Preexistence

[GeneBalthrop]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 14 2011,10:29)

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 13 2011,09:27) Here is something to chew on Mike………… No, it's YOUR turn to answer some questions, Gene. Gene, was Jesus able to COMMAND 10,000 angels to take his place on the stake? If so, does it sound like he was lessor than the least one in heaven, like all other men are?

Mike………..Let start by asking a truth full question first, Your answer is (No) Jesus could not have ask 10000 angels to “ TAKE HIS PLACE ON THE STAKE   Your answer to that is NO

Now if you asked was he given power by GOD to call angels to deliver him from death on the stake that would be YES , Just a Moses could open up the sea for the childern of Israel to cross over by the power of God , Jesus could also command the angels by the power given him by GOD the FATHER.  Again your desperate attempts to separate God from Jesus moving his identity away from us all as a pure HUMAN BEING .

peace and love……………………………gene

[942767]

Quote (terraricca @ July 14 2011,10:34)

Quote (942767 @ July 14 2011,17:09) Quote (terraricca @ July 14 2011,08:45) Quote (942767 @ July 14 2011,15:32) Quote (terraricca @ July 14 2011,08:16) Marty Quote The scripture that I quoted from Romans states about Jesus: that he might be the firstborn among many brethren I am not the author of confusion, and with the judgement that you judge your condemn yourself. Love in Christ, Marty Ro 8:1 Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, Ro 8:2 because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death. Ro 8:3 For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the sinful nature, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful man to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in sinful man, Ro 8:4 in order that the righteous requirements of the law might be fully met in us Ro 8:5 Those who live according to the sinful nature have their minds set on what that nature desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. Ro 8:6 The mind of sinful man is death, but the mind controlled by the Spirit is life Ro 8:9 You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ. Ro 8:12 Therefore, brothers, we have an obligation—but it is not to the sinful nature, to live according to it. Ro 8:14 because those who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God. Ro 8:16 The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children. Ro 8:18 I consider that our present sufferings are not worth comparing with the glory that will be revealed in us. in hope Ro 8:21 that the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God. Ro 8:22 We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time. Ro 8:25 But if we hope for what we do not yet have, we wait for it patiently. Ro 8:26 In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groans that words cannot express. Ro 8:28 And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose Ro 8:29 For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. Ro 8:30 And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified. Ro 8:31 What, then, shall we say in response to this? If God is for us, who can be against us? Ro 8:32 He who did not spare his own Son, but gave him up for us all—how will he not also, along with him, graciously give us all things? Ro 8:33 Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies. Ro 8:34 Who is he that condemns? Christ Jesus, who died—more than that, who was raised to life—is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us. Ro 8:35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? Ro 8:36 As it is written: “For your sake we face death all day long; we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered.” Ro 8:37 No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. Ro 8:38 For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, Ro 8:39 neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord. so who are the brothers of Christ? the 144k in Revelation, who his the first in everything ? Christ is ;Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. Col 1:16 For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him. Col 1:17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy. Col 1:19 For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him read it without your own personal religion crap in your mind, let only scriptures talk. Pierre Hi Pierre: You are giving me an opportunity to put into practice the Word of God in many ways. The scripture states that “I should love my enemies, and to do good to those that hate me, and to pray for those who desipitefully use me and persecute me, and to turn the other cheek when someone insults me, and the scripture states that a servant of the Lord shall not strive but to be gentle apt to teach, and all this requires patience, and the Lord is my example. As He has said, Father forgive them for they know not what they do. And the Lord has also said, “Vengeance is mine, I will repay”.  Not that I am looking for vengeance, but I believe that you owe me an apology.  Who are you to talk to me as if I were your dog? Love in Christ, Marty Marty you dragging out side of what you suppose to answer ,and go to something other than what you are trying to teach are you unable to truthfully answer with scriptures ? your comment is irrelevant to what is on hand here . Pierre Hi Pierre: I have already answered your questions relative to these scriptures except for the fact that you want to throw in the 144,000. And you ask:  “Who are the brothers of Christ”? The 144,000? All Christians who have been born again are the brothers of Christ not just the 144,000. The 144,000 are those who have not been defiled through false doctrine, and through whom the church will be corrected in these last days.  The scriptures state that they are virgins (This is speaking of their not commiting spiritual fornication) This is my understanding of the 144,000, and so, now what is your understanding of these? And I will answer any other question that you have relative to the scriptures, but don't speak to me as if I am your dog. I have one Lord who is my master. I have already answered your questions relative to those verses in Colossians which you keep bringing up.  Jesus is the “firstborn of God”.  Prior to him no man had been born of God, but he did not pre-exist his birth into this world as a sentient person.  He was foreordained and was made manifest to humanity in God's timing.  He is the last Adam.  The man who is the “express image of God's person”, and we who are born again and are his disciples are being conformed into his image as we learn to apply the Word of God in our daily lives. If you believe that he pre-existed his birth into this world as a sentient person, then teach what you believe to be the truth, but I do not believe this and I will also teach what I believe to be the truth.  Both you and I are accountable to God for what we teach. Love in Christ, Marty Marty so you have your own personal interpretation of scriptures ,right ? because what you believe is not what all letters of Paul put together are teaching ,right ? or do they ? Pierre

