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Quote (Pastry @ Jan. 08 2012,02:16) Frank. don't know if Mike ever ask you who Almighty Gods only begotten Son is? There is a pretty good description of who He is in
Rev 19:13 And he [was] clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.Rev 19:14 And the armies [which were] in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
Rev 19:16 And he hath on [his] vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
and
Jhn 1:14 ¶ And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
As far as Mike and those who go by Scriptures believe this is who we call Jesus…..there is no other being that I know of that does….so your accusation is very much uncalled for…..Irene
PS the reason I have not come here as often as i did before is because of all the nonsense you and some others have dished out…..
also we have 15 different translations of the Bible and all of them say about the same then the KJV does… as far as my Husband knows, and I believe He is very knowledgeable, believes that the Ryie of KJ and the KJ are closest to the original transcripts…
Irene,I do not “dish out nonsense”. I believe and confess that Yahshua (“Jesus”) is the Messiah (“Christ”) the son of the living Yahweh as the so-called “New Testament” ask me to believe and confess. Nowhere in this section of Scripture am I ever asked to believe and confess “Jesus IS God!” or that the Messiah pre-existed his birth as an actual being and was with his and our Father Yahweh in the beginning. Yahshua never once is recorded as proclaiming or SAYING “I am God!”. I am also never asked in this section of Scripture to believe and confess that Yahshua was a creator or a co-creator with his and our Father Yahweh in the beginning. I believe as Scripture instructs me to believe and confess and that is that Father Yahweh “ALONE” created the heavens and the earth and ALL THING IN THEM and that there was “NO OTHER MIGHTY ONE ('El') beside [Him]” and that there was no Redeemer beside Him at that time. Yahshua is never recorded in the so-called “New Testament” as proclaiming or SAYING that he had created ANYTHING. In fact, Father Yahweh's son Yahshua is recorded as crediting his and our Father Yahweh for doing the creating.
Nowhere in Scripture does it ever SAY “Yahshua (“Jesus”) IS the Word (personified).” and that he pre-existed his birth as the “Word” (personified) as a separate being apart from his and our Father Yahweh in the beginning as you and you cronies erroneously teach.
As far as the KJV of Scripture is concerned, it is well known that scholars believe that it is riddled with error, since King James' men at that time had few manuscripts to translate from. I latter time more ancient manuscripts have been discovered that have given us more accurate sources to translate from. With the discovery of these more ancient and reliable manuscripts it has been found that many additions have been added that were not in these more ancient manuscripts. This is why you find in more modern translations footnotes saying in reference to certain words, verses, parts of verses, and even entire passages such things as “Not found in the most ancient manuscripts. These are obviously telling of many additions to latter manuscripts.
I have some 35+ diverse translations of Scripture in my personal home library and MANY more translations that are available to me on the internet that I give reference to.
If you feel that what I study, read, teach, and have learned in accordance with Scripture is “nonsense”, then I can only suggest to you that you no longer read my posts or respond to me concerning my posts.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 08 2012,05:04) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Jan. 06 2012,17:04) Did I ever say that I thought that the JWs were the first to use “Jehovah”? NO! No, I do not think that they are the only ones who do use “Jehovah”. I also do not want to be associated with any others who use “Jehovah”. Frank, I repeat: The site you linked me to says the actual pronunciation has been lost, and that “Yahweh” is their best guess.
My point is: How can you be so dead set against “Jehovah” and so convinced of “Yahweh” when your own site says, Uh, we don't really know how the name was pronounced?
Mike,Again, You have half-ass read what is on my web page. I guess you conveniently missed the sources that I posted on my site that also say that the pronunciation was never lost and the disclaimer that I have posted on all of my web sites and pages. Following are excerpts from the web page that I gave a link to:
His Name Is Yahweh!
Notice what The Jewish Encyclopedia of 1901, Volume 12, page 119, states.
