Preexistence

[Proclaimer]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 07 2011,08:06)

Okay Marty. But still that doesn't answer my point. You can not “empty yourself” if you were never “full”, right? You can not “make yourself of no reputation” if you didn't already have a reputation to start with. Word it however you like, but the fact remains that one can not “lower himself” unless he was higher in the first place. So what I'm asking is: WHEN did Jesus have the “grand reputation” before he “made himself of no reputation”? mike

Looking forward to your answer on this Marty.

[GeneBalthrop]

Quote (t8 @ Feb. 07 2011,13:58)

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Feb. 04 2011,02:42) Marty……..You have it right Jesus did (NOT) PREEXIST His berth on earth as a sentential being of any kind, he existed only in the Plan and Will of GOD, Besides your own understanding, show us a scripture that says that he existed (only in the mind of God).

T8……..Show us a scripture that describes the (FROM) of GOD if you can. GOD has no FORM he is SPIRIT Jesus existed (past tense)with the Spirit of GOD (IN) Him and therefore Had the NATURE of GOD (IN) Him as a result of that Spirit of GOD that was (IN) Him , we also can Have that (SAME) Nature (IN) Us that he Had in HIM and we are not to think because we have it we are better then anyone else as Jesus did to. That was Jesus' attitude and it needs to be ours also, those who (NOW) have GOD Spirit in them exist with the Nature of God (IN) them just as Jesus did when he was on earth. No difference ONE GOD IN ALL AND THROUGH ALL. When are you people going to begin to understand this?.

peace and love…………………………………gene

[GeneBalthrop]

Quote (t8 @ Feb. 07 2011,14:00)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 07 2011,08:06) Okay Marty.  But still that doesn't answer my point.  You can not “empty yourself” if you were never “full”, right? You can not “make yourself of no reputation” if you didn't already have a reputation to start with. Word it however you like, but the fact remains that one can not “lower himself” unless he was higher in the first place. So what I'm asking is:  WHEN did Jesus have the “grand reputation” before he “made himself of no reputation”? mike Looking forward to your answer on this Marty.

T8…….saying you can't empty yourself of some thing is not true , for instance if i were a general of a large army , could i empty myself of the and take on the role of a common solider, yes i could and Jesus could do the same that does not make him a preexistence anything, it just represents his attitude of the loving nature of God in him for us and GOD. You can not prove any preexistence from those verses at all. T8 be careful you also are attempting to (SEPARATE) JESUS' identity from us and causing a separation in his relationship with us. Jesus is said to be a son of man 87 times in scriptures He is also said to be the son of GOD and We Are also said to be sons of GOD to. You should not try to separate Jesus from your own identity as a fellow human being. IMO

peace and love……………………………………..gene

[gollamudi]

Good thoughts brother Gene. The problem with Phil 2 is Paul was nowhere near this so called preexistence' divinity of Jesus. In fact he was talking about Jesus' human example than that of preexisting God-man. Brother Mike talks about so called gods which Paul quoted for proving that there is no other God but God the Father even Jesus who is called Lord no where near that terminology. Christianity made mess of these troubling words of NT writers and invented a New religion of Polytheism than True Monotheism of Hebrew Bible. I feel Christianity is no better than my Hinduism which also claims that god Vishnu left heaven and taken not one avatar (incarnation) but as many as Ten avatars to save mankind especially the humble and to punish the wicked. I think preexistence of Messiah is nothing but Paganism which can not be supported by Hebrew Bible.

