaaqob, He Who formed you, O Ysryl, … “I am Yahweh, your Set Apart [“Holy”] One, the Creator of Ysryl your King.
Isayah 44:6 This says Yahweh, the King of Ysryl and his Redeemer, Yahweh of hosts; “I am the first and I am the last; besides Me there is no source of power [Heb. – *el, eloah
, elohim, or English – god or gods].* From the Hebrew root 'yl' or 'wl' meaning 'power, strength, might or authority'.
Isayah 44:24 This says Yahweh, your Redeemer, Who formed you from the womb: “I am Yahweh, Who made all things, who stretched out the heavens alone, Who spread out the earth – *Who was with Me?
*Note: The KJV reads “… by Myself.”
Isayah 45:5,6,12 I am Yahweh, and there is no other, besides Me there is no Mighty One; I gird you [Cyrus], though you do not know Me, that men may know from the rising of the sun and from the west, that there in none besides Me; I am Yahweh, and there is no other. … I made the earth, and created man upon it; it was My hands that stretched out the heavens, and I commanded all their hosts.
Isayah 45:18 For this says Yahweh, Who created the heavens – He is Mighty, Who formed the earth and made it – He established it; He did not create it a chaos, He formed it to be inhabited! “I am Yahweh and there is NO OTHER.”
Isayah 48:12-13 Listen to Me, O Yaaqob, and Ysryl, whom I called! I am He [Yahweh, verse 2], I am the first, and I am the last. My hand laid the foundation of the earth, and My right hand spread out the heavens; I CALLED TO THEM, they stand forth together.
Isayah 51:12-13,16 I, I am He that comforts you; who are you that you are afraid of man who dies, of the son of man who is made like grass, and have forgotten Yahweh, your Maker, Who stretched out the heavens and laid the foundations of the earth, and fear continually all the day because of the fury of the oppressor, when he sets himself to destroy? And where is the fury of the oppressor? … And I have put My words in your mouth, and hid you in the shadow of My hand, stretching out the heavens and laying the foundations of the earth, and saying to Zion, “You are My people.”
Isayah 54:5 For your Maker is your husband, Yahweh of hosts is His Name; and the Set Apart [“Holy”] One of Ysryl is your Redeemer, the Mighty One of the whole earth He is called.
Isayah 65:13,17-19 Therefore this says Yahweh the Almighty One [Mighty One, El, Eloah, Elohim – Yahweh, Gen. 2:4; Ex. 20:10; Deut. 4:35,39]: “For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth; and the former things shall not be remembered or come into mind. But be glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create; for behold, I create Yerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy. I will rejoice in Yerusalem, and be glad in My people; no more shall be heard in it the sound of weeping and the cry of distress.”
Isayah 66:1-2 This says Yahweh: “Heaven is My throne and the earth is My footstool; what is the house which you would build for Me, and what is the place of My rest? All these things My hand has made, and so all these things are Mine,” says Yahweh. … .
Yeremyah 5:22 “Do you fear Me? says Yahweh; Do you not tremble before Me? I placed the sand as for the bound for the sea, a perpetual barrier which it cannot pass; though the waves toss, they cannot prevail, though they roar, they cannot pass over it.”
Yeremyah 10:6,10-13 There is none like You O Yahweh; You are great, and Your Name is great in might. … But Yahweh is the true Almighty One [Mighty One, El, Eloah, Elohim – Yahweh, Gen. 2:4; Ex. 20:10; Deut. 4:35,39]; He is the living Almighty One and the everlasting King. … It is He Who made the earth by His power, Who established the world by His wisdom, and by His understanding stretched out the heavens. When He utters His voice there is a tumult of waters in the heavens, and He makes the mist rise from the ends of the earth. He makes lightnings for the rain, and He brings forth the wind from His storehouses.
Yeremyah 14:22 Are there any among the false mighty ones [Heb. – el, eloah, elohim, or English – god or gods] of the nations that can bring rain? Or can the heavens give showers? Are You not He, O Yahweh our Almighty One? We set our hope on You, for you have done all these things.
Yeremyah 23:24 “Can a man hide himself in secret places so that I can not see him? says Yahweh, Do I not fill heaven and earth?” says Yahweh.
Yeremyah 27:4-5 “Give them this charge for their masters: This says Yahweh of host, the Almighty One of Ysryl: This is what you shall say to your masters: … It is I by My great power and My outstretched arm have made the earth, with the men and animals that are on the earth, and I give it to whomever it seems right to Me.”
Yeremyah 31:35-36 This says Yahweh, Who gives the sun for light by day and the fixed order of the moon and the stars for light by night, Who stirs up the sea so the waves roar – Yahweh of host is His Name.