It thus becomes possible to determine with a fair degree of certainty the historical pronunciation of the Tetragrammaton, the results agreeing with the statement of Ex. iii. 14, in which YHWH terms Himself hyha. “I will be”, a phrase which is immediately proceeded by the fuller term “I will be that I will be,” or, as in the English versions, “I am” and “I am that I am.” The name hwhy is accordingly derived from the root hwh (=hyh), and is regarded as an imperfect. This passage is decisive for the pronunciation “Yahweh”; for the etymology was undoubtedly based on the known word.
The Encyclopedia Judaica, Volume 7, page 680, further states this fact.
The true pronunciation of the name YHWH was never lost. Several early Greek writers of the Christian Church testify that the name was pronounced “Yahweh”. This is confirmed, at least for the vowel of the first syllable of the name, by the shorter form Yah, which is sometimes used in poetry (e.g., Ex. 15:2) and the -yahu or -yah that serves as the final syllable in very many Hebrew names.
“After the death of the high priest Simeon the Righteous [270 B. C.] the priests ceased to pronounce the Name (Yoma 39b), From that time the pronunciation of the Name was prohibited. “Whoever pronounces the Name forfeits his portion in the future world” (Sauh. xi. 1).” (The Jewish Encyclopedia, vol. 9: pp. l62-l63).
Because of the deceptive vowel points, the name Yahweh became Yehowah. The Latin spelling of this new name was Iehovah (later Jehovah, pronounced Yehowah). “Jehovah” is generally held to be the invention of Pope Leo X's confessor, Peter Galatin “[De Arcanis Catholisae Veritatis, 1518, folio xliii.].” (The Jewish Encyclopedia, vol. 7: p. 88).
Jehovah: English transliteration of the Divine name, based on a misunderstanding of the Hebrew text, which should probably be read Yahweh. (The Concise Jewish Encyclopedia, p. 277).
… commonly represented in modern translations by the form “Jehovah”, which, however is a philological impossibility. (The Jewish Encyclopedia, vol. 9: p. 160).
Also see: Jewish Encyclopedia:
The Shem ha-Meforash, the “distinctive name,” YHWH (Yahweh) was considered so sacred that the privilege of learning its pronunciation became reserved to a chosen few, “a small number of esoteric “elect” of heaven.” (The Book of Jewish Knowledge, p. 401).
My Disclaimer:
DISCLAIMER: As mentioned on my other web sites and pages, I do not espouse to all of the beliefs expressed on the reciprocal links I have provided here. My web sites are a venture into the pros and cons of diverse aspects of religious beliefs. I leave it completely up to each individual to decide what is truth and what is not. I am also not responsible for any cost or donation purchases that are made through these links. These reciprocal links are purely for educational and research purpose only. Please view these links at your own discretion.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 08 2012,05:06) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Jan. 06 2012,17:07) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 07 2012,09:49) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Jan. 06 2012,10:22) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 06 2012,12:11) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Jan. 04 2012,20:53) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 05 2012,13:45) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Jan. 04 2012,20:00) Yahshua's title was the word of Yahweh simply because he was the spokesman of his and our Father Yahweh's word in this last time period as Hebrews 1:1-2 makes perfectly clear.
By golly, I think you've got it Frank!
Now tell me why that title coudn't have been used of him in the gospel by the same author?
We know the “Word” in John 1 refers to “the Word of God”, right? (Because who else's word would John be talking about?)
So if John called Jesus by what you ADMIT is Jesus' title in Rev 19:13, then why in the world would it be so hard for you to believe the same author called Jesus by the same title in his other book?
Mike,Yahchanan [John] does not say “… and the word was Jesus.”
Nor does he say the rider of the white horse was “Jesus”; yet you know and admit that it is, right?Go on………………
Mike,As you well know, I believe that Father Yahweh's word is in fact Father Yahweh's word and that Yahchanan was not giving reference to Father Yahweh's word as a separate being that pre-existed with Him in the beginning.
