Preexistence

[Frank4YAHWEH]

Quote (t8 @ Feb. 28 2012,08:22)

Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Feb. 28 2012,09:36) To ALL, If you believe that Yahshua pre-existed his birth as an actual being, what type of being do you believe he pre-existed his birth as? He existed in the form of God. This is what we are told. Philippians 2:6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, This should be a good enough answer as your question is directly answered by scripture itself. If it is not good enough, then neither is scripture good enough for you, but you raise yourself above it.

t8,

It does not say “he pre-existed“. I believe when it says that “he existed” it is speaking of his existence here on earth and not that he pre-existed in the beginning with his and our Father Yahweh in the beginning as a “God”

[terraricca]

Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Feb. 28 2012,15:36)

Quote (t8 @ Feb. 28 2012,08:22) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Feb. 28 2012,09:36) To ALL, If you believe that Yahshua pre-existed his birth as an actual being, what type of being do you believe he pre-existed his birth as? He existed in the form of God. This is what we are told. Philippians 2:6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, This should be a good enough answer as your question is directly answered by scripture itself. If it is not good enough, then neither is scripture good enough for you, but you raise yourself above it. t8, It does not say “he pre-existed“. I believe when it says that “he existed” it is speaking of his existence here on earth and not that he pre-existed in the beginning with his and our Father Yahweh in the beginning as a “God”

F

it is so funny,you do not believe scriptures even if we show them to you,

so the Son was dead beside his father

[Frank4YAHWEH]

Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 28 2012,08:35)

Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Feb. 28 2012,15:29) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 28 2012,08:04) Hi Frank, How important is this? Nick, Well, it is important in that Mike and t8 has asserted this in their previous post in comparing what is said in Revelation and the so-called “Book of Yahchanan [John]” and like the critical scholars in the excerpt I had previously posted, I also have my doubt that the Apostle Yahchanan [John] authored the so-called “Book of Yahchanan [John]”. This being said, I would like ALL to consider a book that I had previously read online and found very revealing concerning this matter. The link to this book is as follows: CLICK HERE to download the book The Disciple Whom Jesus Loved by J. Phillips in PDF Format for FREE or to read it online or click on the following hyper linked text for FREE printable copies of this Bible study or to read it online: The Disciple Whom Jesus Loved Take another look – The Bible has the answer J. Phillips This book is a very easy read and understandable from a layman's perspective. F you do not read the bible why should read a book that you advertised and have no comment about it,so in three words what the book say

terraricca,

You are bearing false witness against me to what you are not even a witness to! I read and study Scripture daily as I am instructed to do in the Scripture.

[Proclaimer]

Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Feb. 28 2012,11:36)

t8, It does not say “he pre-existed”. I believe when it says that “he existed” it is speaking of his existence here on earth and not that he pre-existed in the beginning with his and our Father Yahweh in the beginning as a “God”

Frank, I am not saying that he preexisted, I don't need to. It is possible that I may have never said this word in my posts.

I am saying that he existed in the form of God, emptied himself, came in the flesh, died, rose from the dead, and is WITH God now in the glory he had with the Father before the world began.

I also believe Jesus when he said, “Before Abraham I am”.

So I believe all this and do not need to use the word pre-exist do I. The text speaks for itself and I hold the view of these texts.

I should also remind you that it doesn't actually say that he didn't pre-exist. Yet you say that he didn't pre-exist. So I stick to scripture and yet you are forced to say that which scripture actually doesn't say.

See how your quoted statement is more relevant to yourself than me?

He EXISTED in the form of God.
Jesus said, “BEFORE Abraham, I am”.

Amen.

[Frank4YAHWEH]

Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 28 2012,08:41)

Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Feb. 28 2012,15:36) Quote (t8 @ Feb. 28 2012,08:22) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Feb. 28 2012,09:36) To ALL, If you believe that Yahshua pre-existed his birth as an actual being, what type of being do you believe he pre-existed his birth as? He existed in the form of God. This is what we are told. Philippians 2:6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, This should be a good enough answer as your question is directly answered by scripture itself. If it is not good enough, then neither is scripture good enough for you, but you raise yourself above it. t8, It does not say “he pre-existed“. I believe when it says that “he existed” it is speaking of his existence here on earth and not that he pre-existed in the beginning with his and our Father Yahweh in the beginning as a “God” F         it is so funny,you do not believe scriptures even if we show them to you, so the Son was dead beside his father

terraricca,

Where did I ever say “The Son was dead beside his father.”

