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- February 2, 2011 at 3:23 am#235076BakerParticipant
Ed! First of all you do give us good Scriptures, but does these Scripture convey the preexisting of Jesus? No, and that is this tread all about……
First of all I compared John 1;1 with Rev. 19 which shows Jesus who became flesh in verse 14 of John 1:1. Then in Re. 19 shows that Jesus will come back as The Word of God and King of Kings and Lord of Lords. All these are titles.Rev 19:13 And he [was] clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
Rev 19:14 And the armies [which were] in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
Rev 19:16 And he hath on [his] vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
This is not Gods Holy Spirit, but it is Jesus……just like John 1:1 is…..Jhn 1:1 ¶ In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Jhn 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
Jhn 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Jhn 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
Jhn 1:5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
Jhn 1:6 ¶ There was a man sent from God, whose name [was] John.
Jhn 1:7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all [men] through him might believe.
Jhn 1:8 He was not that Light, but [was sent] to bear witness of that Light.
Jhn 1:9 [That] was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
Jhn 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
Jhn 1:11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
Jhn 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name:
Jhn 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
Jhn 1:14 ¶ And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
The last verse shows us that He The Word of God is the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth…..The Holy Spirit is part of God not begotten of God…..How in the world can you make Gods Holy Spirit out of that???
Then we have also
Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether [they be] thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all [things] he might have the preeminence.
Col 1:19 ¶ For it pleased [the Father] that in him should all fulness dwell;
Jesus is not only the firstborn of all creation, but also firstborn of the dead, so HE MAY HAVE PREEMINENCE, MEANING HE WAS FIRST IN ALL.
Notice verse 16 it also shows that God created all through Jesus, just like it says in John 1:3.
AND WE HAVE
Rev 3:14 ¶ And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;Should I go on? There are more Scriptures that shows us that Jesus (Yeshua) existed before the world was….The firstborn of all creation….
And God used Jesus to create all…. by Him and for him….Peace Irene
February 2, 2011 at 9:14 pm#235124942767ParticipantQuote (Baker @ Feb. 01 2011,12:01) Quote (942767 @ Feb. 01 2011,08:06) Quote (Baker @ Feb. 01 2011,07:18) Quote (942767 @ Feb. 01 2011,06:54) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 31 2011,04:38) Quote (942767 @ Jan. 31 2011,04:34) The glory is that which he received of God His Father when He brought him forth into this world as His Only Begotten Son and anointed him as His Christ, and savior of all mankind, and as his heir, and that he exalted him to His right hand as head of the church as Lord and Christ, and to be the judge of the Living and the dead. God had forseen all of this before he created the world, and that is what is meant.
Hi Marty,Sure, GOD had forseen all this. But how was Jesus aware of any “glory” he had before he even existed?
You say the glory is that which he received when he was brought into this world. But Jesus speaks of a glory he had before the world even existed.
mike
Hi Mike:Let's take a look at the scriptures:
Jesus said:
Quote Jhn 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do. Jhn 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was
At the Age of 12, we see Jesus in the Synagogue discussing the scriptures with the scribes, and saying that he must be about His Father's business, and to the Pharisees he said, “Abraham desired to see my day, and he saw it and was glad”, and he said, “before Abraham was, I am”, and so, God showed him what his ministry would be after he was born into the world.
Note the scripture states: “I have glorified thee on earth, I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.”
And then he says,“and now, Father, glorify thou me with thine own self” (present tense) I believe here is speaking of his exaltation to the right hand of the Father as head of the church.
God had forseen that His plan for humanity would be fulfilled through his Son.
And so, to your question, Jesus knew because God showed him this after he was born into this world.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Marty! Are you not leaving some of that Scripture out?
Jesus wanted His glory back which He had with His Father before the world was, that is what you leave out.And also this
Jhn 8:57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
Jhn 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
How in the world can you see something else in this Scripture?