Love and peace to you
Adam

[Baker]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Feb. 07 2011,16:03)

Quote (t8 @ Feb. 07 2011,13:58) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Feb. 04 2011,02:42) Marty……..You have it right Jesus did (NOT) PREEXIST His berth on earth as a sentential being of any kind, he existed only in the Plan and Will of GOD, Besides your own understanding, show us a scripture that says that he existed (only in the mind of God). T8……..Show us a scripture that describes the (FROM) of GOD if you can. GOD has no FORM he is SPIRIT Jesus existed  (past tense)with the Spirit of GOD (IN) Him and therefore Had the NATURE of GOD (IN) Him as a result of that Spirit of GOD that was (IN) Him , we also can Have that (SAME) Nature (IN) Us that he Had in HIM and we are not to think because we have it we are better then anyone else as Jesus did to. That was Jesus' attitude and it needs to be ours also, those who (NOW) have GOD Spirit in them exist with the Nature of God (IN) them just as Jesus did when he was on earth. No difference ONE GOD IN ALL AND THROUGH ALL. When are you people going to begin to understand this?. peace and love…………………………………gene

But yet Scripture says in
Phl 2:5 ¶ Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:

Phl 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

Phl 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

notice verse 6 “WHO BEING IN THE FORM OF GOD” and then it says that….,AND TOOK UPON HIM THE FORM OF A SERVANT, AND, AND AND WAS MADE, WAS MADE IN THE LIKENESS, IN THE LIKENESS OF MEN, OF MEN……..

plain and simple………and was made….if Jesus was already in the likeness of men, He would not be made in the likeness of men…plain and simple….will all of you get that?? Or are you Gene just going to label us again……

Peace and Love Irene

[theodorej]

Quote (Baker @ Feb. 02 2011,05:27)

Theo!  And that Word of God became flesh, and will come back to strike the nation…..is that Jehovah God too?   Not all when it says Word is Jehovah God 's Word, why is it that you and others can't see the compassion.  that is what we are debating here on this tread.  However to say that the Holy Spirit is the Word of God , is far out…..that makes it sound like a person, because that Word became flesh….. The Holy Spirit became flesh?? Peace Irene

Greetings Irene…..Your point is well taken and in principle you are correct….The spirit of the Eternal is all the majesty,wonder and POWER that is God…His Word was the means by which he created all that is….This means that he did not have to physically create anything….He just merely spoke the Word and it was and it was good.So I view the Eternal Father as the one God who created all that is through his Word and his power eminates from his spiritual state…As limited as my knowledge of God is…to me this makes sense….

[Baker]

Quote (theodorej @ Feb. 07 2011,23:52)

Quote (Baker @ Feb. 02 2011,05:27) Theo!  And that Word of God became flesh, and will come back to strike the nation…..is that Jehovah God too?   Not all when it says Word is Jehovah God 's Word, why is it that you and others can't see the compassion.  that is what we are debating here on this tread.  However to say that the Holy Spirit is the Word of God , is far out…..that makes it sound like a person, because that Word became flesh….. The Holy Spirit became flesh?? Peace Irene Greetings Irene…..Your point is well taken and in principle you are correct….The spirit of the Eternal is all the majesty,wonder and POWER that is God…His Word was the means by which he created all that is….This means that he did not have to physically create anything….He just merely spoke the Word and it was and it was good.So I view the Eternal Father as the one God who created all that is through his Word and his power eminates from his spiritual state…As limited as my knowledge of God is…to me this makes sense….

Hi Theo!  What you are forgetting however, that we have another scripture that tells us, that the Word of God, is not only the spoken Word of Almighty God. I don't remember if I already said all of this before, but if not here it is again…..And remember it is scripture…….

Rev 19:13   And he [was] clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.  

Rev 19:14   And the armies [which were] in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.  

Rev 19:15   And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.  

Rev 19:16   And he hath on [his] vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.  

IMO we should all know who this is….?  It is Jesus Christ, and by Jesus Almighty God created all.  

Jhn 1:1 ¶ In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.  

Jhn 1:2   The same was in the beginning with God.  

Jhn 1:3   All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.  

Col 1:15   Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:  

Col 1:16   For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether [they be] thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him

In Genesis it says “Let us create man in our image.” I believe it is Almighty God with Yeshua( Jesus, The Word of God )…

I also believe that God and The Word of God are titles….

