Preexistence

[Ed J]

Quote (t8 @ Jan. 20 2012,14:11)

Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 18 2012,01:35) Hi T8, It is like reading the many corrupted versions of the bible, sure can get truth out of them, but you can also learn error.          YHVH wants us to come out of confusion. God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org Yes there is degradation in some form in all translations for differing reasons. KJV suffers from this given that it is an old translation and didn't make use of the oldest manuscripts as they were not available in the day. As you say though, you can extract truth from them, but you have to watch or double check with other translations to see if there is a comparative error.

Hi T8,

Those so called older manuscripts ('Codex Sinaiticvs' and 'Codex Vaticanvs'), have both turned out to be fraudulent.
(See video timeline – 2:47:27-2:52:10) (watch five and a half minutes)

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[mikeboll64]

Ed,

Pick your battles wisely. You use up a lot of time defending a translation that was made, quite well, from the oldest and most reliable mss available AT THE TIME.

It stands to reason that if OLDER mss were found with LESS words in them than the LATER mss, those words were added in at some time.

The KJV translates many of these words that weren't there in the OLDER and BEST mss, because the words WERE there in the mss available to them at that time.

Even the NKJV omits these extra words, because they now know they were in most cases marginal notes made by a scribe, and NOT a part of the scripture itself.

It's strange to me that you have it so hard in your head that the KJV is some “magical” translation that can't be faulted. READ THE OLDER HEBREW AND GREEK MSS instead.

[Ed J]

Hi Mike,

Thank you, I do pick my battles wisely.
I go back to the Greek majority texts and the
Hebrew Masoretic texts for clarification on many issues.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[mikeboll64]

And how does the KJV translate 1 John 5:7, Ed?  They translate it from a more recent mss, in which a scribe added words.

There's no longer even a conflict about the so-called “Johanine Comma”.  Even all the Trinitarian scholars recognize that it was added in later – and none of the newer Trinitarian translations have that phrase – because they KNOW it was spurious.

But what about the KJV, Ed?  How can it be the “perfect” translation when it carries a phrase that EVERYONE knows was added in later, and was therefore NEVER a part of God's inspired written word?

[Ed J]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 21 2012,11:29)

And how does the KJV translate 1 John 5:7, Ed?  They translate it from a more recent mss, in which a scribe added words. There's no longer even a conflict about the so-called “Johanine Comma”.  Even all the Trinitarian scholars recognize that it was added in later – and none of the newer Trinitarian translations have that phrase – because they KNOW it was spurious. But what about the KJV, Ed?  How can it be the “perfect” translation when it carries a phrase that EVERYONE knows was added in later, and was therefore NEVER a part of God's inspired written word?

Hi Mike,

Then you know better than to try to use 1John 5:7
to support your erroneous claims about Jesus; right?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[mikeboll64]

I wasn't aware of any erroneous claims I was making about Jesus.

But it's a good thing there are other translations that render 1 John 5:7 correctly, just in case anyone did want to use the KJV's faulty translation of that scripture to make erroneous claims, right?  

[Ed J]

Hi Mike,

1John 5:7 of the “Textus Receptus” had been compromised.

First off: God's word is forever settled in heaven. (Psalm 119:89)

Secondly: The wording is blatantly wrong; for it to have been legit, it should say…

1 John 5:7 (Adjusted): For there are three that bear the record, the Father, the Word, and Jesus.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Proclaimer]

Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 21 2012,05:23)

Quote (t8 @ Jan. 20 2012,14:11) Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 18 2012,01:35) Hi T8, It is like reading the many corrupted versions of the bible, sure can get truth out of them, but you can also learn error.          YHVH wants us to come out of confusion. God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org Yes there is degradation in some form in all translations for differing reasons. KJV suffers from this given that it is an old translation and didn't make use of the oldest manuscripts as they were not available in the day. As you say though, you can extract truth from them, but you have to watch or double check with other translations to see if there is a comparative error. Hi T8, Those so called older manuscripts ('Codex Sinaiticvs' and 'Codex Vaticanvs'), have both turned out to be fraudulent. (See video timeline – 2:47:27-2:52:10) (watch five and a half minutes) God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

I was thinking the Dead Sea Scrolls actually. But will take a look anyways.

[Frank4YAHWEH]

Can A Spirit Being Die?

Can a spirit being die? More exactly: Can deity (a divine personage) die? If Yahshua the Messiah pre-existed as Deity, or as a Spiritual Being before the world was created, was it possible for him to die (on the tree)? Let the Scriptures answer.

“And Yahshua answering said unto them, The sons of this age marry, and are given in marriage, but those who are accounted worthy to attain to that age and to the resurrection from the dead neither marry nor are given in marriage, for they cannot die any more, because they are equal to the angels; and are sons of Yahweh, being sons of the resurrection.” (Lu.20:34-36, RSV).

We see that angels of Yahweh cannot die. Once resurrected we will be “equal to the angels” in that we cannot die either. Why is this? It is because we are sons of Yahweh, being sons of the resurrection. But when do we become spirit beings? Is this the same as becoming “sons of Yahweh?”

“But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come? So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body.” (1Cor.15:35, 42-44).

It is at the (first) resurrection that we become a spirit being – that we obtain a spiritual body. Please notice the following things that happen at the (first) resurrection:

1) We are raised in power

2) We are raised in glory

3) We are raised in incorruption

4) We are raised to immortality (1 Cor.15:52)

5) We are raised equal to the angels

6) We are raised to become sons of Yahweh, being sons of the resurrection

7) We are raised with a spiritual body

8) We are raised to immortality so we cannot die any more

Luke says those of the first resurrection cannot die. Synonyms of “cannot die” are “incorruption” and “immortal.” Paul says those of the first resurrection come forth as spiritual bodies and are incorruptible and put on immortality. Accepting the statements of both Luke and Paul, we find that spirit beings cannot die. When did Yahshua become a spirit being? Again, the Scriptures have the answer.