[terraricca]

Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Feb. 28 2012,15:44)

Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 28 2012,08:41) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Feb. 28 2012,15:36) Quote (t8 @ Feb. 28 2012,08:22) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Feb. 28 2012,09:36) To ALL, If you believe that Yahshua pre-existed his birth as an actual being, what type of being do you believe he pre-existed his birth as? He existed in the form of God. This is what we are told. Philippians 2:6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, This should be a good enough answer as your question is directly answered by scripture itself. If it is not good enough, then neither is scripture good enough for you, but you raise yourself above it. t8, It does not say “he pre-existed“. I believe when it says that “he existed” it is speaking of his existence here on earth and not that he pre-existed in the beginning with his and our Father Yahweh in the beginning as a “God” F         it is so funny,you do not believe scriptures even if we show them to you, so the Son was dead beside his father terraricca, Where did I ever say “The Son was dead beside his father.”

F

if you claim that he did not say he pre existed then you must think that he does not exist ,if i mistaken it is because you short on words

[Proclaimer]

Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Feb. 28 2012,11:36)

t8, It does not say “he pre-existed”. I believe when it says that “he existed” it is speaking of his existence here on earth and not that he pre-existed in the beginning with his and our Father Yahweh in the beginning as a “God”

Frank, before Jesus existed in the flesh, he existed in the form of God.

You actually do not believe this Frank because it goes against your view.

See the word EXIST. It has a meaning that is applicable to the form of God and flesh.

[terraricca]

Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Feb. 28 2012,15:42)

Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 28 2012,08:35) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Feb. 28 2012,15:29) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 28 2012,08:04) Hi Frank, How important is this? Nick, Well, it is important in that Mike and t8 has asserted this in their previous post in comparing what is said in Revelation and the so-called “Book of Yahchanan [John]” and like the critical scholars in the excerpt I had previously posted, I also have my doubt that the Apostle Yahchanan [John] authored the so-called “Book of Yahchanan [John]”. This being said, I would like ALL to consider a book that I had previously read online and found very revealing concerning this matter. The link to this book is as follows: CLICK HERE to download the book The Disciple Whom Jesus Loved by J. Phillips in PDF Format for FREE or to read it online or click on the following hyper linked text for FREE printable copies of this Bible study or to read it online: The Disciple Whom Jesus Loved Take another look – The Bible has the answer J. Phillips This book is a very easy read and understandable from a layman's perspective. F you do not read the bible why should read a book that you advertised and have no comment about it,so in three words what the book say terraricca, You are bearing false witness against me to what you are not even a witness to! I read and study Scripture daily as I am instructed to do in the Scripture.

F

no ,I give you scriptures and you have ignore them why ??

[mikeboll64]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 27 2012,10:14)

Your info mentioned Hagyah [Haggai]: meaning – 'Feast of Yahweh', right?  Consider: Ezra 5:1 Now Haggai the prophet and Zechariah the prophet, a descendant of Iddo, prophesied to the Jews in Judah and Jerusalem in the name of the God of Israel, who was over them.

1.  Do you understand Ezra to be saying a literal “feast of Yahweh” prophesied to the Jews?  

2.  Or do you understand that the PERSON who was CALLED BY THE NAME “feast of Yahweh” did the prophesying?

Which one, Frank?  I only want to hear you say #1 or #2.

As far as who wrote the Gospel of John, consider that in John 13:23, the author identifies himself as being in attendance at the last supper.  That narrows it down to one of the 12 Apostles.  We can eliminate Peter from the context, as well as Thomas and Judas Iscariot.

I suppose with a little research, we could eliminate some others too.  I don't know why or when the writing was attributed to the Apostle John.  But it was for sure written by one of the 12 Apostles at the last supper.  I have no reason to doubt that it was John, as generally thought – do you?

