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Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 22 2012,05:30) Hi Ed,
Yes those who have received the Spirit of God ARE the children of God.Was Jesus different in this way or did his truly relevant SONSHIP not begin at the Jordan?
Hi Nick,Who was Jesus' father?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgHi ED,
As man? God.
As the Christ by sharing of God's Spirit.
We can follow the second option and become adopted sonsQuote (t8 @ Mar. 20 2012,14:59) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Mar. 20 2012,16:43) Mike, Yes, you are the “fool” through and through!
Frank you do yourself and your doctrine no favours by behaving this way.We believe you teach error and show a disregard for scripture. You support our view by doing the very thing that Paul teaches not to do.
Matthew 5:22
……..And anyone who says, ‘You fool!’ will be in danger of the fire of hell.We have 2 witnesses as to your teaching being error. First witness is the myriad of scriptures that teach opposite to your view about Jesus and the second witness is you do that which scripture says not to.
In your effort to go against us, you are actually helping us.
t8,It was Mike who said I was silly and I simply return to him and call him a fool and you disapprove of my word when both words basically mean the same?
Note that Shaul [Paul] called the Galatians foolish. Do you believe that he is in danger of YOUR “fire of hell” also?
http://bible.cc/galatians/3-1.htm
You will also note in accordance with the context that this is a warning of calling a BROTHER a fool:
But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to his brother, 'Raca,' is answerable to the Sanhedrin. But anyone who says, 'You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell.
Mike certainly is no brother of mine and you yourself are just as much a fool as he!
Hi Nick,
Agreed “HolySpirit” was Jesus' father at conception.
Your point brings us back the term “only begotten son”.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgTHE MAN, YAHSHUA
Revised 3/12/12Before his death, Yahshua was referred to as “man,” or “the son of man,” approximately 65 times as recorded in Scripture. He referred to himself as “the son of man.”
Yahshua is also recorded on one occasion in translation of the so-called “New Testament” as referring to himself as “me, a man” (Yahchanan [John] 8:40). Scripture twice declares that FATHER Yahweh is not “a man” (Numbers 23:19; 1 Samuyl 15:29). Not once is it ever recorded in ANY translation of the so-called “New Testament” as Yahshua the SON OF FATHER Yahweh giving reference to himself as “God” or “a god”.
After his resurrection, even after he ascended into heaven, he was referred to as “man,” or “son of man,” more than 30 times. Total equals more than 95 times.
Before His Resurrection
A man among menMatthew
8:20; 9:6; 10:23; 11:19; 12:8,32,40; 13:37,41; 16:13,27,28; 17:9,12,22; 18:11; 20:18,28; 25:13; 26:2,24,24,45Mark
2:10,28; 8;31; 9:9,12,31; 10:33,45; 13:34; 14: 21,21,41Luke
6:5,22; 7:34; 9:22,44,56,58; 11:30; 12:8,10; 17:22; 18:8,31; 19:10; 22:22,48; 24:7John
1:51; 3:13,14; 5:27, 6:7,53,62; 8:28; 12:23,34,34; 13:31Acts
2:22After His Resurrection
And at his second comingDan. 7:13 – A man from heaven
Mt. 19:28 – A man from heaven
Mt. 24:7 – A man from heaven
Mt. 24:30 – A man from heaven
Mt. 24:37 – A man from heaven
Mt. 24:39 – A man from heaven
Mt. 24:44 – A man from heaven
Mt. 25:13 – A man from heaven
Mt. 25:31 – A man from heaven
Mt. 26:64 – A man in heaven
Mk. 8:38 – A man from heaven
Mk. 13:26 – A man from heaven
Mk. 14:62 – A man in heaven
Lk. 9:26 – A man from heaven
Lk. 12:40 – A man from heaven
Lk. 17:24 – A man from heaven
Lk. 17:26 – A man from heaven
Lk. 17:30 – A man from heaven
Lk. 21:27 – A man from heaven
Lk. 21:36 – A man from heaven
Lk. 22:69 – A man in heaven
Jn. 1:51 – A man in heaven
Jn. 3:14 – A man in heaven
Acts 7:56 – A man in heaven
Acts 17:31 – A man in heaven
Rom. 5:15 –
1 Cor. 15:21 –
1 Cor. 15:47 – A man from heaven
1 Tim. 2:5 – A man, Yahshua Messiah
Rev. 1:13 – A man in heaven
Rev. 14:14 – A man in heavenQuote (Ed J @ Mar. 20 2012,14:38) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Mar. 20 2012,13:41) Mike, I am beginning to believe that you simply argue for the sake of arguing!