Yeremyah 32:17,27 'Ah Yahweh Almighty! It is You Who have made the heavens and the earth by Your great power and by Your outstretched arm! Nothing is too hard for You, … “Behold I am Yahweh, the Almighty One of all flesh; is anything too hard for Me?”
Yeremyah 33:2 … This says Yahweh Who made the earth, Yahweh Who formed it to establish it – Yahweh is His Name: … .
Yeremyah 51:14-15 Yahweh of host has sworn by himself: Surely I will fill you with men, as many as locust, and they shall raise the shout of victory over you. It is He Who made the earth by His power, Who established the world by his wisdom, and by His understanding stretched out the heavens.
Amosyah 4:13 For lo, He Who forms the mountains, and creates the wind, and declares to man what is His thought; Who makes the morning darkness, and treads on the heights of the earth – Yahweh Almighty of host is His Name!
Amosyah 9:5-6 Yahweh, Almighty of hosts, He … Who builds His upper chambers in the heavens, and founds His vault upon the earth; Who calls for the waters of the sea, and pours them out upon the surface of the earth – Yahweh is His Name.
Yahnah 1:9 And he [Yahnah] said to them … “I am a Hebrew and I fear Yahweh, the Almighty One of heaven, Who made the sea and the dry land.”
Zecharyah 12:1 The word of Yahweh concerning Ysryl: This says Yahweh Wh stretched out the heavens and founded the earth and formed the spirit of man within him.
Malakyah 2:10 Have we not all ONE Father [Yahweh, verse 8]? Has not ONE Mighty One created us?
Mattithyah 11:25 At the time Yahshua declared, “I thank You Father, Master of heaven and earth, that you have hidden these things from the wise and understanding and revealed them to babes; …”
Mattithyah 19:4 He (Yahshua) answered, :Have you not read that He Who made them from the beginning made them male and female, …”.
Mattithyah 19:26 But Yahshua looked at them and said to them, “With men this is impossible, but with Yahweh all things are possible.”
Yahchanan Mark 10:5-6 But Yahshua said unto them, … “But from the beginning of creation Yahweh made them male and female.”
Yahchanan Mark 13:5,19 And Yahshua began to say to them, “Take heed that no one leads you astray. … “For in those days there shall be such tribulation as has not been from the beginning of the creation which Yahweh created until now, …” .
Acts 4:24-27 And when they heard it, they lifted their voices together to Yahweh and said, “Sovereign Master, Who it is the made the heavens and the earth and the sea and everything in them, … for truly in this city there were gathered together against Your set apart [“holy”] servant Yahshua, whom You did anoint, …”
Act 7:48-50 Yet the Most High does not dwell in house made with hands; as the prophets say, 'Heaven is My throne, and earth My footstool. what house will you build for me, says Yahweh, or what is the place of my rest? Did not My hand make all these things?'
Acts 14:15 Men why are you doing this? We also are men of like nature with you, and bring you glad tidings, that you should turn from these vain things to the living Yahweh Who made
the Heavens and the earth and the sea and all that is in them.Act 17:23-26 For as I passed along, and observed the objects of your worship, I found also an altar with the inscription, “To The Unknown God.” That, then, you ignorantly worship, I announce to you: Yahweh, Who made the world and everything in it, being Master of heaven and earth, does not live in shrines made by man, nor is served by human hands, as though He needed anything, since He Himself gives to all men life and breath and everything. And He made from one, every nation of men to live on the face of the earth, having determined allotted periods and the boundaries of their habitation, … .
Rom. 1:19-20 For what can be known about Yahweh is plain to them, because Yahweh has shown it to them. Ever since His creating the world His invisible nature, NAMELY,His ETERNAL POWER and His being the ALMIGHTY ONE [Mighty One, *El, Eloah, Elohim – Yahweh, Gen. 2:4; Ex. 20:10; Deut. 4:35,39], has been clearly perceived in the things that He has created. So they are without excuse; … .
* From the Hebrew root 'yl' or 'wl' meaning 'power, strength, might or authority'.
Rom. 1:25 … because they changed the truth about the Almighty One [Mighty One, El, Eloah, Elohim – Yahweh, Gen. 2:4; Ex. 20:10; Deut. 4:35,39] for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator (Yahweh), Who is blessed for ever! So be it!
Rom. 11:33-34,36 O the depth of the riches and wisdom and knowledge of Yahweh! How unsearchable are His judgments and how inscrutable His ways! For who has known the mind of Yahweh?, or who has been His counselor? … For from Him and through Him and to Him are all things. To Him be esteem for ever! So be it.
