Preexistence

[Ed J]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 18 2012,07:42)

Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Mar. 17 2012,14:36) Nick, Yahshua Messiah is never once recorded as proclaiming that he had created ANYTHING! Nor did he create anything.  All things were created by God THROUGH Jesus.

Hi Mike,

THROUGH Jesus' crucifixion YHVH created the world and all that is in it.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Ed J]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 18 2012,07:45)

Hi MB, God does all his creating through His Spirit.

Hi Nick,

People don't study, Nick.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[942767]

Quote (t8 @ Mar. 13 2012,09:22)

Quote (942767 @ Mar. 12 2012,16:03) You say that Jesus was returning to his former glory.  Was he then already exalted to his position as head of the church prior to becoming a man and completing his ministry here on earth? Love in Christ, Marty Is it not easy to understand that returning to one's former glory does not negate other or new positions and authority. I would say that even prior to him coming here, while he was in that glory that he had with the Father,  that it was not a static glory.

Hi T8:

Nice try, but no, you said he was returning to his “former glory”.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[NickHassan]

Hi Ed,
You speak of the NEW CREATION?

[Ed J]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 18 2012,11:18)

Wrong.  The Word wasn't made flesh until Jesus was born of Mary.  Yet somehow, Paul says it was JESUS who was existing in the form of God before he was MADE INTO a human being. How did “JESUS” get into Paul's statement if “JESUS” wasn't really a part of the events described?   Let the scriptures teach you, Nick.

Hi Mike,

NOPE, “The Word” was made flesh at Jordan!

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Ed J]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 18 2012,11:57)

Hi Ed, You speak of the NEW CREATION?

Hi Nick,

New and old.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[942767]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 13 2012,10:23)

Quote (942767 @ Mar. 11 2012,20:03) 1.  You say that Jesus was returning to his former glory.   2.  Was he then already exalted to his position as head of the church prior to becoming a man and completing his ministry here on earth? 1.  Yes, that's what the words “the glory I had” indicate. 2.  No, because the church of Christ didn't yet exist. Marty, remember that Jesus asked to be returned to his former glory, but that's not what happened.  God exalted him even higher than he was before, for he BECAME as superior to the angels as the name he INHERITED was superior to theirs. His former glory also did not include being the sacrificial Lamb of God, because that hadn't yet happened before the world began.  I'm sure there are many more differences between his past and present glory – I just can't think right now.

Hi Mike:

And so, what was the former glory that he had, Mike?

As you say, the church did not exist until he finished his work on earth, and he was not exalted to this position of glory as head of the church until his finished his ministry on earth. And so, he was not returning to a former glory by being exalted to his position as “head of the church”.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 17 2012,18:41)

Hi MB, After the anointing the WORD is the subject. The vessel has become one with the Spirit. Now any reference to history includes Jesus.

Show me from scripture, Nick. Show me that any past referrence to Jesus is talking about the spirit that would someday merge with Jesus.

Explain it in light of scriptures where the living and breathing person Jesus said HE had glory with God before the world began. Or how Jesus said HE came down from heaven.

I understand that you WANT to pretend that this was the spirit inside of Jesus saying these things, but t8 and I have already shown you two reasons that can't be.

1. God doesn't have two opposing wills.

2. God doesn't have a Father who was his second witness.

You can't “riddle” your way out of these points, Nick – so stop trying.

[NickHassan]

Hi Ed,
Yes the new unity between man and Spirit makes any statement about the Spirit relevant to Jesus Christ.

The other unique aspect was the ability of the Spirit to be shared with others thus propagating the Word.

The earnest of the Spirit given to Elijah had been passed on to Elisha but otherwise this never happened.

[Ed J]

Hi Nick,

Excellent points,

And Mike,

I enjoy the riddles! …because I understand them. …they are Jesus' parables. (see Psalm 78:2)

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[mikeboll64]

Quote (942767 @ Mar. 17 2012,19:06)

As you say, the church did not exist until he finished his work on earth, and he was not exalted to this position of glory as head of the church until his finished his ministry on earth. And so, he was not returning to a former glory by being exalted to his position as “head of the church”.

Quote

Hi Mike: And so, what was the former glory that he had, Mike?

I don't know, Marty. I wasn't there. But to have ANY KIND OF glory alongside God before the world began, he must have BEEN alongside God before the world began.