He was there before Abraham was…..not in any mind or whatever, man that is what I call interpreting Scripture according to man… not God….
Peace Irene
No, Irene, Jesus did not say anything about wanting some of the glory back that he had with the Father before the world was. You are adding that word “back”. That is not what he said.Jesus said: “Abraham desired to see my day and he saw it and was glad”. God had shown Abraham that through his seed all nations of the earth would be blessed, and when he tested Abraham with sacrificing Isaac on Mount Moriah, God provided a ram for the sacrifice. This was symbolic of God providing Jesus as the sacrifice through whom all nations of the earth would be blessed.
Abraham died in faith believing God's promises.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Marty!Jhn 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was….
AND NOW O FATHER GLORIFY THOU ME WITH THINE OWN SELF WITH THE GLORY WHICH I I I I (JESUS) HAD WITH THEE BEFORE THE WORLD WAS.
This is a Scripture I did not add this……And Jesus also said this in
Jhn 8:57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
Jhn 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
What you are saying is right, however you don't want to believe that what Jesus said, it is not my saying it is Jesus saying…….Jesus said:” VERILY, VERILY, I SAY UNTO YOU, BEFORE ABRAHAM WAS, I AM……
This is not my saying, again, not my saying, I did not add anything….you are denying it…..Irene
BTW all Scriptures taken from the Blue letter Bible from the Internet. Copied and pasted…..
Hi Irene:There is no use trying to convince you of something other than what you already seem to believe.
I do not believe that Jesus pre-existed as a sentient person prior to his birth into this world.
I have given you my understanding and that is the end of this discussion for me.
The only thing left for me to do is to pray and ask God to show us what is the truth regarding this matter.
Love in Christ,
MartyFebruary 2, 2011 at 9:38 pm#235128BakerParticipantMarty! Good, praying to God for the truth is very good. Let me tell you something, I did not always believed that Jesus preexisted at one time either. But Georg and I started to look at those Scriptures which I gave you and others. There is no either being that fits Rev. 19:13-16, which then shows us that John1:1-14 is the same being, Jesus….We had to admit that we were wrong, so why is it that it is so hard for you to see?.
Please do yourself a favor and go to the preexisting debate tread that Mike started. There are some good Scriptures…..the one Scripture in Phil.2;5 would make no sense if Jesus did not existed before the world was. He emptied Himself.Phl 2:5 ¶ Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
Phl 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
Phl 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
Jesus was made in the likeness of men…..He was in the form of God…What form is God? I think you know that….Peace Irene
February 3, 2011 at 4:42 pm#235220GeneBalthropParticipantMarty……..You have it right Jesus did (NOT) PREEXIST His berth on earth as a sentential being of any kind, he existed only in the Plan and Will of GOD, which he has for all mankind and Jesus was the (FIRST) to reach that Goal (FROM HUMANITY). You have it right brother don't let these deluded Preexistences deceive you, GOD has given you the Truth Hang on to it. Remember it say the whole world lies in deception and that is the truth, Nearly all Christendom believe in the Preexistence of Jesus before his berth on earth rather a person is a Trinitarian a Protestant , they all come from their fathers the Gnostic's and they teach their same LIE and form of religions also. IMO
peace and love…………………………………gene
February 3, 2011 at 5:22 pm#235223BakerParticipantQuote (Gene Balthrop @ Feb. 04 2011,02:42) Marty……..You have it right Jesus did (NOT) PREEXIST His berth on earth as a sentential being of any kind, he existed only in the Plan and Will of GOD, which he has for all mankind and Jesus was the (FIRST) to reach that Goal (FROM HUMANITY). You have it right brother don't let these deluded Preexistences deceive you, GOD has given you the Truth Hang on to it. Remember it say the whole world lies in deception and that is the truth, Nearly all Christendom believe in the Preexistence of Jesus before his berth on earth rather a person is a Trinitarian a Protestant , they all come from their fathers the Gnostic's and they teach their same LIE and form of religions also. IMO peace and love…………………………………gene
The whole world is deluded, with one exception, gene, right?I know, you not only have the tree of knowledge in your back yard, your swinging from it.