1 Cor. 8:4-6 Hence, as to the eating of food offered to idols, we know that 'an idol has no real existence,' and that 'there is no Yahweh but ONE.' for although there may be so-called “Gods”[Heb. – el, eloah, elohim, or English – god or gods] in heaven or on the earth – as indeed there are many “Gods” and many “Lords” – yet for us there is only ONE Almighty One [Mighty One, El, Eloah, Elohim – Yahweh, Gen. 2:4; Ex. 20:10; Deut. 4:35,39], the Father, from Who are all things and for Whom we exist, and one Redeemer, Yahshua Messiah for* whom are all things and for*, whom we exist.
* Note: The Greek word is di' and can as correctly be translated 'for', 'on account of ' or 'because of '.
Eph. 3:9 … though I am the very least of all the saints, this favor was given, to preach to the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Messiah, and to make all men see what is the plan of the mystery hidden for ages in Yahweh Who created all things; … .
(Note: “by Jesus Christ” [KJV] are ADDED words).
1 Tim. 2:5 For there is ONE Almighty One [Mighty One, El, Eloah, Elohim – Yahweh, Gen. 2:4; Ex. 20:10; Deut. 4:35,39], and there is one mediator between Yahweh and men, the man Messiah Yahshua.
1 Tim 4:3 … who forbid marriage and enjoin abstinence from food which Yahweh created to be received with thanksgiving … .
1 Tim. 6:14-16 I charge you to keep the commandment unstained and free from reproach until the appearing of the Redeemer Yahshua Messiah; and this will be made manifest (made known or revealed) at the proper time BY the blessed and ONLY SOVEREIGN, the KING OF KINGS and SOVEREIGN OF SOVEREIGNS, WHO ALONE has immortality and dwells in unapproachable light, Whom no man can see. To Him be honor and eternal dominion. So be it.
Heb. 1:1-2 In many and various ways Yahweh spoke of old to our fathers by the prophets; but in the end time period He has spoken to us by His Son, whom He appointed the heir of all things on account of* whom he also created the world.
(Note: “on account of whom …” – Emphatic Diaglott)
Heb.2:9-11 But we see Yahshua, who for a little while was made lower than the malakim [“angels”], crown with esteem and honor because of the suffering of death, so that by the favor of Yahweh he might taste death for everyone. For it was fitting that He (Yahweh), for Whom and by Whom all things exist, in bringing many sons to esteem, should make [Yahshua] the pioneer of their redemption perfect through suffering. For he [Yahshua] sets apart [“hallows or sanctifies”] and those who are set apart [“hallowed or sanctified”] have all ONE ORIGIN. That is why he [Yahshua] is not ashamed to call them brothers, … .
Heb. 3:4 (For every house is built by someone, but the builder of all things is Yahweh.)
Heb. 11:3 By belief we understand that the world was created by the [spoken] word [command, breath, therefore voice] of Yahweh (Gen. 1:3,6,9 etc.; Ps. 33:6,9], so that what is seen was made out of things which do not appear.
Heb. 11:10 For he looked forward to the city … whose builder and Maker is Yahweh.
Rev. 4:11 Worthy are You O Yahweh, to receive esteem and honor and power, for You have created all things, and by Your will they exist and were created.
Rev. 10:6 …and swore by Him Who lives for ever and ever, Who created heaven and what is in it, and the sea and what is in it, that there should be no more delay, … .
Rev. 14:7 … and he said with a loud voice, “Fear Yahweh and give Him esteem, for the hour of His judgment has come; and worship Him Who made heaven and earth, the sea and the fountains of water.”
THERE IS ONE SUPREME BEING
Not A Trinity Or Twinity (Duality)
From: Revised Standard Version (Edited With RESTORATION OF HIS NAME)
Ex.20:2 “I am [not, we are] Yahweh your Almighty, Who brought you out of the land of Egypt …”
Ex. 33:19 “I will [not, we] … proclaim before you my [not, our] Name Yahweh.” Name, not Names.
Isayah 40:28 “Yahweh is the everlasting Almighty One, the Creator of the ends of the earth.”
Isayah 41:16 “And you shall rejoice in Yahweh; in the Set Apart [“Holy”] One [not, Two, Three {Trinity} , or Twinity {Duality}] of Ysryl you shall give esteem.” 23 times in chapter 41, Yahweh refers to Himself as I , not We. Several times He refers to Himself as He, not Us or We.
Isayah 42:8 “I [not, We] am Yahweh, that is My [not, Our] Name [not, Names]; My [not, Our] esteem I [not We] give to no other, nor My [not, Our] praise to graven images.”
Isayah 43:3,14,15 “For I [not, We] am [not, are] Yahweh [not, Yahwehs] your Almighty, the Set Apart [“Holy”] One of Ysryl, your Redeemer [not, Redeemers].” Set Apart [“Holy”] One, not Set Apart [“Holy”] Ones. The following Scriptures refer to Yahweh as the Set Apart [“Holy”] One: Isayah 45:11; 47:4; 48:17; 49:7,26.
