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Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 23 2011,04:21) Quote (t8 @ Nov. 22 2011,08:19)
So the Word of God is not Jesus but the Father?
Hi T8,Can it be any simpler than…
“The words that I speak unto you, they are spirit (John 6:63)God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
edjthe words, are only spirits in their understanding of their meaning ,NOT in the letters
Pierre
Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 23 2011,03:17) Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 23 2011,04:21) Quote (t8 @ Nov. 22 2011,08:19)
So the Word of God is not Jesus but the Father?
Hi T8,Can it be any simpler than…
“The words that I speak unto you, they are spirit (John 6:63)God bless
Ed J
edjthe words, are only spirits in their understanding of their meaning ,NOT in the letters
Pierre
PIERRE,2Corinthians 5:19 To wit, that God(HolySpirit) was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them;
and (God) hath committed unto us The Word of reconciliation.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Gene Balthrop @ Nov. 22 2011,23:28) T8 come out of ALL those false teachings of the Trinitarians and Preexistences not half way out brother. IMO
Your obviously not paying attention Gene to make a statement like that.Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 22 2011,21:21) Quote (t8 @ Nov. 22 2011,08:19)
So the Word of God is not Jesus but the Father?
Hi T8,Can it be any simpler than…
“The words that I speak unto you, they are spirit (John 6:63)God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Ed J,I would fully agree with you. Note also that Shaul said Father Yahweh's instruction (torah, law, word) is spiritual:
For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin (Romans 7:14).
AND
“… the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of Yahweh (Ephesians 6:17).
The Holy Spirit Is An It!
The Holy Spirit Is Not A Person!
The Same Is Also True Of Yahweh's Word!Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Nov. 23 2011,06:28) Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 22 2011,21:21) Quote (t8 @ Nov. 22 2011,08:19)
So the Word of God is not Jesus but the Father?
Hi T8,Can it be any simpler than…
“The words that I speak unto you, they are spirit (John 6:63)God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Ed J,I would fully agree with you. Note also that Shaul said Father Yahweh's instruction (torah, law, word) is spiritual:
For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin (Romans 7:14).
AND
“… the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of Yahweh (Ephesians 6:17).
The Holy Spirit Is An It!
The Holy Spirit Is Not A Person!
The Same Is Also True Of Yahweh's Word!
Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Nov. 18 2011,17:55) Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 19 2011,09:18) frank Gene Quote Yahshua later died and was raised from the dead by his and our Father Yahweh and became “the firstborn of all creation”. this is wrong it can not be OF ALL CREATION in your view it is ;IN ALL FUTURE CREATION not past
Pierre
Pierre,No, this is right and it is not my view “IN ALL FUTURE CREATION” as you have erroneously stated! Following is an excerpt from Voy Wilks' study entitled: “YAHSHUA: DID HE PRE-EXIST? that I have on my web page at: http://frank4yahweh.tripod.com/ByAndThrough.html . If you are truly interested in what it is that we believe on this matter of Yahshua pre-existing his birth, I would suggest that you please go there and read the entire study article for a better understanding:
The Word “By”
Yahweh created the world “by” (through) the Son (Heb. 1:2 KJV). The Diaglott says Yahweh created the world “on account of” the Son. Any one of the three (“by,” “through,” or “on account of”) is, technically, a correct translation of the Greek word Di' or Dia. Dia is in the KJV translated several ways, but usually is translated as follows:
By – 243 times; through – 100 times; for – 106 times; because – 24 times; because of – 29 times; for the sake of – 32 times; etc.
The King's Men did not translate the WORD di' incorrectly in Heb. 1:2. By or through is a correct translation of the WORD, but ONLY IF THE MESSAGE in the sentence agrees, or allows it. But alas, in this case the message of the sentence will not allow this translation.
Reason #1. Heb 1:2a reveals Yahshua to be the heir of what was created.
Reason #2. More than 100 Scriptures show it was Yahweh (not Yahshua) who created the heavens and the earth. Heb. 1:2 must agree with the 100 other Scriptures. For a list of these see our paper, “Who Is the Creator?”