“And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam [Yahshua] was made a quickening [life-giving] spirit. Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.” (1Co.15:44-46).

This indicates the Messiah was not a spirit being before he was born physically. The physical (body) comes, then the spiritual (body). When was Yahshua declared to be the son of Yahweh? Just as we will be sons of Yahweh by our resurrection from the dead, so Yahshua was declared to be the son of Yahweh “by his resurrection from the dead” (Rom.1:4).

Conclusion? Once mortal man receives immortality (a spiritual body) he cannot die. Is Deity any less? We must conclude, then, that Deity cannot die – in the past, the present, or in the future. Therefore, Yahshua was not Deity nor did he exist as a spiritual being before the world existed – except in the plans of the Father – plans made from the beginning.

“Who verily was foreordained [in the plans] before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,” (1Pe.1:20).

* “That which is born of flesh is flesh, and that which is born of Spirit is spirit” (Jn.3:6). It is one or the other. No person can be both at the same time.

Did Yahshua Create Or Pre-exist His Birth?

“Jesus IS God!”?

The Name Yahweh

[terraricca]

Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Jan. 22 2012,11:17)

Can A Spirit Being Die? Can a spirit being die? More exactly: Can deity (a divine personage) die? If Yahshua the Messiah pre-existed as Deity, or as a Spiritual Being before the world was created, was it possible for him to die (on the tree)? Let the Scriptures answer. “And Yahshua answering said unto them, The sons of this age marry, and are given in marriage, but those who are accounted worthy to attain to that age and to the resurrection from the dead neither marry nor are given in marriage, for they cannot die any more, because they are equal to the angels; and are sons of Yahweh, being sons of the resurrection.” (Lu.20:34-36, RSV). We see that angels of Yahweh cannot die. Once resurrected we will be “equal to the angels” in that we cannot die either. Why is this? It is because we are sons of Yahweh, being sons of the resurrection. But when do we become spirit beings? Is this the same as becoming “sons of Yahweh?” “But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come? So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body.” (1Cor.15:35, 42-44). It is at the (first) resurrection that we become a spirit being – that we obtain a spiritual body. Please notice the following things that happen at the (first) resurrection: 1) We are raised in power 2) We are raised in glory 3) We are raised in incorruption 4) We are raised to immortality (1 Cor.15:52) 5) We are raised equal to the angels 6) We are raised to become sons of Yahweh, being sons of the resurrection 7) We are raised with a spiritual body 8) We are raised to immortality so we cannot die any more Luke says those of the first resurrection cannot die. Synonyms of “cannot die” are “incorruption” and “immortal.” Paul says those of the first resurrection come forth as spiritual bodies and are incorruptible and put on immortality. Accepting the statements of both Luke and Paul, we find that spirit beings cannot die. When did Yahshua become a spirit being? Again, the Scriptures have the answer. “And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam [Yahshua] was made a quickening [life-giving] spirit. Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.” (1Co.15:44-46). This indicates the Messiah was not a spirit being before he was born physically. The physical (body) comes, then the spiritual (body). When was Yahshua declared to be the son of Yahweh? Just as we will be sons of Yahweh by our resurrection from the dead, so Yahshua was declared to be the son of Yahweh “by his resurrection from the dead” (Rom.1:4). Conclusion? Once mortal man receives immortality (a spiritual body) he cannot die. Is Deity any less? We must conclude, then, that Deity cannot die – in the past, the present, or in the future. Therefore, Yahshua was not Deity nor did he exist as a spiritual being before the world existed – except in the plans of the Father – plans made from the beginning. “Who verily was foreordained [in the plans] before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,” (1Pe.1:20). * “That which is born of flesh is flesh, and that which is born of Spirit is spirit” (Jn.3:6). It is one or the other. No person can be both at the same time. Did Yahshua Create Or Pre-exist His Birth? “Jesus IS God!”? The Name Yahweh

frank

the good question would be ;CAN ANY OF GODS CREATION BE EXTERMINATED OR TERMINATED ?

iF GOD CAN CREATED HE WOULD BE THE ONE THAT CAN REVERSE THE PROCESS NO ? YES

BUT THE END RESULTS WOULD NOT BE SOMETHING HE WANT,AND SO DO NOT TAKE THIS OPTION,

Mt 10:28 Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

the soul is what is US;

Mt 16:26 What good will it be for a man if he gains the whole world, yet forfeits his soul? Or what can a man give in exchange for his soul? WHAT ???

one more thing ;you cannot lose what you do not possess you only can gain what is made available to you,

Pierre

[Frank4YAHWEH]

ONE LONE YAHWEH

“That men may know that thou, WHOSE NAME ALONE IS YAHWEH, art the most high over all the earth” (Ps. 83:18 KJV).

Scriptures teach us there is only ONE Deity, only one Supreme Being, and that ONE BEING is Yahweh – Yahweh ALONE. There is no other. When the name Yahweh appears in Scriptures, it is in almost every case accompanied with singular pronouns; i.e., I, me, my, mine, he, him, his, etc. This is also true of the title “Elohim.” Hundreds, perhaps thousands of times Scriptures use singular pronouns with the Name Yahweh and the title Elohim, just as they do with the word “El” – proof there is only ONE Yahweh, who is the ONE true Elohim.

In only a few Scriptures “us,” “we,” and “our” are used with Elohim and Yahweh. It is not reasonable to allow these few plural pronouns to negate hundreds of singular pronouns associated with The Name, or with his titles. Shall we accept the few, and X out the hundreds? Surely the answer is no. Instead, we should search for an explanation for the use of the plural pronouns in these few Scriptures. We have done this, so please ask for these separate studies.