Hi Pierre:

When I read the scriptures, I ask God to give me understanding of what is being said through the scriptures, and so, I can only give you my understanding which you call my own interpretation of the scriptures.

You also have your own interpretation of the scriptures, and apparently we disagree in what is being said, and so, one of us is not correct. I am willing to be corrected if I am wrong, are you?

Of course, I believe all of what the Apostle Paul has written. Did he say that Jesus pre-existed his birth into this world as you claim? If so, produce the scripture and that will be the end of this discussion.

What makes you so positive that because you may have a different understanding of the scriptures relative to this matter that you are correct and I am wrong? Is it possible for you to be the one that is in error?

Let's pray that God will bring us into unity so that we can teach the Word of God in truth. Ultimately, it is He who will confirm who is right and who is wrong.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[terraricca]

Marty

Quote

Hi Pierre: When I read the scriptures, I ask God to give me understanding of what is being said through the scriptures, and so, I can only give you my understanding which you call my own interpretation of the scriptures. You also have your own interpretation of the scriptures, and apparently we disagree in what is being said, and so, one of us is not correct. I am willing to be corrected if I am wrong, are you? Of course, I believe all of what the Apostle Paul has written. Did he say that Jesus pre-existed his birth into this world as you claim? If so, produce the scripture and that will be the end of this discussion. What makes you so positive that because you may have a different understanding of the scriptures relative to this matter that you are correct and I am wrong? Is it possible for you to be the one that is in error? Let's pray that God will bring us into unity so that we can teach the Word of God in truth. Ultimately, it is He who will confirm who is right and who is wrong. Love in Christ, Marty

this is your call but according to your answers to me you have already showed me that you have your own interpretation to the scriptures i have shown you,

if you do not believe Paul would you believe me ?? Paul was a apostles ,I am nobody ,only a man who loves God words and his son with all his heart and soul and strength ,

if the scriptures who are the word of God do not open your eyes why do think that i can ,or that you can open mine ,??

what you think?

Pierre

[942767]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 14 2011,10:23)

Quote (942767 @ July 13 2011,08:59) Is there a “first Adam” according to the scripture? Is Jesus the “Last Adam” according to the scriptures? Did God make man in His Own Image, according to the scriptures? Is Jesus the “Express image of God's person”, according to the scriptures? Hi Marty, YES to all four questions. Quote (942767 @ July 13 2011,08:59) Do you understand the following scriptures? Quote Rom 8:29   For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate [to be] conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Rom 8:30   Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. Absolutely.  But you apparently think they say something that prohibits Jesus from pre-existing, right?  I don't see anything like that in those scriptures.  So lay it on me, man!  Tell me exactly how those scriptures prohibit the pre-existence of Jesus. Oh, and then please address my last point to you.  If you'll remember, you are also aware of the sequential chain of events in Phil 2.  Why then would you try to quash my view by saying the word “before” is not in that passage, when you also realize that “before” is implied? peace, mike

Hi Mike:

If I understand you correctly, you believe that Jesus, before he became a man, was the first creature created by God and then he created everything else that he created through him, and furthermore, you believe this creature was in the “form of God” prior to becoming a man.  Is this an accurate dipiction of what you believe?