Peace Irene

[theodorej]

Quote (Baker @ Feb. 08 2011,01:15)

Quote (theodorej @ Feb. 07 2011,23:52) Quote (Baker @ Feb. 02 2011,05:27) Theo!  And that Word of God became flesh, and will come back to strike the nation…..is that Jehovah God too?   Not all when it says Word is Jehovah God 's Word, why is it that you and others can't see the compassion.  that is what we are debating here on this tread.  However to say that the Holy Spirit is the Word of God , is far out…..that makes it sound like a person, because that Word became flesh….. The Holy Spirit became flesh?? Peace Irene Greetings Irene…..Your point is well taken and in principle you are correct….The spirit of the Eternal is all the majesty,wonder and POWER that is God…His Word was the means by which he created all that is….This means that he did not have to physically create anything….He just merely spoke the Word and it was and it was good.So I view the Eternal Father as the one God who created all that is through his Word and his power eminates from his spiritual state…As limited as my knowledge of God is…to me this makes sense…. Hi Theo!  What you are forgetting however, that we have another scripture that tells us, that the Word of God, is not only the spoken Word of Almighty God.  I don't remember if I already said all of this before, but if not here it is again…..And remember it is scripture……. Rev 19:13   And he [was] clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.   Rev 19:14   And the armies [which were] in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.   Rev 19:15   And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.   Rev 19:16   And he hath on [his] vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.   IMO we should all know who this is….?  It is Jesus Christ, and by Jesus Almighty God created all.   Jhn 1:1 ¶ In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.   Jhn 1:2   The same was in the beginning with God.   Jhn 1:3   All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.   Col 1:15   Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:   Col 1:16   For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether [they be] thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him In Genesis it says “Let us create man in our image.” I believe it is Almighty God with Yeshua( Jesus, The Word of God )… I also believe that God and The Word of God are titles…. Peace Irene

Amen Irene!!!…. As John so plainly said… that the Christ Jesus was indeed the word and the word was with God and lived among us….In addition we see in Revelation he will be returning as not only a king but a conquerer…

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Feb. 07 2011,16:15)

for instance if i were a general of a large army , could i empty myself of the and take on the role of a common solider,

Yes Gene,

But that only proves MY point. WHEN was Jesus “the General” before he emptied himself to become a common foot soldier?

WHEN, Gene?

And I'm STILL waiting for an answer to how someone who was already a human being could be made in the likeness of a human being.

peace and love,
mike

[mikeboll64]

Quote (gollamudi @ Feb. 07 2011,20:10)

The problem with Phil 2 is Paul was nowhere near this so called preexistence' divinity of Jesus.

Hi Adam,

What if we add in a couple other things Paul said about it?

Romans 1:3 NIV
regarding his Son, who as to his human nature was a descendant of David,

Romans 8:3 NIV
For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the sinful nature, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful man to be a sin offering.

Romans 9:5 NASB
whose are the fathers, and from whom is the Christ according to the flesh, who is over all, God blessed forever. Amen.

1 Timothy 3:16 NWT
16 Indeed, the sacred secret of this godly devotion is admittedly great: ‘He was made manifest in flesh, was declared righteous in spirit, appeared to angels, was preached about among nations, was believed upon in [the] world, was received up in glory.’

Hebrews 2:14 NIV
Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity so that by his death he might break the power of him who holds the power of death—that is, the devil—

Hebrews 10:5 NIV
5 Therefore, when Christ came into the world, he said:

 “Sacrifice and offering you did not desire,
 but a body you prepared for me;

What's with all this talk about “flesh” and “humanity” and “coming INTO the world?  What is that all about, Adam?

1 Corinthians 8:6 NIV
6yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

1 Corinthians 15:47 NIV
47The first man was of the dust of the earth, the second man from heaven.

Colossians 1:15-17
15 The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. 16 For through him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him.

Hebrews 1:1-2 NIV
1In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe.

Do any of those help you to shed light on Phil 2, Adam?  Will you claim that Paul did not refer to pre-existence in ANY OF THEM?  

Quote (gollamudi @ Feb. 07 2011,20:10)

Christianity made mess of these troubling words of NT writers and invented a New religion of Polytheism than True Monotheism of Hebrew Bible.