The above Scriptures clearly state there is ONE (only one) Yahweh. Scriptures listed below reveal there is ONE (only one) true El or Elohim. El and Elohim are used interchangeable when referring to Yahweh. Some believe that ONE, when referring to Yahweh Elohim, means TWO or MORE. Question: In the following Scripture is it reasonable to believe t hat ONE signifies ONE (truly) in everything named except “ONE Elohim?”

“There is ONE body and ONE Spirit, just as you were called ONE HOPE that belongs to your calling, ONE Master, ONE faith, ONE baptism, ONE ELOHIM and FATHER  of us all, who is above all and through all and in all” (Eph. 4:4-6 RSV).

As notes above, some have the notion there is one of everything, except Elohim, which consists of two Beings. If true, then there are TWO FATHERS as well, because ELOHIM IS THE FATHER. However, “Father” is singular, so Elohim must be understood as singular also. Many Scriptures indicate Yahweh the Father is the only true Elohim, and Yahshua is not included. He is separate and apart, as is indicated by the following declaration:

“ … to the ONLY ELOHIM our Savior, THROUGH YAHSHUA the Messiah our Master, be glory, majesty, dominion, and power, before all time, and now, and forevermore” (Jude 25 Sacred Scriptures – Bethel Edition).

So, dear friends, if Yahshua pre-existed, he was not a Yahweh, since there is only ONE Yahweh. Nor was he a true El or Elohim since there is only ONE TRUE El and ONE TRUE Elohim. If Yahshua pre-existed, was he an angel?

“For TO WHAT ANGEL did Yahweh ever say, ‘Thou art my Son, today I have begotten thee?’” (Heb. 1:5).

“But TO WHAT ANGEL has he ever said, ‘Sit at my right hand till I make thy enemies a stool for thy feet?’” (Heb. 1:13).

Never did Yahweh say to an angel (any angel), “You are my son, sit here.”

1)     If Yahshua pre-existed, he was not an angel (Heb. 1:5, 13; 2:5, 16).

2)     If Yahshua pre-existed, he was not an El or an Elohim, since there is ONLY ONE TRUE El and ONE TRUE ELOHIM (Rom 16:26).

3)     If Yahshua pre-existed, he was not a Yahweh, since there is ONLY ONE true Yahweh (Isa. 45:5, 6).

Did Yahshua Create Or Pre-exist His Birth?

“Jesus IS God!”?

The Name Yahweh

[Frank4YAHWEH]

Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 22 2012,04:34)

Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Jan. 22 2012,11:17) Can A Spirit Being Die? Can a spirit being die? More exactly: Can deity (a divine personage) die? If Yahshua the Messiah pre-existed as Deity, or as a Spiritual Being before the world was created, was it possible for him to die (on the tree)? Let the Scriptures answer. “And Yahshua answering said unto them, The sons of this age marry, and are given in marriage, but those who are accounted worthy to attain to that age and to the resurrection from the dead neither marry nor are given in marriage, for they cannot die any more, because they are equal to the angels; and are sons of Yahweh, being sons of the resurrection.” (Lu.20:34-36, RSV). We see that angels of Yahweh cannot die. Once resurrected we will be “equal to the angels” in that we cannot die either. Why is this? It is because we are sons of Yahweh, being sons of the resurrection. But when do we become spirit beings? Is this the same as becoming “sons of Yahweh?” “But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come? So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body.” (1Cor.15:35, 42-44). It is at the (first) resurrection that we become a spirit being – that we obtain a spiritual body. Please notice the following things that happen at the (first) resurrection: 1) We are raised in power 2) We are raised in glory 3) We are raised in incorruption 4) We are raised to immortality (1 Cor.15:52) 5) We are raised equal to the angels 6) We are raised to become sons of Yahweh, being sons of the resurrection 7) We are raised with a spiritual body 8) We are raised to immortality so we cannot die any more Luke says those of the first resurrection cannot die. Synonyms of “cannot die” are “incorruption” and “immortal.” Paul says those of the first resurrection come forth as spiritual bodies and are incorruptible and put on immortality. Accepting the statements of both Luke and Paul, we find that spirit beings cannot die. When did Yahshua become a spirit being? Again, the Scriptures have the answer. “And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam [Yahshua] was made a quickening [life-giving] spirit. Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.” (1Co.15:44-46). This indicates the Messiah was not a spirit being before he was born physically. The physical (body) comes, then the spiritual (body). When was Yahshua declared to be the son of Yahweh? Just as we will be sons of Yahweh by our resurrection from the dead, so Yahshua was declared to be the son of Yahweh “by his resurrection from the dead” (Rom.1:4). Conclusion? Once mortal man receives immortality (a spiritual body) he cannot die. Is Deity any less? We must conclude, then, that Deity cannot die – in the past, the present, or in the future. Therefore, Yahshua was not Deity nor did he exist as a spiritual being before the world existed – except in the plans of the Father – plans made from the beginning. “Who verily was foreordained [in the plans] before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,” (1Pe.1:20). * “That which is born of flesh is flesh, and that which is born of Spirit is spirit” (Jn.3:6). It is one or the other. No person can be both at the same time. Did Yahshua Create Or Pre-exist His Birth? “Jesus IS God!”? The Name Yahweh frank the good question would be ;CAN ANY OF GODS CREATION BE EXTERMINATED OR TERMINATED ? iF GOD CAN CREATED HE WOULD BE THE ONE THAT CAN REVERSE THE PROCESS NO ? YES BUT THE END RESULTS WOULD NOT BE SOMETHING HE WANT,AND SO DO NOT TAKE THIS OPTION, Mt 10:28 Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell. the soul is what is US; Mt 16:26 What good will it be for a man if he gains the whole world, yet forfeits his soul? Or what can a man give in exchange for his soul? WHAT ??? one more thing ;you cannot lose what you do not possess you only can gain what is made available to you, Pierre

Pierre,

Is this your way of avoiding the question asked ?

