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Hi Jodi
Again
“”The genealogy of Jesus Christ the SON of David, the SON of Abraham”.If Jesus lived in some form before Abraham and David, he was not their son, and the statement is false. “
Not so.
His existence before Abraham and David was not according to human geneology, by which he was indeed their son.Hi Jodi,
Again
'In short, God revealed Himself in a man of His providing who became the pattern for all those who would approach unto Him in hope of eternal life. God does not expect that such will attain unto the perfection they behold in the Son, but He does require of them that they build into their lives some of the divine characteristics that they see there revealed. By so doing, they develop a character worthy of perpetuation in a body of incorruptible glory in the Age to come “So how did God reveal Himself in a man if he was working in his own latent powers?
Can we follow him in our own strength or do we too need the anointing of God to do so?Surely the Pharisees too relied on eternal changes and their own righteousness and did not seek to wash the inside of the cup and this teaching you present too is that we do not need to repent or be born again from above but just imitate Christ.
Another new gospel.
Hi Jodi.
Again
“The theory that sets forth Jesus as a pre-existent angel, however, destroys this pattern, and mystifies and distorts the beautiful doctrine of God-manifestation in the man Christ Jesus. “The author seems unfamiliar with Heb 1-2 which clearly draws the line between Christ and the angels.
Jodi…I agree with you that Jesus did not preexist before he was born except in the plan and will of God. In col1:16 where it says God created all things by Christ. You must remember the original Greek text was written in all capital letters, so many places where they are used to indicate a person i.e, Word, Christ and ect. is a mistranslation of the text. Now lets reread the col 1:16 using the lower case christ meaning not a person but the annointing (or Spirit) as i believe it should be read like this. God created all things by the annointing or Spirit. This also happened where it say's that christ was that rock that followed them in the wilderness.It should read the Anointing was the rock that followed them in the wilderness. I believe. Just my opinion…..gene
I have to disagree.
Mic 5:2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel;whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting
(Psa 33:6)
– – “A Prayer of Moses, the man of God. O Jehovah, You have been our dwelling-place in all generations. Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever You had formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting You are God. ”2Co 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.
Joh 7:42 Hath not the scripture said, That Christ cometh of the seed of David, and out of the town of Bethlehem, where David was?
2Ti 2:8 Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel:
Jer 23:5-6 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch (Jesus), and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.
In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD (Yhovah)OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.2Co 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.
Quote (Cult Buster @ July 30 2007,23:44) Joh 7:42 Hath not the scripture said, That Christ cometh of the seed of David, and out of the town of Bethlehem, where David was? 2Ti 2:8 Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel:
Jer 23:5-6 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch (Jesus), and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.
In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD (Yhovah)OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.2Co 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.
CB,I'm curious, how is Jesus the seed of David?
Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 30 2007,12:47) Hi Jodi,
AGAIN
'. He was executed as a criminal, but, in fact, never sinned, and therefore God's justice demanded his resurrection (Acts 2:24).”Acts 2
” 22Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:23Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:
24Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.
25For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved:
26Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope:
27Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
28Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance.
29Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
30Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
31He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
32This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.”
So was his resurrection a prize for good behaviour or proof he was the promised Messiah?
God created man, and created a plan to perfect him. Because one man led the way to sin, God saw fit to have one man lead the way to righteousness.The spiritual gifts that God gave Jesus, making him the Messiah, were embraced by his free will.
Jesus was raised from the dead because God had succeeded in His plan. Jesus was raised from the dead because as Jesus glorified God on earth, God would then glorify Jesus with eternal life.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 30 2007,12:55) Hi Jodi,
Again
'In short, God revealed Himself in a man of His providing who became the pattern for all those who would approach unto Him in hope of eternal life. God does not expect that such will attain unto the perfection they behold in the Son, but He does require of them that they build into their lives some of the divine characteristics that they see there revealed. By so doing, they develop a character worthy of perpetuation in a body of incorruptible glory in the Age to come “So how did God reveal Himself in a man if he was working in his own latent powers?
Can we follow him in our own strength or do we too need the anointing of God to do so?Surely the Pharisees too relied on eternal changes and their own righteousness and did not seek to wash the inside of the cup and this teaching you present too is that we do not need to repent or be born again from above but just imitate Christ.
Another new gospel.
Hi Nick,
With all do respect you need to slow down abit and pay closer attention to what people say in their posts.I am not a Christadelphian, and instead of discussing the pre-existence, you start asking me questions on other matters of their beliefs.
I told IAM4Truth, “There understanding and use of scripture further added insight to the conclusion I was already beginning to make, that Jesus could not have pre-existed.
Just because I post a link does not mean I believe in everything from that link. I said the sight added further insight to my already existing belief that Jesus did not pre-exist. I did not say to IAM4Truth, read this, I believe in EVERYTHING that is written in it.
With that being said, I believe what you are trying to ask me in this post I have already answered in some of my other posts.
Hi Jodi,
You said
“This web-site deals with all the scriptures you have mentioned. I hope it gives you further understanding of why I am convinced that Jesus did not pre-exist.”Now you are saying these are not your beliefs after all??
Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 31 2007,10:15) Hi Jodi,
You said
“This web-site deals with all the scriptures you have mentioned. I hope it gives you further understanding of why I am convinced that Jesus did not pre-exist.”Now you are saying these are not your beliefs after all??
Hi Nick,IM4Truth had asked me to tell her what these scriptures meant
John1:2
John3:13
John 6:62
Col. 1:15&16
Rev. 34:14
Gen.1:26Because I felt I had already explained most of them I didn't feel like repeating myself. I thought it would be nice to give a paper that used the same scriptures she was asking for.
What I was telling you was, that I don't necessarily agree with everything being said in the paper, but the paper did convince me further that Jesus did not pre-exist.
Peace to you, I hope that clarifies things abit.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 31 2007,06:54) Hi not3,
He is not.
He is OF the seed of David, a son.
Galations 3:16The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. The scripture does not say “and to seeds,” meaning many people, but “and to your seed,” meaning one person who is Christ.
Hi not3,
We can speak of Christ just according to the flesh.
Acts 2:30
Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
Romans 1:3
Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;So he spiritually existed before he became the seed of Abraham?
So he wasn't sent as a Son, he was sent as THE SEED?Gene,
You and I know that Y'shua Messiah was filled with the Spirit of Elohim. He did His Father's will by choice as a human being. He was pure because He did not sin. YHWH blessed Him with the fullness of His Spirit, making them One, now sharing the same knowledge.To say that Y'shua Messiah is thw Word made flesh, only points out the power of the Spirit of Elohim. YHWH gives it to whom He wills. He gave it to His Son. He gave us to His Son. The two work together to show us how what we can also have. They teach us through the Spirit, that we can be One with them. They teach us how to work together and show us what it means to serve, submit, and trust, and love.
You can not deny the Father by saying that the Word is Y'shua made flesh, because that is how the Father made Him. Y'shua Messiah is called the Woed and it is said that He was there in the beginning, because He was in Spirit. We esteem the Father by recognizing what Hid did through His Word fulfilled in His Son.
AmenHope this helped.
Quote (Laurel @ Aug. 02 2007,17:19) YHWH blessed Him with the fullness of His Spirit, making them One, now sharing the same knowledge.
When did this blessing of knowledge come to Christ? After the resurrection? The reason I ask is because Christ told the disciples that he didn't know the time of his return. Might he have told them a half truth? Meaning, he didn't know then, but he would know after his glorious resurrection?
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