Preexistence

[GeneBalthrop]

Mike………So now its is “SPOKESMAN” AND “DUBBED” the WORD of GOD. So who has said different , Jesus was Indeed the one who Spoke GOD'S “WORDS” to Us (in fact) GOD was (TRULY) (IN) Him speaking (HIS WORDS) through his mouth. It was GOD Speaking Not Jesus through Jesus Mouth. So Jesus said accurately the “WORDS” he Spoke were (NOT) His WORDS, so then Jesus speaking GODS WORDS does (NOT) Make Him the WORDS He was SPEAKING or DUBBING right. That is the Point here i am trying to make. It seems you finally agree. IMO

peace and love………………………….gene

[mikeboll64]

Okay Gene,

Let's run with this for a minute.  I think the BEING of Jesus had the title “Word of God” because he was God's main spokesman.  I believe that the BEING of Jesus BECAME flesh and dwelled among us.

You believe that the words of God came to be IN the flesh and blood human being Jesus.  But weren't there many others who spoke the words of God?  Were they also called “the Word of God” like Jesus is in Revelation?

I guess what I'm saying is if the ONE BEING who has the title of “Word of God”, because he is the MAIN spokesman of God, became flesh and dwelled among us, then John 1:14 makes perfect sense.

But if if was only the words of God COMING TO BE IN someone who was flesh, then what's the big deal?  That happened many times before Jesus, and many times after him.

And the BOTTOM LINE is that the scripture does NOT say the words of God CAME TO BE IN someone who was flesh, do they?  Nope.  They say the Word (as in SINGULAR) BECAME flesh.  There is a big difference between the way YOU see it and the way I see it.  And the difference is that the way I see it is actually supported by the scripture.  The way YOU see it involves you ADDING WORDS to the scripture to make it work.  Which way is better?

mike

[mikeboll64]

And Gene,

If you really agree that Jesus is called by the title “Word of God” because he is God's spokesman, then why can't you see that this “Word of God” existed in the form of God, but then emptied himself and BECAME flesh?

Do you see how nicely John 1:14 and Phil 2 tie in together?

mike

[Ed J]

Quote (theodorej @ Jan. 30 2011,23:36)

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Jan. 29 2011,01:36) TheodoreJ………..Indeed God and His words are on and the same, and Jesus certainely Had God the Father (IN) Him as he said he did. But none of that makes Jesus the creator of anything, He is unique in this sense he was the (first) from man kind to be raised unto eternal life and has the glory and honor of the first born of man brothers and sisters, He has all seven of the Sprits of GOD on him , he has been grately blessed by God that is for sure, But to move his likeness away from our in most surely Antichrist teachings, and comes from false Christian greek mythology of man gods and women having childern with their pagan gods,. God was not dealing Morphed beings or other Gods or demigods, he was dealing with MAN KIND . Jesus said 87 times He was a SON OF MAN, He certainely did not seperate Himself from us at any time in his life. This whole concept of Jesus being something different in its very nature has a seperating effect it makes him different then we are and that brakes down our sense of relating with him in human terms and the is truly against Christ. Think about it. theordorej………….Type in DENCK and read what he wrote, i believe it will help brother. peace and love……………………………………gene Greetings Gene…..Before I read Denck….The personage that is Jesus did not exist physically at the time of creation,however,the Word of The Eternal did and that was the means by which all things were created….That same word became flesh and lived among us….That same word was God,That same word was with God….Gods ways and understanding is higher than ours….To underestimate the ability of the Eternal is folly on our behalf…and to try and equate it to our reasoning and understanding is to miss the purpose of his word which is for education and correction…

Hi Theodore J,

And “The Word” also inspired men to write the bible.

2Peter 1:21 For the prophecy(The Bible) came not in old time by the will of man:
but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the HolySpirit.

So now you know who “The Word” really is!

Matthew 10:20 For it is not ye that speak (The Word), but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Ed J]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 31 2011,03:33)

Okay Gene, Let's run with this for a minute.  I think the BEING of Jesus had the title “Word of God” because he was God's main spokesman.  I believe that the BEING of Jesus BECAME flesh and dwelled among us. You believe that the words of God came to be IN the flesh and blood human being Jesus.  But weren't there many others who spoke the words of God?  Were they also called “the Word of God” like Jesus is in Revelation? mike

Hi Mike,

They were called “Prophets”, just like Jesus called himself; as he hung out in Capernaum.

