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To ALL,
The belief that Yahshua had a pre-existence as a spirit being “angel” or as a spirit being “God” is nothing but pure nonsense, since such a belief does not coincide with what Scripture teaches concerning Yahshua being simply being born or coming into existence as a man so that he can sympathize with us as mere men.
Please see the following 2 part study:
Did Jesus Christ Pre-exist?
New Testament TeachingQuote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Feb. 14 2012,12:16) Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 14 2012,10:02) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Feb. 14 2012,09:56) Ed J, I would suggest that you heed the warning instructed in Scripture in not adding onto Father Yahweh's prophetic inspired word.
Hi Frank,Are you accusing me of doing that?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Ed J,It is quite clear that you did do this as is evident as follows:
Quote “shall not thy teachers (Frank) be removed into a corner any more, but thine eyes shall see thy teachers:
And thine ears shall hear a word behind thee, saying, This is the way, walk ye in it” (Isaiah 30:20-21)
Hi Frank,Does that add to or take away from God's message? (Rev.22:18-19)
It is YOU who incorrectly adds a “W” to Gods name, YHVH!God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Feb. 14 2012,12:27) Mike, It is quite evident that Yahshua is recorded as saying this. I believe we have been through this before.
“The Glory I Had With You Before The World Was”
Yahchanan [John] 17:5Do these words mean that Yahshua was personally with the Father from the very beginning? or are they expressive of the fact that Yahweh, as a wise Architect (Hebrews 11:10), foresaw the glory of His completed plan?
Hi Frank,Would that not instead mean that he hasn't had any glory yet?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Ed J @ Feb. 14 2012,16:16) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Feb. 14 2012,12:27) Mike, It is quite evident that Yahshua is recorded as saying this. I believe we have been through this before.
“The Glory I Had With You Before The World Was”
Yahchanan [John] 17:5Do these words mean that Yahshua was personally with the Father from the very beginning? or are they expressive of the fact that Yahweh, as a wise Architect (Hebrews 11:10), foresaw the glory of His completed plan?
Hi Frank,Would that not instead mean that he hasn't had any glory yet?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Ed J,You go right ahead and believe that! As for me, I do not believe such foolishness!
Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 14 2012,16:13) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Feb. 14 2012,12:16) Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 14 2012,10:02) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Feb. 14 2012,09:56) Ed J, I would suggest that you heed the warning instructed in Scripture in not adding onto Father Yahweh's prophetic inspired word.
Hi Frank,Are you accusing me of doing that?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Ed J,It is quite clear that you did do this as is evident as follows:
Quote “shall not thy teachers (Frank) be removed into a corner any more, but thine eyes shall see thy teachers:
And thine ears shall hear a word behind thee, saying, This is the way, walk ye in it” (Isaiah 30:20-21)
Hi Frank,Does that add to or take away from God's message? (Rev.22:18-19)
It is YOU who incorrectly adds a “W” to Gods name, YHVH!God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Ed J,You know full well that you added my name to that Scripture passage and that in your doing so you add and in turn take away from Father Yahweh's inspired prophetic word.
No, I did not incorrectly add a “W” to our Heavenly Father and Creator's Name.
Now, go back to your corner where you rightfully belong wearing your pointed dunce cap atop of your head.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 13 2012,20:21) Hi MB,
You are so keen to judge and divide.
From where do these things come?
Nick, you and Frank are both intelligent people. Surely he is smart enough to know that Jesus said the words in 17:5, because the scripture clearly says Jesus said those words.Yet he WANTS for Jesus not to have pre-existed his flesh, so he is willing to trick himself into believing that the words “I HAD” refer to something Jesus never actually HAD.
And you are smart enough to know that what Frank claims makes no sense whatsoever, but you also WANT for Jesus not to have pre-existed his flesh, so you are willing to trick yourself into believing GOD spoke through Jesus and called HIMSELF “Father” and ASKED HIMSELF to be given the glory HE HIMSELF had ALONGSIDE HIMSELF before the world began.
Frank can clearly see the flaw in your claim; and you can clearly see the flaw in his. But I let the scriptures and the spirit guide me, and so can see the flaw in both claims.
What 17:5 teaches is that JESUS asked for the return of a past glory that JESUS had alongside his God before the world began. This is what 17:5 clearly teaches, Nick. Why is it that you used to be able to see this, but now you are blinded to it?
Hi MB,
So you say.But check Jn5,12,14 etc and you will see God gave him the words to say.
Dig deeper
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 15 2012,15:40) Hi MB,
So you say.But check Jn5,12,14 etc and you will see God gave him the words to say.
Dig deeper
nickJn 5:12 So they asked him, “Who is this fellow who told you to pick it up and walk?”
Jn 5:13 The man who was healed had no idea who it was, for Jesus had slipped away into the crowd that was there.
Jn 5:14 Later Jesus found him at the temple and said to him, “See, you are well again. Stop sinning or something worse may happen to you.”could you say what you see in this scriptures that would make it connected to ;John17;5
????Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 14 2012,15:40) Hi MB,
So you say.But check Jn5,12,14 etc and you will see God gave him the words to say.
Dig deeper
So 17:5 was a case of God speaking through Jesus and asking HIMSELF for the glory He used to have alongside HIMSELF?Is that your stance, Nick?
Nick,
You would change the scriptures to fit your own doctrine? You would have God calling Himself “Father”?
Nick.
We have to cater for all scripture, not just certain ones.
It is easy to take the scriptures that talk of Jesus as a man, and apply this understanding to our experience as men, and thus apply a beginning when we are born or conceived.