Hi Frank,Mike tries to make Scripture argue with Scripture; Nick has pointed this out.
Your brother
in Christ, Jesus.
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
holycitybiblecode.org
Ed J,Yes, I agree! Mike also believes one Scripture negates what another says. This is a common argumentative ploy among many so-called “Christians”.
Yes ED,
As you have agreed he is not the ONLY begotten son.
We too are begotten as sons by the Word.[1peter 1.3]Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 22 2012,06:44) Yes ED,
As you have agreed he is not the ONLY begotten son.
Hi Nick, FALSE!Jesus “IS” God's “only begotten son”.
Isaac “IS” Abraham's “only begotten son”.Adam is a “Son of God”
Ismael is a “Son of Abraham”
Maybe you should start a thread?Your brother
in Christ, Jesus.
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 22 2012,06:44) Yes ED,
We too are begotten as sons by the Word.[1peter 1.3]
Hi Nick, FALSE!We are adopted Sons of God.
Romans 8:15-17 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear;
but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children
of God: And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ;
if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.Your brother
in Christ, Jesus.
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
holycitybiblecode.orgVARIOUS THOUGHTS AND SCRIPTURES
9/30/87The Logos
Most people take a superstitious view of “the word” in John 1. “Logos” simply means the “spoken word.” “The word” in this case is the “spoken word” of Yahweh, or that of the angel which represented him. Yahweh sent his angel,Gabriel, and announced by “words” that Mary would bare a son. In this way, “the word” was “made manifest” to mankind. The Son was made “flesh,” really and truly. At a later time this same Apostle John wrote that any one who denies that Yahshua was truly flesh (as all men are) is anti-messiah (1 Jn. 4:2,3; 2 Jn.7). The common view is, “Jesus was fully God and fully man.” This is nonsense. He had to be one or the other. There is no way he could be both. The very meaning of divinity, or deity, is the possession of everlasting life – the impossibility of death. This is also the meaning of Yahweh's Name – the everliving One. The very fact that Yahshua died shows that he was, indeed, man in every sense of the word (Heb. 2:14-18). Also, in the beginning “the word” (the voice of Yahweh) spoke everything into existence (Jn. 1, Gen. 1).
Yahshua is called”The Word of God” (Jn. 1, Rev. 19:13) because (1) the voice of Yahweh spoke him into existence, and (2) he spoke not his own words but the words of the Father. (Jn. 5:19, 7:16, 14:24). He represented the Father.
Yahshua “came from the Father,” and not because of his own desire, but that of the Father. This was true of all the prophets, it seems. None of them wanted to be prophets. All were drafted. All were sent, called, or came forth from the Father. Jeremiah was called, before his birth (Jer. 1:5); and Samson (Jud. 13:5, 16:17); and Israel (Isa. 49:1,5); and Yahshua (Lk. 2:21); and Paul (Gal. 1:5) RSV).
Yahshua Saw Satan Fall
Lk. 10:18 & Ezek.28
Luke 10:18 is evidently a prophetic statement referring to the time when Satan will be cast out of heaven (Rev. 12:7).This is at the end time, yet in the future from today; not in the past. Please notice that Satan is not once mentioned in Ezek. 28. Instead the prophet speaks of the king of Tyre. Also, Lucifer is mentioned only once in all the Bible (Isa. 14:12). According to George Lamsa, this is due to a mistake in copying the western manuscripts. He says the eastern manuscripts make no mention of Lucifer, and that Isa. 14:12 speaks of the king of Babylon. The context indicates this to be true. That Luke 10:18 was a prophetic statement, not past history, is indicated by the following Scriptures:
Jn. 12:31,32 – Stated at a later time than Luke 10:18.
