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Mike……….Type in this name and read what he said and see what you think………………DENCK
peace and love………………………………..gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Jan. 27 2011,03:00) theodoreJ………Exactly what all Trinitarians believe as they are the one who most put forth the false teaching of Preexistence of all religions, they recieved it from the Gnostic's who also taught that same thing Jesus preexisted his berth, as some sort of “BERING” OR GOD OR SUPER ANGEL OR DEMIGOD. All false Christianity believes in Jesus' pre-earth existence but none produce any (SPECIFIC) text that say Jesus ever existed as any kind of Being before his berth , nor did Jesus say it either, and the Apostles never even mention or even suggest such a thing. Bottom line is all Christendom has bought into this false teaching introduced by the GNOSTIC'S. This is the force that makes Jesus different from us and separates him from us humans and splits our identity with him, this Spirit (intellect) is the Spirit of Antichrist spoken of by John and it creates the MAN of SIN this false “IMAGE” of Jesus Himself which he will destory at his return as 2Ths 2 says. The teaching of Jesus as a preexistent begin is what created this false Image of Him , he is the only one who is sitting in the temple of God and being “displayed” as GOD as Paul said. This teaching IS THE LIE mentioned by PAUL , there is not such thing as (THE) “Man of Sin” , it is a (FALSE “IMAGE” OR LIE) ABOUT JESUS HIMSELF. Stop and ask your self is there any other Being on earth that says he or she is GOD, no not even the pope says that, so who else is said to be a Man and Yet a GOD also , is it not Jesus himself, is he not taught as a GOD and CREATOR of EVERYTHING, This false teachings about Jesus creates a False IMAGE of HIM and that “False Image” Is who the MAN of SIN is. IMO
peace and love to you and yours……………………………………..gene
Greetings Gene…..Please allow me to clarify my position….Scripture is replete with reference to the participation in the creation of all things…The personage of Jesus the man did not prexist his birth….The power and his essense did, that being the WORD of the Eternal…An anti christ is a very strong indictment…An understanding is what is sought here….Any thing is possible with God….I think we can agree….So why can't the Eternal take the power that is his very Word,the same word that gave us his law, and give it human life and, call it Emmanual ( God with US )…TheodoreJ………..Indeed God and His words are on and the same, and Jesus certainely Had God the Father (IN) Him as he said he did. But none of that makes Jesus the creator of anything, He is unique in this sense he was the (first) from man kind to be raised unto eternal life and has the glory and honor of the first born of man brothers and sisters, He has all seven of the Sprits of GOD on him , he has been grately blessed by God that is for sure, But to move his likeness away from our in most surely Antichrist teachings, and comes from false Christian greek mythology of man gods and women having childern with their pagan gods,. God was not dealing Morphed beings or other Gods or demigods, he was dealing with MAN KIND . Jesus said 87 times He was a SON OF MAN, He certainely did not seperate Himself from us at any time in his life. This whole concept of Jesus being something different in its very nature has a seperating effect it makes him different then we are and that brakes down our sense of relating with him in human terms and the is truly against Christ. Think about it.
theordorej………….Type in DENCK and read what he wrote, i believe it will help brother.
peace and love……………………………………gene
Quote (942767 @ Jan. 27 2011,05:34) Quote (Baker @ Jan. 25 2011,11:14) Quote (942767 @ Jan. 25 2011,03:54) Hi Irene: How about the following scripture:
Quote Ephesians 3:9And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: This again indicates that God created all things. Jesus is not the creator.
Love in Christ,
Marty
did you not notice what it says?“””God, who created all things “”by”” Jesus Christ:”””
other scripture say, “”through”” him were all things created.
God “gave” his son the power to create.
How does a General in the army have his commands carried out? “”through”” his officers.
How does a President of a company have his orders carried out? “”through”” his subordinates.
The highest in command gives the order, the lower carries them out.
I don't find that so hard to understand.Georg
Yes, Georg:I noticed what the scripture states: “God created all things by Jesus Christ” which means:
Quote 1 Peter 1:18Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; 19But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
20Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
Quote 1 Colossians 1:12Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: 13Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
14In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
15Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
16For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Notice the last part of verse 16 says all things were created for him, and that God indicates that God created all things and not Jesus, otherwise it would say “for himself”.
Jesus existed in the heart of the Father prior to the creation of the heavens and the earth and all of its host.
Love in Christ,
Marty
MartyJesus “IS” the first born of “ALL” of God's creation, Col. 1:15; the “beginning” of God's creation, Rev. 3:14.
He was “there” when the world was created, not only in the fathers heart.
Let me ask you, what I ask gene.
What was Jesus asking the Father when he ask him this?Jhn 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
Jhn 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
What was his glory “”before”” the world was? a thought in his Fathers mind? Is that what Jesus ask to become again? quite ridiculous if you ask me.