Yes Frank,We all know what you believe. I'm asking you if “John didn't say the name Jesus” is an adequate reason for dismissing Jesus as the Word in John 1:1, 14.
John didn't say the name Jesus in Rev 19:13, and yet you know it speaks of Jesus, right? So why would that be your reason for dismissing Jesus from being the Word of God in the gospel written by the same author?
Do you at least see how your “John didn't SAY Jesus, so there!” argument doesn't really hold up under scrutiny?
Mike,Simply because Yahchanan never said “Jesus is the word.” as you erroneously believe and teach.
Are we just going around in circles here, Frank?John also didn't say “Jesus is the Word” in Rev 19:13, yet you KNOW he was talking about the Word being Jesus, right?
Mike,Yes, it is you that is taking us around in circles, since you refuse to listen to, read and understand what I have posted.
No, Yahchanan NEVER is recorded as saying “Jesus IS the Word (personified with capitalization)!”
Frank, the Word/Logos is capitilazed in John 1:1.
In the beginning was the Word.
The Word was with the God……..
The Word became flesh and dwelt among us……..
Jesus came in the flesh……..The Book of John is all about Jesus and it starts with the Word and tells us that the Word became flesh, and that is Jesus.
Now that Jesus is back in the glory that he had with the Father before the world began, he wears a title, the Word of God.
This is what we believe all the while we also acknowledge that God possess logos as an attribute in himself. We are not confused between an attribute of God and another person who possesses the same attribute that our generous God gives in abundance. The second century apostles wrote that it was like a torch that produces another torch which means that the fire was not lessened in the first torch. They also call the Logos the first work of the Father.
You refuse to see the full scope of who Jesus is and as a result you also cannot see the full price that God paid for us. You think that God zapped a new human being and paid that for a price, when in actual fact, he sacrificed the one whom had glory with him even before all things were made.
God made all things though him and God redeemed all things through him. This is not only scriptural , but it even makes logical sense and thus is not hard to understand at all.
Quote (t8 @ Jan. 08 2012,06:17) Frank, the Word/Logos is capitilazed in John 1:1. In the beginning was the Word.
The Word was with the God……..
The Word became flesh and dwelt among us……..
Jesus came in the flesh……..The Book of John is all about Jesus and it starts with the Word and tells us that the Word became flesh, and that is Jesus.
Now that Jesus is back in the glory that he had with the Father before the world began, he wears a title, the Word of God.
This is what we believe all the while we also acknowledge that God possess logos as an attribute in himself. We are not confused between an attribute of God and another person who possesses the same attribute that our generous God gives in abundance. The second century apostles wrote that it was like a torch that produces another torch which means that the fire was not lessened in the first torch. They also call the Logos the first work of the Father.
You refuse to see the full scope of who Jesus is and as a result you also cannot see the full price that God paid for us. You think that God zapped a new human being and paid that for a price, when in actual fact, he sacrificed the one whom had glory with him even before all things were made.
God made all things though him and God redeemed all things through him. This is not only scriptural , but it even makes logical sense and thus is not hard to understand at all.
t8,The Greek word 'logos' is not capitalized. The Trinitarian translators chose to capitalize the word 'word' to personify and promote their “Triune God”. Yahchanan NEVER said “The word of Yahweh was Jesus”.
Quote (t8 @ Jan. 08 2012,06:17) Frank, the Word/Logos is capitilazed in John 1:1. In the beginning was the Word.
The Word was with the God……..
The Word became flesh and dwelt among us……..
Jesus came in the flesh……..The Book of John is all about Jesus and it starts with the Word and tells us that the Word became flesh, and that is Jesus.
Now that Jesus is back in the glory that he had with the Father before the world began, he wears a title, the Word of God.
This is what we believe all the while we also acknowledge that God possess logos as an attribute in himself. We are not confused between an attribute of God and another person who possesses the same attribute that our generous God gives in abundance. The second century apostles wrote that it was like a torch that produces another torch which means that the fire was not lessened in the first torch. They also call the Logos the first work of the Father.
