Preexistence

[NickHassan]

Hi t8,
Exactly.
He was flesh till the Jordan.
Now the ANOINTING is all that we should focus on

[NickHassan]

Hi T8,
Jesus was utterly made one with the Word at the Jordan.
The Word was with God and was God.

We too can fellowship with the Father and the Son[2jn9, 1jn1]

Father and Word in the one Spirit.

[Proclaimer]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 11 2012,22:13)

Hi t8, Exactly. He was flesh till the Jordan. Now the ANOINTING is all that we should focus on

Nick we are not even the flesh. Rather we are in flesh or by nature, flesh. We are inside earthen vessels we call flesh. There is a difference between identity and nature. Nature is not identity and thus WE or I am an identity who is in or possess a nature. Furthermore I can also partake in divine nature. I am not nature.

There is a war between the flesh and the spirit and WE choose which urges or promptings we will follow. This makes it clear that we are something else if WE can choose the urges of either.

[NickHassan]

Hi T8,
We do no longer know Jesus according to flesh[2cor5]
Now the Lord is the Spirit.[2cor 3.17]

So why do men highlight the flesh and even say the man Jesus pre existed?

[Ed J]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 11 2012,19:16)

Hi T8, Jesus was utterly made one with the Word at the Jordan. The Word was with God and was God. We too can fellowship with the Father and the Son[2jn9, 1jn1] Father and Word in the one Spirit.

Hi Nick,

That was when “The Word” was made flesh, at the Jordan river, when Jesus was baptized with the “HolySpirit”.

1 John 1:1-3 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes,
which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life; (For the life was manifested,
and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father,
and was manifested unto us;) That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also
may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Ed J]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 11 2012,19:42)

Hi T8, We do no longer know Jesus according to flesh[2cor5] Now the Lord is the Spirit.[2cor 3.17] So why do men highlight the flesh and even say the man Jesus pre existed?

Hi Nick, for the same reason they proclaim a FALSE flesh return, it is all flesh worship and corrupt.

Isaiah 5:18-22 Woe unto them that draw iniquity with cords of vanity, and sin as it were with a cart rope:
That say, Let him make speed, and hasten his work, that we may see it: and let the counsel of the Holy One
of Israel draw nigh and come, that we may know it! Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put
darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter! Woe unto them that are
wise in their own eyes, and prudent in their own sight! Woe unto them that are mighty to drink wine, and men of
strength to mingle strong drink: They are all drunk on the fornication of the great whore of Babylon. (Revelation 17:2)

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Proclaimer]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 11 2012,22:42)

Hi T8, We do no longer know Jesus according to flesh[2cor5] Now the Lord is the Spirit.[2cor 3.17] So why do men highlight the flesh and even say the man Jesus pre existed?

I agree and who is saying that Jesus was a flesh being before he came in the flesh?

He, Jesus existed in the form of God.
Emptied himself.
Came in the flesh.
Died for our sins.
Rose from the dead.
Seated at the right hand of the Majesty on high, in the glory that he had with him before the world began.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (942767 @ Mar. 10 2012,20:00)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 11 2012,13:57) Quote (942767 @ Mar. 10 2012,19:22) But this position of glory at the right hand of the Father was forseen from the beginning, and therefore, in this sense he had this glory with the Father in the beginning.  The scripture does not state that he is returning to a former glory. Marty, The words “the glory I HAD” are a good indicator that Jesus was talking about returning to a former glory.  In fact, those words can't sensibly indicate anything else. Hi Mike: Did you read John 17:24?

John 17:24  
Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.
Hi Marty,

Here's an imaginary sample:

Marty, I'm going to the Bahamas pretty soon.  My hope is that you will be with me where I am and see how beautiful it is.

There is nothing wrong or prophetic about the above sentence.  It is obvious from context that “where I am” refers to where I am ONCE I GET THERE.

Now compare:

Marty, I'm going to the Bahamas pretty soon, and I hope to have the same living quarters I had last year when I went.

