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Quote (Pastry @ Feb. 16 2012,07:34) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 16 2012,06:35) Hi F,
We are all at different stages.
Patience
Hi Nick! With that statement I do agree…..
To say such foolishness, is not of God….You and I have known t8 and Mike longer then Frank has…. They are very honest people….
And I agree with their understanding that Jesus who was The Word of God, before He came to earth…. I often asked persons like that who is it then inRev 19:13 And he [was] clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
Rev 19:14 And the armies [which were] in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
Rev 19:16 And he hath on [his] vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
My believe is that this is who became Jesus, and your??????
Peace and Love Irene
Pastry and Nick,
Actually, nowhere in Scripture does it ever teach as doctrine or say “Yahshua ['Jesus'] is the word of Yahweh ['God']”. In Revelation it is said that Yahshua's name is called “The Word of Yahweh”. The meaning behind this name in accordance with Scripture as whole is that Yahshua is the spokesman of his and our Father Yahweh's word in this last time period (cf. Hebrews 1:1-2). This is not the name that Father Yahweh GAVE to His son, but is the name or more accurately title by which he is called. Note that in the context of the passage from Hebrews that I suggest you compare, it makes known that the prophets of old were the spokesmen of Father Yahweh's word before Yahshua came into existence in this last time period. Just as the prophets of old were not LITERALLY Father Yahweh's word as pre-existent beings with Father Yahweh in the beginning, Yahshua was also not LITERALLY Father Yahweh's word that pre-existed with Him in the beginning. Father Yahweh's word is just that, His word or words. Father Yahweh's word or words is not a pre-existent being or pre-existent beings that existed along side of Him separate from Him. This is why Yahchanan [John] clearly makes it known right at first “… and the word was Yahweh ['God'].”, and he does not say '…and the word was Yahshua [“Jesus”]'. Just as your word is you in this forum to us, Father Yahweh's word is He Himself in Scripture to all mankind. Scripture is in fact the inspired prophetic word of Father Yahweh and not the word of another. This is also why Yahshua clearly made it known that he spoke as Father Yahweh had directed him to speak (cf. Yahchanan [John] 7:16-17; 12:49-50).
Hebrew GIVEN names clearly have meanings behind them, but the meanings of these GIVEN Hebrew names are not LITERALLY those of who they were GIVEN to. Note that it makes known in Scripture that Father Yahweh had GIVEN His son Yahshua a name that is above all other names that are named. The name Yahshua means 'Yahweh is Redeemer' designating that Yahweh is our Supreme Redeemer. Yes, it is also made known in Scripture that Yahshua is also our redeemer in this last time period, but it is his and our Father Yahweh that GAVE His son ALL power (authority) in Heaven and in the Earth and this ALL power (authority) most certainly included the power (authority) to redeem mankind from sin and death and it was his and our Father Yahweh that redeemed His son Yahshua from death. Note also that in the so called “Old Testament” that Father Yahweh made it quite clear IN THE BEGINNING that there was no redeemer other than He or that there was no redeemer beside Him. It is only IN THE LAST TIME PERIOD that Father Yahweh provided and GAVE power (authority) unto His son Yahshua to redeem mankind from sin and death.
Further explaining how the meanings of GIVEN Hebrew names are not LITERALLY those who they are GIVEN to, I would like you to observe the meanings of some Hebrew names that I posted as a blog entry on my Xanga blog that I had posted previously on this forum by clicking on the hyper linked text that follows:
Yahshua's Name Is Called “The Word of Yahweh”
Revelation 19:13frank! i find it interestig that you quoted Hebrew
Hbr 1:1 ¶ God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
Hbr 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by [his] Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
BY WHOM ALSO (JESUS) HE MADE THE WORLD…
Exactly what John tells us
Jhn 1:1 ¶ In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.Jhn 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
Jhn 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
In order to make the worlds by Him, The Word of God, or the Spokesman of God, He had to be there before the world was John 17:5 says so…
You are in denial and I leave it at that, I am not about the put good Scriptures in front of a swine….
IreneQuote (Ed J @ Feb. 16 2012,08:38) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 16 2012,06:10) Hi Frank,
No they are honestly doing their best to guide people.
Agreed!
Nick and Ed J,A man being sincere or honest about what he believes is most certainly not truth, especially if what this man says is not in accordance with Father Yahweh's prophetic word. This is why it says in Scripture:
To the torah and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them (Isayah 8:20; cf. 1 Yahchanan [John] 1:6-7).
Quote (Pastry @ Feb. 16 2012,10:10) frank! i find it interestig that you quoted Hebrew Hbr 1:1 ¶ God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
Hbr 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by [his] Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
BY WHOM ALSO (JESUS) HE MADE THE WORLD…
Exactly what John tells us
Jhn 1:1 ¶ In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.Jhn 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
Jhn 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
In order to make the worlds by Him, The Word of God, or the Spokesman of God, He had to be there before the world was John 17:5 says so…
You are in denial and I leave it at that, I am not about the put good Scriptures in front of a swine….