You refuse to see the full scope of who Jesus is and as a result you also cannot see the full price that God paid for us. You think that God zapped a new human being and paid that for a price, when in actual fact, he sacrificed the one whom had glory with him even before all things were made.
God made all things though him and God redeemed all things through him. This is not only scriptural , but it even makes logical sense and thus is not hard to understand at all.
t8,Following you will find why Yahchanan wrote what he wrote:
But these are written that you may believe that Yahshua is the Messiah, the son of Yahweh, and that by believing you may have life in his name (Yahchanan 20-31).
I write these things to you who believe in the name of the son of Yahweh so that you may know that you have eternal life (1 Yahchanan 5:13).
In accordance with the above verses from what Yahchanan wrote is what I believe and confess!
No, Yahchanan did not write these things that we might believe that Yahshua pre-existed his birth and was Father Yahweh's word in the beginning or that he was “God”!
To: ALL:
If anyone acknowledges that Yahshua is the son of Yahweh, Yahweh lives in him and he in Yahweh (1 Yahchanan 4:15).
I confess and believe what Kepha confessed and believed as to who Yahshua was and is. Flesh and blood (man) did not reveal this truth to him, but it was Father Yahweh Who is in Heaven Who revealed this to him.
Simon Kepha answered, “You are the Messiah, the son of the living Yahweh.” And Yahshua answered and said unto him, Blessed are you, Simon Bar Yahnah: for flesh and blood has not revealed this unto you, but my Father which is in Heaven (Mattithyah [Matthew] 16:16-17).
Nowhere in Scripture am I ever asked to acknowledge, confess and believe that Yahshua pre-existed his birth and that he was the word of Yahweh in the beginning with Yahweh or that he was “God”!
Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Jan. 07 2012,12:52) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 08 2012,05:06) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Jan. 06 2012,17:07) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 07 2012,09:49) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Jan. 06 2012,10:22) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 06 2012,12:11) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Jan. 04 2012,20:53) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 05 2012,13:45) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Jan. 04 2012,20:00) Yahshua's title was the word of Yahweh simply because he was the spokesman of his and our Father Yahweh's word in this last time period as Hebrews 1:1-2 makes perfectly clear.
By golly, I think you've got it Frank!Now tell me why that title coudn't have been used of him in the gospel by the same author?
We know the “Word” in John 1 refers to “the Word of God”, right? (Because who else's word would John be talking about?)
So if John called Jesus by what you ADMIT is Jesus' title in Rev 19:13, then why in the world would it be so hard for you to believe the same author called Jesus by the same title in his other book?
Mike,Yahchanan [John] does not say “… and the word was Jesus.”
Nor does he say the rider of the white horse was “Jesus”; yet you know and admit that it is, right?Go on………………
Mike,As you well know, I believe that Father Yahweh's word is in fact Father Yahweh's word and that Yahchanan was not giving reference to Father Yahweh's word as a separate being that pre-existed with Him in the beginning.
Yes Frank,We all know what you believe. I'm asking you if “John didn't say the name Jesus” is an adequate reason for dismissing Jesus as the Word in John 1:1, 14.
John didn't say the name Jesus in Rev 19:13, and yet you know it speaks of Jesus, right? So why would that be your reason for dismissing Jesus from being the Word of God in the gospel written by the same author?
Do you at least see how your “John didn't SAY Jesus, so there!” argument doesn't really hold up under scrutiny?
Mike,Simply because Yahchanan never said “Jesus is the word.” as you erroneously believe and teach.
Are we just going around in circles here, Frank?John also didn't say “Jesus is the Word” in Rev 19:13, yet you KNOW he was talking about the Word being Jesus, right?
No, Yahchanan NEVER is recorded as saying “Jesus IS the Word (personified with capitalization)!”