See if “”YOU”” can give me a “straight” answer, gene never did.Georg
Quote (Baker @ Jan. 29 2011,02:08) Quote (942767 @ Jan. 27 2011,05:34) Quote (Baker @ Jan. 25 2011,11:14) Quote (942767 @ Jan. 25 2011,03:54) Hi Irene: How about the following scripture:
Quote Ephesians 3:9And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: This again indicates that God created all things. Jesus is not the creator.
Love in Christ,
Marty did you not notice what it says?“””God, who created all things “”by”” Jesus Christ:”””
other scripture say, “”through”” him were all things created.
God “gave” his son the power to create.
How does a General in the army have his commands carried out? “”through”” his officers.
How does a President of a company have his orders carried out? “”through”” his subordinates.
The highest in command gives the order, the lower carries them out.
I don't find that so hard to understand.Georg
Yes, Georg:I noticed what the scripture states: “God created all things by Jesus Christ” which means:
Quote 1 Peter 1:18Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; 19But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
20Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
Quote 1 Colossians 1:12Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: 13Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
14In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
15Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
16For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Notice the last part of verse 16 says all things were created for him, and that God indicates that God created all things and not Jesus, otherwise it would say “for himself”.
Jesus existed in the heart of the Father prior to the creation of the heavens and the earth and all of its host.
Love in Christ,
Marty
MartyJesus “IS” the first born of “ALL” of God's creation, Col. 1:15; the “beginning” of God's creation, Rev. 3:14.
He was “there” when the world was created, not only in the fathers heart.
Let me ask you, what I ask gene.
What was Jesus asking the Father when he ask him this?Jhn 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
Jhn 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
What was his glory “”before”” the world was? a thought in his Fathers mind? Is that what Jesus ask to become again? quite ridiculous if you ask me.
See if “”YOU”” can give me a “straight” answer, gene never did.Georg
Hi Irene:The staight answer is that God has forseen everything from the beginning to the end, and so, He knew that a particular point in time He would have a Son in through whom He would fulfill His plan for humanity. He forsaw that Jesus would obey Him without sin unto death and that He would exalt Him to His right hand as head of the church. (This is the glory that of which Jesus is speaking) Also, His glory is that he is God's heir. All things were made for him, and we are joint heirs with him. He is the first man ever to be born of God, and so, therefore, He is God's “firstborn” of all creation.
Quote John 17:4I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do. 5And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
Quote John 17:22And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: 23I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
24Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (942767 @ Jan. 29 2011,04:31) Quote (Baker @ Jan. 29 2011,02:08) Quote (942767 @ Jan. 27 2011,05:34) Quote (Baker @ Jan. 25 2011,11:14) Quote (942767 @ Jan. 25 2011,03:54) Hi Irene: How about the following scripture:
Quote Ephesians 3:9And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: This again indicates that God created all things. Jesus is not the creator.
Love in Christ,
Marty did you not notice what it says?“””God, who created all things “”by”” Jesus Christ:”””
other scripture say, “”through”” him were all things created.
God “gave” his son the power to create.
How does a General in the army have his commands carried out? “”through”” his officers.
How does a President of a company have his orders carried out? “”through”” his subordinates.
The highest in command gives the order, the lower carries them out.
I don't find that so hard to understand.Georg
Yes, Georg:I noticed what the scripture states: “God created all things by Jesus Christ” which means:
Quote 1 Peter 1:18Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; 19But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
20Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
Quote 1 Colossians 1:12Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: 13Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
14In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
15Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
16For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Notice the last part of verse 16 says all things were created for him, and that God indicates that God created all things and not Jesus, otherwise it would say “for himself”.
Jesus existed in the heart of the Father prior to the creation of the heavens and the earth and all of its host.
Love in Christ,
Marty
MartyJesus “IS” the first born of “ALL” of God's creation, Col. 1:15; the “beginning” of God's creation, Rev. 3:14.
He was “there” when the world was created, not only in the fathers heart.
Let me ask you, what I ask gene.
What was Jesus asking the Father when he ask him this?Jhn 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
Jhn 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
What was his glory “”before”” the world was? a thought in his Fathers mind? Is that what Jesus ask to become again? quite ridiculous if you ask me.
See if “”YOU”” can give me a “straight” answer, gene never did.Georg
Hi Irene:The staight answer is that God has forseen everything from the beginning to the end, and so, He knew that a particular point in time He would have a Son in through whom He would fulfill His plan for humanity. He forsaw that Jesus would obey Him without sin unto death and that He would exalt Him to His right hand as head of the church. (This is the glory that of which Jesus is speaking) Also, His glory is that he is God's heir. All things were made for him, and we are joint heirs with him. He is the first man ever to be born of God, and so, therefore, He is God's “firstborn” of all creation.
Quote John 17:4I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do. 5And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
Quote John 17:22And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: 23I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
24Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Marty! What yiou are saying makes no sense. That is how Jesus went back to? As a forseen in Gods mind?
I thought you knew better then that…. FIRSTBORN OF ALL, ALL, ALL CREATION. In Col. 1:16 it says thisCol 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether [they be] thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
In order to create ALL THINGS Jesus had to be there…..Jhn 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
John says the same thing……
You adding to Scripture when yiu say that Jesus was the firstborn of God, that is not what it says. And WHO CREATED US< the buggyman….I thought God made us in His image…..Jesus was born of God and born of man, Remember Maria?