For these reasons, the sentence in Heb. 1:2b must have
originally read like the Diaglott reads today, Yahweh “… in the last of these days spoke to us by a Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, ON ACCOUNT OF whom also he constituted the ages; …”Another acceptable translation would be, “… a Son, FOR whom he created the world.”
Many times the King James Version as well as more modern versions translate dia as “for,” “because of,” “therefore” (meaning “for this reason”). For a more detailed layout of the word di' (dia), ask for our paper, “Hebrews 1:2 – Berry.”
This is not to say the the King's Men purposely mistranslated, nor is this to say they were dishonest. Not at all. On the contrary, they no doubt delivered what they believed to be the correct translation of Heb. 1:2. We must realize, however, that all of the King's Men believed the doctrine of the Trinity (one is three, and three are one). Believing this, they saw no contradiction between this Scripture (as they translated it) and the 100 Scriptures which show that Yahweh the Father is truly and personally the Creator of the heaven and earth.
There are at least two other Scriptures in which di' should have been translated for, or on account of. These are Col. 1:16-17 and John 1:10. Let us review these Scriptures, then return to our study in the book of Hebrews.
Colossians 1:16,17
“For by him [Yahshua] were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, … all things were created by him and for him” (Col. 1:16,17 KJV).
Just as in Heb. 1:2, di' can be translated for, and on account of, as well as by or through. As indicated above, either way is technically correct for this WORD. However, the MESSAGE in this text must decide which is the proper translation. The same is true of the Greek word en (= the English in).
Since Yahweh is the Creator (Heb. 3:4; Ex. 20:11; Mt. 21:33; Mk. 12:7; Lk. 20:14), and Yahshua is the heir, then Col. 1:16,17 SHOULD TELL THE SAME STORY. Dozens of Scriptures in both Testaments tell us plainly that Yahweh is the Creator, and there is no other El but but him. He alone is the only true El, Eloah, Elohim, and Creator.
Yahshua and the New Testament writers proved everything by Old Testament Scriptures, therefore New Testament Scriptures should (and originally did) agree with Old Testament Scriptures. The New Testament Scriptures are based on the older ones. This being true, it seems that a more exact reading of Col. 1:16,17, and one which is agreeable to the Greek text, is as follows:
“For in [en = in, to, unto, as well as by] him were all things created, that are in [en] heaven, and that are on earth, … all things were created on account of [di'] him and for him.”
Hi FrankExcellent stuff!
Your link provides makes some really valid points concerning Jesus claims in John 17:3…
Theocrat wrote:
In John 17:3, Jesus clearly sets himself in contrast to ‘the only one who is truly God’, the Father.I agree that grammatically Jesus differentiates himself here from ‘the only one who is truly God’. But looking at the overall implications of Jesus’ statement, I see it as a startling claim that no created being could properly make. I can’t imagine the archangel Gabriel saying: “Eternal life consists of knowing me and knowing God.”
Jesus expected his followers to love him so intensely that their love for self and others would seem like hatred in comparison (Luke 14:26). Would the one true God tolerate being eclipsed in honour by his created Son?
Jesus did not merely show people how to live (which is what a prophet would do) but he called people to devote themselves to him and to give him their ultimate allegiance (Matthew 10:39).
Jesus claimed to be the only means whereby a man can find God. A mere prophet may claim to be a signpost to God but never to be the only way (John 14:6).
Jesus claimed to be the only thing which will truly satisfy a man’s soul (John 6:35). No true prophet would make such blasphemous claims.
Jesus invited people to depend on him for peace, rest, joy, strength, and everything else needed to cope with life (Matthew 11:28, John 14:1). Could a mere creature fulfil that role?
The message of the prophets such as Moses, Elijah, and Isaiah was: “Come to God. Follow God. Obey God.” But Jesus’ message was thoroughly egocentric: “Come to me. Follow me. Obey me.”
Jesus spoke of himself and God together as “we” and “our” (John 14:23). Which creature would ever dare to that?