Irene
Pastry,I have presented an article for all to read in whole to this forum before and MANY times entered a link to this article here. What is as follows is an excerpt from that article:
Hebrews 1:1 & 2
“In many and various ways Yahweh spoke of old to our fathers by the prophets; but in these last days he has spoken to us by a Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, through whom also he created the world” (RSV).
This indicates the heavenly Father is supreme.
(1) As most English versions read, he authorized the Son, Yahshua, to do the actual work in creating the heavens and the earth and all things in them.
(2) Many believe that Yahshua, in a pre-existent state, was Yahweh's spokesman; a Son spoke for him and did Yahweh's work for him, such as creating the world.
If either of the statements are true – if Yahshua spoke the world into existence – then certainly the Messiah existed before the world existed. Let us now examine Hebrews 1:1,2.
What is a spokesman? “One who speaks in the name and on behalf of another or others” (Readers Digest Great Encyclopedic Dictionary, 1975).
Reviewing Heb 1:1 we see that Yahshua was not Yahweh's spokesman. Instead, the prophets were his spokesmen. Yahweh “spoke to our fathers by the prophets.” Therefore, even if Yahshua pre-existed, he was not the spokesman who contacted “our fathers.” It was, evidently, only in “these last days” that Yahweh “spoke to us by his Son” (Heb 1:1; 1 Pet. 1:20)
END OF EXCERPT
I really do not have the time to present this article in full here, especially when I believe that it falls on those who have ears to hear and who are dull of hearing. I would suggest you go back to this article in full as I had presented it previously or simply click on the following hyper linked text to read it in full. Here you will find a full explanation of this passage in accordance with Scripture as a whole.
YAHSHUA: DID HE PRE-EXIST?
An Explanation Of Our Views
By Voy Wilks
10/23/90Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 16 2012,10:26) Hi F,
Can you judge?
Are you yet perfect?
Nick,Certainly you are not one of those who believes that we are to be completely void of judgement, are you? I believe that we are to judge in accordance to Father Yahweh's inspired word as Scripture instructs. It is Father Yahweh's inspired prophetic word that is perfect, not I.
Hi F,
So the prophets and Yahshua who was the great prophet promised[acts 3.22]
were all vessels used by God through His Spirit to speak to men.
The Spirit does all of God's work in creation.
Faithful vessels too share the gloryQuote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 16 2012,10:26) Hi F,
Can you judge?
Are you yet perfect?
Nick,If you say that you do not judge, you are most certainly a liar!
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 16 2012,15:51) Hi t,
Paul said it was like a marriage.
Eph 5 etc
Nicklike these
;Eph 4:29 Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen.
Eph 4:30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.
Eph 4:31 Get rid of all bitterness, rage and anger, brawling and slander, along with every form of malice.
Eph 4:32 Be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other, just as in Christ God forgave you.
Eph 5:1 Be imitators of God, therefore, as dearly loved children
Eph 5:2 and live a life of love, just as Christ loved us and gave himself up for us as a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God.
Eph 5:3 But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God’s holy people.
Eph 5:4 Nor should there be obscenity, foolish talk or coarse joking, which are out of place, but rather thanksgiving.
Eph 5:5 For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or greedy person—such a man is an idolater—has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
Eph 5:6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God’s wrath comes on those who are disobedient.
Eph 5:7 Therefore do not be partners with them.and how do those Christians would do what Paul ask
Eph 5:17 Therefore do not be foolish, but understand what the Lord’s will is.
Eph 5:18 Do not get drunk on wine, which leads to debauchery. Instead, be filled with the Spirit.Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Feb. 14 2012,18:55) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 15 2012,08:34) ……..believing that the words “I HAD” refer to something Jesus never actually HAD.
Mike is simply bearing false witness to what it is that I truly believe.
So then you believe the scriptures that Jesus DID HAVE glory alongside his God before the world began?The person Jesus either DID or he DIDN'T, Frank. Which one?
Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Feb. 14 2012,20:17) Mike, What was is the “much” that you believe Yahshua gave up that no one else would give up?
Immortality alongside his God.Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 16 2012,10:50) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Feb. 14 2012,18:55) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 15 2012,08:34) ……..believing that the words “I HAD” refer to something Jesus never actually HAD.
Mike is simply bearing false witness to what it is that I truly believe.
So then you believe the scriptures that Jesus DID HAVE glory alongside his God before the world began?The person Jesus either DID or he DIDN'T, Frank. Which one?