This is comparing apples to oranges, Marty.  There is nothing about the “where I am” of the first sample that would twist the space/time continuum and common sense, making the “living quarters I had” mean something other than the living quarters I had.

I guess I don't understand how you're expecting John 17:24 to change the meaning of “the glory I had” in 17:5.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 10 2012,20:01)

Hi MB, Your desperate grasp on being SENSIBLE stops you from hearing what is spiritual.

Yes Nick,

My doctrine DOES make sense.  In my doctrine, there is THE will of God.  In yours, there are the TWO opposing wills of God.

In mine, Jesus is one witness, and his Father is the other one.  In yours, God is one witness, and HIS Father is the other one.

But I'm glad you acknowledge which one of our doctrines actually makes sense, Nick – because knowing is half the battle.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 10 2012,20:06)

Hi 94, Again it speaks of the future as a plan. God speaks of the past as far as the Word being with Him IN THE BEGINNING

That is a good point, Nick.

Just because God can and has spoken of future things is no reason to twist the scriptures where He speaks of things that truly were in the past.

“The glory I had” speaks of a glory Jesus had – plain and simple.  To add your own doctrines in – whether that be the claim that it was God speaking through Jesus, or whether that be the claim that Jesus spoke of a glory he had as a thought in God's head – is just wrong.

[NickHassan]

Quote (t8 @ Mar. 11 2012,21:38)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 11 2012,22:42) Hi T8, We do no longer know Jesus according to flesh[2cor5] Now the Lord is the Spirit.[2cor 3.17] So why do men highlight the flesh and even say the man Jesus pre existed? I agree and who is saying that Jesus was a flesh being before he came in the flesh? He, Jesus existed in the form of God. Emptied himself. Came in the flesh. Died for our sins. Rose from the dead. Seated at the right hand of the Majesty on high, in the glory that he had with him before the world began.

hi t8,
Please read phil 2 again.
It does not say Jesus but CHRIST Jesus.
The work is of the Spirit of Christ coming as SERVANT

[NickHassan]

Hi,
Just because The Word is Jesus Christ in Rev 19 is not a justification for saying Jesus is the Word in Jn 1.
He was anointed to become the Christ at the age of 30 at the Jordan.
Humans are only vessels at best.[2 tim 2.20f]

If God choose to give glory to those vessels it is not because we deserve anything

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 11 2012,16:08)

Hi, Just because The Word is Jesus Christ in Rev 19 is not a justification for saying Jesus is the Word in Jn 1.

And what is your justification for saying it is not Jesus? There are many scriptures that explain our position, and none that I know of that explain yours.

[terraricca]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 12 2012,16:08)

Hi, Just because The Word is Jesus Christ  in Rev 19 is not a justification for saying Jesus is the Word in Jn 1. He was anointed to become the Christ at the age of 30 at the Jordan. Humans are only vessels at best.[2 tim 2.20f] If God choose to give glory to those vessels it is not because we deserve anything

N

Jn 1:14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
Jn 1:15 John testifies concerning him. He cries out, saying, “This was he of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.’ ”

look what John says in verse 14 THE WORD BECAME FLESH WHAT WAS HE BEFORE ???GOES ON ;MADE HIS DWELLING AMONG US ;WHERE WAS IS DWELLING BEFORE HE WAS AMONG US

LOOK WHAT JOHN THE BAPTIST SAYS ;HE SURPASSED ME BECAUSE HE BEFORE ME ;SO WHERE WAS HE IF HE WAS BEFORE JOHN WAS EVEN EXITING ?