Georg
February 3, 2011 at 5:39 pm#235227942767ParticipantQuote (Gene Balthrop @ Feb. 04 2011,02:42) Marty……..You have it right Jesus did (NOT) PREEXIST His berth on earth as a sentential being of any kind, he existed only in the Plan and Will of GOD, which he has for all mankind and Jesus was the (FIRST) to reach that Goal (FROM HUMANITY). You have it right brother don't let these deluded Preexistences deceive you, GOD has given you the Truth Hang on to it. Remember it say the whole world lies in deception and that is the truth, Nearly all Christendom believe in the Preexistence of Jesus before his berth on earth rather a person is a Trinitarian a Protestant , they all come from their fathers the Gnostic's and they teach their same LIE and form of religions also. IMO peace and love…………………………………gene
Hi Gene:We know this, but when we have done every thing that we can to show the truth, the only thing left to do is pray.
Love in Christ,
MartyFebruary 3, 2011 at 6:30 pm#235235Ed JParticipantQuote (Baker @ Feb. 03 2011,07:38) Marty! Good, praying to God for the truth is very good. Let me tell you something, I did not always believed that Jesus preexisted at one time either. Peace Irene
Hi Irene,Then by Proof of your words you “could” be wrong about other things as well; right?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgFebruary 3, 2011 at 6:44 pm#235236terrariccaParticipantQuote (Ed J @ Feb. 04 2011,11:30) Quote (Baker @ Feb. 03 2011,07:38) Marty! Good, praying to God for the truth is very good. Let me tell you something, I did not always believed that Jesus preexisted at one time either. Peace Irene
Hi Irene,Then by Proof of your words you “could” be wrong about other things as well; right?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
edjhow come it is always others that have to prove to you,you are declaring that you are horse ridding,so you not really believe and yet you believe some,
so you either hot or cold,that bad,scriptures says.
it is better to be like Gene totally blind than half blind mean spiritually.
Pierre
February 4, 2011 at 4:34 am#235292BakerParticipantQuote (Ed J @ Feb. 04 2011,04:30) Quote (Baker @ Feb. 03 2011,07:38) Marty! Good, praying to God for the truth is very good. Let me tell you something, I did not always believed that Jesus preexisted at one time either. Peace Irene
Hi Irene,Then by Proof of your words you “could” be wrong about other things as well; right?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Ed! Don't jump too conclusion……That was a long time ago. When you make a remark like that, you need to be show me what you mean……Are you perfect??? Do you know it all? I guess you think you do, Mr, Perfect……
IreneFebruary 4, 2011 at 7:14 am#235304Ed JParticipantQuote (Baker @ Feb. 04 2011,14:34) Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 04 2011,04:30) Quote (Baker @ Feb. 03 2011,07:38) Marty! Good, praying to God for the truth is very good. Let me tell you something, I did not always believed that Jesus preexisted at one time either. Peace Irene
Hi Irene,Then by Proof of your words you “could” be wrong about other things as well; right?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Ed! Don't jump too conclusion……That was a long time ago. When you make a remark like that, you need to be show me what you mean……(1)Are you perfect??? (2)Do you know it all? (3)I guess you think you do, Mr, Perfect……
Irene
Hi Irene,1) Yea, yea;
2) Nay, nay:
3) But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay:
for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil. (Matt.5:37)God bless
Ed J (Heb.11:40 / Eph:4:13)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org (Eccl.9:12-16)February 4, 2011 at 4:34 pm#235338GeneBalthropParticipantEDJ………..Pay it no attention that is what all Preexistences do when they run out of any logical explanation for their lack of understanding, I have noticed Here for over five years that is the same response from those who are ignorant to what the truth is they love to poke fun and ridicule those who disagree with then , because they run out of any thing to say to truly explain their false teachings and it also shows their true lack of intelligence also. IMO
peace and love to you and yours…………………………………….gene
February 4, 2011 at 4:37 pm#235339GeneBalthropParticipantQuote (Baker @ Feb. 04 2011,03:22) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Feb. 04 2011,02:42) Marty……..You have it right Jesus did (NOT) PREEXIST His berth on earth as a sentential being of any kind, he existed only in the Plan and Will of GOD, which he has for all mankind and Jesus was the (FIRST) to reach that Goal (FROM HUMANITY). You have it right brother don't let these deluded Preexistences deceive you, GOD has given you the Truth Hang on to it. Remember it say the whole world lies in deception and that is the truth, Nearly all Christendom believe in the Preexistence of Jesus before his berth on earth rather a person is a Trinitarian a Protestant , they all come from their fathers the Gnostic's and they teach their same LIE and form of religions also. IMO peace and love…………………………………gene
The whole world is deluded, with one exception, gene, right?I know, you not only have the tree of knowledge in your back yard, your swinging from it.