Mike,I believe Yahshua was esteemed by his and our Father Yahweh before the world was, but Scripture says nothing about his pre-existing his birth as and actual being along side of Him before the world was. Did you forget that Father Yahweh knows the future of things to happen. Certainly you do not believe that Father Yahweh foreseen His son as a disobedient servant as opposed to his being a humble servant as His prophetic word states, do you?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 16 2012,10:55) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Feb. 14 2012,20:17) Mike, What was is the “much” that you believe Yahshua gave up that no one else would give up?
Immortality alongside his God.
Mike,Yahshua was not an immortal being along side of his and our Father Yahweh in the beginning. If he were, logic only tells us that an immortal being can never die. If you believe such foolishness, then you believe that Yahshua did not in fact die.
Frank, despite what you posted last night, no one in their right mind prays that God will restore upon them the glory they USED TO HAVE with Him in heaven.
Being foreordained to someday have glory alongside God in heaven is a far cry from anyone REMEMBERING the glory they ALREADY HAD in heaven.
Jesus remembered the glory he had in heaven, and asked to have it returned to him.
Frank, about Phil 2:
1. WHEN do you suppose Jesus was existing in the form of God? When he was 2? 14? 30? WHEN exactly?
2. WHEN do you suppose he emptied himself of this form or existence?
3. WHEN do you suppose the human being Jesus humbled himself and was made into a human being?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 16 2012,11:09) Frank, despite what you posted last night, no one in their right mind prays that God will restore upon them the glory they USED TO HAVE with Him in heaven. Being foreordained to someday have glory alongside God in heaven is a far cry from anyone REMEMBERING the glory they ALREADY HAD in heaven.
Jesus remembered the glory he had in heaven, and asked to have it returned to him.
Frank, about Phil 2:
1. WHEN do you suppose Jesus was existing in the form of God? When he was 2? 14? 30? WHEN exactly?
2. WHEN do you suppose he emptied himself of this form or existence?
3. WHEN do you suppose the human being Jesus humbled himself and was made into a human being?
Mike,Your avatar suites you very well in that you are nothing but a raving wolf ready to devour that which is truth.
Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Feb. 15 2012,18:08) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 16 2012,10:55) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Feb. 14 2012,20:17) Mike, What was is the “much” that you believe Yahshua gave up that no one else would give up?
Immortality alongside his God.
Mike,Yahshua was not an immortal being along side of his and our Father Yahweh in the beginning. If he were, logic only tells us that an immortal being can never die. If you believe such foolishness, then you believe that Yahshua did not in fact die.
Oh I believe he died alright. He died the same death any human being has ever died.BUT……………. Adam was originally created immortal, right? Had he and Eve not sinned, they would be living still today. Angels are created immortal, Frank. That means they can't die of natural causes or getting run over by a truck, etc. It doesn't mean they can't be destroyed.
Jesus sacrificed his immortality to be made into the likeness of a human being. As a human being, he then could die. Had he not ever left heaven, he would have never died.
Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Feb. 15 2012,18:12) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 16 2012,11:09) Frank, despite what you posted last night, no one in their right mind prays that God will restore upon them the glory they USED TO HAVE with Him in heaven. Being foreordained to someday have glory alongside God in heaven is a far cry from anyone REMEMBERING the glory they ALREADY HAD in heaven.
Jesus remembered the glory he had in heaven, and asked to have it returned to him.
Frank, about Phil 2:
1. WHEN do you suppose Jesus was existing in the form of God? When he was 2? 14? 30? WHEN exactly?
2. WHEN do you suppose he emptied himself of this form or existence?
3. WHEN do you suppose the human being Jesus humbled himself and was made into a human being?
Mike,Your avatar suites you very well in that you are nothing but a raving wolf ready to devour that which is truth.
How does that statement answer any of my questions, Frank?Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 16 2012,11:13) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Feb. 15 2012,18:08) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 16 2012,10:55) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Feb. 14 2012,20:17) Mike, What was is the “much” that you believe Yahshua gave up that no one else would give up?
Immortality alongside his God.
Mike,Yahshua was not an immortal being along side of his and our Father Yahweh in the beginning. If he were, logic only tells us that an immortal being can never die. If you believe such foolishness, then you believe that Yahshua did not in fact die.
Oh I believe he died alright. He died the same death any human being has ever died.BUT……………. Adam was originally created immortal, right? Had he and Eve not sinned, they would be living still today. Angels are created immortal, Frank. That means they can't die of natural causes or getting run over by a truck, etc. It doesn't mean they can't be destroyed.
Jesus sacrificed his immortality to be made into the likeness of a human being. As a human being, he then could die. Had he not ever left heaven, he would have never died.
Mike,I would suggest you reconsider the false doctrine that Adam and Eve were created immortal beings in light of the well thought out following study article:
Were Adam and Eve Immortal?
By Ben Browder
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