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Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 27 2007,16:06) Hi Gene,
By emptying himself and coming and partaking of flesh do you think he was altered?
Satan is the god of this world in scripture but should we worship him too?
Nick…. by emptying himself of what (being a GOD) or an angle or what. and How would it behove him to be made like his brothern.. what would a supernatual being have to gain being a human being.the only i can see Jesus is a forordained person in the plan of God someone who GOD created and brought forth at the right time,just like it say's.
this gives God The Father all the Glory including the glory that Jesus now has .It all was from and by GOD The Father alone and no one else, it's his work from start to finish that God may be all and in all period. thanks gene.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 27 2007,12:39) Hi not3,
Christ was not just a son of man born of woman.
He was the monogenes son first.
Phil 2 shows he came by his consent.
Where did Jesus consent?
….being found in the image of a man, he humbled himself…”That is not a consent.
Nick, you once told me that there was a meeting in heaven where Jesus agreed to come down…..find those scriptures yet? Actually, any OT scriptures showing JESUS preexisted will be fine
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 27 2007,16:22) Nick ….John saw Jesus as uniquely begotten (he was born from a women who did have sex to beget him) this was unique no one else had been born that way. Why wouldn't he think that was unique, i certianly do. this is how Jesus was born into the world and how he begain life. You have no proof of any activity of Jesus before His birth as a human, if you do produce it. what was he doing pryer to his human existence . John said if you do not confess Jesus as comming in the flesh you are not of God.
John had a problem with gnostics who believed Jesus (WAS a GOD) whom the Almighty God sent out from the palura to save the world. He also had the antiadoptinest who change many scriptures to try to defy Jesus.by changeing things like (only begotten from uniquely begotten) in three places inthe scriptures. So John enforced the idea that Jesus came into existence through the flesh, by making the statement, that whoever did not confess Jesus as comming in flesh was not of GOD. why do you think he mentioned this three times.
thanks ….gene
Hi Gene
You say
“Why wouldn't he think that was unique, i certianly do.”There are lots of ways he could be unique.
We need to find which way scripture means.“So John enforced the idea that Jesus came into existence through the flesh, by making the statement, that whoever did not confess Jesus as comming in flesh was not of GOD. why do you think he mentioned this three times.”
What he said twice was
1Jn4
” 1Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.2Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
3And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. “
2Jn
“7For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.8Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward.
9Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
10If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:
11For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.”
Many tell us instead it was God came in the flesh.
To come in the flesh or partake of flesh one must surely already exist.
God prepared a body for the “man from heaven.”
Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 27 2007,14:06) Hi Gene
Psalm 2:7
I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.God said it
The Son heard him
No mother is mentioned
Nick,
You're smarter than I am, Psalm 2 speaks of quite a few things that HAVEN'T HAPPENED YET! In fact, the begotten Son spoken of appears to rule with an iron scepter, and the nations are his inheritance…….did the preexistent son have all those things prior to his birth? Even more, prior to his return to earth?Hi not3,
Yes.
But part of the paslm is prophetic we know but we also know that the begettal of the Son is not.Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 27 2007,16:32) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 27 2007,16:06) Hi Gene,
By emptying himself and coming and partaking of flesh do you think he was altered?
Satan is the god of this world in scripture but should we worship him too?
Nick…. by emptying himself of what (being a GOD) or an angle or what. and How would it behove him to be made like his brothern.. what would a supernatual being have to gain being a human being.the only i can see Jesus is a forordained person in the plan of God someone who GOD created and brought forth at the right time,just like it say's.
this gives God The Father all the Glory including the glory that Jesus now has .It all was from and by GOD The Father alone and no one else, it's his work from start to finish that God may be all and in all period. thanks gene.
Hi gene,
All he needed was a flesh body
And God provided it for him.[Heb 10]
God deserves and gets all the glory from the Son.Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 27 2007,16:43) Hi not3,
Yes.
But part of the paslm is prophetic we know but we also know that the begettal of the Son is not.
Oh, my brother, you are taking what you want to believe and quilting your own theology. Why is it OK to believe part of the Psalm and not the other part? There is something to be said for context. If the majority of the Psalm is speaking prophetically……..why only believe that the begettal is present-day-history?Nick ….if God begot him that day, why don't you believe that is was that day and not some other day in a prexistant time, because it say that the sons of God shouted for joy at the creation of the world.
Was Jeus their among them then, and if he was then why did God say this day I have begotten you then. He could not say today he begot Jesus if he already preixisted He would have to say today I rebegot you then, wouldn't He.Especially seening God Created all things in Heaven and Earth by His self.Hi not3,
Do you realise the first verses and the last verses are about the end of the millenial reign?
If so then do you think that the verses about the begettal apply to that time?Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 27 2007,17:00) Hi not3,
Do you realise the first verses and the last verses are about the end of the millenial reign?
If so then do you think that the verses about the begettal apply to that time?