John 4:44 For Jesus himself testified, that a prophet hath no honor in his own country.
Matt.13:57 …A prophet is not without honor, save in his own country, and in his own house.
Luke 10:15 And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted to heaven, shalt be thrust down to hell.

Witnessing to a worldwide audience in behalf of YHVH!
יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā  hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (Isaiah 49:16 / Isaiah 60:14 / Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org (Ecl.9:12-16)

[mikeboll64]

Yes Ed,

They were called prophets, as was Jesus. Now who was the greatest prophet of all?

Remember the parable of the tenants? The owner sent many of his servants (prophets), but they killed them all. So the owner thought, “I will send my own son, surely they will respect him”. But the killed him also.

So who is the greatest one that God sent to prophecy to us? Who was his MAIN spokesman out of all of them? That MAIN spokesman is the ONLY with the title “Word of God”.

It is this one who BECAME flesh and dwelled among us. It is this one who John the Baptist was not worthy to untie the sandal of. Does an actual “word” of God wear sandals?

peace and love,
mike

[Ed J]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 31 2011,04:11)

Yes Ed, They were called prophets, as was Jesus.  Now who was the greatest prophet of all?   Remember the parable of the tenants?  The owner sent many of his servants (prophets), but they killed them all.  So the owner thought, “I will send my own son, surely they will respect him”.  But the killed him also. So who is the greatest one that God sent to prophecy to us?  Who was his MAIN spokesman out of all of them?  That MAIN spokesman is the ONLY with the title “Word of God”. It is this one who BECAME flesh and dwelled among us.  It is this one who John the Baptist was not worthy to untie the sandal of.  Does an actual “word” of God wear sandals?   peace and love, mike

Hi Mike,

This is taken from here

Deut.6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD: YHVH GOD is One!
“FATHER:The Word” known in us believers as the “HolySpirit“!

Luke 8:5…11 A sower went out to sow his seed: and as he sowed, some fell by the way side;
and it was trodden down, and the fowls of the air devoured it. And some fell upon a rock;
and as soon as it was sprung up, it withered away, because it lacked moisture.
And some fell among thorns; and the thorns sprang up with it, and choked it.
And other fell on good ground, and sprang up, and bare fruit an hundredfold.
And when he had said these things, he cried, He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.
And his disciples asked him, saying, What might this parable be? And he said,
Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others
in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.
Now the parable is this: “The seed” is “the word“ of God.

Hebrews 7:28 For the law maketh men high priests which have infirmity; but
the word(TheSeed “IS” HolySpirit) of the oath, which was since the law,
maketh the Son(Jesus Christ), who is consecrated for evermore.

Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
John 6:15 When Jesus therefore perceived that they would come and take him by force,
to make him a king, he departed again into a mountain himself alone.

Psalm 29:10 The LORD sitteth upon the flood; yea, the LORD(HolySpirit) sitteth King for ever. (Rev.19:11-19)
Psalm 10:16 The LORD(HolySpirit) is King for ever and ever: the heathen are perished out of his land.

MaL.2:10 Have we not all one father(HolySpirit)? hath not one God(HolySpirit) created us?
why do we deal treacherously every man against his brother, by profaning the covenant of our fathers?

1Cor.8:6 But to us there is but “one” “God,the Father”(HolySpirit), of whom are all things,
and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him(HolySpirit).
Eph.4:6 One God(HolySpirit) and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

Above all: (AKJV Psalm 83:18)
Through all: (AKJV Gal.4:5-7)
In us all: (AKJV Eph.4:6)

Eph.2:12-15 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel,
and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us ;
Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances;
for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