Love in Christ,
Marty

[Pastry]

Marty! God is a Spirit Being. Jesus had the same glory then His Father, before He became a man. To be with Almighty God like the Angels, Jesus had to be a Spirit Being also.
Jhn 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
Jhn 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

He was the firstborn of all creation and then through Jesus God created all.

Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether [they be] thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

Rev 3:14 ¶ And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;

Jhn 1:1 ¶ In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Jhn 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.

Jhn 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Most don't want to believe that The Word of God is who became Jesus, however verse 14 and Rev. 19 makes it clear.

Jhn 1:14 ¶ And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Rev 19:13 And he [was] clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

Rev 19:14 And the armies [which were] in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

Rev 19:16 And he hath on [his] vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

Jesus will come back as The Word of God to smite the nations….Malachi makes it clear that Jesus brings a sword and the wrath of God, to bring finally peace on earth, good will to all that are His…..And then God will come down with the new Jerusalem….

Mal 4:1 ¶ For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.

Mal 4:2 But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.

Mal 4:3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do [this], saith the LORD of hosts.

Rev 21:1 ¶ And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

Rev 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God [is] with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, [and be] their God.

To that day I am forever looking forward to….

Peace and Love Irene

[942767]

Quote (Pastry @ July 15 2011,19:55)

Marty!  God is a Spirit Being.  Jesus had the same glory then His Father, before He became a man.  To be with Almighty God like the Angels, Jesus had to be a Spirit Being also.   Jhn 17:4   I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.   Jhn 17:5   And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.   He was the firstborn of all creation and then through Jesus God created all. Col 1:15   Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:   Col 1:16   For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether [they be] thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: Rev 3:14 ¶ And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;   Jhn 1:1 ¶ In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.   Jhn 1:2   The same was in the beginning with God.   Jhn 1:3   All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.   Most don't want to believe that The Word of God is who became Jesus, however verse 14 and Rev. 19 makes it clear. Jhn 1:14 ¶ And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.   Rev 19:13   And he [was] clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.   Rev 19:14   And the armies [which were] in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.   Rev 19:15   And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.   Rev 19:16   And he hath on [his] vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.   Jesus will come back as The Word of God to smite the nations….Malachi makes it clear that Jesus brings a sword and the wrath of God, to bring finally peace on earth, good will to all that are His…..And then God will come down with the new Jerusalem…. Mal 4:1 ¶ For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.   Mal 4:2   But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.   Mal 4:3   And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do [this], saith the LORD of hosts.   Rev 21:1 ¶ And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.   Rev 21:2   And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.   Rev 21:3   And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God [is] with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, [and be] their God.   To that day I am forever looking forward to…. Peace and Love Irene

Hi Irene:

You say:

Quote

Marty! God is a Spirit Being. Jesus had the same glory then His Father, before He became a man. To be with Almighty God like the Angels, Jesus had to be a Spirit Being also.

No, sorry Irene, there is nothing that says that Jesus was a spirit being before he became a man.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[942767]

Quote (terraricca @ July 15 2011,09:02)

Marty Quote Hi Pierre: When I read the scriptures, I ask God to give me understanding of what is being said through the scriptures, and so, I can only give you my understanding which you call my own interpretation of the scriptures. You also have your own interpretation of the scriptures, and apparently we disagree in what is being said, and so, one of us is not correct.  I am willing to be corrected if I am wrong, are you? Of course, I believe all of what the Apostle Paul has written.  Did he say that Jesus pre-existed his birth into this world as you claim?  If so, produce the scripture and that will be the end of this discussion. What makes you so positive that because you may have a different understanding of the scriptures relative to this matter that you are correct and I am wrong?  Is it possible for you to be the one that is in error? Let's pray that God will bring us into unity so that we can teach the Word of God in truth.  Ultimately, it is He who will confirm who is right and who is wrong. Love in Christ, Marty this is your call but according to your answers to me you have already showed me that you have your own interpretation to the scriptures i have shown you, if you do not believe Paul would you believe me ?? Paul was a apostles ,I am nobody ,only a man who loves God words and his son with all his heart and soul and strength , if the scriptures who are the word of God do not open your eyes why do think that i can ,or that you can open mine ,?? what you think? Pierre

Hi Pierre:

When we give our understanding of the scriptures, we should of course believe that our understanding is correct, but God has shown me that we should alway leave room for the possibility that we might be wrong.