Maybe you need to recheck your “Hebrew Bible”, Adam.  In it, YHVH said there were no “elohim” except Him.  Yet your own “Hebrew Bible” bears out many other “elohim”, some of them even vice-regents of THE Elohim, YHVH.  Such as Deborah, Moses, and Jesus.

The point was that just because there ARE others called by the title of “god” does not mean WE have more than one God.  Nor does it mean that any of those other elohim created the heavens, the earth, and everything in them.  And that's what Paul was saying.  But he never said “so-called gods”, like most English translations render it.  He just simply said that though there are many WHO ARE CALLED gods, for us, there is but ONE, the Father.

Why do you think Jesus called YHVH the “only true God”?  Because he knew there were others with the title “elohim” or “theos”.

peace and love,
mike

[GeneBalthrop]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 08 2011,12:53)

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Feb. 07 2011,16:15) for instance if i were a general of a large army , could i empty myself of the and take on the role of a common solider, Yes Gene, But that only proves MY point.  WHEN was Jesus “the General” before he emptied himself to become a common foot soldier? WHEN, Gene? And I'm STILL waiting for an answer to how someone who was already a human being could be made in the likeness of a human being. peace and love, mike

Mike………When he was ON earth and became a Son of GOD at the Jordan river by receiving the Spirit of GOD with all seven of the Spirit of God with POWER. If you can find any scripture that say he had this POWER before then POST it. And please don't us the same old Glory thing. as some king of proof. Jesus plainly said he could do NOTHING of HIMSELF, even when he was on the earth so where did he some how change his “Nature” and was morphed into a human being not even one scripture in the whole bible say Jesus ever was Morphed from a former (EXISTENCE) into a human being. That is just MYSTERY RELIGION You have come to believe MIKE>IMO

peace and love…………………………gene

[Ed J]

Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 07 2011,06:53)

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Feb. 07 2011,03:04) Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 06 2011,18:06) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Feb. 06 2011,01:12) Mike………. “FOR HE (JESUS) thought not to rob GOD by trying to make himself equal with Him”. This I also believe is the right rendering of those words. IMO peace and love………………………………….gene Hi Gene, Phil.2:4-6 Let this (HolySpirit) mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: EDJ………….I know it say it that way, but like is said years ago i did a through search on it and what some Scholars said it should have been rendered  HE SOUGHT NOT TO ROB GOD BY MAKING HIMSELF EQUAL WITH GOD. It also know we are not to view the Godhead as gold and silver and such as precious things. Because we are made in the image of GOD already , But what i was saying had to do with a search i did years ago on that verse, that is all and i tend to believe it should be more accurately rendered that way, thats all. peace and love……………………………….gene Hi Gene, What do you think of this rendering of Philippians 2:5-7, compared to the AKJV Bible? (Adjusted Google) This (HolySpirit) mind that is among you and in Christ Jesus: exists in form of God and does not think it's robbery to be equal with God: but himself no reputation took form of a servant in similitude of men, being found and “will be”(63), in likeness as a man: (Lev.26:12) God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Bump for Gene,

Could you please answer my question?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[GeneBalthrop]

EDJ………….Not sure of your point here, But i will say GOD is Spirit and can be in us ALL, Just as he was (IN) Jesus. And that mind if one of Love and does not exalt it self as Jesus plainly showed us. It creates in us a new nature the nature of GOD himslef and Jesus never emptied himself of that nature ever or ever will IMO> Paul was telling us we need to be Humble like Jesus was when he existed on the earth, and Let God the Father do the raising us Up to what ever level he has for us. Not sure if i answered you question EDJ.

peace and love………………………………….gene

[gollamudi]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 08 2011,13:20)