Theocrat wrote:
The only word translated ‘worship’ as applied to Jesus is, in the original Greek, proskuneo … Yet this is not the worship given to God alone. For that, the word lautreo is reserved. This is never used of Jesus.What about Revelation 22:3?
Theocrat wrote:
Strictly speaking, the spirit of God would appear to be his operational presence, as opposed to another person in the godhead …
Furthermore, it would seem to connote the ‘inner life’ of God, often being used synonymously with his thought and by extension, his expressed word. Of
course, the same could be said of our human spirits. They too can be vexed, grieved etc. without being another person ‘subsisting’ within our ‘essence’. It may even be that ‘spirit’ is not an ontological category at all but instead, a metaphor.I don’t see how this view is compatible with the fact that the Holy Spirit listens to God the Father (John 16:13) and talks to God the Father (Romans 8:27).
Welcome to HN. I have been way to busy to visit here lately because of personal things in my life but carry on by teaching the truth and pray that the light will break through to some of the darkened hearts and blinded eyes in this place.
Blessings and Love
Keith
Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 23 2011,10:44) Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 23 2011,03:17) Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 23 2011,04:21) Quote (t8 @ Nov. 22 2011,08:19)
So the Word of God is not Jesus but the Father?
Hi T8,Can it be any simpler than…
“The words that I speak unto you, they are spirit (John 6:63)God bless
Ed J
edjthe words, are only spirits in their understanding of their meaning ,NOT in the letters
Pierre
PIERRE,2Corinthians 5:19 To wit, that God(HolySpirit) was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them;
and (God) hath committed unto us The Word of reconciliation.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
edjyou still do not understand scriptures the way they are spelled out and have been shown to the actions of Christ and his disciples
?2Co 5:14 For Christ’s love compels us, because we are convinced that one died for all, and therefore all died.
2Co 5:15 And he died for all, that those who live should no longer live for themselves but for him who died for them and was raised again.
2Co 5:16 So from now on we regard no one from a worldly point of view. Though we once regarded Christ in this way, we do so no longer.
2Co 5:17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come!
2Co 5:18 All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation:
2Co 5:19 that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation.he(Christ) has committed to us the message of reconciliation.
2Co 5:14 For Christ’s love compels us, because we are convinced that one died for all,
2Co 5:18 All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation:
please read and understand what Paul is saying
Pierre
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Nov. 23 2011,06:39) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Nov. 18 2011,17:55) Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 19 2011,09:18) frank Gene Quote Yahshua later died and was raised from the dead by his and our Father Yahweh and became “the firstborn of all creation”. this is wrong it can not be OF ALL CREATION in your view it is ;IN ALL FUTURE CREATION not past
Pierre
Pierre,No, this is right and it is not my view “IN ALL FUTURE CREATION” as you have erroneously stated! Following is an excerpt from Voy Wilks' study entitled: “YAHSHUA: DID HE PRE-EXIST? that I have on my web page at: http://frank4yahweh.tripod.com/ByAndThrough.html . If you are truly interested in what it is that we believe on this matter of Yahshua pre-existing his birth, I would suggest that you please go there and read the entire study article for a better understanding:
The Word “By”
Yahweh created the world “by” (through) the Son (Heb. 1:2 KJV). The Diaglott says Yahweh created the world “on account of” the Son. Any one of the three (“by,” “through,” or “on account of”) is, technically, a correct translation of the Greek word Di' or Dia. Dia is in the KJV translated several ways, but usually is translated as follows:
By – 243 times; through – 100 times; for – 106 times; because – 24 times; because of – 29 times; for the sake of – 32 times; etc.
The King's Men did not translate the WORD di' incorrectly in Heb. 1:2. By or through is a correct translation of the WORD, but ONLY IF THE MESSAGE in the sentence agrees, or allows it. But alas, in this case the message of the sentence will not allow this translation.
Reason #1. Heb 1:2a reveals Yahshua to be the heir of what was created.
Reason #2. More than 100 Scriptures show it was Yahweh (not Yahshua) who created the heavens and the earth. Heb. 1:2 must agree with the 100 other Scriptures. For a list of these see our paper, “Who Is the Creator?”