[Frank4YAHWEH]

Quote (t8 @ Feb. 28 2012,08:43)

Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Feb. 28 2012,11:36) t8, It does not say “he pre-existed”. I believe when it says that “he existed” it is speaking of his existence here on earth and not that he pre-existed in the beginning with his and our Father Yahweh in the beginning as a “God” Frank, I am not saying that he preexisted, I don't need to. It is possible that I may have never said this word in my posts. I am saying that he existed in the form of God, emptied himself, came in the flesh, died, rose from the dead, and is WITH God now in the glory he had with the Father before the world began. I also believe Jesus when he said, “Before Abraham I am”. So I believe all this and do not need to use the word pre-exist do I. The text speaks for itself and I hold the view of these texts. I should also remind you that it doesn't actually say that he didn't pre-exist. Yet you say that he didn't pre-exist. So I stick to scripture and yet you are forced to say that which scripture actually doesn't say. See how your quoted statement is more relevant to yourself than me? He EXISTED in the form of God. Jesus said, “BEFORE Abraham, I am”. Amen.

t8,

Nowhere in Scripture does it ever say “[Yahshua] existed in the form of God, emptied himself, came in the flesh, died, rose from the dead, and is WITH God now in the glory he had with the Father before the world began.”

You are simply taking various parts of Scripture text and placing them together to bring about your own personal doctrine of deception. This is perverting and twisting (“wrest”[ing]) Scripture to your own destruction.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Feb. 27 2012,15:36)

I believe when it says that “he existed” it is speaking of his existence here on earth and not that he pre-existed in the beginning with his and our Father Yahweh in the beginning as a “God”

But Frank,

They are listed in a chronological order:

1. Was existing in the form of God.
2. Emptied himself.
3. Was made into the likeness of a human being.

# 3 couldn't have happened AFTER Jesus was already a human being. There is no choice but for Jesus to have been something OTHER THAN a human being before being made into one.

[Frank4YAHWEH]

Quote (t8 @ Feb. 28 2012,08:49)

Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Feb. 28 2012,11:36) t8, It does not say “he pre-existed”. I believe when it says that “he existed” it is speaking of his existence here on earth and not that he pre-existed in the beginning with his and our Father Yahweh in the beginning as a “God” Frank, before Jesus existed in the flesh, he existed in the form of God. You actually do not believe this Frank because it goes against your view. See the word EXIST. It has a meaning that is applicable to the form of God and flesh.

t8,

Nowhere in Scripture does it ever say “Before Jesus existed in the flesh, he existed in the form of God.”

[Frank4YAHWEH]

Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 28 2012,08:50)

Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Feb. 28 2012,15:42) Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 28 2012,08:35) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Feb. 28 2012,15:29) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 28 2012,08:04) Hi Frank, How important is this? Nick, Well, it is important in that Mike and t8 has asserted this in their previous post in comparing what is said in Revelation and the so-called “Book of Yahchanan [John]” and like the critical scholars in the excerpt I had previously posted, I also have my doubt that the Apostle Yahchanan [John] authored the so-called “Book of Yahchanan [John]”. This being said, I would like ALL to consider a book that I had previously read online and found very revealing concerning this matter. The link to this book is as follows: CLICK HERE to download the book The Disciple Whom Jesus Loved by J. Phillips in PDF Format for FREE or to read it online or click on the following hyper linked text for FREE printable copies of this Bible study or to read it online: The Disciple Whom Jesus Loved Take another look – The Bible has the answer J. Phillips This book is a very easy read and understandable from a layman's perspective. F you do not read the bible why should read a book that you advertised and have no comment about it,so in three words what the book say terraricca, You are bearing false witness against me to what you are not even a witness to! I read and study Scripture daily as I am instructed to do in the Scripture. F no ,I give you scriptures and you have ignore them why ??

terraricca,

You did not give me Scripture! The following you posted in response to me is not Scripture, but is simply you bearing false witness against me when in fact you are not a witness to what it is that I do:

you do not read the bible why should read a book that you advertised and have no comment about it,so in three words what the book say

[Frank4YAHWEH]

Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 28 2012,08:47)

Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Feb. 28 2012,15:44) Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 28 2012,08:41) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Feb. 28 2012,15:36) Quote (t8 @ Feb. 28 2012,08:22) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Feb. 28 2012,09:36) To ALL, If you believe that Yahshua pre-existed his birth as an actual being, what type of being do you believe he pre-existed his birth as? He existed in the form of God. This is what we are told. Philippians 2:6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, This should be a good enough answer as your question is directly answered by scripture itself. If it is not good enough, then neither is scripture good enough for you, but you raise yourself above it. t8, It does not say “he pre-existed“. I believe when it says that “he existed” it is speaking of his existence here on earth and not that he pre-existed in the beginning with his and our Father Yahweh in the beginning as a “God” F         it is so funny,you do not believe scriptures even if we show them to you, so the Son was dead beside his father terraricca, Where did I ever say “The Son was dead beside his father.” F if you claim that he did not say he pre existed then you must think that he does not exist ,if i mistaken it is because you short on words

terraricca,

It is quite obvious from my previous posts that I most certainly do believe that Yahshua existed and it is quite obvious from your previous posts that you can not even form an intelligible English sentence.

[Frank4YAHWEH]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 28 2012,08:55)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 27 2012,10:14) Your info mentioned Hagyah [Haggai]: meaning – 'Feast of Yahweh', right?  Consider: Ezra 5:1 Now Haggai the prophet and Zechariah the prophet, a descendant of Iddo, prophesied to the Jews in Judah and Jerusalem in the name of the God of Israel, who was over them. 1.  Do you understand Ezra to be saying a literal “feast of Yahweh” prophesied to the Jews?   2.  Or do you understand that the PERSON who was CALLED BY THE NAME “feast of Yahweh” did the prophesying? Which one, Frank?  I only want to hear you say #1 or #2. As far as who wrote the Gospel of John, consider that in John 13:23, the author identifies himself as being in attendance at the last supper.  That narrows it down to one of the 12 Apostles.  We can eliminate Peter from the context, as well as Thomas and Judas Iscariot. I suppose with a little research, we could eliminate some others too.  I don't know why or when the writing was attributed to the Apostle John.  But it was for sure written by one of the 12 Apostles at the last supper.  I have no reason to doubt that it was John, as generally thought – do you?

Mike,

#1 or #2.

[Proclaimer]

Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Feb. 28 2012,11:58)

Quote (t8 @ Feb. 28 2012,08:49) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Feb. 28 2012,11:36) t8, It does not say “he pre-existed”. I believe when it says that “he existed” it is speaking of his existence here on earth and not that he pre-existed in the beginning with his and our Father Yahweh in the beginning as a “God” Frank, before Jesus existed in the flesh, he existed in the form of God. You actually do not believe this Frank because it goes against your view. See the word EXIST. It has a meaning that is applicable to the form of God and flesh. t8, Nowhere in Scripture does it ever say “Before Jesus existed in the flesh, he existed in the form of God.”

Philippians 2:5-7
5 Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, although He EXISTED in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7 but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men.

See that Frank. Scripture contradicts your view.

You say that Jesus existed in the flesh and that he has never existed without the flesh because he is the flesh. Your doctrine is blatantly carnal. Yet Paul teaches that he EXISTED in the form of God followed by emptying himself and becoming a servant and being made in the likeness of men.

Anyone can plainly see here that he EXISTED in the form of God and was made in the likeness of men.

This scripture should be enough for you to change your view. But sometimes scripture is not enough for a man, even one that professes to trust God and scripture.

In short Frank we believe this and you do not. Be honest about it.

[NickHassan]

Hi T8,
Yes the Spirit of Christ is in the form of God.

[Frank4YAHWEH]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 28 2012,08:58)

Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Feb. 27 2012,15:36) I believe when it says that “he existed” it is speaking of his existence here on earth and not that he pre-existed in the beginning with his and our Father Yahweh in the beginning as a “God” But Frank, They are listed in a chronological order: 1.  Was existing in the form of God. 2.  Emptied himself. 3.  Was made into the likeness of a human being. # 3 couldn't have happened AFTER Jesus was already a human being.  There is no choice but for Jesus to have been something OTHER THAN a human being before being made into one.

But Mike,

I believe when it says that “he existed” it is speaking of his existence here on earth and not that he pre-existed in the beginning with his and our Father Yahweh in the beginning as a “God”.