Can a spirit being die? More exactly: Can deity (a divine personage) die? If Yahshua the Messiah pre-existed as Deity, or as a Spiritual Being before the world was created, was it possible for him to die (on the tree)?

[terraricca]

Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Jan. 23 2012,18:09)

Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 22 2012,04:34) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Jan. 22 2012,11:17) Can A Spirit Being Die? Can a spirit being die? More exactly: Can deity (a divine personage) die? If Yahshua the Messiah pre-existed as Deity, or as a Spiritual Being before the world was created, was it possible for him to die (on the tree)? Let the Scriptures answer. “And Yahshua answering said unto them, The sons of this age marry, and are given in marriage, but those who are accounted worthy to attain to that age and to the resurrection from the dead neither marry nor are given in marriage, for they cannot die any more, because they are equal to the angels; and are sons of Yahweh, being sons of the resurrection.” (Lu.20:34-36, RSV). We see that angels of Yahweh cannot die. Once resurrected we will be “equal to the angels” in that we cannot die either. Why is this? It is because we are sons of Yahweh, being sons of the resurrection. But when do we become spirit beings? Is this the same as becoming “sons of Yahweh?” “But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come? So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body.” (1Cor.15:35, 42-44). It is at the (first) resurrection that we become a spirit being – that we obtain a spiritual body. Please notice the following things that happen at the (first) resurrection: 1) We are raised in power 2) We are raised in glory 3) We are raised in incorruption 4) We are raised to immortality (1 Cor.15:52) 5) We are raised equal to the angels 6) We are raised to become sons of Yahweh, being sons of the resurrection 7) We are raised with a spiritual body 8) We are raised to immortality so we cannot die any more Luke says those of the first resurrection cannot die. Synonyms of “cannot die” are “incorruption” and “immortal.” Paul says those of the first resurrection come forth as spiritual bodies and are incorruptible and put on immortality. Accepting the statements of both Luke and Paul, we find that spirit beings cannot die. When did Yahshua become a spirit being? Again, the Scriptures have the answer. “And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam [Yahshua] was made a quickening [life-giving] spirit. Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.” (1Co.15:44-46). This indicates the Messiah was not a spirit being before he was born physically. The physical (body) comes, then the spiritual (body). When was Yahshua declared to be the son of Yahweh? Just as we will be sons of Yahweh by our resurrection from the dead, so Yahshua was declared to be the son of Yahweh “by his resurrection from the dead” (Rom.1:4). Conclusion? Once mortal man receives immortality (a spiritual body) he cannot die. Is Deity any less? We must conclude, then, that Deity cannot die – in the past, the present, or in the future. Therefore, Yahshua was not Deity nor did he exist as a spiritual being before the world existed – except in the plans of the Father – plans made from the beginning. “Who verily was foreordained [in the plans] before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,” (1Pe.1:20). * “That which is born of flesh is flesh, and that which is born of Spirit is spirit” (Jn.3:6). It is one or the other. No person can be both at the same time. Did Yahshua Create Or Pre-exist His Birth? “Jesus IS God!”? The Name Yahweh frank the good question would be ;CAN ANY OF GODS CREATION BE EXTERMINATED OR TERMINATED ? iF GOD CAN CREATED HE WOULD BE THE ONE THAT CAN REVERSE THE PROCESS NO ? YES BUT THE END RESULTS WOULD NOT BE SOMETHING HE WANT,AND SO DO NOT TAKE THIS OPTION, Mt 10:28 Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell. the soul is what is US; Mt 16:26 What good will it be for a man if he gains the whole world, yet forfeits his soul? Or what can a man give in exchange for his soul? WHAT ??? one more thing ;you cannot lose what you do not possess you only can gain what is made available to you, Pierre Pierre, Is this your way of avoiding the question asked ? Can a spirit being die? More exactly: Can deity (a divine personage) die? If Yahshua the Messiah pre-existed as Deity, or as a Spiritual Being before the world was created, was it possible for him to die (on the tree)?

frank

I think you ask me if Jesus the son of God really died on the cross ?? right?

Pierre

[terraricca]

frank

who did really die on the cross ?Jesus ,the man or the son of God ? or the Word of God the first of creation ;?we know they are all the same person

but first THE WORD OF GOD ,AND THE SON ;IN HEAVEN ,then later on earth Jesus Christ the messiah and still the son of God and as per John still the WORD OF GOD;

SO WHAT IS IT THAT HAPPEN so that this is true

we have to pay attention to scriptures ; EPH 4:9 (Now this expression, “He ascended,” what does it mean except that He also had descended into the lower parts of the earth?
HEB 2:7 “YOU HAVE MADE HIM(Christ) FOR A LITTLE WHILE LOWER THAN THE ANGELS;
YOU HAVE CROWNED HIM WITH GLORY AND HONOR,
AND HAVE APPOINTED HIM OVER THE WORKS OF YOUR HANDS;
HEB 2:9 But we do see Him who was made for a little while lower than the angels, namely, Jesus,because of the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, so that by the grace of God He might taste death for everyone.

