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Gene.
Jesus certainly has a beginning in the flesh.
But scripture says that he was the Word.That is what he was before he came in the flesh.
He was the Word that was with God.
So yes, you can talk about the seed and the flesh and him being a man.
But that is only part of the picture.Quote (t8 @ Nov. 22 2011,06:36) Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 22 2011,01:43) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 20 2011,01:50) Okay Frank, If Jesus was the spokesman of God in these last days, and that means the Word of God was manifest through Jesus, then it also means that same Word of God was manifest through those who were God's spokesman in the former days, right?
So then Isaiah, David, Moses, and all the others were also “the Word of God” in their respective time periods on earth, right?
Hi Mike,Once you've realized that “The Word” of God is the “HolySpirit',
then this problem disappears; right? (Note: I'm asking questions the way you do)God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Was not Jesus anointed with the Holy Ghost.
Does that mean he was he anointed with himself?How does this work?
Hi T8,The systems of religion and traditions of men communicate…
distortions of truth, confusion of mind, and distractions of spirit.He was anointed with his Father's spirit, as we must be.
the glory as of the only begotten of the Father (John 1:14)
compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. (Romans 8:18)God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (t8 @ Nov. 22 2011,06:39)
Jesus certainly has a beginning in the flesh.
But scripture says that he was the Word.
Hi T8,Where does it say that? …please do show us?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgJohn 1:14
The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.If the Word is God himself, then then the Father became flesh. But God is not a man.
And it was after all, Jesus who existed in the form of God who emptied himself and came in the flesh.
It is Jesus who wears a title, “the Word of God”.
And the Word was WITH God, so if the Word is the Father, then the Father was WITH God and given that God is the Father, then the Father was WITH the Father.How do you explain it?
Quote (t8 @ Nov. 22 2011,08:28) John 1:14
The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.If the Word is God himself, then then the Father became flesh. But God is not a man.
And it was after all, Jesus who existed in the form of God who emptied himself and came in the flesh.
It is Jesus who wears a title, “the Word of God”.
And the Word was WITH God, so if the Word is the Father, then the Father was WITH God and given that God is the Father, then the Father was WITH the Father.How do you explain it?
great points t8…Peace and Love IreneQuote (Ed J @ Nov. 21 2011,08:43) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 20 2011,01:50) Okay Frank, If Jesus was the spokesman of God in these last days, and that means the Word of God was manifest through Jesus, then it also means that same Word of God was manifest through those who were God's spokesman in the former days, right?
So then Isaiah, David, Moses, and all the others were also “the Word of God” in their respective time periods on earth, right?
Hi Mike,Once you've realized that “The Word” of God is the “HolySpirit',
then this problem disappears; right? (Note: I'm asking questions the way you do)God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
What “problem” Ed?Quote (t8 @ Nov. 21 2011,15:28) John 1:14
The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.If the Word is God himself, then then the Father became flesh. But God is not a man.
And it was after all, Jesus who existed in the form of God who emptied himself and came in the flesh.
It is Jesus who wears a title, “the Word of God”.
And the Word was WITH God, so if the Word is the Father, then the Father was WITH God and given that God is the Father, then the Father was WITH the Father.How do you explain it?
Not only that, but why would the Father, upon becoming flesh, have the glory of His own Son?
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Nov. 21 2011,09:00) T8………..No one disputes that, Jesus had his “Origins” from the Father so do we, It was God's Plan to For Jesus from the beginning of creation, remember, from the seed of the woman would come one the would bruise the serpents head Notice he said FROM THE (SEED) OF THE WOMEN HE WOULD COME question T8 did he say from the seed of a preexistent state could come someone who would bruise the serpents head as you and the rest of the preexistences assume? Also let consider this what Moses said ,
Deu 18:15….> The Lord thy God will raise up unto you a Prophet from the midst of you, OF or FROM thy brethren, like unto me; unto him shall you hearken;
Do you see the word a “preexisting being” of any kind there T8, i think not. But there is more T8 let see what God himself said.
Dut 18:17……> And the LORD said unto me, They have well spoken that which they have spoken. verse18, I (God) will raise them up a PROPHET FROM AMONG THEIR BRETHREN, like unto (YOU) and He shall speak unto them all that I Shall command him. verse 19….> And it shall come to pass that whosoever will not hearken unto (now notice T8) (MY WORDS) which he shall speak in (MY) name I shall require it of him.