Luke 20:9-18 Then began he to speak to the people this parable; A certain man planted a vineyard,
and let it forth to husbandmen, and went into a far country for a long time. And at the season he sent a servant
to the husbandmen, that they should give him of the fruit of the vineyard: but the husbandmen beat him,
and sent him away empty. And again he sent another servant: and they beat him also, and entreated him shamefully,
and sent him away empty. And again he sent a third: and they wounded him also, and cast him out.
Then said the lord of the vineyard, What shall I do? I will send my beloved son: it may be they will reverence him
when they see him. But when the husbandmen saw him, they reasoned among themselves, saying, This is the heir:
come, let us kill him, that the inheritance may be ours. So they cast him out of the vineyard, and killed him.
What therefore shall the lord of the vineyard do unto them? He shall come and destroy these husbandmen,
and shall give the vineyard to others. And when they heard it, they said, God forbid. And he beheld them, and said,
What is this then that is written, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner?
Whosoever shall fall upon that stone shall be broken; but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.

Rev.16:15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth,
and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.

1Cor.1:17-23 17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel:
not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness;
but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. For it is written,
I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.
Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish
the wisdom of this world? For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God,
it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe. For the Jews require a sign,
and the Greeks seek after wisdom: But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock,
and unto the Greeks foolishness;

God bless you ALL…
Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34)
“Witnessing” (AKJV Joshua 22:34) to the world in behalf of…
117=יהוה האלהים YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm! (Psalm 45:17)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[942767]

Quote (Baker @ Jan. 29 2011,02:08)

Quote (942767 @ Jan. 27 2011,05:34) Quote (Baker @ Jan. 25 2011,11:14) Quote (942767 @ Jan. 25 2011,03:54) Hi Irene: How about the following scripture: Quote Ephesians 3:9And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: This again indicates that God created all things.  Jesus is not the creator. Love in Christ, Marty  did you not notice what it says? “””God, who created all things “”by”” Jesus Christ:””” other scripture say, “”through”” him were all things created. God “gave” his son the power to create. How does a General in the army have his commands carried out? “”through”” his officers. How does a President of a company have his orders carried out? “”through”” his subordinates. The highest in command gives the order, the lower carries them out. I don't find that so hard to understand. Georg Yes, Georg: I noticed what the scripture states: “God created all things by Jesus Christ” which means: Quote 1 Peter 1:18Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; 19But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: 20Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you, Quote 1 Colossians 1:12Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: 13Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: 14In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: 15Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: 16For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: Notice the last part of verse 16 says all things were created for him, and that God indicates that God created all things and not Jesus, otherwise it would say “for himself”. Jesus existed in the heart of the Father prior to the creation of the heavens and the earth and all of its host. Love in Christ, Marty Marty Jesus “IS” the first born of “ALL” of God's creation, Col. 1:15; the “beginning” of God's creation, Rev. 3:14. He was “there” when the world was created, not only in the fathers heart. Let me ask you, what I ask gene. What was Jesus asking the Father when he ask him this? Jhn 17:4   I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.   Jhn 17:5   And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.   What was his glory “”before”” the world was? a thought in his Fathers mind? Is that what Jesus ask to become again? quite ridiculous if you ask me. See if “”YOU”” can give me a “straight” answer, gene never did. Georg

Hi Georg:

You ask:

Quote

What was his glory “”before”” the world was?

The glory is that which he received of God His Father when He brought him forth into this world as His Only Begotten Son and anointed him as His Christ, and savior of all mankind, and as his heir, and that he exalted him to His right hand as head of the church as Lord and Christ, and to be the judge of the Living and the dead.

God had forseen all of this before he created the world, and that is what is meant.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[mikeboll64]

Quote (942767 @ Jan. 31 2011,04:34)

The glory is that which he received of God His Father when He brought him forth into this world as His Only Begotten Son and anointed him as His Christ, and savior of all mankind, and as his heir, and that he exalted him to His right hand as head of the church as Lord and Christ, and to be the judge of the Living and the dead. God had forseen all of this before he created the world, and that is what is meant.

Hi Marty,

Sure, GOD had forseen all this. But how was Jesus aware of any “glory” he had before he even existed?

You say the glory is that which he received when he was brought into this world. But Jesus speaks of a glory he had before the world even existed.

mike

[mikeboll64]

Ed,

Pick a point and ask a question about it. Your post of hundreds of words of scripture says nothing to me about your understanding.