For these reasons, the sentence in Heb. 1:2b must have
originally read like the Diaglott reads today, Yahweh “… in the last of these days spoke to us by a Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, ON ACCOUNT OF whom also he constituted the ages; …”Another acceptable translation would be, “… a Son, FOR whom he created the world.”
Many times the King James Version as well as more modern versions translate dia as “for,” “because of,” “therefore” (meaning “for this reason”). For a more detailed layout of the word di' (dia), ask for our paper, “Hebrews 1:2 – Berry.”
This is not to say the the King's Men purposely mistranslated, nor is this to say they were dishonest. Not at all. On the contrary, they no doubt delivered what they believed to be the correct translation of Heb. 1:2. We must realize, however, that all of the King's Men believed the doctrine of the Trinity (one is three, and three are one). Believing this, they saw no contradiction between this Scripture (as they translated it) and the 100 Scriptures which show that Yahweh the Father is truly and personally the Creator of the heaven and earth.
There are at least two other Scriptures in which di' should have been translated for, or on account of. These are Col. 1:16-17 and John 1:10. Let us review these Scriptures, then return to our study in the book of Hebrews.
Colossians 1:16,17
“For by him [Yahshua] were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, … all things were created by him and for him” (Col. 1:16,17 KJV).
Just as in Heb. 1:2, di' can be translated for, and on account of, as well as by or through. As indicated above, either way is technically correct for this WORD. However, the MESSAGE in this text must decide which is the proper translation. The same is true of the Greek word en (= the English in).
Since Yahweh is the Creator (Heb. 3:4; Ex. 20:11; Mt. 21:33; Mk. 12:7; Lk. 20:14), and Yahshua is the heir, then Col. 1:16,17 SHOULD TELL THE SAME STORY. Dozens of Scriptures in both Testaments tell us plainly that Yahweh is the Creator, and there is no other El but but him. He alone is the only true El, Eloah, Elohim, and Creator.
Yahshua and the New Testament writers proved everything by Old Testament Scriptures, therefore New Testament Scriptures should (and originally did) agree with Old Testament Scriptures. The New Testament Scriptures are based on the older ones. This being true, it seems that a more exact reading of Col. 1:16,17, and one which is agreeable to the Greek text, is as follows:
“For in [en = in, to, unto, as well as by] him were all things created, that are in [en] heaven, and that are on earth, … all things were created on account of [di'] him and for him.”
Hi FrankExcellent stuff!
Your link provides makes some really valid points concerning Jesus claims in John 17:3…
Theocrat wrote:
In John 17:3, Jesus clearly sets himself in contrast to ‘the only one who is truly God’, the Father.I agree that grammatically Jesus differentiates himself here from ‘the only one who is truly God’. But looking at the overall implications of Jesus’ statement, I see it as a startling claim that no created being could properly make. I can’t imagine the archangel Gabriel saying: “Eternal life consists of knowing me and knowing God.”
Jesus expected his followers to love him so intensely that their love for self and others would seem like hatred in comparison (Luke 14:26). Would the one true God tolerate being eclipsed in honour by his created Son?
Jesus did not merely show people how to live (which is what a prophet would do) but he called people to devote themselves to him and to give him their ultimate allegiance (Matthew 10:39).
Jesus claimed to be the only means whereby a man can find God. A mere prophet may claim to be a signpost to God but never to be the only way (John 14:6).
Jesus claimed to be the only thing which will truly satisfy a man’s soul (John 6:35). No true prophet would make such blasphemous claims.
Jesus invited people to depend on him for peace, rest, joy, strength, and everything else needed to cope with life (Matthew 11:28, John 14:1). Could a mere creature fulfil that role?
The message of the prophets such as Moses, Elijah, and Isaiah was: “Come to God. Follow God. Obey God.” But Jesus’ message was thoroughly egocentric: “Come to me. Follow me. Obey me.”
Jesus spoke of himself and God together as “we” and “our” (John 14:23). Which creature would ever dare to that?