T8 did you notice (MY WORDS) in (MY NAME). Also did you notice where he would come from “from among their brethren” , but you say from some where else He came, but God said he would raise him up from among his brethren and God said he would be the seed of a women , but you say no, from a preexisting (SEED) why does not scripture agree with you on that T8, where o where is there (ANY) scripture the says Jesus was a “preexisting” being of any kind Just one scripture will suffice,
What is interesting to me is how you people blow these scriptures away like the simply do not exist in our bibles. None of these scripturs show a tie in to any preexisting being. So you people move to the New testament and find scriptures that can be taken all kinds of way and try to make a your case from them While all the time ignoring the old testaments words. But yet Paul said we need to look at the OLD TESTAMENT to see if what was being said was true or not, but you people ignore it altogether in favor of translations produced by Trinitarians who are preexistences just like yourselves. IMO
peace and love to you and yours T8……………………………………………gene
Gene,We've been saying this forever, but here goes again:
WE ALL AGREE WITH THE SCRIPTURES YOU JUST QUOTED. We accept that Jesus came from among “his brethren”. We accept that he was the seed of the woman. We accept that he was born as a human being and was a descendent of David.
But NONE OF THAT excludes Jesus from having glory with the Father before the world was created. None of it excludes everything from being created through Jesus before he became flesh.
Do you think we don't acknowledge the scriptures that teach of Jesus' origins as a human being? Of course we do. But like I told you yesterday, and t8 told you today, YOU ONLY LOOK AT HALF OF THE PICTURE, AND MAKE YOUR CONCLUSION FROM ONLY THAT HALF.
Gene, if you want to disprove the pre-existence of Jesus, then you'll have to show where any of the scriptures we use as support of pre-existence actually CONTRADICT the scriptures you quoted.
Can you do that Gene? You'll have to show that “beginning of the creation by God” CONTRADICTS “Branch of David”.
Because the TRUTH of the matter is that Jesus is BOTH. And WE know that because WE base our understanding on the WHOLE picture, not just HALF of it like you do.
Now Gene, are you able to SCRIPTURALLY show us how Jesus can NOT be BOTH?
If not, then you are wasting your time posting scriptures that tell of Jesus being a human being. Because we already accept all those scriptures. If you want to shoot down pre-existence, then you'll have to show how being one EXCLUDES Jesus from being the other.
peace,
mikeQuote (t8 @ Nov. 22 2011,08:28) John 1:14
The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.If the Word is God himself, then then the Father became flesh. But God is not a man.
And it was after all, Jesus who existed in the form of God who emptied himself and came in the flesh.
It is Jesus who wears a title, “the Word of God”.
And the Word was WITH God, so if the Word is the Father, then the Father was WITH God and given that God is the Father, then the Father was WITH the Father.How do you explain it?
T8………..> God who is the words He spoke was in Jesus, go count the time Jesus said He was in him When are you going to understand that GOD (WHO is SPIRIT) was Himself in Jesus Just as Jesus said he was.Remember Thomas saying my Lord (AND) my God Thomas, a Jew, would never have said that Jesus was a GOD Never in a Million years would he have said that. Thomas came to realize GOD the FATHER was truly (IN) the Man Jesus Thomas was just saying what Jesus was saying all along The Father was truly (IN) Him God's seed is in all his begotten Childern He live (IN) and Through Them.
It was not Jesus who said destory “this” temple and in three days i shall raise it up. that was God the Father first Person speaking through Jesus the Man.
Again It was not Jesus who said “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which kills the prophets, and stones them that are sent unto you, how often would I (GOD) )Speaking First Person) have gathered your childern together as a hen does gather her brood under her wings, and you would not! verse 35, Behold yours house is left unto you desolate: and verily I (GOD) say unto you, you shall not see me, until the time come when you shall say Blessed is he that comes in the name of the LORD. That was God the FATHER First Person speaking through Jesus' Mouth by his Spirit which is His Logos. Those statements did not come from Jesus' Mind, it was God the Father (IN) him Speaking through HIM. When are you going to start to understand this T8?
peace and Love to you and yours ……………………………….gene
Quote (t8 @ Nov. 22 2011,08:28) John 1:14
The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.If the Word is God himself, then then the Father became flesh. But God is not a man.
And it was after all, Jesus who existed in the form of God who emptied himself and came in the flesh.
It is Jesus who wears a title, “the Word of God”.