Yet you believe that the word of god in Rev 19:13 IS jesus, right? Even DESPITE the fact that John didn't specifically write “The word of god is jesus” in Rev 19:13, YOU STILL KNOW HE SPEAKS OF JESUS, RIGHT?(There, I uncapitalized all the personified words for you, despite the fact that in the Greek texts, all letters were capped.)
Frank, here is the bottom line:
FRANK BELIEVES JOHN SPEAKS OF JESUS IN REV 19:13, DESPITE THE FACT THAT JOHN DOESN'T SPECIFICALLY MENTION THAT JESUS IS THE ONE CALLED THE WORD OF GOD IN THAT VERSE.
BUT……………FRANK WILL NONSENSICALLY THEN TRY TO USE THAT VERY ARGUMENT TO EXCLUDE JESUS FROM BEING THE SAME WORD OF GOD MENTIONED IN JOHN 1:1 AND 14 – DESPITE THE FACT THAT THE WORD MENTIONED THERE IS THE ONE WHO BECAME FLESH, DWELLED AMONG US, AND HAD THE GLORY OF GOD'S ONLY BEGOTTEN SON.
Now Frank, correct me if what I've stated above is wrong. And show me which exact words I posted that are wrong.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 08 2012,07:34) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Jan. 07 2012,12:52) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 08 2012,05:06) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Jan. 06 2012,17:07) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 07 2012,09:49) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Jan. 06 2012,10:22) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 06 2012,12:11) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Jan. 04 2012,20:53) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 05 2012,13:45) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Jan. 04 2012,20:00) Yahshua's title was the word of Yahweh simply because he was the spokesman of his and our Father Yahweh's word in this last time period as Hebrews 1:1-2 makes perfectly clear.
By golly, I think you've got it Frank!Now tell me why that title coudn't have been used of him in the gospel by the same author?
We know the “Word” in John 1 refers to “the Word of God”, right? (Because who else's word would John be talking about?)
So if John called Jesus by what you ADMIT is Jesus' title in Rev 19:13, then why in the world would it be so hard for you to believe the same author called Jesus by the same title in his other book?
Mike,Yahchanan [John] does not say “… and the word was Jesus.”
Nor does he say the rider of the white horse was “Jesus”; yet you know and admit that it is, right?Go on………………
Mike,As you well know, I believe that Father Yahweh's word is in fact Father Yahweh's word and that Yahchanan was not giving reference to Father Yahweh's word as a separate being that pre-existed with Him in the beginning.
Yes Frank,We all know what you believe. I'm asking you if “John didn't say the name Jesus” is an adequate reason for dismissing Jesus as the Word in John 1:1, 14.
John didn't say the name Jesus in Rev 19:13, and yet you know it speaks of Jesus, right? So why would that be your reason for dismissing Jesus from being the Word of God in the gospel written by the same author?
Do you at least see how your “John didn't SAY Jesus, so there!” argument doesn't really hold up under scrutiny?
Mike,Simply because Yahchanan never said “Jesus is the word.” as you erroneously believe and teach.
Are we just going around in circles here, Frank?John also didn't say “Jesus is the Word” in Rev 19:13, yet you KNOW he was talking about the Word being Jesus, right?
No, Yahchanan NEVER is recorded as saying “Jesus IS the Word (personified with capitalization)!”
Yet you believe that the word of god in Rev 19:13 IS jesus, right? Even DESPITE the fact that John didn't specifically write “The word of god is jesus” in Rev 19:13, YOU STILL KNOW HE SPEAKS OF JESUS, RIGHT?(There, I uncapitalized all the personified words for you, despite the fact that in the Greek texts, all letters were capped.)
Frank, here is the bottom line:
FRANK BELIEVES JOHN SPEAKS OF JESUS IN REV 19:13, DESPITE THE FACT THAT JOHN DOESN'T SPECIFICALLY MENTION THAT JESUS IS THE ONE CALLED THE WORD OF GOD IN THAT VERSE.