Eph. 2:2 – Satan is still today the “prince of the power of the air,” so has not been restricted, even today, from entering heaven.
Jn. 14:30 & 16:10may give more insight.
Rev. 20:1 – Not only cast out of heaven, but chained, shut up and sealed in a pit.
I Am – Jn. 18:5-8
Yahshua existed in the plan and purpose of Yahweh, before Abraham's time – before the world was made.The “I Am” as spoken in Ex. 3:14 is not a name, but is the etymology of the name, Yahweh. In Jn. 18:5-8 the Messiah was simply answering the question put to him by the temple guards, just as you or I would answer. They asked for Yahshua of Nazareth. His answer was equal to “I am that party.” We should never make a mystery of Scriptures when a simply answer will suffice.
Elohim – A Plural Word?
The word Elohim when applied to Yahweh is used as a singular. Please note that in every place(hundreds of places) Elohim always has the singular pronoun with it, showing only one;”I,” “me,” “he,” etc. The only exceptions to this is Gen. 1:26, 3:22, 11:7, and Isa. 6:8.* When applied to Yahweh, the plural”Elohim” does not mean more than one. On the contrary, this refers to the multiple attributes and majesty of the Creator. That there is only one Deity is the most basic doctrine in the Bible. This is stated many times, directly and indirectly.
* Please ask for our papers about these Scriptures.
Yahshua Was Sent
Yahshua was indeed”sent” into the world to save sinners. What does this mean? All the true prophets and Apostles were “sent.” On the night before his death, Yahshua himself gave us a better understanding of the meaning of “sent” when he prayed to the Father; “As thou didst send me into the world, so I have sent them [the Apostles] into the world” (Jn. 17:18). If “sent” means Yahshua had a pre-existence, then it also means the 11 Apostles had a pre-existence.
When the Apostle John wrote of “Yahshua, who is in the bosom of the Father,” he referred to the time which was them present (40 C.E.), not to the book of Genesis (Gen.1:26). At the time John wrote, Yahshua was at that time in the bosom of the Father (a close relationship). He was then, and still is today, at the Father's right hand.
None Have Seen the Father?
Jn. 5:37 applies only to the Jewish people to whom Yahshua spoke at that moment. The people who were present that day had never seen the Father's shape, nor heard his voice. A number of others have seen the form(shape or silhouette) of the Father, but not the features of his face. A few of these were Moses (Ex. 33:18-23; Nu.12:6-8); seventy Elders of Israel (Ex. 24:10); Ezekiel, in visions (Ezek. Ch.1); etc. Millions (perhaps as many as 2 to 5 million) in Israel heard the voice of Yahweh when he spoke from the mountain top. They asked Moses to go near and hear Yahweh,as they did not wish to hear him more, lest they should die (Ex. 20:18; Deut. 5:22-28).
The Son Created All Things?
Eph. 3:9 – “…Yahweh, who created all things [by Yahshua Messiah].” The words in bracket were added long ago, evidently before the King's men did their first translation. Please consult other versions of the Scriptures, Interlinears, etc. Nearly all leave out these added words.
Who is the Savior?
Scriptures tell us that Yahweh is our Savior, our Redeemer (Isa. 43:3,14; 44:6; 47:4; 49:26; 1Tim. 2:3; Jude 24,25; etc.). He was in olden times their Savior because(1) he saved them from the Egyptians,and more especially, then as well as now, (2) he is the only source of immortality combined with the ability to transmit immortality to others (1 Tim. 1:17; 6:16). Ancient Scriptures tell us that at that time,Yahweh was man's only Savior; showing, perhaps, that Yahshua did not at that time exist. Later, Yahshua was born, grew up,died, and became our Savior.
Yahweh the Father is our Savior, and he does this saving through, and by means of, Yahshua the Messiah. It is obvious that there are two separate persons. If not, to whom did the Messiah pray when he walked with the Apostles? Yahshua and the Father were,and still are, one in the same sense that the Apostles were one (Jn.17:11, 21). Yahshua prayed that the disciple would believe in the only true Elohim, the one who sent Yahshua (Jn. 17:3). Did Yahshua send himself? No. Yahweh, the Father, the only true Deity sent him.
