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WOW – we will have to agree to disagree (again)
What about the scripture that shows the supposed meeting between God and Jesus? The one where Jesus agreed to come to earth? Where would I find those scriptures? Thanks.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 27 2007,12:00) Why do you rate the role of mother so low? Jesus is the monogenes son-of God alone as an image, not through Mary.
Nick, look at these two sentences of yours.
Who is discrediting Mary in the conception process?Ha – I'm out for now – have a good night Nick.
Hi not3,
Christ was not just a son of man born of woman.
He was the monogenes son first.
Phil 2 shows he came by his consent.Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 27 2007,12:00) Hi not3,
Really?
Why do you rate the role of mother so low?through Mary.
He was sent into the world.Jesus is the monogenes son-of God alone as an image, notThus is became also a physical son of God by the Spirit too.
He came to lay down his life for us.
Jn 10
17Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.18No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.
Nick…..and were not made in the image of God?.what is your meaning of monogenes do you imply THE ONLY
BEGOTTEN is meant by monogenes. If you are it can be proven the this text should read uniquely begotten not only begotten, for many reasons one of which is that all things are begotten of God in Heaven and earth, both good and evil all things are begotten, nothing came into existence by it' self except the Father only, who is the only true GOD.why not just use the word the text uses and stay with that. I believe you use the monogenes to seperate Jesus and our exact likesness, and that is not scriptual. thanks gene
Hi Gene,
The unique monogenes son was sent into the world.
He came from heaven and went back.
He is the one who ascended and descended.Prov 30
“4Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his name, and what is his son's name, if thou canst tell?5Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.
6Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 27 2007,12:39) Hi not3,
Christ was not just a son of man born of woman.
He was the monogenes son first.
Phil 2 shows he came by his consent.
nick..phl2 does not show he prexisted the words are incorrectly translated and any Greek interlinerar translation will show the word (exsisted) should be (existing)which is his present state not his past state. He now existes in the form of God, and whats that, he is now a spirit being just like the angles are and we will aslo be.
He is not now trying to rob God to make himself equal with Him as satan and others are trying to do to day.by saying he is or (WAS) God. think about it….geneNick ….are you not adding to his word by saying monogenes all the time.. and by denying that where it say's the word ,was with God and was GOD means someone other then the true GOD Himself. If you say Jesus (was God) then just say he was God himself, quit beatting around the bush……thanks gene
Hi Gene,
Monogenes is badly translated 'only begotten'.Does Jn 1 say the Word was the true God?
Do not add.Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 27 2007,13:43) Hi Gene,
He is the begotten son of God alone
and that does not mean
God and woman.
Nick…when did this begettle take place, was it before he came to earth or when he was born on earth or when he was baptized.and cant we all say the same thing, lets see when was I begotten, was it when GOD foreknow me, or when I was born by my mother, or when I was baptized and recieved The Father's spirit.
I believe I was perordained by God and Manifested by my Mother and was adopted and born of MY Heavenly Father, which is what happened to my Brother, Jesus. thanks…gene
Hi Gene
Psalm 2:7
I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.God said it
The Son heard him
No mother is mentionedQuote (Nick Hassan @ July 27 2007,13:54) Hi Gene,
Monogenes is badly translated 'only begotten'.Does Jn 1 say the Word was the true God?
Do not add.
Nick… if it badly translated what should it be then, my sources say it should be uniquly begotten.Nick does 1 John say he wasn't God, your saying the word wasn't God, not me or John.
thanks …gene
Hi Gene,
Indeed I believe he was uniquely begotten, of God alone.
Does it say he was God the Father, the One true God?Nick…we can all say we are uniquly begotten by God alone infact the whole creation has been uniquely begotten. every time i see a creation of God I think that . We are uniquely begotten by The Father who is the ONLY GOD. and who WAS the ONLY GOD.
remember when Jesus told us how to pray, He said OUR FATHER who art in Heaven, not Just his, but ours also. Jesus was born from above when the voice of God uttered ” You are my uniqiely begotten son, THIS DAY I have begotten you, not in some past time as his prexistence would require him to have been. I know Jesus was preordained like Peter Said, but a preordination does equal preexistence. Just as it say's about Jeremiah the Prophet it say's about Jesus. He was preordained and was Manifested and Jesus was preordained and was also Manifested in our time. If Peter was meanning Jesus prexexisted He would have simply said it and if John meant Jesus was the Woed he would simply said Jesus was and is the word, it's just that simple to me.