And so, that would apply to me as well as to you. I believe that what I am teaching is correct, but I ask God every morning that if I am teaching anything that is not His Word or doing anything that is not His will to correct me. I do not want to teach anything that is not God's Word.

Remember that it could be you that is misunderstanding what the Apostle Paul has said.

Since we don't agree in our understanding of the scriptures, we can pray and ask God to correct either you or me so that we can teach God's Word in truth, and walk in unity. He wrote the scriptures through men, and so, He should know what He said, and so, if you agree to this, we will pray and ask God to bring us into unity.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[Pastry]

Quote

No, sorry Irene, there is nothing that says that Jesus was a spirit being before he became a man.

Marty! Then you tell me who it is in both John 1:14 and Rev. 19:13-16??

Is Jesus not the only begotten of the Father? Because that is what John 1:14 says…..And in Rev.19:13-16

I didn't post those Scriptures before because I thought you would look them up yourself, but here they are
Rev 19:13 And he [was] clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

Rev 19:14 And the armies [which were] in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

Rev 19:16 And he hath on [his] vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

Who is this Marty? and in

Jhn 1:14 ¶ And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Who is the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth??

Peace Irene

[terraricca]

Quote (942767 @ July 16 2011,10:15)

Quote (terraricca @ July 15 2011,09:02) Marty Quote Hi Pierre: When I read the scriptures, I ask God to give me understanding of what is being said through the scriptures, and so, I can only give you my understanding which you call my own interpretation of the scriptures. You also have your own interpretation of the scriptures, and apparently we disagree in what is being said, and so, one of us is not correct.  I am willing to be corrected if I am wrong, are you? Of course, I believe all of what the Apostle Paul has written.  Did he say that Jesus pre-existed his birth into this world as you claim?  If so, produce the scripture and that will be the end of this discussion. What makes you so positive that because you may have a different understanding of the scriptures relative to this matter that you are correct and I am wrong?  Is it possible for you to be the one that is in error? Let's pray that God will bring us into unity so that we can teach the Word of God in truth.  Ultimately, it is He who will confirm who is right and who is wrong. Love in Christ, Marty this is your call but according to your answers to me you have already showed me that you have your own interpretation to the scriptures i have shown you, if you do not believe Paul would you believe me ?? Paul was a apostles ,I am nobody ,only a man who loves God words and his son with all his heart and soul and strength , if the scriptures who are the word of God do not open your eyes why do think that i can ,or that you can open mine ,?? what you think? Pierre Hi Pierre: When we give our understanding of the scriptures, we should of course believe that our understanding is correct, but God has shown me that we should alway leave room for the possibility that we might be wrong. And so, that would apply to me as well as to you.  I believe that what I am teaching is correct, but I ask God every morning that if I am teaching anything that is not His Word or doing anything that is not His will to correct me.  I do not want to teach anything that is not God's Word. Remember that it could be you that is misunderstanding what the Apostle Paul has said. Since we don't agree in our understanding of the scriptures, we can pray and ask God to correct either you or me so that we can teach God's Word in truth, and walk in unity.  He wrote the scriptures through men, and so, He should know what He said, and so, if you agree to this, we will pray and ask God to bring us into unity. Love in Christ, Marty

Marty

you have the wrong conclusion,when you follow scriptures word it is the truth,when you had your interpretation this will contaminate the truth of the word of God

so if what you believe is supported by ALL SCRIPTURES then it is the truth ,IF NOT THEN IT IS A LIE,very simple really,

no negotiation needed

Pierre

[942767]

Quote (terraricca @ July 16 2011,08:32)