Georg
Georg…………Have you not read “THE WHOLE WORLD LIES IN DECEPTION” Now you seem to agree with the whole world on Jesus' Preexistence right? so i would worry about that a little more if i were you. IMOpeace and love to you and Irene………………………………gene
February 4, 2011 at 6:09 pm#235343942767ParticipantQuote (Baker @ Feb. 03 2011,07:38) Marty! Good, praying to God for the truth is very good. Let me tell you something, I did not always believed that Jesus preexisted at one time either. But Georg and I started to look at those Scriptures which I gave you and others. There is no either being that fits Rev. 19:13-16, which then shows us that John1:1-14 is the same being, Jesus….We had to admit that we were wrong, so why is it that it is so hard for you to see?.
Please do yourself a favor and go to the preexisting debate tread that Mike started. There are some good Scriptures…..the one Scripture in Phil.2;5 would make no sense if Jesus did not existed before the world was. He emptied Himself.Phl 2:5 ¶ Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
Phl 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
Phl 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
Jesus was made in the likeness of men…..He was in the form of God…What form is God? I think you know that….Peace Irene
Hi Irene:Here is the scripture in Philippians to which you refer. Let us look at what is being said:
Quote Phil 2:3Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves. 4Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others.
5Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
The Apostle Paul was teaching the church of Corinth about humility and using the life of Jesus as an example.
He said: 5Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus When was he Christ Jesus, Irene? In some former state, or when he was on earth?
He was in the form of God as God's Son and His Christ, but he did not let this go to his head, so to speak, but he humbled himself and became an ordinary man and humbled himself and became obedient even unto death on the cross.
You know in his ministry here on earth he had the power to forgive sins, for example, and so, this is what is being said about him being in the form of God.
No, he did not pre-exist as a sentient person prior to his birth into this world. He was fore-ordained, and did exist in the heart of God because God knew that precisely the right time he would give birth to His Son in whom His plan for humanity would be fulfilled.
Love in Christ,
MartyFebruary 4, 2011 at 8:58 pm#235357BakerParticipantQuote (942767 @ Feb. 05 2011,04:09) Quote (Baker @ Feb. 03 2011,07:38) Marty! Good, praying to God for the truth is very good. Let me tell you something, I did not always believed that Jesus preexisted at one time either. But Georg and I started to look at those Scriptures which I gave you and others. There is no either being that fits Rev. 19:13-16, which then shows us that John1:1-14 is the same being, Jesus….We had to admit that we were wrong, so why is it that it is so hard for you to see?.
Please do yourself a favor and go to the preexisting debate tread that Mike started. There are some good Scriptures…..the one Scripture in Phil.2;5 would make no sense if Jesus did not existed before the world was. He emptied Himself.Phl 2:5 ¶ Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
Phl 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
Phl 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
Jesus was made in the likeness of men…..He was in the form of God…What form is God? I think you know that….Peace Irene
Hi Irene:Here is the scripture in Philippians to which you refer. Let us look at what is being said:
Quote Phil 2:3Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves. 4Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others.
5Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
The Apostle Paul was teaching the church of Corinth about humility and using the life of Jesus as an example.
He said: 5Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus When was he Christ Jesus, Irene? In some former state, or when he was on earth?
He was in the form of God as God's Son and His Christ, but he did not let this go to his head, so to speak, but he humbled himself and became an ordinary man and humbled himself and became obedient even unto death on the cross.
You know in his ministry here on earth he had the power to forgive sins, for example, and so, this is what is being said about him being in the form of God.
No, he did not pre-exist as a sentient person prior to his birth into this world. He was fore-ordained, and did exist in the heart of God because God knew that precisely the right time he would give birth to His Son in whom His plan for humanity would be fulfilled.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Marty! If Jesus already was a man, why does Scripture say that He was made in the likeness of men?Phl 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, AND WAS MADE IN THE LIKENESS OF MEN.
Peace Irene
February 5, 2011 at 3:26 am#235389mikeboll64BlockedQuote (Baker @ Feb. 05 2011,06:58) Marty! If Jesus already was a man, why does Scripture say that He was made in the likeness of men? Phl 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, AND WAS MADE IN THE LIKENESS OF MEN.
Peace Irene
Hi Irene,You took the words right out of my mouth. Also, when was he acting all “full of himself because he was God's Son” to the point that he had to “empty himself” of that?
If he never “lorded it over others” that he was the Son of God, then what exactly did he “empty himself” of?
peace and love,
mikeFebruary 5, 2011 at 3:12 pm#235429GeneBalthropParticipantMike……….Jesus never emptied himself of being GOD'S Son, in order for that to happen he would have to empty himself of the Spirit of GOD. That never happened from the time he recieved it at the Jordan until his death on the cross. He was in the nature of GOD by virtue of that Spirit given him. This same nature can be in us also, and we need to be just like Jesus was and not think that because we (exist) in the nature of GOD (via the holy spirit (IN) Us) that we are better them anyone else is. That was all of Paul's point was , but you preexistence use it to (SEPARATE )Jesus and (those who have the Spirit of God in them) from Jesus' identity. Marty has presented it right, rather you understand it or not doesn't change the truth. IMO
Mike here is something you need to also think about, where it say He thought it not robber to be made equal with GOD, years ago i did a search of the original Greek on that and other Scholars opinion on it and found out that it should read this way. “FOR HE (JESUS) thought not to rob GOD by trying to make himself equal with Him”. This I also believe is the right rendering of those words.
Remember when Jesus said all that ever came before him were lairs and thieves. Thy were lairs by say when miracles were preformed by God that they did them and in that they also were thieves because they were stealing Glory that belongs to GOD alone and applying it to themselves , as Moses did at the waters Meribia . Many people think Jesus was the creator and the one doing those Miracles , but Jesus always gave the Glory to God the Father the true source of those Miracles . Think about it Mike if you were to walk into a Hospital and God were to Heal everyone you ask him to, Before you could leave that hospital they would be National News cameras all around you, and By simply allowing simply not say that you did not do it and allow them to think you were the (SOURCE) of those Miracles would bring GLORY to YOU even though you were not the one who did it.
But what did Jesus say, “THE SON OF MAN CAN DO (NOTHING) OF HIMSELF”, and again saying to GOD the FATHER, “I HAVE GLORIFIED (YOU) UPON THE EARTH”. but you preexistence rob GOD and steal his Glory and give it to Jesus as if Jesus were your GOD. But this was not and is not the attitude of Jesus, he knows full well who get (ALL THE GLORY), he is not a thief nor a man who wants to be EQUAL WITH GOD, now or ever will. IMO
peace and love………………………………….gene
February 5, 2011 at 9:45 pm#235458942767ParticipantQuote (Baker @ Feb. 05 2011,06:58) Quote (942767 @ Feb. 05 2011,04:09) Quote (Baker @ Feb. 03 2011,07:38) Marty! Good, praying to God for the truth is very good. Let me tell you something, I did not always believed that Jesus preexisted at one time either. But Georg and I started to look at those Scriptures which I gave you and others. There is no either being that fits Rev. 19:13-16, which then shows us that John1:1-14 is the same being, Jesus….We had to admit that we were wrong, so why is it that it is so hard for you to see?.