However, Jesus was obviously different in the sense that his Father was not earthly like our fathers. Secondly, it is written that he EXISTED in the form of God before existing in the flesh. Thirdly, Jesus is both the root and offspring of David, and lastly he was the agent that God created all things through.
It was Jesus himself who asked to go back to the glory that he had with the Father before the world began.
Are we simply just believing his words. What is wrong with that may I ask? Did not Jesus say, “my sheep hear my voice”. So that would mean that if someone doesn't believe what Jesus said, then is it questionable as to whether they one of his?
If we simply read with no bias about Jesus, then all things written in scripture about him have to be considered. A student of scripture does not pick and choose what he wants because you can almost prove anything with that method.
I know as a photographer, that a good photo is often what is not in the picture as much as what is in it. I can take a picture of a bird in a Kowhai tree giving the sense that this is a wilderness shot to the viewer, when in actual fact the tree might be on the property of a dirty old tyre factory.
A true picture is one that takes the whole scene, not just the part you want.
To those who say that Jesus existed in no other form before being a man, I need to remind you that it is written that he EXISTED in the form of God.
Think about what the word EXISTED means.
And if you do not agree with that scripture, then you also cannot agree that Jesus said, “Before Abraham, I am”. What does I am mean? Look it up.
Hi T8,
Jesus Christ is one with God's Spirit.
He is the same yesterday today and forever.But Jesus was conceived in Mary
Because the children were flesh, Jesus also had to empty himself and become made in the likeness of flesh. But this was long after the universe was created by his God through him.
Nick, you apparently don't understand the mind of Christ we are told to have in us. The whole point of Phil 2 is to emphasize how Jesus was in the most cushy position in existence, next to the Creator of all things; but he didn't hesitate to give that position up and make himself nothing to do his part in saving mankind.
The teaching is that we should be willing to sacrifice the niceties of our lives to help others in need. And not one of us will ever give up as much as Jesus did.
And thankfully, God is just and righteous, and not only brought Jesus back to his original position, but gave him a raise.
Yes Nick. CHRIST Jesus, who was existing in the form of God, but didn't hesitate to become a human and put up with much nonsense, suffering, denial, ridicule, and a painful death to do his part in our salvation.
He left great things behind to do the will of his God. He knew though, that his God was gracious beyond human comprehension, and knew that he would be rewarded 100 fold.
He mentioned this when he taught that anyone who leaves loved ones or a cushy, happy life behind to follow him and his God would be rewarded greatly at a later time.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 15 2012,10:53) Hi T8,
Jesus Christ is one with God's Spirit.
He is the same yesterday today and forever.But Jesus was conceived in Mary
Nick.He existed in the form of God before being conceived as a man. It is written.
The man from heaven.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 15 2012,08:34) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 13 2012,20:21) Hi MB,
You are so keen to judge and divide.
From where do these things come?
Nick, you and Frank are both intelligent people. Surely he is smart enough to know that Jesus said the words in 17:5, because the scripture clearly says Jesus said those words.Yet he WANTS for Jesus not to have pre-existed his flesh, so he is willing to trick himself into believing that the words “I HAD” refer to something Jesus never actually HAD.
And you are smart enough to know that what Frank claims makes no sense whatsoever, but you also WANT for Jesus not to have pre-existed his flesh, so you are willing to trick yourself into believing GOD spoke through Jesus and called HIMSELF “Father” and ASKED HIMSELF to be given the glory HE HIMSELF had ALONGSIDE HIMSELF before the world began.
Frank can clearly see the flaw in your claim; and you can clearly see the flaw in his. But I let the scriptures and the spirit guide me, and so can see the flaw in both claims.
What 17:5 teaches is that JESUS asked for the return of a past glory that JESUS had alongside his God before the world began. This is what 17:5 clearly teaches, Nick. Why is it that you used to be able to see this, but now you are blinded to it?
To ALL,Just to make it quite clear to ALL in what it is that I truly believe and have said …
I have never said nor do I believe that when Yahshua said in communication [“prayer”] with his and our Father Yahweh Who is in Heaven “… the esteem [“glory”] which I had with You before the world was.” that I believed his words “… I had …” referred to something he never actually had as Mike has erroneously twisted my words as follows:
Quote believing that the words “I HAD” refer to something Jesus never actually HAD. It is quite clear that Yahshua had esteem with his and our Father Yahweh before the world was from what is recorded of what he had said as follows:
Now, Father, esteem me together with Yourself, with the esteem which I had with You before the world was (Yahchanan [John] 17:5).
Mike is simply bearing false witness to what it is that I truly believe.
Note that those who follow Father Yahweh's instruction as His son Yahshua did also had esteem with Him before the world was as is clearly made known in the following verse:
We speak about the secret of Yahweh's wisdom. It is a wisdom that has been hidden, which YAHWEH HAD PLANNED FOR OUR ESTEEM BEFORE THE WORLD WAS (1 Corinthians 2:7).
We also as sons (daughters, children) can communicate [“pray”] to our Father Yahweh Who is in Heaven just as Yahshua did and say:
Now, Father, esteem me together with Yourself, with the esteem which I had with You before the world was.
In our communicating [“praying”] this to Father Yahweh, would we be in turn saying that we pre-existed as actual beings with Him in Heaven before the world was? Certainly not! But we as obedient sons (daughters, children) of Father Yahweh can say that we pre-existed in His plan or that we were planned, foreordained, ordained, destined, predestined, predetermined, decreed, or consecrated before the world was as Shaul made known in 1 Corinthians 2:7.
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