Isayah 44:6 “This says Yahweh [not, Yahwehs], the King [not, Kings] of Ysryl and his Redeemer [not, Redeemers], Yahweh [not, Yahwehs] of host: 'I [not, We] am [not, are] the first and I [not, We] am [not, are] the last; beside Me [not, Us] there is no god.'”
Isayah 44:8 “Is there a Mighty One beside me? There is no Rock; I know not any.”
Isayah 45:5-6 “I am Yahweh, and there is no other, beside Me there is no god; I gird you [Cyrus], though you do not know Me, , that men may know, from the rising of the sun and from the west, that there in none besides Me; I am Yahweh and there is no other.”
Isayah 45:14 This is what Yahweh says; “The labor of Egypt, and the merchandise of Ethiopia and of the Sabians, men of stature, will come over you, and they will be yours. They will come after you; in chains they will come over, and they will fall down to you, and they will make supplication to you, saying; 'Surely Yahweh is in you, and there is none else, there is no other source of power!'”
Isayah 45:18 “For this says Yahweh, Who created the heavens (He is Mighty!), Who formed the earth and made it; … I [not, We] am [not, are] Yahweh [not, Yahwehs] and there i
s no other.”Isayah 45:21 “Who declared it of old? Was it not I Yahweh? And there is no other Mighty One besides Me.”
Isayah 45:22 “For I am the Mighty One and the is no other.”
Isayah 46:9 “…. for I am the Mighty One and there is no other, I am the Mighty One and there is none like Me.”
Hi,
Why did the Jews think that Jesus claiming he was the Son of God
MEANT
that he was claiming equality with God?For David,
Luke 2
10 But the angel said to them, “Do not be afraid. I bring you good news of great joy that will be for all the people. 11 Today in the town of David a Savior has been born to you; he is Christ the Lord. 12 This will be a sign to you: You will find a baby wrapped in cloths and lying in a manger.”You guys can either believe the God-inspired, real-time, direct quote of this angel on the day Jesus was born, or not.
I choose to believe.
David, your point about “savior” was addressed in the form of a scripture that you apparently overlooked when cherry picking parts of my posts to address. Here it is again:
1 Chronicles 16:35
“Save us, O God our Savior; gather us and deliver us from the nations, that we may give thanks to your holy name, that we may glory in your praise.”Is David calling God his Savior in this verse because God HAD ALREADY saved him from the nations? Or is he confident that his Savior WILL save him when needed?
Here is another:
Isaiah 19:20
When they cry out to the LORD because of their oppressors, he will send them a savior and defender, and he will rescue them.Is the one God will send already a savior from the moment he is sent? Or should it read, “he will send them someone who will later become their savior after he saves them”?
And David, I see where you're STILL trying to use the “looking back in time from the future” argument. I've addressed this two different ways already:
1. The angel who said Jesus IS the Christ was speaking in real time – not looking back in time from the future. Nor can you logically claim that Luke misquoted the exact, present tense words of the angel because he was writing it down at a later time.
2. Acts 2:36
“Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ.”The wording of this scripture implies that the one who WAS ALREADY crucified was MADE Lord and Christ. It sounds as if this Jesus, whom they HAD ALREADY crucified, was subsequently made Lord and Christ by God.
And the only point I make with this scripture is that you guys are leaning awfully hard on one single scripture that says Jesus was anointed with Holy Spirit at his baptism.
Are we to think that Jesus had NO Holy Spirit before that time? If so, what/who led him to John in the first place? How did he know to tell John that he must be baptized by him in order fulfill all righteousness? Why would the one sent to make the way clear for the Lord be filled with Holy Spirit from the womb, but not the Lord himself, who was actually fathered via Holy Spirit?
Personally, I think “anointed with Holy Spirit” is a poetic way of saying God filled Jesus with Holy Spirit without limit at his baptism, and nothing more. After all, the Holy Spirit descended upon Jesus as a DOVE – not as anointing oil.
David, we apparently disagree on this subject. I'm quite sure you will not change my mind, for to do so would require me to ignore the direct, present tense quote of an angel sent from God, and the story of Simeon that confirms what the angel clearly said.
You have now compared my arguments with a certain nonsense that Ed sometimes displays, and with the total nonsense that jammin usually displays. I consider that to be hitting below the belt, considering that all I'm doing is believing the exact words of scripture without the extra explanations you guys must ADD TO those scriptures to make things work out your way.
I have done nothing but tell the truth of the scriptures as they are written, and deserve better from you than the insults you've slung.
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