Theocrat wrote:
The only word translated ‘worship’ as applied to Jesus is, in the original Greek, proskuneo … Yet this is not the worship given to God alone. For that, the word lautreo is reserved. This is never used of Jesus.What about Revelation 22:3?
Theocrat wrote:
Strictly speaking, the spirit of God would appear
to be his operational presence, as opposed to another person in the godhead …
Furthermore, it would seem to connote the ‘inner life’ of God, often being used synonymously with his thought and by extension, his expressed word. Of course, the same could be said of our human spirits. They too can be vexed, grieved etc. without being another person ‘subsisting’ within our ‘essence’. It may even be that ‘spirit’ is not an ontological category at all but instead, a metaphor.I don’t see how this view is compatible with the fact that the Holy Spirit listens to God the Father (John 16:13) and talks to God the Father (Romans 8:27).
Welcome to HN. I have been way to busy to visit here lately because of personal things in my life but carry on by teaching the truth and pray that the light will break through to some of the darkened hearts and blinded eyes in this place.
Blessings and Love
Keith
WorshippingJesus,Yes, this is why Yahshua said that no man comes unto the Father but by me and that he was the way the truth and the life. Yahshua is our mediator, intercessor, and advocate with his and our Father Yahweh and is the spokesman of His word in this last time period.
I have no problem with one “worshiping” Yahshua as Father Yahweh's son Whom he anointed and appointed to reign as King for 1,000 years, but what I do not agree with is one who “worships” Yahshua as our Heavenly Father and Creator and one who credits Yahshua for creating ANYTHING. There is sound reason why Scripture never records Yahshua as proclaiming that he had created ANYTHING. Yahshua knew full well that his and our Father Yahweh is the Creator of the Heavens and the Earth and ALL THINGS IN THEM and that it was He ALONE and BY HIMSELF Who done the creating of ALL things. He seen this truth through and in agreement with the so-called “Old Testament”. He certainly knew and seen from Father Yahweh's prophetic word about his prophesied coming, but he most certainly never knew of any pre-existence that he had with his and our Father Yahweh in the beginning or any mention in his and our Father Yahweh's prophetic word about his pre-existing his birth as an actual being.
Quote (t8 @ Nov. 22 2011,19:09) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Nov. 22 2011,11:52) Many are deceived into believing that the “word” (that has been deliberately CAPITALIZED on and PERSONIFIED in translation) spoken of in Yahchanan [John] 1:1 is literally Father Yahweh's word as a separate being apart from Himself that pre-existed as His son Yahshua. This was done to confuse one into believing in a “Triune God”.
It was done because the Logos is preceded with the definite article in every instance of that word in John 1:1. Just as God is too, except the last mention of theos.I have found very few people who understand what this means in Greek. Definite articles identify and the lack of one usually qualifies. e.g., “ye are theos”, is not the same as “you are THE theos”. One qualifies one as having the nature/authority of God and the other identifies one as God himself.
In English we do not say, THE frank (like Greek), rather we capitalise the first letter so we get Frank.
“THE logos” in English is Logos.
t8,Certainly Father Yahweh's word has might, strength, power, and authority, but His word certainly is not a person nor is His word ever in reference to a separate being apart from Him.
Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Nov. 23 2011,07:51) Quote (t8 @ Nov. 22 2011,19:09) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Nov. 22 2011,11:52) Many are deceived into believing that the “word” (that has been deliberately CAPITALIZED on and PERSONIFIED in translation) spoken of in Yahchanan [John] 1:1 is literally Father Yahweh's word as a separate being apart from Himself that pre-existed as His son Yahshua. This was done to confuse one into believing in a “Triune God”.
It was done because the Logos is preceded with the definite article in every instance of that word in John 1:1. Just as God is too, except the last mention of theos.I have found very few people who understand what this means in Greek. Definite articles identify and the lack of one usually qualifies. e.g., “ye are theos”, is not the same as “you are THE theos”. One qualifies one as having the nature/authority of God and the other identifies one as God himself.
In English we do not say, THE frank (like Greek), rather we capitalise the first letter so we get Frank.