WHY WAS HE (CHRIST ) MADE LOWER “because of the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor YES SO THAT HE COULD DIE FOR OUR SINS AND SO SAVE US ,AND AFTER IT IS DONE CHRIST WILL AND DID RECEIVE A CROWN AND HONOR,

JUST READ THE SCRIPTURES AS THEY ARE ,THAT SIMPLE

Pierre

[Frank4YAHWEH]

Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 23 2012,11:59)

Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Jan. 23 2012,18:09) Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 22 2012,04:34) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Jan. 22 2012,11:17) Can A Spirit Being Die? Can a spirit being die? More exactly: Can deity (a divine personage) die? If Yahshua the Messiah pre-existed as Deity, or as a Spiritual Being before the world was created, was it possible for him to die (on the tree)? Let the Scriptures answer. “And Yahshua answering said unto them, The sons of this age marry, and are given in marriage, but those who are accounted worthy to attain to that age and to the resurrection from the dead neither marry nor are given in marriage, for they cannot die any more, because they are equal to the angels; and are sons of Yahweh, being sons of the resurrection.” (Lu.20:34-36, RSV). We see that angels of Yahweh cannot die. Once resurrected we will be “equal to the angels” in that we cannot die either. Why is this? It is because we are sons of Yahweh, being sons of the resurrection. But when do we become spirit beings? Is this the same as becoming “sons of Yahweh?” “But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come? So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body.” (1Cor.15:35, 42-44). It is at the (first) resurrection that we become a spirit being – that we obtain a spiritual body. Please notice the following things that happen at the (first) resurrection: 1) We are raised in power 2) We are raised in glory 3) We are raised in incorruption 4) We are raised to immortality (1 Cor.15:52) 5) We are raised equal to the angels 6) We are raised to become sons of Yahweh, being sons of the resurrection 7) We are raised with a spiritual body 8) We are raised to immortality so we cannot die any more Luke says those of the first resurrection cannot die. Synonyms of “cannot die” are “incorruption” and “immortal.” Paul says those of the first resurrection come forth as spiritual bodies and are incorruptible and put on immortality. Accepting the statements of both Luke and Paul, we find that spirit beings cannot die. When did Yahshua become a spirit being? Again, the Scriptures have the answer. “And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam [Yahshua] was made a quickening [life-giving] spirit. Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.” (1Co.15:44-46). This indicates the Messiah was not a spirit being before he was born physically. The physical (body) comes, then the spiritual (body). When was Yahshua declared to be the son of Yahweh? Just as we will be sons of Yahweh by our resurrection from the dead, so Yahshua was declared to be the son of Yahweh “by his resurrection from the dead” (Rom.1:4). Conclusion? Once mortal man receives immortality (a spiritual body) he cannot die. Is Deity any less? We must conclude, then, that Deity cannot die – in the past, the present, or in the future. Therefore, Yahshua was not Deity nor did he exist as a spiritual being before the world existed – except in the plans of the Father – plans made from the beginning. “Who verily was foreordained [in the plans] before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,” (1Pe.1:20). * “That which is born of flesh is flesh, and that which is born of Spirit is spirit” (Jn.3:6). It is one or the other. No person can be both at the same time. Did Yahshua Create Or Pre-exist His Birth? “Jesus IS God!”? The Name Yahweh frank the good question would be ;CAN ANY OF GODS CREATION BE EXTERMINATED OR TERMINATED ? iF GOD CAN CREATED HE WOULD BE THE ONE THAT CAN REVERSE THE PROCESS NO ? YES BUT THE END RESULTS WOULD NOT BE SOMETHING HE WANT,AND SO DO NOT TAKE THIS OPTION, Mt 10:28 Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell. the soul is what is US; Mt 16:26 What good will it be for a man if he gains the whole world, yet forfeits his soul? Or what can a man give in exchange for his soul? WHAT ??? one more thing ;you cannot lose what you do not possess you only can gain what is made available to you, Pierre Pierre, Is this your way of avoiding the question asked ? Can a spirit being die? More exactly: Can deity (a divine personage) die? If Yahshua the Messiah pre-existed as Deity, or as a Spiritual Being before the world was created, was it possible for him to die (on the tree)? frank I think you ask me if Jesus the son of God really died on the cross ?? right? Pierre

Pierre,

You are not only lost in your understanding of what Scripture truly says, but you are also lost on this forum thread, since I have never asked you “Is Jesus the son of God?”.

[terraricca]

Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Jan. 25 2012,13:53)

Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 23 2012,11:59) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Jan. 23 2012,18:09) Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 22 2012,04:34) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Jan. 22 2012,11:17) Can A Spirit Being Die? Can a spirit being die? More exactly: Can deity (a divine personage) die? If Yahshua the Messiah pre-existed as Deity, or as a Spiritual Being before the world was created, was it possible for him to die (on the tree)? Let the Scriptures answer. “And Yahshua answering said unto them, The sons of this age marry, and are given in marriage, but those who are accounted worthy to attain to that age and to the resurrection from the dead neither marry nor are given in marriage, for they cannot die any more, because they are equal to the angels; and are sons of Yahweh, being sons of the resurrection.” (Lu.20:34-36, RSV). We see that angels of Yahweh cannot die. Once resurrected we will be “equal to the angels” in that we cannot die either. Why is this? It is because we are sons of Yahweh, being sons of the resurrection. But when do we become spirit beings? Is this the same as becoming “sons of Yahweh?” “But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come? So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body.” (1Cor.15:35, 42-44). It is at the (first) resurrection that we become a spirit being – that we obtain a spiritual body. Please notice the following things that happen at the (first) resurrection: 1) We are raised in power 2) We are raised in glory 3) We are raised in incorruption 4) We are raised to immortality (1 Cor.15:52) 5) We are raised equal to the angels 6) We are raised to become sons of Yahweh, being sons of the resurrection 7) We are raised with a spiritual body 8) We are raised to immortality so we cannot die any more Luke says those of the first resurrection cannot die. Synonyms of “cannot die” are “incorruption” and “immortal.” Paul says those of the first resurrection come forth as spiritual bodies and are incorruptible and put on immortality. Accepting the statements of both Luke and Paul, we find that spirit beings cannot die. When did Yahshua become a spirit being? Again, the Scriptures have the answer. “And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam [Yahshua] was made a quickening [life-giving] spirit. Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.” (1Co.15:44-46). This indicates the Messiah was not a spirit being before he was born physically. The physical (body) comes, then the spiritual (body). When was Yahshua declared to be the son of Yahweh? Just as we will be sons of Yahweh by our resurrection from the dead, so Yahshua was declared to be the son of Yahweh “by his resurrection from the dead” (Rom.1:4). Conclusion? Once mortal man receives immortality (a spiritual body) he cannot die. Is Deity any less? We must conclude, then, that Deity cannot die – in the past, the present, or in the future. Therefore, Yahshua was not Deity nor did he exist as a spiritual being before the world existed – except in the plans of the Father – plans made from the beginning. “Who verily was foreordained [in the plans] before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,” (1Pe.1:20). * “That which is born of flesh is flesh, and that which is born of Spirit is spirit” (Jn.3:6). It is one or the other. No person can be both at the same time. Did Yahshua Create Or Pre-exist His Birth? “Jesus IS God!”? The Name Yahweh frank the good question would be ;CAN ANY OF GODS CREATION BE EXTERMINATED OR TERMINATED ? iF GOD CAN CREATED HE WOULD BE THE ONE THAT CAN REVERSE THE PROCESS NO ? YES BUT THE END RESULTS WOULD NOT BE SOMETHING HE WANT,AND SO DO NOT TAKE THIS OPTION, Mt 10:28 Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell. the soul is what is US; Mt 16:26 What good will it be for a man if he gains the whole world, yet forfeits his soul? Or what can a man give in exchange for his soul? WHAT ??? one more thing ;you cannot lose what you do not possess you only can gain what is made available to you, Pierre Pierre, Is this your way of avoiding the question asked ? Can a spirit being die? More exactly: Can deity (a divine personage) die? If Yahshua the Messiah pre-existed as Deity, or as a Spiritual Being before the world was created, was it possible for him to die (on the tree)? frank I think you ask me if Jesus the son of God really died on the cross ?? right? Pierre Pierre, You are not only lost in your understanding of what Scripture truly says, but you are also lost on this forum thread, since I have never asked you “Is Jesus the son of God?”.

frank

it seems you are lost ,and have a problem of reading quotes,and mine in particular ;

Quote

Pierre, You are not only lost in your understanding of what Scripture truly says, but you are also lost on this forum thread, since I have never asked you “Is Jesus the son of God?”.

SO WHERE IS IT THAT “I ASK YOU “IS JESUS THE SON OF GOD” ?

Pierre

[terraricca]

frank

if this is the way you are study the word of God ,I do then understand why you have the knowledge you have and preach

Pierre

[Frank4YAHWEH]

Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 25 2012,06:58)

Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Jan. 25 2012,13:53) Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 23 2012,11:59) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Jan. 23 2012,18:09) Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 22 2012,04:34) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Jan. 22 2012,11:17) Can A Spirit Being Die? Can a spirit being die? More exactly: Can deity (a divine personage) die? If Yahshua the Messiah pre-existed as Deity, or as a Spiritual Being before the world was created, was it possible for him to die (on the tree)? Let the Scriptures answer. “And Yahshua answering said unto them, The sons of this age marry, and are given in marriage, but those who are accounted worthy to attain to that age and to the resurrection from the dead neither marry nor are given in marriage, for they cannot die any more, because they are equal to the angels; and are sons of Yahweh, being sons of the resurrection.” (Lu.20:34-36, RSV). We see that angels of Yahweh cannot die. Once resurrected we will be “equal to the angels” in that we cannot die either. Why is this? It is because we are sons of Yahweh, being sons of the resurrection. But when do we become spirit beings? Is this the same as becoming “sons of Yahweh?” “But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come? So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body.” (1Cor.15:35, 42-44). It is at the (first) resurrection that we become a spirit being – that we obtain a spiritual body. Please notice the following things that happen at the (first) resurrection: 1) We are raised in power 2) We are raised in glory 3) We are raised in incorruption 4) We are raised to immortality (1 Cor.15:52) 5) We are raised equal to the angels 6) We are raised to become sons of Yahweh, being sons of the resurrection 7) We are raised with a spiritual body 8) We are raised to immortality so we cannot die any more Luke says those of the first resurrection cannot die. Synonyms of “cannot die” are “incorruption” and “immortal.” Paul says those of the first resurrection come forth as spiritual bodies and are incorruptible and put on immortality. Accepting the statements of both Luke and Paul, we find that spirit beings cannot die. When did Yahshua become a spirit being? Again, the Scriptures have the answer. “And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam [Yahshua] was made a quickening [life-giving] spirit. Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.” (1Co.15:44-46). This indicates the Messiah was not a spirit being before he was born physically. The physical (body) comes, then the spiritual (body). When was Yahshua declared to be the son of Yahweh? Just as we will be sons of Yahweh by our resurrection from the dead, so Yahshua was declared to be the son of Yahweh “by his resurrection from the dead” (Rom.1:4). Conclusion? Once mortal man receives immortality (a spiritual body) he cannot die. Is Deity any less? We must conclude, then, that Deity cannot die – in the past, the present, or in the future. Therefore, Yahshua was not Deity nor did he exist as a spiritual being before the world existed – except in the plans of the Father – plans made from the beginning. “Who verily was foreordained [in the plans] before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,” (1Pe.1:20). * “That which is born of flesh is flesh, and that which is born of Spirit is spirit” (Jn.3:6). It is one or the other. No person can be both at the same time. Did Yahshua Create Or Pre-exist His Birth? “Jesus IS God!”? The Name Yahweh frank the good question would be ;CAN ANY OF GODS CREATION BE EXTERMINATED OR TERMINATED ? iF GOD CAN CREATED HE WOULD BE THE ONE THAT CAN REVERSE THE PROCESS NO ? YES BUT THE END RESULTS WOULD NOT BE SOMETHING HE WANT,AND SO DO NOT TAKE THIS OPTION, Mt 10:28 Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell. the soul is what is US; Mt 16:26 What good will it be for a man if he gains the whole world, yet forfeits his soul? Or what can a man give in exchange for his soul? WHAT ??? one more thing ;you cannot lose what you do not possess you only can gain what is made available to you, Pierre Pierre, Is this your way of avoiding the question asked ? Can a spirit being die? More exactly: Can deity (a divine personage) die? If Yahshua the Messiah pre-existed as Deity, or as a Spiritual Being before the world was created, was it possible for him to die (on the tree)? frank I think you ask me if Jesus the son of God really died on the cross ?? right? Pierre Pierre, You are not only lost in your understanding of what Scripture truly says, but you are also lost on this forum thread, since I have never asked you “Is Jesus the son of God?”. frank it seems you are lost ,and have a problem of reading quotes,and mine in particular ; Quote Pierre, You are not only lost in your understanding of what Scripture truly says, but you are also lost on this forum thread, since I have never asked you “Is Jesus the son of God?”. SO WHERE IS IT THAT “I ASK YOU “IS JESUS THE SON OF GOD” ? Pierre