BUT……………FRANK WILL NONSENSICALLY THEN TRY TO USE THAT VERY ARGUMENT TO EXCLUDE JESUS FROM BEING THE SAME WORD OF GOD MENTIONED IN JOHN 1:1 AND 14 – DESPITE THE FACT THAT THE WORD MENTIONED THERE IS THE ONE WHO BECAME FLESH, DWELLED AMONG US, AND HAD THE GLORY OF GOD'S ONLY BEGOTTEN SON.
Now Frank, correct me if what I've stated above is wrong. And show me which exact words I posted that are wrong.
Mike,No, I do not believe that Yahweh's word is Yahshua! Father Yahweh's word is just that, His word! Again, Yahchanan NEVER SAID “Jesus IS the Word!” NOWHERE in ANY TRANSLATION of Scripture will you ever find Yahchanan making such a false, foolish, deceptive, and demonic statement as this!
Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Jan. 07 2012,14:56) No, I do not believe that Yahweh's word is Yahshua! Father Yahweh's word is just that, His word!
And how then do you explain 1:14, Frank? Did Jehovah's word BECOME flesh? How does that work?Did Jehovah's word DWELL among men? What does that mean?
Did Jehovah's word have the glory of God's only begotten? What would that mean?
Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Jan. 08 2012,14:56) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 08 2012,07:34) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Jan. 07 2012,12:52) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 08 2012,05:06) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Jan. 06 2012,17:07) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 07 2012,09:49) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Jan. 06 2012,10:22) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 06 2012,12:11) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Jan. 04 2012,20:53) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 05 2012,13:45) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Jan. 04 2012,20:00) Yahshua's title was the word of Yahweh simply because he was the spokesman of his and our Father Yahweh's word in this last time period as Hebrews 1:1-2 makes perfectly clear.
By golly, I think you've got it Frank!Now tell me why that title coudn't have been used of him in the gospel by the same author?
We know the “Word” in John 1 refers to “the Word of God”, right? (Because who else's word would John be talking about?)
So if John called Jesus by what you ADMIT is Jesus' title in Rev 19:13, then why in the world would it be so hard for you to believe the same author called Jesus by the same title in his other book?
Mike,Yahchanan [John] does not say “… and the word was Jesus.”
Nor does he say the rider of the white horse was “Jesus”; yet you know and admit that it is, right?Go on………………
Mike,As you well know, I believe that Father Yahweh's word is in fact Father Yahweh's word and that Yahchanan was not giving reference to Father Yahweh's word as a separate being that pre-existed with Him in the beginning.
Yes Frank,We all know what you believe. I'm asking you if “John didn't say the name Jesus” is an adequate reason for dismissing Jesus as the Word in John 1:1, 14.
John didn't say the name Jesus in Rev 19:13, and yet you know it speaks of Jesus, right? So why would that be your reason for dismissing Jesus from being the Word of God in the gospel written by the same author?
Do you at least see how your “John didn't SAY Jesus, so there!” argument doesn't really hold up under scrutiny?
Mike,Simply because Yahchanan never said “Jesus is the word.” as you erroneously believe and teach.
Are we just going around in circles here, Frank?John also didn't say “Jesus is the Word” in Rev 19:13, yet you KNOW he was talking about the Word being Jesus, right?
No, Yahchanan NEVER is recorded as saying “Jesus IS the Word (personified with capitalization)!”
Yet you believe that the word of god in Rev 19:13 IS jesus, right? Even DESPITE the fact that John didn't specifically write “The word of god is jesus” in Rev 19:13, YOU STILL KNOW HE SPEAKS OF JESUS, RIGHT?(There, I uncapitalized all the personified words for you, despite the fact that in the Greek texts, all letters were capped.)