Btw, if Jesus is the one who sowed the good seed, then the referrence to the seed being the “word of God” is a different referrence than Jesus being called the “Word of God” because he is God's spokesman. For Jesus did not sow himself, did he?

mike

[GeneBalthrop]

Mike…………That Gory was in the Prophetic Word of GOD , He was the “Seed” spoken of to bruise the head of the serpent, Every thing written about Jesus was to His Glory , but he only had it in the foreknowledge of GOD he did not have it until he acquired it after his resurrection, but it indeed was a Glory he had with the Father before he ever existed as the one to fulfill and attained to that Glory. We also have that glory reserved in heaven for us to, just as he did when he was on the earth. Your Gnostic and Trinitarian Preexistence teaching is stopping you from understand this brother, IMO. EdJ and Marty are right on this one Mike.

peace and love…………………………..gene

[terraricca]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Jan. 31 2011,12:25)

Mike…………That Gory was in the Prophetic Word of GOD , He was the “Seed” spoken of to bruise the head of the serpent, Every thing written about Jesus was to His Glory , but he only had it in the foreknowledge of GOD he did not have it until he acquired it after his resurrection, but it indeed was a Glory he had with the Father before he ever existed as the one to fulfill and attained to that Glory.  We also have that glory reserved in heaven for us to, just as he did when he was on the earth. Your Gnostic and Trinitarian Preexistence teaching is stopping you from understand this brother, IMO. EdJ and Marty are right on this one Mike. peace and love…………………………..gene

gene

do you know what is the glory we all talk about here,

maybe this would solve the problem,

many here do not know what is the glory of God ,the glory of Christ and the glory of 144k and last the glory of men ,

but all glory are to be in the glory of God…

Pierre

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Jan. 31 2011,05:25)

Every thing written about Jesus was to His Glory , but he only had it in the foreknowledge of GOD he did not have it until he acquired it after his resurrection, but it indeed was a Glory he had with the Father before he ever existed as the one to fulfill and attained to that Glory.

Gene,

You seem to get hung up on simple words.  Jesus said “the glory I HAD”.  What does “I HAD” mean to you?

True, glory awaits some of us who overcome.  But none of us today can speak about that FUTURE glory as “the glory WE HAD before the world”, can we?

You are lost on simple words.  Like “Spirit   OF   God”.  And “the Word   BECAME    flesh”.  And “the glory   I HAD   before the world”.

mike

[Ed J]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 31 2011,04:45)

Ed, Pick a point and ask a question about it.  Your post of hundreds of words of scripture says nothing to me about your understanding.   Btw, if Jesus is the one who sowed the good seed, then the referrence to the seed being the “word of God” is a different referrence than Jesus being called the “Word of God” because he is God's spokesman.  For Jesus did not sow himself, did he? mike

Hi Mike,

Jesus baptizing us with the “HolySpirit”
and the Son of man planting the Good seed
are one and the same; you never considered this?
And with fire, because YHVH is the fire. (Hebrews 12:29)

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[GeneBalthrop]

Mike…….I am not hung up on simple words , you simply do  not know how they are used in the context of the text they are used in. IMO Tell us this, where it says ” WHAT IS MAN THAT THOU CONSIDERED HIM , YOU HAVE MADE HIM LOWER THEN THE ANGELS FOR THE TASTING OF DEATH BUT YOU HAVE (CROWNED) (a past tense expression) With GLORY AND HONOR”, Now tell us has this happened Yet to man in general (NO) IT HAS NOT, but will it ?, (YES) it will. So if you can get you brain wrapped around that, then it should be very easy for you to understand the GLORY Jesus HAD  with GOD Before he ever came into being on the earth. As i have said many times here you and a others have bought into the LIE fostered by the Gnostic's and Trinitarians that Jesus Preexisted his berth on earth. IMO

peace and love………………………………………………gene

[terraricca]

Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 31 2011,17:42)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 31 2011,04:45) Ed, Pick a point and ask a question about it.  Your post of hundreds of words of scripture says nothing to me about your understanding.   Btw, if Jesus is the one who sowed the good seed, then the referrence to the seed being the “word of God” is a different referrence than Jesus being called the “Word of God” because he is God's spokesman.  For Jesus did not sow himself, did he? mike Hi Mike, Jesus baptizing us with the “HolySpirit” and the Son of man planting the Good seed are one and the same; you never considered this? And with fire, because YHVH is the fire. (Hebrews 12:29) God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

edj

being baptised ,in the name of Jesus ?

being baptised ,in the name of the father ?

being baptised in the holy spirit ?

could you answer those questions ??