“THE logos” in English is Logos.
t8,Certainly Father Yahweh's word has might, strength, power, and authority, but His word certainly is not a person nor is His word ever in reference to a separate being apart from Him.
Hi Frank,Excellent post brother!
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgWJ
Quote Welcome to HN. I have been way to busy to visit here lately because of personal things in my life but carry on by teaching the truth and pray that the light will break through to some of the darkened hearts and blinded eyes in this place. Blessings and Love
Keith
it seems that Frank is one of your students, many men made comments redo what scriptures are saying or change the meaning of it ,you call this truth ??
Pierre
T8……> the words Jesus tells us are the FATHERS words, and they certainly are connected with POWER. God to revelations and read where it describes the Lamb (Jesus) it say he has the seven eyes which (ARE) the seven Spirits (distinct Intellects) of GOD and also notice there are Seven Horns (symbols of POWER) these are indeed connect with those Seven Spirits. Jesus see and has all power Just like the Father does as He said “all power has been given unto me in heaven and earth”, It is very obvious Jesus now has great Power and ability to Judge even as GOD the father can Judge with Power. Jesus who was a Man born into existence just as we are through a Berth process made it to become the first from mankind to be resurected to eternal life , he is our exact and perfect example of what God the Father want us all to become. just as it says “ until we all come unto the measure and (FULL) stature of Christ Jesus we are called JOINT Heirs with him and He calls us he Brothers and Sisters, we are of the family of GOD and our Elder Brother is Jesus the first from mankind to sit next to the Father ours and His GOD. IMO
peace and love to you and yours………………………………………………………….gene
Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 22 2011,04:31) Hi Mike, The problem of thinking that the prophets of old are called the
word of God also, have you forgotten what you said already?
I never said the prophets of old were also called “the Word of God”. I asked Frank if that's what HE was saying.None of them were ever called “the Word of God” to my knowledge, and therefore there is no problem I'm trying to solve using your “the Word was the Holy Spirit” fallacy.
Ed, consider that Isaiah 42:1-9 is a Messianic prophecy. Here are verses 1 and 6:
1 “Here is my servant, whom I uphold,
my chosen one in whom I delight;
I will put my Spirit on him
and he will bring justice to the nations.6 “I, the LORD, have called you in righteousness;
I will take hold of your hand.
I will keep you and will make you
to be a covenant for the people
and a light for the Gentiles,Ed, who is the “light for the Gentiles”? The servant of whom God speaks here? Or the Holy Spirit that God PUTS ON that servant?
Now compare that with John 1:
9 The true light that gives light to every man was coming into the world.10 He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. 11 He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him.
Again I ask: WHO was this “light”?
John 8:12
When Jesus spoke again to the people, he said, “I am the light of the world.”John 9:5
“While I am in the world, I am the light of the world.”Luke 2
28 Simeon took him in his arms and praised God, saying:29 “Sovereign Lord, as you have promised,
you now dismiss your servant in peace.
30 For my eyes have seen your salvation,
31 which you have prepared in the sight of all people,
32 a light for revelation to the Gentiles
and for glory to your people Israel.”Ed, WHO was the “light”? Jesus? Or the Holy Spirit that God put upon Jesus?
(Gene and Frank: Whichever one is the “light” is the one who came into a world that had been made through him.)
Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Nov. 17 2011,08:49) t8, I will put it this way! I most certainly will answer a serious or logical question, but foolish questions I simply refuse to answer!
OK.How about we start with what Mike is asking.
I think it is a fair and reasonable question as he is only asking to clarify your understanding of a text that appears on the outset to contradict your view.Are these not fair and reasonable questions below?
Quote Frank, Phil 2 says Jesus was existing in the form of God, and then emptied himself and took on the form of a servant.
I asked you what Jesus emptied himself OF. You said he emptied himself of pride.
So I asked you when Jesus ever had pride, or lorded it over others that he was the Son of God to the point that he had to empty himself OF this pride.
I fail to see how this is a “foolish question”. I acknowledge your answer of “pride”, and want to know when it was that he HAD this pride he emptied himself of.