Quote (gollamudi @ Feb. 07 2011,20:10) The problem with Phil 2 is Paul was nowhere near this so called preexistence' divinity of Jesus. Hi Adam, What if we add in a couple other things Paul said about it? Romans 1:3 NIV regarding his Son, who as to his human nature was a descendant of David, Romans 8:3 NIV For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the sinful nature, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful man to be a sin offering. Romans 9:5 NASB whose are the fathers, and from whom is the Christ according to the flesh, who is over all, God blessed forever. Amen. 1 Timothy 3:16 NWT 16 Indeed, the sacred secret of this godly devotion is admittedly great: ‘He was made manifest in flesh, was declared righteous in spirit, appeared to angels, was preached about among nations, was believed upon in [the] world, was received up in glory.’ Hebrews 2:14 NIV Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity so that by his death he might break the power of him who holds the power of death—that is, the devil— Hebrews 10:5 NIV 5 Therefore, when Christ came into the world, he said:  “Sacrifice and offering you did not desire,  but a body you prepared for me; What's with all this talk about “flesh” and “humanity” and “coming INTO the world?  What is that all about, Adam? 1 Corinthians 8:6 NIV 6yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live. 1 Corinthians 15:47 NIV 47The first man was of the dust of the earth, the second man from heaven. Colossians 1:15-17 15 The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. 16 For through him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. Hebrews 1:1-2 NIV 1In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe. Do any of those help you to shed light on Phil 2, Adam?  Will you claim that Paul did not refer to pre-existence in ANY OF THEM?   Quote (gollamudi @ Feb. 07 2011,20:10) Christianity made mess of these troubling words of NT writers and invented a New religion of Polytheism than True Monotheism of Hebrew Bible. Maybe you need to recheck your “Hebrew Bible”, Adam.  In it, YHVH said there were no “elohim” except Him.  Yet your own “Hebrew Bible” bears out many other “elohim”, some of them even vice-regents of THE Elohim, YHVH.  Such as Deborah, Moses, and Jesus. The point was that just because there ARE others called by the title of “god” does not mean WE have more than one God.  Nor does it mean that any of those other elohim created the heavens, the earth, and everything in them.  And that's what Paul was saying.  But he never said “so-called gods”, like most English translations render it.  He just simply said that though there are many WHO ARE CALLED gods, for us, there is but ONE, the Father. Why do you think Jesus called YHVH the “only true God”?  Because he knew there were others with the title “elohim” or “theos”. peace and love, mike

Hi brother Mike,
Thanks for your response on my post to brother Gene. The series of verses you quoted to support Jesus' preexistence are purely the interpretations of NT writers out of their Christological terminology but they are not supported by any of the scriptures in Hebrew Bible. Jesus was no where mentioned in the context of creation of God in the Hebrew Bible. It is purely the invention of Christian writers to fit Jesus in the lone creation of God. You claim Paul was supporting the view of so many gods 'who are called to be' and even you quoted the reference of O.T. The concept of God is entirely different in the Hebrew Bible when compared to NT especially when the NT writers incorporated Jesus into God's creation. NT calls even Satan as god of this world which is some thing strange when compared to Hebrew Bible.

I consider words like “he came down form heaven”, “he was sent in the likeness of our sinful flesh” “he took the form of human” etc are more do to with Docetism and Gnosticism than with true Monotheism of Hebrew Bible.

Please think over
Peace to you
Adam

[kerwin]

Adam,

Where is it written that “”he was found in the likeness of our sinful flesh””?

[gollamudi]

Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 08 2011,16:12)

Adam, Where is it written that “”he was found in the likeness of our sinful flesh””?

I am sorry it can be read as “he was sent in the likeness of our sinful flesh” you can find it in Rom 8:3.

Thanks and peace to you

[Baker]

Quote (theodorej @ Feb. 08 2011,12:00)