Pierre,

Following is an exact copy and paste of what you posted:

“frank

I think
you ask me if Jesus the son of God really died on the cross ?? right?

Pierre”

No, you did not ask me this, but you did ask me this in your post that followed your asking me this.

So, you are the one who is lost in what it is that you post on this forum thread.

[Frank4YAHWEH]

Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Jan. 25 2012,07:06)

Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 25 2012,06:58) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Jan. 25 2012,13:53) Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 23 2012,11:59) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Jan. 23 2012,18:09) Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 22 2012,04:34) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Jan. 22 2012,11:17) Can A Spirit Being Die? Can a spirit being die? More exactly: Can deity (a divine personage) die? If Yahshua the Messiah pre-existed as Deity, or as a Spiritual Being before the world was created, was it possible for him to die (on the tree)? Let the Scriptures answer. “And Yahshua answering said unto them, The sons of this age marry, and are given in marriage, but those who are accounted worthy to attain to that age and to the resurrection from the dead neither marry nor are given in marriage, for they cannot die any more, because they are equal to the angels; and are sons of Yahweh, being sons of the resurrection.” (Lu.20:34-36, RSV). We see that angels of Yahweh cannot die. Once resurrected we will be “equal to the angels” in that we cannot die either. Why is this? It is because we are sons of Yahweh, being sons of the resurrection. But when do we become spirit beings? Is this the same as becoming “sons of Yahweh?” “But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come? So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body.” (1Cor.15:35, 42-44). It is at the (first) resurrection that we become a spirit being – that we obtain a spiritual body. Please notice the following things that happen at the (first) resurrection: 1) We are raised in power 2) We are raised in glory 3) We are raised in incorruption 4) We are raised to immortality (1 Cor.15:52) 5) We are raised equal to the angels 6) We are raised to become sons of Yahweh, being sons of the resurrection 7) We are raised with a spiritual body 8) We are raised to immortality so we cannot die any more Luke says those of the first resurrection cannot die. Synonyms of “cannot die” are “incorruption” and “immortal.” Paul says those of the first resurrection come forth as spiritual bodies and are incorruptible and put on immortality. Accepting the statements of both Luke and Paul, we find that spirit beings cannot die. When did Yahshua become a spirit being? Again, the Scriptures have the answer. “And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam [Yahshua] was made a quickening [life-giving] spirit. Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.” (1Co.15:44-46). This indicates the Messiah was not a spirit being before he was born physically. The physical (body) comes, then the spiritual (body). When was Yahshua declared to be the son of Yahweh? Just as we will be sons of Yahweh by our resurrection from the dead, so Yahshua was declared to be the son of Yahweh “by his resurrection from the dead” (Rom.1:4). Conclusion? Once mortal man receives immortality (a spiritual body) he cannot die. Is Deity any less? We must conclude, then, that Deity cannot die – in the past, the present, or in the future. Therefore, Yahshua was not Deity nor did he exist as a spiritual being before the world existed – except in the plans of the Father – plans made from the beginning. “Who verily was foreordained [in the plans] before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,” (1Pe.1:20). * “That which is born of flesh is flesh, and that which is born of Spirit is spirit” (Jn.3:6). It is one or the other. No person can be both at the same time. Did Yahshua Create Or Pre-exist His Birth? “Jesus IS God!”? The Name Yahweh frank the good question would be ;CAN ANY OF GODS CREATION BE EXTERMINATED OR TERMINATED ? iF GOD CAN CREATED HE WOULD BE THE ONE THAT CAN REVERSE THE PROCESS NO ? YES BUT THE END RESULTS WOULD NOT BE SOMETHING HE WANT,AND SO DO NOT TAKE THIS OPTION, Mt 10:28 Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell. the soul is what is US; Mt 16:26 What good will it be for a man if he gains the whole world, yet forfeits his soul? Or what can a man give in exchange for his soul? WHAT ??? one more thing ;you cannot lose what you do not possess you only can gain what is made available to you, Pierre Pierre, Is this your way of avoiding the question asked ? Can a spirit being die? More exactly: Can deity (a divine personage) die? If Yahshua the Messiah pre-existed as Deity, or as a Spiritual Being before the world was created, was it possible for him to die (on the tree)? frank I think you ask me if Jesus the son of God really died on the cross ?? right? Pierre Pierre, You are not only lost in your understanding of what Scripture truly says, but you are also lost on this forum thread, since I have never asked you “Is Jesus the son of God?”. frank it seems you are lost ,and have a problem of reading quotes,and mine in particular ; Quote Pierre, You are not only lost in your understanding of what Scripture truly says, but you are also lost on this forum thread, since I have never asked you “Is Jesus the son of God?”. SO WHERE IS IT THAT “I ASK YOU “IS JESUS THE SON OF GOD” ? Pierre Pierre, Following is an exact copy and paste of what you posted: “frank I think you ask me if Jesus the son of God really died on the cross ?? right? Pierre” No, you did not ask me this, but you did ask me this in your post that followed your asking me this. So, you are the one who is lost in what it is that you post on this forum thread.