[Frank4YAHWEH]

Quote (t8 @ Feb. 28 2012,09:13)

Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Feb. 28 2012,11:58) Quote (t8 @ Feb. 28 2012,08:49) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Feb. 28 2012,11:36) t8, It does not say “he pre-existed”. I believe when it says that “he existed” it is speaking of his existence here on earth and not that he pre-existed in the beginning with his and our Father Yahweh in the beginning as a “God” Frank, before Jesus existed in the flesh, he existed in the form of God. You actually do not believe this Frank because it goes against your view. See the word EXIST. It has a meaning that is applicable to the form of God and flesh. t8, Nowhere in Scripture does it ever say “Before Jesus existed in the flesh, he existed in the form of God.” Philippians 2:5-7 5 Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, although He EXISTED in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7 but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. See that Frank. Scripture contradicts your view. You say that Jesus existed in the flesh and that he has never existed without the flesh because he is the flesh. Your doctrine is blatantly carnal. Yet Paul teaches that he EXISTED in the form of God followed by emptying himself and becoming a servant and being made in the likeness of men. Anyone can plainly see here that he EXISTED in the form of God and was made in the likeness of men. This scripture should be enough for you to change your view. But sometimes scripture is not enough for a man, even one that professes to trust God and scripture. In short Frank we believe this and you do not. Be honest about it.

t8,

Nowhere in Scripture does it ever say “Before Jesus existed in the flesh, he existed in the form of God.”

You will have to QUOTE me from ANY translation of Scripture where it ACTUALLY SAYS this!

[terraricca]

Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Feb. 28 2012,16:03)

Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 28 2012,08:50) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Feb. 28 2012,15:42) Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 28 2012,08:35) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Feb. 28 2012,15:29) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 28 2012,08:04) Hi Frank, How important is this? Nick, Well, it is important in that Mike and t8 has asserted this in their previous post in comparing what is said in Revelation and the so-called “Book of Yahchanan [John]” and like the critical scholars in the excerpt I had previously posted, I also have my doubt that the Apostle Yahchanan [John] authored the so-called “Book of Yahchanan [John]”. This being said, I would like ALL to consider a book that I had previously read online and found very revealing concerning this matter. The link to this book is as follows: CLICK HERE to download the book The Disciple Whom Jesus Loved by J. Phillips in PDF Format for FREE or to read it online or click on the following hyper linked text for FREE printable copies of this Bible study or to read it online: The Disciple Whom Jesus Loved Take another look – The Bible has the answer J. Phillips This book is a very easy read and understandable from a layman's perspective. F you do not read the bible why should read a book that you advertised and have no comment about it,so in three words what the book say terraricca, You are bearing false witness against me to what you are not even a witness to! I read and study Scripture daily as I am instructed to do in the Scripture. F no ,I give you scriptures and you have ignore them why ?? terraricca, You did not give me Scripture! The following you posted in response to me is not Scripture, but is simply you bearing false witness against me when in fact you are not a witness to what it is that I do: you do not read the bible why should read a book that you advertised and have no comment about it,so in three words what the book say

frank

Quote

terraricca Group: Regular Members Posts: 11693 Joined: Oct. 2009 Posted: Feb. 28 2012,15:26 Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Feb. 28 2012,13:36) To ALL, If you believe that Yahshua pre-existed his birth as an actual being, what type of being do you believe he pre-existed his birth as? Frank Christ it says is the first born and only one that God created directly ,all others were created through him, so he must have been the closes to God as some one can be , Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. Col 1:16 For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him. Col 1:17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy. Col 1:19 For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, Pr 8:22 “The LORD brought me forth as the first of his works, before his deeds of old; Pr 8:23 I was appointed from eternity, from the beginning, before the world began. Pr 8:24 When there were no oceans, I was given birth, when there were no springs abounding with water; Pr 8:25 before the mountains were settled in place, before the hills, I was given birth, Pr 8:26 before he made the earth or its fields or any of the dust of the world. Pr 8:27 I was there when he set the heavens in place, when he marked out the horizon on the face of the deep, Pr 8:28 when he established the clouds above and fixed securely the fountains of the deep, Pr 8:29 when he gave the sea its boundary so the waters would not overstep his command, and when he marked out the foundations of the earth. Pr 8:30 Then I was the craftsman at his side. I was filled with delight day after day, rejoicing always in his presence, Pr 8:31 rejoicing in his whole world and delighting in mankind. compere those two set of scriptures very carefully and see where is the son of God , ————– PR i am just a fisherman

Quote

You did not give me Scripture!

what is this then ???????????

[Author]

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