Maybe.However, in Hebrews 5:4-9 (the parallel of Psalm 2), we are shown that this Psalm refers to Jesus becoming a high priest. also, it places the timeframe with “Jesus' life on earth” in verse 7.
Hi not3,
So must the whole psalm be fulfilled at one time?
How can you align the other verses then?
Many other psalms are similar in containing prophecies for different times as God sprinkles His truth for his sons to search out?If you are able to nail down when the majority of the Psalm will be fulfilled (the milleniel reign), thus in the future's-future……why place the begettal in the previous-past? Why not use scripture to tell you that the reign has not happened yet because prophecies need to be fulfilled, and the begettal happened when the Messiah was born (a fulfillment of prophecy in it's own right)? All the OT points towards the BIRTH of the Messiah…….why is that?
Quote (IM4Truth @ July 27 2007,03:40) Laurel I said that I was not going to respond to anything written here, but I must say something when you say Set-apart spirit. There is only one Holy Spirit read Ephesians 4:4-6 All other spirits are not from God. And believe me they are all around us. Satan and his demons is God of this world. Hopefully that will end soon. But you are right that this post has gone on to long. Going around in circles is not profitable.
Peace Mrs.IM4Truth
Mrs.IM4Truth
4truth,
Set-apart Spirit IS the correct usage of the Spirit of Elohim. It is “set apart” just like His people are set apart. Special and different from everything else. The word Holy Spirit is derived from Greek. If you tranlsated “Holy” to Greek you would get Set-apart. Hebrew IS the language of Elohim and Y'shua Messiah is the Savior's Name. Ya'weh is YHWH in Hebrew and is translated by the “Pharisees” and then to us as adoni which is LORD in English. Lord by the way is NOT His Name. Lord is a title, the same title used for every man who is a land owner.Now, we can keep wasting eachothers time by disputing His Name, but Scripture in Hebrew is the original and I prefer it because it is correct.
In the original language, (Qodesh Rauch) in Hebrew, in which Holy Spirit was translated from means Set-apart Spirit of Elohim.
It's funny how so many people here speak and do not know what they are speaking about.
Hi Laurel,
Is it possible that you mean to say instead of “In the original language, (Qodesh Ruach) in Hebrew, in which Holy Spirit was translated from means Set-apart Spirit of Elohim” should be 'Ruach in Hebrew, in which holy spirit was translated from is transliterated into English as set-apart spirit of Elohim?'
The reason I mention this is because of your use of 'meaning.' The definition of holy spirit (ruach) in Hebrew is:
wind, breath, mind, spirit
breath
wind
of heaven
quarter (of wind), side
breath of air
air, gas
vain, empty thing
spirit (as that which breathes quickly in animation or agitation)
spirit, animation, vivacity, vigour
courage
temper, anger
impatience, patience
spirit, disposition (as troubled, bitter, discontented)
disposition (of various kinds), unaccountable or uncontrollable impulse
(All taken from Theological Wordbook of the OT)The Greek holy spirit (pnuema) means:
a movement of air (a gentle blast
of the wind, hence the wind itself
breath of nostrils or mouth
the spirit, i.e. the vital principal by which the body is animated
the rational spirit, the power by which the human being feels, thinks, decides
(all taken from the Theological Dictionary of the NT)If I have misunderstood what you are saying please accept my apologies.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 27 2007,17:00) Hi not3,
Do you realise the first verses and the last verses are about the end of the millenial reign?
If so then do you think that the verses about the begettal apply to that time?
Hey Nick,Do I realise the above statement – mmm nope I don't; you can only presume this is about the end of the millennial reign… it is not even mentioned by Christ but like the Trinity doctrine the writer of Revelation develops this over time. If not I find it strange that such a significant event is not even mentioned by Jesus.
The millennial reign is not mentioned in the OT unless you look at Isaiah 65:17 onwards and stretch it to come up with what you are saying… but even these verses do not sound like the millennial reign mentioned in Revelation because according to it, the new heaven and earth happens after the millennial reign… the only place the 1000 year reign is mentioned is here in Revelation 20… It is kind of like Paul's statement of “baptism for the dead” in 1 Corinthians. A one off mentioned no where else and boy do the Mormons love this verse.
Where does the 1000 year reign teaching come from… not even Jesus taught it – I find this strange as we state that He is the author and perfecter of our faith – was this a theologian's attempt to cover over something that had not happened the way the early church read and thought what the OT prophets and Jesus himself had stated would happen?
Where in this psalm does it say Jesus would come, come again, and then reign 1000 years… it does not but simply states a one-off arrival of the one who would reign as King in Zion.
So you can only presume that you know the Psalmist is writing about the millennial reign and cannot not make concrete statements that what you say is correct.