Pierre,

I stand corrected! I did not ask you: “[Did] Jesus the son of God really died on the cross?”

In this you are lost, since I never asked you this either.

[terraricca]

Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Jan. 25 2012,14:12)

Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Jan. 25 2012,07:06) Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 25 2012,06:58) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Jan. 25 2012,13:53) Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 23 2012,11:59) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Jan. 23 2012,18:09) Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 22 2012,04:34) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Jan. 22 2012,11:17) Can A Spirit Being Die? Can a spirit being die? More exactly: Can deity (a divine personage) die? If Yahshua the Messiah pre-existed as Deity, or as a Spiritual Being before the world was created, was it possible for him to die (on the tree)? Let the Scriptures answer. “And Yahshua answering said unto them, The sons of this age marry, and are given in marriage, but those who are accounted worthy to attain to that age and to the resurrection from the dead neither marry nor are given in marriage, for they cannot die any more, because they are equal to the angels; and are sons of Yahweh, being sons of the resurrection.” (Lu.20:34-36, RSV). We see that angels of Yahweh cannot die. Once resurrected we will be “equal to the angels” in that we cannot die either. Why is this? It is because we are sons of Yahweh, being sons of the resurrection. But when do we become spirit beings? Is this the same as becoming “sons of Yahweh?” “But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come? So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body.” (1Cor.15:35, 42-44). It is at the (first) resurrection that we become a spirit being – that we obtain a spiritual body. Please notice the following things that happen at the (first) resurrection: 1) We are raised in power 2) We are raised in glory 3) We are raised in incorruption 4) We are raised to immortality (1 Cor.15:52) 5) We are raised equal to the angels 6) We are raised to become sons of Yahweh, being sons of the resurrection 7) We are raised with a spiritual body 8) We are raised to immortality so we cannot die any more Luke says those of the first resurrection cannot die. Synonyms of “cannot die” are “incorruption” and “immortal.” Paul says those of the first resurrection come forth as spiritual bodies and are incorruptible and put on immortality. Accepting the statements of both Luke and Paul, we find that spirit beings cannot die. When did Yahshua become a spirit being? Again, the Scriptures have the answer. “And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam [Yahshua] was made a quickening [life-giving] spirit. Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.” (1Co.15:44-46). This indicates the Messiah was not a spirit being before he was born physically. The physical (body) comes, then the spiritual (body). When was Yahshua declared to be the son of Yahweh? Just as we will be sons of Yahweh by our resurrection from the dead, so Yahshua was declared to be the son of Yahweh “by his resurrection from the dead” (Rom.1:4). Conclusion? Once mortal man receives immortality (a spiritual body) he cannot die. Is Deity any less? We must conclude, then, that Deity cannot die – in the past, the present, or in the future. Therefore, Yahshua was not Deity nor did he exist as a spiritual being before the world existed – except in the plans of the Father – plans made from the beginning. “Who verily was foreordained [in the plans] before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,” (1Pe.1:20). * “That which is born of flesh is flesh, and that which is born of Spirit is spirit” (Jn.3:6). It is one or the other. No person can be both at the same time. Did Yahshua Create Or Pre-exist His Birth? “Jesus IS God!”? The Name Yahweh frank the good question would be ;CAN ANY OF GODS CREATION BE EXTERMINATED OR TERMINATED ? iF GOD CAN CREATED HE WOULD BE THE ONE THAT CAN REVERSE THE PROCESS NO ? YES BUT THE END RESULTS WOULD NOT BE SOMETHING HE WANT,AND SO DO NOT TAKE THIS OPTION, Mt 10:28 Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell. the soul is what is US; Mt 16:26 What good will it be for a man if he gains the whole world, yet forfeits his soul? Or what can a man give in exchange for his soul? WHAT ??? one more thing ;you cannot lose what you do not possess you only can gain what is made available to you, Pierre Pierre, Is this your way of avoiding the question asked ? Can a spirit being die? More exactly: Can deity (a divine personage) die? If Yahshua the Messiah pre-existed as Deity, or as a Spiritual Being before the world was created, was it possible for him to die (on the tree)? frank I think you ask me if Jesus the son of God really died on the cross ?? right? Pierre Pierre, You are not only lost in your understanding of what Scripture truly says, but you are also lost on this forum thread, since I have never asked you “Is Jesus the son of God?”. frank it seems you are lost ,and have a problem of reading quotes,and mine in particular ; Quote Pierre, You are not only lost in your understanding of what Scripture truly says, but you are also lost on this forum thread, since I have never asked you “Is Jesus the son of God?”. SO WHERE IS IT THAT “I ASK YOU “IS JESUS THE SON OF GOD” ? Pierre Pierre, Following is an exact copy and paste of what you posted: “frank I think you ask me if Jesus the son of God really died on the cross ?? right? Pierre” No, you did not ask me this, but you did ask me this in your post that followed your asking me this. So, you are the one who is lost in what it is that you post on this forum thread. Pierre, I stand corrected! I did not ask you: “[Did] Jesus the son of God really died on the cross?” In this you are lost, since I never asked you this either.

frank

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