Quote (942767 @ July 16 2011,10:15) Quote (terraricca @ July 15 2011,09:02) Marty Quote Hi Pierre: When I read the scriptures, I ask God to give me understanding of what is being said through the scriptures, and so, I can only give you my understanding which you call my own interpretation of the scriptures. You also have your own interpretation of the scriptures, and apparently we disagree in what is being said, and so, one of us is not correct.  I am willing to be corrected if I am wrong, are you? Of course, I believe all of what the Apostle Paul has written.  Did he say that Jesus pre-existed his birth into this world as you claim?  If so, produce the scripture and that will be the end of this discussion. What makes you so positive that because you may have a different understanding of the scriptures relative to this matter that you are correct and I am wrong?  Is it possible for you to be the one that is in error? Let's pray that God will bring us into unity so that we can teach the Word of God in truth.  Ultimately, it is He who will confirm who is right and who is wrong. Love in Christ, Marty this is your call but according to your answers to me you have already showed me that you have your own interpretation to the scriptures i have shown you, if you do not believe Paul would you believe me ?? Paul was a apostles ,I am nobody ,only a man who loves God words and his son with all his heart and soul and strength , if the scriptures who are the word of God do not open your eyes why do think that i can ,or that you can open mine ,?? what you think? Pierre Hi Pierre: When we give our understanding of the scriptures, we should of course believe that our understanding is correct, but God has shown me that we should alway leave room for the possibility that we might be wrong. And so, that would apply to me as well as to you.  I believe that what I am teaching is correct, but I ask God every morning that if I am teaching anything that is not His Word or doing anything that is not His will to correct me.  I do not want to teach anything that is not God's Word. Remember that it could be you that is misunderstanding what the Apostle Paul has said. Since we don't agree in our understanding of the scriptures, we can pray and ask God to correct either you or me so that we can teach God's Word in truth, and walk in unity.  He wrote the scriptures through men, and so, He should know what He said, and so, if you agree to this, we will pray and ask God to bring us into unity. Love in Christ, Marty Marty you have the wrong conclusion,when you follow scriptures word it is the truth,when you had your interpretation this will contaminate the truth of the word of God so if what you believe is supported by ALL SCRIPTURES then it is the truth ,IF NOT THEN IT IS A LIE,very simple really, no negotiation needed Pierre

Hi Pierre:

Then show me where the scripture that states that Jesus pre-existed as a sentient person prior to his birth into this world.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[942767]

Quote (Pastry @ July 16 2011,05:48)

Quote No, sorry Irene, there is nothing that says that Jesus was a spirit being before he became a man. Marty!  Then you tell me who it is in both John 1:14 and Rev. 19:13-16?? Is Jesus not the only begotten of the Father?  Because that is what John 1:14 says…..And in Rev.19:13-16 I didn't post those Scriptures before because I thought you would look them up yourself, but here they are Rev 19:13   And he [was] clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.   Rev 19:14   And the armies [which were] in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.   Rev 19:15   And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.   Rev 19:16   And he hath on [his] vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.   Who is this Marty?  and in Jhn 1:14 ¶ And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.   Who is the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth?? Peace Irene

Hi Mrs:

I have already been over this with you. The Word in John 1:14 is what God has said pertaining to Jesus. There are many prophecies in the OT relative to his coming.

In Revelation 19 “his name” is called the Word of God refers to his authority as the head of the church and the judge of the living and the dead. God exalted him to this postion upon the completion of his ministry on earth.

Revelation 19 is about him executing judgment:

Quote

Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

Quote

Jhn 5:23 That all [men] should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him. Jhn 5:24 ¶ Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. Jhn 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live. Jhn 5:26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself; Jhn 5:27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man. Jhn 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, Jhn 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation. Jhn 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

Quote

Jhn 12:47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. Jhn 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. Jhn 12:49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. Jhn 12:50 And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.

I hope that this helps.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[terraricca]

Quote (942767 @ July 16 2011,19:07)