Quote (Baker @ Feb. 08 2011,01:15) Quote (theodorej @ Feb. 07 2011,23:52) Quote (Baker @ Feb. 02 2011,05:27) Theo!  And that Word of God became flesh, and will come back to strike the nation…..is that Jehovah God too?   Not all when it says Word is Jehovah God 's Word, why is it that you and others can't see the compassion.  that is what we are debating here on this tread.  However to say that the Holy Spirit is the Word of God , is far out…..that makes it sound like a person, because that Word became flesh….. The Holy Spirit became flesh?? Peace Irene Greetings Irene…..Your point is well taken and in principle you are correct….The spirit of the Eternal is all the majesty,wonder and POWER that is God…His Word was the means by which he created all that is….This means that he did not have to physically create anything….He just merely spoke the Word and it was and it was good.So I view the Eternal Father as the one God who created all that is through his Word and his power eminates from his spiritual state…As limited as my knowledge of God is…to me this makes sense…. Hi Theo!  What you are forgetting however, that we have another scripture that tells us, that the Word of God, is not only the spoken Word of Almighty God.  I don't remember if I already said all of this before, but if not here it is again…..And remember it is scripture……. Rev 19:13   And he [was] clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.   Rev 19:14   And the armies [which were] in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.   Rev 19:15   And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.   Rev 19:16   And he hath on [his] vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.   IMO we should all know who this is….?  It is Jesus Christ, and by Jesus Almighty God created all.   Jhn 1:1 ¶ In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.   Jhn 1:2   The same was in the beginning with God.   Jhn 1:3   All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.   Col 1:15   Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:   Col 1:16   For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether [they be] thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him In Genesis it says “Let us create man in our image.” I believe it is Almighty God with Yeshua( Jesus, The Word of God )… I also believe that God and The Word of God are titles…. Peace Irene Amen Irene!!!…. As John so plainly said… that the Christ Jesus  was indeed the word and the word was with God and lived among us….In addition we see in Revelation he will be returning as not only a king but a conquerer…

Theo! I am really happy that you agree with us…..Ame, Amen

Peace and Love Irene

[942767]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 07 2011,08:06)

Quote (942767 @ Feb. 07 2011,06:38) Hi Mike: What the scripture actually states: 6Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7But made himself of no reputation Okay Marty.  But still that doesn't answer my point.  You can not “empty yourself” if you were never “full”, right? You can not “make yourself of no reputation” if you didn't already have a reputation to start with. Word it however you like, but the fact remains that one can not “lower himself” unless he was higher in the first place. So what I'm asking is:  WHEN did Jesus have the “grand reputation” before he “made himself of no reputation”? mike

Hi Mike:

He was on earth as The Christ the Son of the Living God. Is that not a higher status than any ordinary man?

Here is an example:

Quote

Matthew 9:2And, behold, they brought to him a man sick of the palsy, lying on a bed: and Jesus seeing their faith said unto the sick of the palsy;Son, be of good cheer; thy sins be forgiven thee. 3And, behold, certain of the scribes said within themselves, This man blasphemeth. 4And Jesus knowing their thoughts said, Wherefore think ye evil in your hearts? 5For whether is easier, to say, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Arise, and walk? 6But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (then saith he to the sick of the palsy,) Arise, take up thy bed, and go unto thine house. 7And he arose, and departed to his house. 8But when the multitudes saw it, they marvelled, and glorified God, which had given such power unto men.

And so, was he not in the form of God in his position as God's Only Begotten Son and His Christ?

Love in Christ,
Marty

[942767]

Hi Mike and Irene:

You say Jesus “emptied himself” prior to becoming a man. What does that mean? Emptied himself in what way or of what?

Love in Christ,
Marty

[Baker]

Quote (942767 @ Feb. 09 2011,03:06)

Hi Mike and Irene: You say Jesus “emptied himself” prior to becoming a man.  What does that mean?  Emptied himself in what way or of what? Love in Christ, Marty

Marty!  In my Bible it says

Phl 2:5 ¶ Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:  

Phl 2:6   Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:  

Phl 2:7   But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:  

Jesus was in the form of God.  What form is God?  He is Spirit…
So if you want to believe Scripture then you have to believe that Jesus was in the form of God, Spirit…
Then the next verse says, that He took upon Him the form of a Servant, AND WAS MADE IN THE LIKENESS OF MEN….

Can you see how that then fits with all other Scriptures that says that Jesus preexisted His birth on earth….
The NIV of the Bible says that Jesus had the nature of God, and then was made into the nature of men……

I also want to ask you, what is Jesus now?
Peace and Love Irene

[Author]

Posts