I also asked you how one can be MADE INTO the likeness of a human being if he already was a human being. You said that you were both a human being AND were MADE INTO a human being. So I asked if you had ever been in any other form BEFORE being MADE INTO a human being.
Again, I don't see this question as “foolish”. I do however see your refusal to answer these questions as a tell-tale sign that you have made up your mind what you're going to believe; and you are going to keep on believing it – whether or not those beliefs actually align with the words of scripture.
That, of course, is YOUR choice. But all the name-calling is unnecessary. And it isn't honest for you to say you have answered my questions when the truth is that you don't want to answer them. At least be honest in your statements, okay?
peace,
mikeQuote (Ed J @ Nov. 22 2011,10:44) PIERRE, 2Corinthians 5:19 To wit, that God(HolySpirit) was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them;
and (God) hath committed unto us The Word of reconciliation.
Ed,You are confused.
Matthew 3:16-17
16 As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and lighting on him. 17 And a voice from heaven said, “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased.”
Jesus is the one coming out of the water. The Spirit OF God is what descended upon Jesus like a dove. God Himself is the One saying from heaven, “This is my Son, whom I love”.See Ed? God did not descend upon Jesus. His Holy Spirit did. Just like was foretold in the Isaiah passage I just quoted for you in my last post.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 23 2011,09:33) Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 22 2011,04:31) Hi Mike, The problem of thinking that the prophets of old are called the
word of God also, have you forgotten what you said already?
I never said the prophets of old were also called “the Word of God”. I asked Frank if that's what HE was saying.None of them were ever called “the Word of God” to my knowledge, and therefore there is no problem I'm trying to solve using your “the Word was the Holy Spirit” fallacy.
Ed, consider that Isaiah 42:1-9 is a Messianic prophecy. Here are verses 1 and 6:
1 “Here is my servant, whom I uphold,
my chosen one in whom I delight;
I will put my Spirit on him
and he will bring justice to the nations.6 “I, the LORD, have called you in righteousness;
I will take hold of your hand.
I will keep you and will make you
to be a covenant for the people
and a light for the Gentiles,Ed, who is the “light for the Gentiles”? The servant of whom God speaks here? Or the Holy Spirit that God PUTS ON that servant?
Now compare that with John 1:
9 The true light that gives light to every man was coming into the world.10 He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. 11 He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him.
Again I ask: WHO was this “light”?
John 8:12
When Jesus spoke again to the people, he said, “I am the light of the world.”John 9:5
“While I am in the world, I am the light of the world.”Luke 2
28 Simeon took him in his arms and praised God, saying:29 “Sovereign Lord, as you have promised,
you now dismiss your servant in peace.
30 For my eyes have seen your salvation,
31 which you have prepared in the sight of all people,
32 a light for revelation to the Gentiles
and for glory to your people Israel.”Ed, WHO was the “light”? Jesus? Or the Holy Spirit that God put upon Jesus?
(Gene and Frank: Whichever one is the “light” is the one who came into a world that had been made through him.)
Hi Mike,And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the
moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it,
and the Lamb is the light thereof. Revelation 21:23)The HolySpirit lightens the HolyCity with the light of the Lamb. <– simple right?
He(HolySpirit) shall take of mine, and shall show it unto you. (John 16:15)God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (WorshippingJesus @ Nov. 22 2011,13:39) Hi Frank Excellent stuff!
Your link provides makes some really valid points concerning Jesus claims in John 17:3…
Welcome to HN. I have been way to busy to visit here lately because of personal things in my life but carry on by teaching the truth and pray that the light will break through to some of the darkened hearts and blinded eyes in this place.
Blessings and Love
Keith
Frank, meet Keith – one of our resident hard-core Trinitarians who worships Jesus as God Almighty.
Keith, meet Frank – a man who believes Jesus began his existence as a human being, and has never been God Almighty.
Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 22 2011,13:43) he(Christ) has committed to us the message of reconciliation. 2Co 5:14 For Christ’s love compels us, because we are convinced that one died for all,
2Co 5:18 All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation:
Dang Pierre! Look at you go with combo bolded colors!
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