Quote (terraricca @ July 16 2011,08:32) Quote (942767 @ July 16 2011,10:15) Quote (terraricca @ July 15 2011,09:02) Marty Quote Hi Pierre: When I read the scriptures, I ask God to give me understanding of what is being said through the scriptures, and so, I can only give you my understanding which you call my own interpretation of the scriptures. You also have your own interpretation of the scriptures, and apparently we disagree in what is being said, and so, one of us is not correct.  I am willing to be corrected if I am wrong, are you? Of course, I believe all of what the Apostle Paul has written.  Did he say that Jesus pre-existed his birth into this world as you claim?  If so, produce the scripture and that will be the end of this discussion. What makes you so positive that because you may have a different understanding of the scriptures relative to this matter that you are correct and I am wrong?  Is it possible for you to be the one that is in error? Let's pray that God will bring us into unity so that we can teach the Word of God in truth.  Ultimately, it is He who will confirm who is right and who is wrong. Love in Christ, Marty this is your call but according to your answers to me you have already showed me that you have your own interpretation to the scriptures i have shown you, if you do not believe Paul would you believe me ?? Paul was a apostles ,I am nobody ,only a man who loves God words and his son with all his heart and soul and strength , if the scriptures who are the word of God do not open your eyes why do think that i can ,or that you can open mine ,?? what you think? Pierre Hi Pierre: When we give our understanding of the scriptures, we should of course believe that our understanding is correct, but God has shown me that we should alway leave room for the possibility that we might be wrong. And so, that would apply to me as well as to you.  I believe that what I am teaching is correct, but I ask God every morning that if I am teaching anything that is not His Word or doing anything that is not His will to correct me.  I do not want to teach anything that is not God's Word. Remember that it could be you that is misunderstanding what the Apostle Paul has said. Since we don't agree in our understanding of the scriptures, we can pray and ask God to correct either you or me so that we can teach God's Word in truth, and walk in unity.  He wrote the scriptures through men, and so, He should know what He said, and so, if you agree to this, we will pray and ask God to bring us into unity. Love in Christ, Marty Marty you have the wrong conclusion,when you follow scriptures word it is the truth,when you had your interpretation this will contaminate the truth of the word of God so if what you believe is supported by ALL SCRIPTURES then it is the truth ,IF NOT THEN IT IS A LIE,very simple really, no negotiation needed Pierre Hi Pierre: Then show me where the scripture that states that Jesus pre-existed as a sentient person prior to his birth into this world. Love in Christ, Marty

Marty

your wording you ask did not exit in Paul time;

Origin:
1595–1605; < Latin sentient- (stem of sentiēns, present participle of sentīre to feel), equivalent to senti- verb stem + -ent- -ent

could you show a word more related of the times ?

Pierre

but look at Col;1;13-18

[mikeboll64]

Quote (942767 @ July 14 2011,18:25)

Hi Mike: If I understand you correctly, you believe that Jesus, before he became a man, was the first creature created by God and then he created everything else that he created through him, and furthermore, you believe this creature was in the “form of God” prior to becoming a man. Is this an accurate dipiction of what you believe? Love in Christ, Marty

100% correct, Marty. Because that's 100% what I've learned from the scriptures.

So, go on……………..

[Pastry]

Quote

In Revelation 19 “his name” is called the Word of God refers to his authority as the head of the church and the judge of the living and the dead.  God exalted him to this postion upon the completion of his ministry on earth. Revelation 19 is about him executing judgment:

Marty!  That Scripture does not talk about the Church at all.  It is Col. 1:18 that does.

Col 1:18   And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all [things] he might have the preeminence.  

Rev. 19 talks about Jesus title The Word of God, and King of Kings and Lord of Lords.  He will come again to smite the nations.  To set all straight…..
And you are missing the point about John 1:14 all together ……
What you do is adding to it… I read it like it says……. Peace Irene

[942767]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 16 2011,13:30)

Quote (942767 @ July 14 2011,18:25) Hi Mike: If I understand you correctly, you believe that Jesus, before he became a man, was the first creature created by God and then he created everything else that he created through him, and furthermore, you believe this creature was in the “form of God” prior to becoming a man.  Is this an accurate dipiction of what you believe? Love in Christ, Marty 100% correct, Marty.  Because that's 100% what I've learned from the scriptures. So, go on……………..

Hi Mike:

What scripture states that before Jesus was Jesus he was “the first creature created by God”? And also, please show me the scripture which states what kind of creature he was prior to becoming a man?

