Preexistence

[terraricca]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Feb. 19 2011,08:42)

Terricca…………> Again you misquote scripture, it does not say man became a “living being” , but a living Nahesh (SOUL)> Know wonder we can never come to any understanding here you people change scripture to meet you own concepts.  Adam before he was a Living Soul was a Dead Soul. A Soul can PARISH (be completely destroyed) in the GRAVE , as Jesus said it could.  If i take either one Spirit or Body from a person that person is no longer a living SOUL. God can simply leave us in the Grave and we are gone for ever. Mystery Religion want us to believe a Soul is Separate from our Bodies when in fact it is not separate from a Body. peace and love……………………………………….gene

gene

yes it is SOUL in some version it says being ,agree but this does not change anything.
as for the understanding of what is witch see my comment ,

Pierre

[terraricca]

Quote (Baker @ Feb. 19 2011,10:32)

Pierre!  Lets take one Scripture at the time that YOU quoted Gen 1:26 ¶ And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. NOTHING ABOUT THE SOUL. Gen 5:3   And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat [a son] in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth: NOTHING ABOUT THE SOUL Gen 9:6   Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.   NOTHING ABOUT THE SOUL 2Cr 4:3   But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: NOTHING ABOUT THE SOUL Isa 40:18 ¶ To whom then will ye liken God? or what likeness will ye compare unto him?   AGAIN NOTHING ABOUT THE SOUL. Those that are under the Altar are sleeping in  their graves, it is meant as a METAPHOR.  They are bodies…. Why are you giving us all those Scriptures that have nothing to do with Soul?? Peace Irene

Irene

you did not understand what I was commenting on,read my comment again ,the one I addressed to Kerwin and You.

and understand what i talking about,i think you jump to your own conclusion.

Pierre

[GeneBalthrop]

Terricca………..if you look long enough you can find any thing to meet your own person views. Jesus plainly said a soul can be destroyed in the Grave. When a man dies (HIS) thoughts PARISH, that mean he is no longer a thinking living being he is dead , and will remain that way until GOD, if he Choses to reconstructs and raise up a Body with his DNA and Add Spirit back into it, and then he will again become a LIVING SOUL> Just that simple nothing Mystery about it simple and clear. Jesus would still be Dead if GOd did not resurect his Body and Add Spirit back into it. IMO

peace and love………………………………………………gene

[Baker]

Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 19 2011,10:25)

Quote (Baker @ Feb. 19 2011,10:32) Pierre!  Lets take one Scripture at the time that YOU quoted Gen 1:26 ¶ And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. NOTHING ABOUT THE SOUL. Gen 5:3   And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat [a son] in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth: NOTHING ABOUT THE SOUL Gen 9:6   Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.   NOTHING ABOUT THE SOUL 2Cr 4:3   But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: NOTHING ABOUT THE SOUL Isa 40:18 ¶ To whom then will ye liken God? or what likeness will ye compare unto him?   AGAIN NOTHING ABOUT THE SOUL. Those that are under the Altar are sleeping in  their graves, it is meant as a METAPHOR.  They are bodies…. Why are you giving us all those Scriptures that have nothing to do with Soul?? Peace Irene Irene you did not understand what I was commenting on,read my comment again ,the one I addressed to Kerwin and You. and understand what i talking about,i think you jump to your own conclusion. Pierre

Pierre! Funny, I jump to a conclusion? What I showed you what your Scriptures say about the Soul. The one comment you made, you interpret wrong. It did not say in Genesis– body. It said Soul. All other Scriptures had nothing to do with Soul….. You also never explain what you are trying to say as far as your comment is concern. I and others have to guess….. Be more clearer….The one Scripture in Math. contradicts all other Scriptures. I has asked Georg about that one, but I don;t quiet understand that. As far as the image goes, it is the Spirit in us that we have, not the body or Soul…. God is Spirit…..not body which is the Soul, both Genesis and Ezekiel says so……not my saying, but the Scriptures….
Peace Irene

[terraricca]

Quote (Baker @ Feb. 19 2011,20:36)

Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 19 2011,10:25) Quote (Baker @ Feb. 19 2011,10:32) Pierre!  Lets take one Scripture at the time that YOU quoted Gen 1:26 ¶ And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. NOTHING ABOUT THE SOUL. Gen 5:3   And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat [a son] in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth: NOTHING ABOUT THE SOUL Gen 9:6   Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.   NOTHING ABOUT THE SOUL 2Cr 4:3   But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: NOTHING ABOUT THE SOUL Isa 40:18 ¶ To whom then will ye liken God? or what likeness will ye compare unto him?   AGAIN NOTHING ABOUT THE SOUL. Those that are under the Altar are sleeping in  their graves, it is meant as a METAPHOR.  They are bodies…. Why are you giving us all those Scriptures that have nothing to do with Soul?? Peace Irene Irene you did not understand what I was commenting on,read my comment again ,the one I addressed to Kerwin and You. and understand what i talking about,i think you jump to your own conclusion. Pierre Pierre!  Funny, I jump to a conclusion?  What I showed you what your Scriptures say about the Soul.  The one comment you made, you interpret wrong.  It did not say in Genesis– body.  It said Soul.  All other Scriptures had nothing to do with Soul….. You also never explain what you are trying to say as far as your comment is concern.  I and others have to guess….. Be more clearer….The one Scripture in Math. contradicts all other Scriptures.  I has asked Georg about that one, but I don;t quiet understand that.  As far as the image goes, it is the Spirit in us that we have, not the body or Soul…. God is Spirit…..not body which is the Soul, both Genesis and Ezekiel says so……not my saying, but the Scriptures…. Peace Irene

Irene

i have ask 8 questions and you did not answer one,

and i have answer Gene about soul in Gen 2;7

what all those scriptures mention is about the soul and man creation.

so would you answer my questions ,

with scriptures

Pierre

[kerwin]

To all,

In some of the scriptures mentioning “soul” we see that the people of Genesis spoke in the third person about themselves using “my soul” to mean “I” such as in Genesis 19:20, Genesis 49:6, and Genesis 27:4. This could just mean that they considered that the soul the most crucial part of them.

In Genesis 34:3 and Genesis 34:8 we learn a soul longs, is strongly drawn, to another.

In Genesis 35:18 we learn the soul departs with death. So it does not die nor is it laid in the grave.

Souls can be afflicted, Leviticus 16:29, and atoned for, Leviticus 17:11.

A soul can abhor God’s judgment.

[kerwin]

Gene,

You should consider what the Hebrew words translated to “heart” and “soul” in Deuteronomy 6:5 mean.

The word translated to “heart” is “lebab” and is defined to mean:

1.inner man, mind, will, heart, soul, understanding
a.inner part, midst
1.midst (of things)
2.heart (of man)
3.soul, heart (of man)
4.mind, knowledge, thinking, reflection, memory
5.inclination, resolution, determination (of will)
6.conscience
7.heart (of moral character)
8.as seat of appetites
9.as seat of emotions and passions 1a
2.as seat of courage

The word translated “soul” is “nephesh” and is defined to mean:

1.soul, self, life, creature, person, appetite, mind, living being, desire, emotion, passion
a.that which breathes, the breathing substance or being, soul, the inner being of man
b.living being
c.living being (with life in the blood)
d.the man himself, self, person or individual
e.seat of the appetites
f.seat of emotions and passions
g.activity of mind
1.dubious
h.activity of the will
1.dubious
i.activity of the character
1.dubious
The correct definition is gleaned from the context where it is used.

I have not learned the word translated “strength” by the King James Version’s translators.
Reference

De 6:5(KJV)

And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.

Note: I used an online Lexicon but did not notice which one. It seemed to me, from my memory, to be the one at searchgodsword.org.

[GeneBalthrop]

Kerwin…….> the SOUL is the (COMPLETE) man , his body and the spirit in it, the complete person, and therefore could be spoken in all those way you mentioned. A living Soul is a Complete being with matter (flesh) THAT CONTAINS SPIRIT. There is no other third part of a man. Many times the word Heart is rendered mind in scripture it all means the way a person thinks and the way he thinks is Spirit (intellect) that can be derived from the world or from God or both. Scripture even shows Animals are living Souls as well as Fish and Foul, all flesh that has life in it is a living soul. You view complicates and add a MYSTERY Element to the word of GOD Concerning this. IMO

peace and love to you and yours……………………………………..gene

[Baker]

Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 18 2011,15:39)

Quote (Baker @ Feb. 18 2011,22:20) Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 18 2011,09:04) Irene Gen 2:7   And the LORD God formed man [of] the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. did God made a body for the spirit soul and then ,breath of live and became a living soul ?? Pierre Pierre! You are not understanding what that Scripture in Genesis is saying……God breathed into man and He became a living Soul….. The body is the same then the Soul.  The Spirit is not the Soul…. Ask yourself what will die?  Is it not the body? Eze 18:4   Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die. From dust you came, and to dust you will return….. The Spirit goes back to God…. If it would not be for Jesus, who is our ransom we would stay dead….. Peace and Love Irene Irene if the body is the soul ,then what is the spirit ,and like T8 shows in revelation all the souls under the altar ?? I ask;what is the Body ? what is the spirit ? which is the image ? Pierre

Pierre! If you mean these questions, I gave you scriptures that show what the Soul is.

Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man [of] the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

The form or the body of man is the Soul according to this.

And I think that you should know what the Spirit is, like God…..or it explains it in math. its like the wind….

The Souls under the altar are bodies. .The are sleeping in their graves, they do not talk….. it is a parable….. nothing else…..just like in

Eze 18:4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

The Spirit goes back to God, it is not the Soul, the Spirit does not die.

Peace Irene

Peace Irene

[terraricca]

Quote (Baker @ Feb. 20 2011,17:02)

Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 18 2011,15:39) Quote (Baker @ Feb. 18 2011,22:20) Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 18 2011,09:04) Irene Gen 2:7   And the LORD God formed man [of] the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. did God made a body for the spirit soul and then ,breath of live and became a living soul ?? Pierre Pierre! You are not understanding what that Scripture in Genesis is saying……God breathed into man and He became a living Soul….. The body is the same then the Soul.  The Spirit is not the Soul…. Ask yourself what will die?  Is it not the body? Eze 18:4   Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die. From dust you came, and to dust you will return….. The Spirit goes back to God…. If it would not be for Jesus, who is our ransom we would stay dead….. Peace and Love Irene Irene if the body is the soul ,then what is the spirit ,and like T8 shows in revelation all the souls under the altar ?? I ask;what is the Body ? what is the spirit ? which is the image ? Pierre Pierre!  If you mean these questions, I gave you scriptures that show what the Soul is.   Gen 2:7   And the LORD God formed man [of] the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.   The form or the body of man is the Soul according to this. And I think that you should know what the Spirit is, like God…..or it explains it in math. its like the wind…. The Souls under the altar are bodies.  .The are sleeping in their graves, they do not talk….. it is a parable….. nothing else…..just like in Eze 18:4   Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.   The Spirit goes back to God, it is not the Soul, the Spirit does not die. Peace Irene Peace Irene

Irene

I have open a new topic THE SOUL because this one is preexistence;

so you will find my questions back there ,

Pierre

[kerwin]

Pierre,

Thank you for oppening a new topic about souls. I plan on posting there.

[terraricca]

Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 22 2011,22:00)

Pierre, Thank you for oppening a new topic about souls.  I plan on posting there.

[Baker]

bumped up for Paladin….

[Wispring]

Hi everyone,
OK. Try this line of reason on for size.
1.) The Body is a thing
2.) The Spirit is a thing
3.) The Living Soul is a definition or description of what occurs when thing #1 and #2 are combined by Gods doing.

With Love and Respect,
Wispring

[GeneBalthrop]

Wispring ………….You have it right, a BODY + SPIRIT = a SOUL Just that simple, any separation of these and a Soul no longer exists.

peace and love………………………………………………..gene

[kerwin]

Quote (Wispring @ Mar. 22 2011,10:28)

Hi everyone, OK. Try this line of reason on for size. 1.) The Body is a thing 2.) The Spirit is a thing 3.) The Living Soul is a definition or description of what occurs when thing #1 and #2 are combined by Gods doing.                                                     With Love and Respect,                                                          Wispring

What does that have to do with preexistence?

I disagree and why I disagree is in the thread on soul. If you wish to hear what flaws I percieve in your reasoning then ask me there. If not then so be it.

[Wispring]

Now what I would like you to do is float this line of reason up against all the scripture you wish in the bible and see if it has any leaks.

With Love and Respect,
Wispring

[kerwin]

I already have and showed the flaws in it. I plan on bumping some of the reasoning in the Soul thread where, if the Lord so wills, I am heading next.

[Wispring]

To All,
I presented my “line of reason” in the wrong thread. Please do not respond to it here. Please respond to it in the “Soul” thread. Sorry about that!

With Love and Respect,
Wispring

[mikeboll64]

I was on it Kerwin! I just didn't get here in time.

[Author]

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