THEY ARE BOTH TALKING ABOUT JESUS CHRIST WHO IS THE WORD OF GOD

[942767]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 11 2012,17:49)

Quote (942767 @ Mar. 11 2012,14:17) Hi Nick: The role of the Holy Spirit of God is to testify concerning His Only Begotten Son and His Christ: Quote Jhn 16:13   Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, [that] shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.   The seed of the woman?  Was this not forseen? Quote Gen 3:15   And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.   Love in Christ, Marty Hi 94, God knows the future. But that does not make the past into the future

Hi Nick:

I don't follow what you are saying. Of course, this had already materialized when John wrote the gospel, but John 1 is telling us that God had a plan for humnanity from the beginning.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[942767]

Hi Mike and T8:

The following veses are speaking about the Jesus glorifying the Father on earth, and the Father glorifying him by exalting him to His right hand as head of the church.

Quote

Jhn 17:1 ¶ These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: Jhn 17:2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. Jhn 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. Jhn 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do. Jhn 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

You say that Jesus was returning to his former glory. Was he then already exalted to his position as head of the church prior to becoming a man and completing his ministry here on earth?

Love in Christ,
Marty

[NickHassan]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 12 2012,11:57)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 11 2012,16:08) Hi, Just because The Word is Jesus Christ  in Rev 19 is not a justification for saying Jesus is the Word in Jn 1. And what is your justification for saying it is not Jesus?  There are many scriptures that explain our position, and none that I know of that explain yours.

Hi MB,
Jesus was conceived. He was born in Bethlehem.

The Word was before Jesus and John.

[NickHassan]

Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 12 2012,12:14)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 12 2012,16:08) Hi, Just because The Word is Jesus Christ  in Rev 19 is not a justification for saying Jesus is the Word in Jn 1. He was anointed to become the Christ at the age of 30 at the Jordan. Humans are only vessels at best.[2 tim 2.20f] If God choose to give glory to those vessels it is not because we deserve anything N Jn 1:14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth. Jn 1:15 John testifies concerning him. He cries out, saying, “This was he of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.’ ” look what John says in verse 14 THE WORD BECAME FLESH WHAT WAS HE BEFORE ???GOES ON ;MADE HIS DWELLING AMONG US ;WHERE WAS IS DWELLING BEFORE HE WAS AMONG US LOOK WHAT JOHN THE BAPTIST SAYS ;HE SURPASSED ME BECAUSE HE BEFORE ME ;SO WHERE WAS HE IF HE WAS BEFORE JOHN WAS EVEN EXITING ? THEY ARE BOTH TALKING ABOUT JESUS CHRIST  WHO IS THE WORD OF GOD

Hi T,
The Word was from heaven and came FROM the Father..

[NickHassan]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 12 2012,11:57)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 11 2012,16:08) Hi, Just because The Word is Jesus Christ  in Rev 19 is not a justification for saying Jesus is the Word in Jn 1. And what is your justification for saying it is not Jesus?  There are many scriptures that explain our position, and none that I know of that explain yours.

Hi MB,
Jesus was a flesh vessel just as we are.
We follow him into rebirth from above to become sons of God..

[terraricca]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 12 2012,21:58)

Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 12 2012,12:14) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 12 2012,16:08) Hi, Just because The Word is Jesus Christ  in Rev 19 is not a justification for saying Jesus is the Word in Jn 1. He was anointed to become the Christ at the age of 30 at the Jordan. Humans are only vessels at best.[2 tim 2.20f] If God choose to give glory to those vessels it is not because we deserve anything N Jn 1:14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth. Jn 1:15 John testifies concerning him. He cries out, saying, “This was he of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.’ ” look what John says in verse 14 THE WORD BECAME FLESH WHAT WAS HE BEFORE ???GOES ON ;MADE HIS DWELLING AMONG US ;WHERE WAS IS DWELLING BEFORE HE WAS AMONG US LOOK WHAT JOHN THE BAPTIST SAYS ;HE SURPASSED ME BECAUSE HE BEFORE ME ;SO WHERE WAS HE IF HE WAS BEFORE JOHN WAS EVEN EXITING ? THEY ARE BOTH TALKING ABOUT JESUS CHRIST  WHO IS THE WORD OF GOD Hi T, The Word was from heaven and came FROM the Father..

n

So THE WORD OF GOD in John 1:1-14 is the written words or the verbal words of God ??

[Author]

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