And the Word was WITH God, so if the Word is the Father, then the Father was WITH God and given that God is the Father, then the Father was WITH the Father.How do you explain it?
t8,Father Yahweh's word is just that, Father Yahweh's word. Father Yahweh's word is not a separate being apart from Himself. Yahshua is not his and our Father Yahweh's word, but the spokesman of his and our Father Yahweh's word in this last time period as Hebrews 1:1-2 makes perfectly clear. This is why his name/title is called “The Word of Yahweh” in Revelation. Note that this does not say that Yahshua “IS” or “WAS” the word of Yahweh! Nowhere in Scripture does it ever teach that Yahshua “IS” or “WAS” the word of Yahweh or that Yahshua “IS” “God”!
Many are deceived into believing that the “word” (that has been deliberately CAPITALIZED on and PERSONIFIED in translation) spoken of in Yahchanan [John] 1:1 is literally Father Yahweh's word as a separate being apart from Himself that pre-existed as His son Yahshua. This was done to confuse one into believing in a “Triune God”.
Note John 1:1 in the following translations which does not give personification of Father Yahweh's word as a separate being apart from Himself:
1. “All things were made by it” (Tyndale, 1534)
CLICK HERE to see John 1:1 in Tyndale New Testament.
2. “The worde … All things were made by the same” (Coverdale, 1535)
3. “All things were made by it and without it nothing was made” (Matthews’ Bible, 1537)
4. “All things were made by it and without it was made nothing that was made” (The Great Bible, 1539)
5. “All things were made by it” (Taverner NT, 1540)
6. “All things were made by it”(Whittingham, 1557)
7. “All things were made by it” (The Geneva Bible, 1560)
8. “All things were made by it” (Bishops’ Bible, 1568)
9. “All things were made by it” (Tomson NT, 1607)
10. “Nor can anything be produced that has been made without it [Reason]” (John LeClerc, 1701)
11. “The word … through the same all things were made” (Mortimer, 1761)
12. “In the beginning was Wisdom … All things were made by it” (Wakefield NT, 1791)
13. “The Word … All things were made by it” (Alexander Campbell, founder of the Church of Christ, 1826)
14. “The Word … All things were formed by it” (Dickinson, A New and Corrected Version of the NT, 1833)
15. “All things were made by it” (Barnard, 1847)
16. “Through it [the logos] everything was done” (Wilson, Emphatic Diaglott, 1864)In the beginning was the LOGOS, and the LOGOS was with GOD, and the LOGOS was God. This was in the Beginning with GOD. Through it every thing was done; and without it not even one thing was done, which has been done.
17. “All things through it arose into being” (Folsom, 1869)
18. “All things were made through it” (Sharpe, Revision of the Authorized English Version, 1898)
19. “All things were made by the Love thought” (Goddard, 1916)
20. “All things came into being in this God-conception and apart from it came not anything into being that came into being” (Overbury, 1925)
21. “All came into being through it” (Knoch, 1926)
22. “The word … the living expression of the Father’s thought” (Blount, Half Hours with John’sGospel, 1930)
23. “The word was god” (C.C. Torrey, The Four Gospels, 1933)
24. “Through the divine reason all things came into being” (Wade, The Documents of the NT Translated, 1934)
25. “Without it nothing created sprang into existence” (Johannes Greber, 1937)
26. “It was in the beginning with God, by its activity all things came into being” (Martin Dibelius, The Message of Jesus Christ, translated by F.C. Grant, 1939)
27. “Through its agency all things came into being and apart from it has not one thing come to be” (William Temple, Archbishop of Canterbury, Readings from St. John’s Gospel, 1939)
28. “The energizing mind was in existence from the very beginning” (Crofts, The Four Gospels, 1949)
29. “First there was the Thought and the Thought was in God … He, him” (Hoare, Translation from the Greek, 1949)
30. “In the beginning God expressed Himself … That personal expression, that word … He” (J.B. Philips, NT in Modern English, 1958)
31. “All was done through it” (Tomanek, 1958)
32. “The Word was the life principle [in creation]” (William Barclay, NT, 1969)
33. “This same idea was at home with God when life began … He” (Jordan, Cottonpatch Version, 1970)
34. “All things became what they are through the Word” (Dale, NT, 1973)
35. “Within the Word was life” (Edington, 1976)
36. “It was his last werd. Ony it come first” (Gospels in Scouse, 1977)
37. “By it everything had being, and without it nothing had being” (Schonfield, The Original NT, 1985)
38. “All things were made through the Word” (Inclusive Language Lectionary, 1986)
39. “In the beginning was the Plan of Yahweh. All things were done according to it” (Hawkins, Book of Yahweh, 1987)
40. “All things happened through it” (Gaus, Unvarnished NT, 1991)
41. “In the beginning was the divine word and wisdom … everything came to be by means of it” (Robert Miller, The Complete Gospels, Annotated Scholars’ Version, 1992Clearly Yahshua is the spokesman of Father Yahweh's word in this last time period!
Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Nov. 22 2011,11:52) Many are deceived into believing that the “word” (that has been deliberately CAPITALIZED on and PERSONIFIED in translation) spoken of in Yahchanan [John] 1:1 is literally Father Yahweh's word as a separate being apart from Himself that pre-existed as His son Yahshua. This was done to confuse one into believing in a “Triune God”.
It was done because the Logos is preceded with the definite article in every instance of that word in John 1:1. Just as God is too, except the last mention of theos.I have found very few people who understand what this means in Greek. Definite articles identify and the lack of one usually qualifies. e.g., “ye are theos”, is not the same as “you are THE theos”. One qualifies one as having the nature/authority of God and the other identifies one as God himself.
In English we do not say, THE frank (like Greek), rather we capitalise the first letter so we get Frank.
“THE logos” in English is Logos.
Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Nov. 22 2011,12:34) Clearly Yahshua is the spokesman of Father Yahweh's word in this last time period!
Frank, are all prophets the Word of God according to what you believe?Are they all the Word become flesh?
Quote (t8 @ Nov. 22 2011,08:19)
So the Word of God is not Jesus but the Father?
Hi T8,Can it be any simpler than…
“The words that I speak unto you, they are spirit (John 6:63)God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (t8 @ Nov. 22 2011,08:28) John 1:14
The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.If the Word is God himself, then then the Father became flesh. But God is not a man.
And it was after all, Jesus who existed in the form of God who emptied himself and came in the flesh.
It is Jesus who wears a title, “the Word of God”.
And the Word was WITH God, so if the Word is the Father, then the Father was WITH God and given that God is the Father, then the Father was WITH the Father.How do you explain it?
Hi T8,In the beginning was the “HolySpirit”,
and the HolySpirit was with God,
and the”HolySpirit” was God.Now the “HolySpirit” is with us. …pretty simple, huh?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 22 2011,10:19) Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 21 2011,08:43) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 20 2011,01:50) Okay Frank, If Jesus was the spokesman of God in these last days, and that means the Word of God was manifest through Jesus, then it also means that same Word of God was manifest through those who were God's spokesman in the former days, right?
So then Isaiah, David, Moses, and all the others were also “the Word of God” in their respective time periods on earth, right?
Hi Mike,Once you've realized that “The Word” of God is the “HolySpirit',
then this problem disappears; right? (Note: I'm asking questions the way you do)God bless
Ed J
What “problem” Ed?
Hi Mike,The problem of thinking that the prophets of old are called the
word of God also, have you forgotten what you said already?God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (t8 @ Nov. 22 2011,10:46) Doesn't seem to add up.
Might need to check out the numerics on this Edj.
Hi T8,Yes, the numbers do add up, and here they are…
Hō Lōgôs(91) = Spirit(91)
English ↔ Hebrew ↔ Greek
“Word of God” ↔ “God” ↔ “The Word”
“Word of God”(86) = (אלהים](86] = [ο λογος](86)th Prime Hō Lōgôs
YHVH(63) = ĔL-ō-Hêêm(63) = The Bible(63)
Spirit of God(117) = (117)יהוה האלהים = Bible Truth(117)God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgT8………..God and His Word are one and the same , in exactly as you and your words are one and the same thing also. No difference, Jesus clearly said the words he was speaking were (NOT) HIS WORDS They were GOD'S words And God is Spirit and Life so also is his Words they are Spirit and Life. Jesus was Not Spirit ever then or now he is flesh and bone Just like he said he was.
Remember where it say that God may be all and (IN) all Yes God can truly be actually (IN) a Person Just as He was (IN) Jesus also and can Speak through that person directly through his mouth I know this for a fact i have had it happen to me personally in the past. God who (is) Spirit can Speak (first person through you or anyone he choses to). This is what he did (IN) and Through the flesh man Jesus.
Remember……> Know you not ” that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit which is (IN) you, which you have of GOD, and you are not your own? and again Know you not you (are) the temple of GOD, and that the SPIRIT OF GOD DWELLS IN YOU” T8 God was Truly (IN) Jesus Jesus had the fullness of the GOD head (IN) Him and that GOD spoke directly through Him to us all and in that way the LOGOS became or came to be (IN) flesh, He was (IN the flesh man Jesus our Brother and coming King.
T8 come out of ALL those false teachings of the Trinitarians and Preexistences not half way out brother. IMO
peace and love to you and yours……………………………………………………gene
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