Yahshua, an Elohim
The words el and elohim are not exacting words, but were used with a wide range of meaning and in different ways (cf. Gen. 30:8; Ps. 68:16; Zech. 12:8; 1 Sam.28:13; Isa. 8:19). For example, many times the O.T. el is translated “against.” Most of the time it is used to indicate the heavenly Father. Eland elohim are used to indicate the gods and goddesses (idols) of the nations, the judges of Israel, and even angels. This indicates that el and elohim were titles of honor.For this reason, no doubt, Thomas when he first saw the risen Messiah, called him “Elohim.” Certainly we are not to understand that Thomas implied that Yahshua was the Supreme Deity, Yahweh.
Titus 2:13 – Two persons are spoken of here; Yahweh the great Elohim who will one day dwell with us (Rev. 21:3); and his Son, our Savior Yahshua Messiah who is to return and will also dwell with his people (Emmanuel= El with us).
As generally used when referring to Yahweh, the meaning of the word el and elohim is”Mighty One.” Apparently, el and elohim have a wider range of usage than does our English word, God, as can be seen by Jn. 10:34,35 in the King James Version where men are called gods because to them the word of Yahweh came. This is surely because of our spiritual bond with our Creator – thus a position of honor. Also, since Yahshua is now declared to be the Son of Yahweh by his resurrection from the dead (and for this reason has everlasting life), he is in a sense a El, a “mighty one.” Even so, Scriptures tell us there is only one TRUE El, Yahweh the Father (Isa. 44:6; Rom. 16:27; Jude 25).
Heb. 1:8 – An alternate reading for this Scripture is found in a footnote in the RSV,”G-d is thy throne for ever and ever.” Moffatt reads the same in this text. This is a quotation from the psalms. Your divine throne endures for ever and ever, …” (Ps. 45:6RSV). “Your throne shall stand forever more …” (Ps. 45:6 Moffatt).
Heb. 1:10 – In the Wymouth version. I can not accept this reading. Mr. Wymouth added several words in his version: words which do not appear in the Greek Text, namely, It is also of His Son that G-d says, …” he only word which appears in the Greek is”And.” Please check any number of versions. In adding these words, we see an effort to confirm the doctrine of the Trinity, I fear. When we really notice the message given in these verses, it is this:
Heb. 1:9 – “Thou[the Son] hast loved righteousness and hated lawlessness; therefore Elohim, thy Elohim (Yahshua's elohim, Yahweh] has anointed thee [the Son] with the oil of gladness beyond thy comrades.” Please notice that verse 9a speaks of the Son, but verse 9b speaks of the Father and continues to speak of the Father through verse 10, 11, and 12.
Heb. 1:10 – “And,thou, Yahweh [the Father], didst found the earth in the beginning,…”Please read this quotation in Ps. 102:25,26, notice all through Ps. 102 this prayer (verse 1) is addressed to Yahweh, the only true El.
Did Yahshua Appear to Joshua?
Josh. 5:13-15 does not once mention Yahshua, the Son of Yahweh. Only two persons are mentioned here: Joshua and the man who spoke with him, the commander of Yahweh's army (referring, evidently, to the Israelite army). Yahshua is not mentioned at all, nor is he alluded to. To say otherwise is adding words to the meaning and message of Scriptures. This is forbidden (Deut. 4:2; 12:32; Prov. 30:6; Ecc. 3:14; Rev. 22:18).
Sincerely,
Voy
Hi ED,
False means not agreeing with you?So there is more than one ONLY BEGOTTEN SON in scripture.
Is our rebirth as adopted sons sharing the Spirit with God and His Christ totally different to his sonship?
Hi ED,
No doubt that scripture records that ” for this reason he shall be called the son of God”But does that relationship of conception in flesh compare to his being the MONOGENES Son?
Sonship by sharing in the Spirit seems more important.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 22 2012,07:33) Hi ED,
False means not agreeing with you?So there is more than one ONLY BEGOTTEN SON in scripture.