Quote

As you say, the church did not exist until he finished his work on earth, and he was not exalted to this position of glory as head of the church until his finished his ministry on earth. And so, he was not returning to a former glory by being exalted to his position as “head of the church”.

I agree with that. In fact, I've already stated that his former glory is what he ASKED to be returned to. But that is not what happened. God exalted him to an even higher glory than when he left to be made into the likeness of a human being.

One of the additions of glory would be the glory of now being the head of the church – a glory he didn't yet have before he performed his ministry on earth.

Nor had God apparently given him all authority in heaven and earth before the flesh, because this seems from the wording to be a new development after he was raised.

Another difference is death. Before his ministry on earth, death had mastery over him. Once raised from the grips of death, death no longer has mastery over him. So “mastery over death” would be another addition to the former glory.

If we sat down and really thought about it, I'm sure we could come up with many more additions to his former glory – now that he has been raised even more superior than when he left.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 17 2012,19:39)

Mike, I enjoy the riddles!

I would prefer to read some actual scriptures that support Nick's many claims.

[terraricca]

Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 18 2012,19:39)

Hi Nick, Excellent points, And Mike, I enjoy the riddles!   …because I understand them.   …they are Jesus' parables. (see Psalm 78:2) God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

edj

[Ed J]

PIERRE,

Correction, I forgot to put in a critical word, it should have said…

they are LIKE Jesus' parables. (see Psalm 78:2)

Sorry,
Ed J

[942767]

Hi Mike:

You say:

Quote

I don't know, Marty. I wasn't there. But to have ANY KIND OF glory alongside God before the world began, he must have BEEN alongside God before the world began

You do not know because God does not tell you that he had a former glory. Jesus did not pre-exist his birth as a sentient person.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[mikeboll64]

Quote (942767 @ Mar. 17 2012,20:50)

Hi Mike: You say: Quote I don't know, Marty.  I wasn't there.  But to have ANY KIND OF glory alongside God before the world began, he must have BEEN alongside God before the world began You do not know because God does not tell you that he had a former glory.   Jesus did not pre-exist his birth as a sentient person. Love in Christ, Marty

You are right that God didn't say it. Jesus did. Do you not believe the one God made Lord and King over us?

[terraricca]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 18 2012,20:52)

Quote (942767 @ Mar. 17 2012,20:50) Hi Mike: You say: Quote I don't know, Marty.  I wasn't there.  But to have ANY KIND OF glory alongside God before the world began, he must have BEEN alongside God before the world began You do not know because God does not tell you that he had a former glory.   Jesus did not pre-exist his birth as a sentient person. Love in Christ, Marty You are right that God didn't say it.  Jesus did.  Do you not believe the one God made Lord and King over us?

Mike

yes true God did not say;but Christ did ,and that is were the faith in him begins just like the ones who have known him have said ;Jn 1:12 Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God—

1Jn 1:5 This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all.
1Jn 1:6 If we claim to have fellowship with him yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live by the truth.
1Jn 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin.
1Jn 1:8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.
1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.

1Jn 2:20 But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and all of you know the truth.
1Jn 2:21 I do not write to you because you do not know the truth, but because you do know it and because no lie comes from the truth.
1Jn 2:22 Who is the liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ.

Jn 1:14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

[Ed J]

Hi Pierre,

I see you're still posting a bunch of Scripture WITHOUT TELLING US WHY; right?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[942767]

Quote (942767 @ Mar. 18 2012,13:50)

Hi Mike: You say: Quote I don't know, Marty.  I wasn't there.  But to have ANY KIND OF glory alongside God before the world began, he must have BEEN alongside God before the world began You do not know because God does not tell you that he had a former glory.   Jesus did not pre-exist his birth as a sentient person. Love in Christ, Marty

What Jesus said was as follows:

Quote

Jhn 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

And he was speaking of the glory that God was about to give him by exalting to his current position as head of the church as the judge of the living and the dead. He said “Now” glorify me, not “now glorify me again”…with the glory that I had with thee before the world was”. This was foreordained.

Love in Christ,
Marty

Love in Christ,
Marty

[terraricca]

Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 18 2012,21:19)

Hi Pierre, I see you're still posting a bunch of Scripture WITHOUT TELLING US WHY; right? God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

edj

are you never going to make an effort to read what is at stake in the quotes??

I have answer Mike , and then prove my point with the appropriate scriptures to back it up .

thing what Mike and others have ask of you ,and you hardly do ,

and as you can see i do not twist the meaning of scriptures just quoting them and they speak for themselves

[Author]

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