Pierre

[Ed J]

Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 31 2011,13:56)

Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 31 2011,17:42) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 31 2011,04:45) Ed, Pick a point and ask a question about it.  Your post of hundreds of words of scripture says nothing to me about your understanding.   Btw, if Jesus is the one who sowed the good seed, then the referrence to the seed being the “word of God” is a different referrence than Jesus being called the “Word of God” because he is God's spokesman.  For Jesus did not sow himself, did he? mike Hi Mike, Jesus baptizing us with the “HolySpirit” and the Son of man planting the Good seed are one and the same; you never considered this? And with fire, because YHVH is the fire. (Hebrews 12:29) God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org edj being baptised ,in the name of Jesus ? being baptised ,in the name of the father ? being baptised in the holy spirit ? could you answer those questions ?? Pierre

Hi Pierre,

Those are incomplete questions? To illustrate this: you try to answer this question…

Being born, with the name John?  
Could you answer this question ??

eD j (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Baker]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Jan. 31 2011,03:17)

Mike………So now its is “SPOKESMAN” AND “DUBBED” the WORD of GOD. So who has said different , Jesus was Indeed the one who Spoke GOD'S “WORDS” to Us (in fact) GOD was (TRULY) (IN) Him speaking (HIS WORDS) through his mouth. It was GOD Speaking Not Jesus through Jesus Mouth. So Jesus said accurately the “WORDS” he Spoke were (NOT) His WORDS, so then Jesus speaking GODS WORDS does (NOT) Make Him the WORDS He was SPEAKING or DUBBING right. That is the Point here i am trying to make. It seems you finally agree. IMO peace and love………………………….gene

Where did you learn how to “SPIN” like that?

You need to go on “the Factor” with Bill.

Georg

[theodorej]

Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 31 2011,03:46)

Quote (theodorej @ Jan. 30 2011,23:36) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Jan. 29 2011,01:36) TheodoreJ………..Indeed God and His words are on and the same, and Jesus certainely Had God the Father (IN) Him as he said he did. But none of that makes Jesus the creator of anything, He is unique in this sense he was the (first) from man kind to be raised unto eternal life and has the glory and honor of the first born of man brothers and sisters, He has all seven of the Sprits of GOD on him , he has been grately blessed by God that is for sure, But to move his likeness away from our in most surely Antichrist teachings, and comes from false Christian greek mythology of man gods and women having childern with their pagan gods,. God was not dealing Morphed beings or other Gods or demigods, he was dealing with MAN KIND . Jesus said 87 times He was a SON OF MAN, He certainely did not seperate Himself from us at any time in his life. This whole concept of Jesus being something different in its very nature has a seperating effect it makes him different then we are and that brakes down our sense of relating with him in human terms and the is truly against Christ. Think about it. theordorej………….Type in DENCK and read what he wrote, i believe it will help brother. peace and love……………………………………gene Greetings Gene…..Before I read Denck….The personage that is Jesus did not exist physically at the time of creation,however,the Word of The Eternal did and that was the means by which all things were created….That same word became flesh and lived among us….That same word was God,That same word was with God….Gods ways and understanding is higher than ours….To underestimate the ability of the Eternal is folly on our behalf…and to try and equate it to our reasoning and understanding is to miss the purpose of his word which is for education and correction… Hi Theodore J, And “The Word” also inspired men to write the bible. 2Peter 1:21 For the prophecy(The Bible) came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the HolySpirit. So now you know who “The Word” really is! Matthew 10:20 For it is not ye that speak (The Word), but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you. God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Greetings Ed….. The word was penned by men….the inspiration was of the spirit….

[GeneBalthrop]

Georg……….What? i am putting a spin by quoting what Mike has just said, Georg, that is the reason you preexistences never come to understanding you block yourself from even reading things Posted rightly. This is caused by your preconditioning of past false teachings of Preexistence and your Trinitarian past association, IMO.

peace and love………………………………………….gene

[Author]

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