Frank, here is the bottom line:
FRANK BELIEVES JOHN SPEAKS OF JESUS IN REV 19:13, DESPITE THE FACT THAT JOHN DOESN'T SPECIFICALLY MENTION THAT JESUS IS THE ONE CALLED THE WORD OF GOD IN THAT VERSE.
BUT……………FRANK WILL NONSENSICALLY THEN TRY TO USE THAT VERY ARGUMENT TO EXCLUDE JESUS FROM BEING THE SAME WORD OF GOD MENTIONED IN JOHN 1:1 AND 14 – DESPITE THE FACT THAT THE WORD MENTIONED THERE IS THE ONE WHO BECAME FLESH, DWELLED AMONG US, AND HAD THE GLORY OF GOD'S ONLY BEGOTTEN SON.
Now Frank, correct me if what I've stated above is wrong. And show me which exact words I posted that are wrong.
Mike,No, I do not believe that Yahweh's word is Yahshua! Father Yahweh's word is just that, His word! Again, Yahchanan NEVER SAID “Jesus IS the Word!” NOWHERE in ANY TRANSLATION of Scripture will you ever find Yahchanan making such a false, foolish, deceptive, and demonic statement as this!
frankQuote No, I do not believe that Yahweh's word is Yahshua! is it not this type of believes that separate us all ,the big “I”
“the big ME” God is secondary to the big “I” and “ME”this is how the Pharisees where talking to Christ ;WE know”WE believe ,WE have Moses,WE have Abraham for father WE,WE, the big WE” where God is reduced to a stand buyer ,
how many people did they deceived
? manyPierre
Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 07 2012,18:15) this is how the Pharisees where talking to Christ ;WE know”WE believe ,WE have Moses,WE have Abraham for father WE,WE, the big WE” where God is reduced to a stand buyer ,
Pierre,Your point is excellent. Your English, not so much.
The term is “bystander”, not “stand buyer”. A stand buyer would be someone who purchases stands. Your friend,
mikeQuote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 08 2012,08:08) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Jan. 07 2012,14:56) No, I do not believe that Yahweh's word is Yahshua! Father Yahweh's word is just that, His word!
And how then do you explain 1:14, Frank? Did Jehovah's word BECOME flesh? How does that work?Did Jehovah's word DWELL among men? What does that mean?
Did Jehovah's word have the glory of God's only begotten? What would that mean?
Hi Mike:This has already explained to you. The Logos is “what God has spoken, and emodies a plan”. The Logos pertains to Jesus, but Jesus is not the Logos.
In John 1:14 what God has spoken pertaining to Jesus became a reality.
There are many prophecies in the OT pertaining to the coming of Jesus, the Messiah, is there not?
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (942767 @ Jan. 07 2012,19:01) In John 1:14 what God has spoken pertaining to Jesus became a reality.
So it was “what God has spoken pertaining to Jesus” that dwelled on earth with the glory of God's only begotten Son?The words God speaks are considered to be His “sons”?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 09 2012,03:42) Quote (942767 @ Jan. 07 2012,19:01) In John 1:14 what God has spoken pertaining to Jesus became a reality.
So it was “what God has spoken pertaining to Jesus” that dwelled on earth with the glory of God's only begotten Son?The words God speaks are considered to be His “sons”?
Hi Mike:What God had spoken pertaining to Jesus became a reality, and Jesus began to exist in the flesh.
Quote 1Pe 1:18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, [as] silver and gold, from your vain conversation [received] by tradition from your fathers; 1Pe 1:19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
1Pe 1:20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
Love in Christ,
MartyHi Mike:
You ask:
Quote The words God speaks are considered to be His “sons”? I believe you can figure this out on your own.
Lovwe in Christ,
MartyQuote (942767 @ Jan. 08 2012,18:11) Hi Mike: What God had spoken pertaining to Jesus became a reality, and Jesus began to exist in the flesh.