I don't need to change any thing John said it fits right just like it's written and i accept it that way, the only ones changing it are trying to force the text to creat another diety or God. thanks geneHi Gene,
Only one is called monogenes.
He is the monogenes son who was sent into the world.
We should not add the word to creation.
Jeremiah was not sent into the world but the Word became flesh and dwelt among us.
John saw his glory, the glory as of the monogenes FROM the Father.Nick …. do you not say He (WAS) God and God said He is the same today and yesterday and forever. So if you say he i.e. Jesus (WAS) THEN WHY NOT WORSHIP HIM AS A GOD. How is what you are saying any different then trinitarians say?.
and the word monogenes< I have never seen in the scriptures it your word you us to back up your belief system.
Hi Gene,
By emptying himself and coming and partaking of flesh do you think he was altered?
Satan is the god of this world in scripture but should we worship him too?Nick ….John saw Jesus as uniquely begotten (he was born from a women who did have sex to beget him) this was unique no one else had been born that way. Why wouldn't he think that was unique, i certianly do. this is how Jesus was born into the world and how he begain life. You have no proof of any activity of Jesus before His birth as a human, if you do produce it. what was he doing pryer to his human existence . John said if you do not confess Jesus as comming in the flesh you are not of God.
John had a problem with gnostics who believed Jesus (WAS a GOD) whom the Almighty God sent out from the palura to save the world. He also had the antiadoptinest who change many scriptures to try to defy Jesus.by changeing things like (only begotten from uniquely begotten) in three places inthe scriptures. So John enforced the idea that Jesus came into existence through the flesh, by making the statement, that whoever did not confess Jesus as comming in flesh was not of GOD. why do you think he mentioned this three times.
thanks ….geneQuote (IM4Truth @ July 27 2007,08:10) Hi Jodi I will try to answer your question
The only one that uses the expression (Word) to describe the Son is John in His gospel.
The reason He titles the Son as the Word is because He was the Spokesman for God.
John 5:37 ” And the Father Himself, who send Me has testified of Me. You have neither heard His Voice at anytime nor seen His Form.”Anytime in the Old Testament when you read
God said, or the LORD said, it was either an Angel or the Word/Son that spoke.
The reason He is referred to as the Word is, He only spoke what the Father told Him to say.
John 8:28 ” Then said Jesus on to them, when ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.”
John 12:49 ” For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which send me, He gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.”The Word/Son of the O.T. is the same Son that became like us in the N.T.
Mrs,IM4Truth
Thank you for responding, I am glad you are still hanging-on in/with this thread.So where does John ever say that the Word WAS Jesus in the OT?
Where in the OT does it say that the Son spoke to the people on behalf of God?
Aren’t these all assumptions?
John 5:37 ” And the Father Himself, who send Me has testified of Me. You have neither heard His Voice at anytime nor seen His Form
John 8:28 ” Then said Jesus on to them, when ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.”
John 12:49 ” For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which send me, He gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.”These scriptures mention nothing of Jesus being God’s word in the OT, and they are clearly talking about Jesus speaking to the people while he lived on earth.
Is there any actual biblical proof that a pre-existent Jesus spoke the word of God in the OT?
IM 4 Truth, you said,” Word/Son of the O.T. is the same Son that became like us in the N.T”
I have a problem seeing how a pre-existing being, could be in some way the same person as what began in Mary’s womb.
They certainly are not the same PHYSICALLY, and they certainly are not the same Mentally- so how in the world, if Jesus was a human being could they be the same person, or even part of the same person?
Please explain this phenomenon to me. I’m guessing the answer will be something like that of the Trinity doctrine, ‘it’s a mystery, and something we have to believe in on pure faith.’ Of course I might also be told that I am limiting God again.
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