Please do yourself a favor and go to the preexisting debate tread that Mike started. There are some good Scriptures…..the one Scripture in Phil.2;5 would make no sense if Jesus did not existed before the world was. He emptied Himself.Phl 2:5 ¶ Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
Phl 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
Phl 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
Jesus was made in the likeness of men…..He was in the form of God…What form is God? I think you know that….Peace Irene
Hi Irene:Here is the scripture in Philippians to which you refer. Let us look at what is being said:
Quote Phil 2:3Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves. 4Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others.
5Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
The Apostle Paul was teaching the church of Corinth about humility and using the life of Jesus as an example.
He said: 5Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus When was he Christ Jesus, Irene? In some former state, or when he was on earth?
He was in the form of God as God's Son and His Christ, but he did not let this go to his head, so to speak, but he humbled himself and became an ordinary man and humbled himself and became obedient even unto death on the cross.
You know in his ministry here on earth he had the power to forgive sins, for example, and so, this is what is being said about him being in the form of God.
No, he did not pre-exist as a sentient person prior to his birth into this world. He was fore-ordained, and did exist in the heart of God because God knew that precisely the right time he would give birth to His Son in whom His plan for humanity would be fulfilled.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Marty! If Jesus already was a man, why does Scripture say that He was made in the likeness of men?Phl 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, AND WAS MADE IN THE LIKENESS OF MEN.
Peace Irene
Hi Irene:Because He was “The Christ The Son of the Living God”. No, not an ordinary man in this position of authority. No one else can ever claim to be “The Son of the Living God”, he is unique in this.
But he did not let these facts go to his head, but emptied himself or he humbled himself and let himself become just like any ordinary man that was born of the sperm of man.
Love in Christ,
MartyFebruary 5, 2011 at 9:56 pm#235460mikeboll64BlockedQuote (942767 @ Feb. 06 2011,07:45) But he did not let these facts go to his head, but emptied himself
And again Marty,If Jesus never HAD this conceited “I'm better than you” attitude in the first place, then he couldn't have “emptied himself” of it.
Get it? In order to “empty himself” OF something, he had to have had that something to start with.
mike
February 5, 2011 at 10:03 pm#235462mikeboll64BlockedHi Gene,
Nothing you posted answers my point that I just restated to Marty. Nor does it answer Irene's point about first “emptying himself” and THEN “being made as a human being”.
You post scriptural truths that none of us have ever disagreed with, but you post them in such a way that it seems as if you're proving something to us that we argued against before.
Please don't do that. ONLY address what we DO claim. None of us have claimed that Jesus “emptied himself of being God's Son”.
mike
February 6, 2011 at 6:33 am#235488terrariccaParticipantQuote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 06 2011,14:56) Quote (942767 @ Feb. 06 2011,07:45) But he did not let these facts go to his head, but emptied himself
And again Marty,If Jesus never HAD this conceited “I'm better than you” attitude in the first place, then he couldn't have “emptied himself” of it.
Get it? In order to “empty himself” OF something, he had to have had that something to start with.
mike
Mikewas not the position he had that he ad to empty so that he became a little lower than the angels ?
emptying yourself would mean to transform yourself lower than actually you are ,no??
this would also mean humbling yourself ,no??
there are three things that Christ did;1) humble himself;2)complete all of the purpose of the will of his father,3)and stay faithful until his dead.
HIS THIS NOT THE OUTLINE FOR A TRUE CHRISTIAN ?
Pierre
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