It only says His Anointed One would reign – it does not say which one – so we must read into the text…
Nick, not even the different versions can agree with upon the wording of this Psalm so how can we make doctrine out of it…
Vulgate says: Embrace discipline, lest He be angry
Targum says: Receive instruction, lest he be angry
Septuagint says: Embrace discipline, lest the LORD be angryLastly, verse 7 says…
I will declare the decree: The Lord has said unto me… who is me, not the Messiah, but the person writing the Psalm – it makes no sense to have the M of me in capitals… because he is declaring what God had said unto him… then the Psalmist said what the Lord had said unto him; God speaking “You are My son, today I have begotten you”.
Laurel Just saying set-apart spirit that I am afraid to use any Translation, because there is so much misunderstanding, that I want to make sure that I am not listening to Demons. Since I came out of the Cath. Church 26 years ago, I always start my Prayers with Heavenly Father God of the Universe maker of Heaven and Earth, I come before your Throne through Jesus Christ our Mediator. The Holy Spirit lives in me and because of it it is possible to do so. It is a personal thing. You have to convince in your mind what you think is right, do you have a scripture that proves that what you are saying is correct. or just a mans interpretation of the use. No disrespect intended, Laurel.
Here is what Holy Spirit means again. The OT was written in Hebrew originally and through out the years has remained in it's pure form. I know this because of the equidistant letter sequence found in the Torah in Hebrew.
In Hebrew the first two books of the Torah which are Genesis and Exodus are written so that every 50th letter consecutively spells “T-O-R-A-H” over and over again throughout the entire two books.
In Hebrew the last two books of the Torah which are Deuteronomy and Numbers, every 50th letter consecutively spells “H-A-R-O-T. Torah backwards.
There four books point to the book of Leviticus which is the heart of the Torah. In Hebrew, every 7th letter consecutively spells “Y-H-W-H” or Ya'weh, through the entire book.
This phenomonon could only have been made possible by Elohim Himself.
When I look for the proper meaning of words in Scripture I refer back to the Hebrew language of the Old Testament.
Romans 3:1 asks: What advantage hath the Jew?
Romans 3:2 answers: Much in every way because unto them were committed the oracles of Elohim.These verses say that the living Word of Elohim was entrusted to the Jew. I trust that it is correct.
Now the Hebrew word Qodesh (Qof-Dalet-Shin) was translated to English as the word Holy. It means Set-apart, sanctified, consecrated, most holy. It is an adjective which discribes.
The Hebrew word Rauch (Resh-Waw-Chet) was translated to English as Spirit. It means breath (including it's expressions and functions). It is a noun and a verb which means a thing and an action.
Set-apart Spirit is just that Set-apart. Capitalized out of respect.
My Bible writes it as such and I've even heard pastors on the radio discribe it as such. My Bible also uses the proper Names written in Hebrew. Y-H-W-H for LORD and Y-H-W-Sh-Uh for Jesus. Even the Names of the prophets are written in their proper form. Yeshiyahu is Isaiah.( יהוה is YHWH and יהושׁע is Y'shua) Hebrew words are read from right to left.
It is good that you are cautious, just don't be foolish. Let the Set-apart Spirit guide you to understanding.
Y'shua says in John 5:43
I have come in my Father's Name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him you will recieve.If you look at their names you will see the first three letters are the same. BTW Jesus is not a Hebrew name and dosen't even translate the same. Y'shua translates to English “Joshua” not Jesus.
Be careful what you believe.
Jodi No I am not that rude to say what you are saying is limiting God. No and I would not say that it is a Mystery, because God has revealed the Mystery of God to the saints.
Ephesians 1:9 “and 3:3-9and 6:19and col.1:26
Neither do I believe in the trinity doctrine. No not just in pure faith either, it says in
1 Thes.5:21 Prove all thingsThe name Jesus was given to Son/Word when He became flesh;
John 1:14 ” And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, …”
The Apostle John is the only one that referrers to the Son as the Word of the Old Testament. The reason, the Son/Word did all the speaking for God, and He only spoke the Word that God gave Him to speak,
John 12:49
Jesus told us that no man at anytime, old or new Testament, has heard Gods Voice,
John 5:37
Since the Son is the one that all things were created by, John 1″3 and Col.1:16, it has to be one and the same.
This also shows that the Son existed from the beginning of creation. He, the Son, is the image of the invisible God, Col.1:15.
An image can not be a thought or an idea in Gods mind.
God is the creator of spirit being and Human beings. We believe that some of us will become spirit beings, which is a change of nature, why then should we doubt that God can change a spirit being, His Son, into a human being. It is a change of nature too.
Christ experience this change twice
John 17:5 ” AND NOW, O FATHER, GLORIFY THOU ME WITH THENE OWN SELF WITH THE GLORY WHICH I HAD WITH THEE BEFORE THE WORLD WAS.”
What is Christ asking His Father? Answer: to give Him back His Glory, spirit nature that He had before He became flesh.
Hebrew 2:7 ” Thou madest Him a little lower then the angels; (the Son became flesh) thou crownedst Him with glory and honor ( Christ ascended into heaven and God gave Him a divine nature, immortality),
and didst set Him over the works of thy hands.
Peace and Love to you Mrs.IM4Truth
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