Okay Marty,Let's try out your theory with the scripture:
1 In the beginning was WHAT GOD HAD SPOKEN PERTAINING TO JESUS, and WHAT GOD HAD SPOKEN PERTAINING TO JESUS was with God, and WHAT GOD HAD SPOKEN PERTAINING TO JESUS was God. 2 He (
) was with God in the beginning. 14 WHAT GOD HAD SPOKEN PERTAINING TO JESUS became flesh and made
his(WHAT GOD HAD SPOKEN PERTAINING TO JESUS') dwelling among us. We have seenhis(WHAT GOD HAD SPOKEN PERTAINING TO JESUS') glory, the glory of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.15 John testifies concerning
him(WHAT GOD HAD SPOKEN PERTAINING TO JESUS). He cries out, saying, “This was he of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.’”Does that sound about right, Marty? Show me where I've gone off track, please.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 09 2012,12:59) Quote (942767 @ Jan. 08 2012,18:11) Hi Mike: What God had spoken pertaining to Jesus became a reality, and Jesus began to exist in the flesh.
Okay Marty,Let's try out your theory with the scripture:
1 In the beginning was WHAT GOD HAD SPOKEN PERTAINING TO JESUS, and WHAT GOD HAD SPOKEN PERTAINING TO JESUS was with God, and WHAT GOD HAD SPOKEN PERTAINING TO JESUS was God. 2 He (
) was with God in the beginning. 14 WHAT GOD HAD SPOKEN PERTAINING TO JESUS became flesh and made
his(WHAT GOD HAD SPOKEN PERTAINING TO JESUS') dwelling among us. We have seenhis(WHAT GOD HAD SPOKEN PERTAINING TO JESUS') glory, the glory of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.15 John testifies concerning
him(WHAT GOD HAD SPOKEN PERTAINING TO JESUS). He cries out, saying, “This was he of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.’”Does that sound about right, Marty? Show me where I've gone off track, please.
Hi Mike:In the beginning was the Logos which is what God has spoken pertaining to Jesus, and what God had spoken pertaining to Jesus was with God (this embodies an idea or a plan) and the Logos(what God has spoken relative to Jesus was God).
The Logos is God in that God is love, and it is through His giving us His Son that his love in made manifest to humanity.
Quote Jhn 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God. He was with God in the beginning in the sense that it was God's plan to reconcile the world unto Himself through Jesus, and he was foreordained.
Quote 1Pe 1:18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, [as] silver and gold, from your vain conversation [received] by tradition from your fathers; 1Pe 1:19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
1Pe 1:20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
Quote Jhn 1:14 ¶ And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. And the Logos (what God has spoken pertaining to Jesus was made flesh)(Jesus was conceived of the Holy Ghost in the womb of the virgin Mary and was born into this world) and (we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father) full of grace and truth.
Quote Jhn 1:15 John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me. This verse needs no explanation relative to what I have stated.
Love in Christ,
MartyMarty! What you claim seams to somewhat not what Scriptures say. John talks about who Jesus was before He became flesh, not after…. He came down from Heaven, and He had a glory with His Father BEFORE the world was…… that is not after He was born of Maria… but before
Jhn 6:38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
this is what Jesus is saying, are you going to deny what Jesus said?
Jhn 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
Jesus explains it very nicely, how He wants the glory again which He had before the world was….
Throughout Johns Gospel ut shows several times, that God sent
his Son into the world. If you read all of John you will see that to be true…Now Marty, what is Jesus right now? He is a Spirit Being, and that is what He was before the world was, simple as that…. so why is it so hard to understand that He also was a Logos before He became a man…..
Peace Irene
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 08 2012,18:47) Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 07 2012,18:15) this is how the Pharisees where talking to Christ ;WE know”WE believe ,WE have Moses,WE have Abraham for father WE,WE, the big WE” where God is reduced to a stand buyer ,
Pierre,Your point is excellent. Your English, not so much.
The term is “bystander”, not “stand buyer”. A stand buyer would be someone who purchases stands. Your friend,
mike
MikeYeah I thank God that you are around to help me,
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