Is our rebirth as adopted sons sharing the Spirit with God and His Christ totally different to his sonship?
Hi Nick,Meaning what you said was 'false'.
Jesus “IS” God's “only begotten son”.
Isaac “IS” Abraham's “only begotten son”.Isaac was born “the only begotten”.
Perhaps you need to start a thread
for a more permanent record of this.This is another question worded 'fuzzy'.
Jesus was born the “Son of God”.
He became the only begotten
at his baptism at Jordan.Your brother
in Christ, Jesus.
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 22 2012,06:44) Yes ED,
As you have agreed he is not the ONLY begotten son.
We too are begotten as sons by the Word.[1peter 1.3]
Hi ED,
Not false then as the fathers were not specified?Monogenes does not say anyone is the ONLY onlybegotten son
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 22 2012,09:05) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 22 2012,06:44) Yes ED,
As you have agreed he is not the ONLY begotten son.
We too are begotten as sons by the Word.[1peter 1.3]
Hi ED,
Not false then as the fathers were not specified?Monogenes does not say anyone is the ONLY onlybegotten son
Hi Nick,Psalm 12:6-7 The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them (in the AKJV Bible) from this generation for ever.
Isaiah 28:11 For with stammering lips and another tongue(that is English) will he speak to this people.1Cor.14:27 (AKJV) If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two(Hebrew, Aramaic),
or at the most by three(Greek), and that by course; [and let one (“AKJV Bible”) translate].“The Bible” we have today was no accident, it is exactly the way YHVH wanted it!
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Mar. 22 2012,09:21) It was Mike who said I was silly and I simply return to him and call him a fool and you disapprove of my word when both words basically mean the same?
Frank.There is a difference between being foolish and being a fool just as there is a difference between prophesying and being a prophet. Even the wisest among us can do foolish things.
Would it be correct to say that if you run, you are runner, if you fish you are a fisherman, or if you sin you are a sinner. We know that sinners do not inherit the Kingdom and we know that the righteous can sin.
Usually a runner is someone who practices running and a fool is someone who practices foolish things, not a person who does a foolish thing, which we all do from time to time.
It is a difference in judging the person rather than an individual action. An individual action does not define a person, but calling someone a fool does.
You can call an act foolish, but you should not call a person a fool. It is foolish to call someone a fool.
Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 21 2012,12:12) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 21 2012,13:11) Quote (david @ Mar. 19 2012,22:38) Simeon had seen the Lord's anointed one. He just happened to see him before he was anointed. 
Again, Simeon wasn't looking back from some future time AFTER Jesus became the Christ at the Jordan, and saying he saw God's Christ when Jesus was only 8 days old. Simeon spoke in real time, and thanked (past tense) God for letting him see (past tense) His Christ when that Christ was only 8 days old.
He told God that he could now die in peace because he HAD (past tense) seen His Christ and salvation.
Hi Mike, let me see if I can get this straight:Simeon said Jesus was his savior though he had not been saved yet,
BUT Jesus was “Christ” then because that is when Simeon said he
was both his savior and the Christ; did I get it right now, Mike?God bless
Ed J
Ed,The word “savior” is different than the word “christ”. Christ means “anointed one”, as I'm sure you know. Notice the tense of the word “anoint”. It is past tense, right?
Now, look up “savior” in a dictionary, and chances are you'll read “one who saves”. Notice the tense in “save”. It is not a past tense word, is it?
The word “savior” comes from a Latin word meaning “to save”. It does not come from a word meaning “has saved”.
So compare “one who HAS BEEN ANOINTED” with “one who DOES SAVE”.
Here is a scripture that might help:
1 Chronicles 16:35
Cry out, “Save us, O God our Savior; gather us and deliver us from the nations, that we may give thanks to your holy name, that we may glory in your praise.”How is it that David calls God “our Savior” while asking for God TO save them from the nations?
Ed, we don't just call God our savior AFTER He saved us from some particular problem. We also call Him our Savior because He WILL save us when needed. He is our Rock and our Refuge because He WILL save us when we need saving.
So, a “savior” is someone who HAS, DOES, OR WILL save others, while a christ is someone who HAS BEEN anointed.
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