And would John 1 then read as follows? In the beginning was the first creature that God created, and that creature was with God, and that creature was in the form of God.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[942767]

Quote (Pastry @ July 16 2011,13:52)

Quote In Revelation 19 “his name” is called the Word of God refers to his authority as the head of the church and the judge of the living and the dead.  God exalted him to this postion upon the completion of his ministry on earth. Revelation 19 is about him executing judgment: Marty!  That Scripture does not talk about the Church at all.  It is Col. 1:18 that does. Col 1:18   And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all [things] he might have the preeminence.   Rev. 19 talks about Jesus title The Word of God, and King of Kings and Lord of Lords.  He will come again to smite the nations.  To set all straight….. And you are missing the point about John 1:14 all together …… What you do is adding to it… I read it like it says……. Peace Irene

Hi Mrs:

It does not matter whether or not the scriptures in Revelation state that Jesus is the head of the church. It is established that he is the head of the church, and that he is the judge of the living and the dead.

Is this correct or not?

And yes, he has the title The Word of God, and the King of kings and the Lord of Lords.

But I have already showed you by the scriptures that he is not the Word of God, but he obeyed the Word of God even unto death on the cross, and will judge all men by this Word which God has spoken through him.

Here let me show you what he said again:

Quote

Jhn 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: Jhn 5:27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man. Jhn 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me. Jhn 12:47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. Jhn 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. Jhn 12:49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. Jhn 12:50 And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.

The Greek Word in John 1:14 is Logos which means “What God has spoken”. This Word pertains to Jesus and it was made a reality when Jesus was conceived of the Holy Ghost in the womb of the virgin Mary. notice that John 1:14 states that the Word or Logos became or was made flesh. It does not state that Jesus became flesh. And John 1 reads in the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God. (It does not read in the beginning was Jesus and Jesus was with God and Jesus became flesh.)

Revelation 19 is speaking of Jesus coming with his saints to execute judgement on those who accepted the Mark of the Beast. These are those people who were not saved and were alive at his coming for the church.

Quote

Rev 19:19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army. Rev 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. Rev 19:21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which [sword] proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[GeneBalthrop]

Marty…………The problem you have with Mike is He forces the text to fit his preconceived false understandings, like saying God was like a giant basket ball and Jesus was a black dot out side the basket ball, and flailing all along to understand that God was (IN) Jesus Just as Jesus Said He  was, GOD Lives (IN) and through His Creation, not separate of it, he is it's life source both now and for ever will be. “THAT GOD MAY BE ALL AND IN YOU ALL”. he  is unable to comprehend that becasue his GOD live external of Him and everyone else including Jesus. He does not understand what LOGOS Is Just as Paladin has shown Him so he is like a blind man groping at the wall and trying to drag others with him. IMO

peace and love…………………………………………………gene

[mikeboll64]

Quote (942767 @ July 22 2011,14:54)

What scripture states that before Jesus was Jesus he was “the first creature created by God”?

Col 1:15.  Rev 3:14.  Proverbs 8:22.  Etc.

Quote (942767 @ July 22 2011,14:54)

And also, please show me the scripture which states what kind of creature he was prior to becoming a man?

Phil 2

Quote (942767 @ July 22 2011,14:54)

And would John 1 then read as follows?  In the beginning was the first creature that God created, and that creature was with God, and that creature was in the form of God.

It would then read the same way it has always read:
In the beginning was the Word (who was the first creature God ever created), and the Word was with THE God, and the Word was himself a god.

mike

[GeneBalthrop]

Mike…………It doesn't say GOd created the LOGOS it say IT was in the Beginning becasue the LOGOS is GOD, it can  not be separated from GOD now or ever, it was GOD the Father who was (IN) Jesus Just as Jesus said He WAS. “the son of man can do (NOTHING) of himself “The Father (IN) me (HE) does the works . When are you going to start to believe this Mike. God was truly (IN) Jesus the LOGOS who was GOD was (IN) Jesus. Even Thomas finally came to understand it. “MY Lord (AND) MY GOD”. So when are you Mike going to understand this Mike ?

peace and love………………………………………….gene

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 24 2011,11:02)

When are you going to start to believe this Mike.

As soon as YOU show me a scripture that says the Logos “came to be IN someone who WAS flesh”. So………………when exactly will YOU do THAT?

1:14 says the Word BECAME flesh Gene. If the Word WAS God, the God HIMSELF became a flesh and blood human being. Is that what you think? Because that is the only alternative aside from adding your own words into the scriptures until they teach what you want them to teach.

[Author]

Posts