? Oh, She had nothing to do with it. Jesus is called Son of God and Son of man. Because He first came forth from God before He became forth by Maria, who is Human…. and that is why Jesus is also Son of man..,….That is all my friend I should listen to our New member who said “I am out of here, there are enough Scriptures to show that Jesus preexisted His Birth on earth….
Peace IreneQuote (Gene Balthrop @ Jan. 28 2011,14:42) Mike……….Type in this name and read what he said and see what you think………………DENCK peace and love………………………………..gene
Type it in WHERE? I searched HN and didn't find anything.mike
Quote (942767 @ Jan. 29 2011,04:31) Quote (Baker @ Jan. 29 2011,02:08) Quote (942767 @ Jan. 27 2011,05:34) Quote (Baker @ Jan. 25 2011,11:14) Quote (942767 @ Jan. 25 2011,03:54) Hi Irene: How about the following scripture:
Quote Ephesians 3:9And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: This again indicates that God created all things. Jesus is not the creator.
Love in Christ,
Marty did you not notice what it says?“””God, who created all things “”by”” Jesus Christ:”””
other scripture say, “”through”” him were all things created.
God “gave” his son the power to create.
How does a General in the army have his commands carried out? “”through”” his officers.
How does a President of a company have his orders carried out? “”through”” his subordinates.
The highest in command gives the order, the lower carries them out.
I don't find that so hard to understand.Georg
Yes, Georg:I noticed what the scripture states: “God created all things by Jesus Christ” which means:
Quote 1 Peter 1:18Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; 19But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
20Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
Quote 1 Colossians 1:12Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: 13Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
14In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
15Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
16For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Notice the last part of verse 16 says all things were created for him, and that God indicates that God created all things and not Jesus, otherwise it would say “for himself”.
Jesus existed in the heart of the Father prior to the creation of the heavens and the earth and all of its host.
Love in Christ,
Marty
MartyJesus “IS” the first born of “ALL” of God's creation, Col. 1:15; the “beginning” of God's creation, Rev. 3:14.
He was “there” when the world was created, not only in the fathers heart.
Let me ask you, what I ask gene.
What was Jesus asking the Father when he ask him this?Jhn 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
Jhn 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
What was his glory “”before”” the world was? a thought in his Fathers mind? Is that what Jesus ask to become again? quite ridiculous if you ask me.
See if “”YOU”” can give me a “straight” answer, gene never did.Georg
Hi Irene:The staight answer is that God has forseen everything from the beginning to the end, and so, He knew that a particular point in time He would have a Son in through whom He would fulfill His plan for humanity. He forsaw that Jesus would obey Him without sin unto death and that He would exalt Him to His right hand as head of the church. (This is the glory that of which Jesus is speaking) Also, His glory is that he is God's heir. All things were made for him, and we are joint heirs with him. He is the first man ever to be born of God, and so, therefore, He is God's “firstborn” of all creation.
Quote John 17:4I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do. 5And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
Quote John 17:22And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: 23I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
24Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.
Love in Christ,
Marty
In other words, you, and gene, have no clue as to what your talking about.
Don't you two feel at all embarrassed to even print stuff like that?Georg
Quote (Baker @ Jan. 29 2011,21:11) Quote (942767 @ Jan. 29 2011,04:31) Quote (Baker @ Jan. 29 2011,02:08) Quote (942767 @ Jan. 27 2011,05:34) Quote (Baker @ Jan. 25 2011,11:14) Quote (942767 @ Jan. 25 2011,03:54) Hi Irene: How about the following scripture:
Quote Ephesians 3:9And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: This again indicates that God created all things. Jesus is not the creator.
Love in Christ,
Marty did you not notice what it says?“””God, who created all things “”by”” Jesus Christ:”””
other scripture say, “”through”” him were all things created.
God “gave” his son the power to create.
How does a General in the army have his commands carried out? “”through”” his officers.
How does a President of a company have his orders carried out? “”through”” his subordinates.
The highest in command gives the order, the lower carries them out.
I don't find that so hard to understand.Georg
Yes, Georg:I noticed what the scripture states: “God created all things by Jesus Christ” which means:
Quote 1 Peter 1:18Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; 19But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
20Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
Quote 1 Colossians 1:12Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: 13Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
14In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
15Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
16For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Notice the last part of verse 16 says all things were created for him, and that God indicates that God created all things and not Jesus, otherwise it would say “for himself”.
Jesus existed in the heart of the Father prior to the creation of the heavens and the earth and all of its host.
Love in Christ,
Marty
MartyJesus “IS” the first born of “ALL” of God's creation, Col. 1:15; the “beginning” of God's creation, Rev. 3:14.
He was “there” when the world was created, not only in the fathers heart.
Let me ask you, what I ask gene.
What was Jesus asking the Father when he ask him this?Jhn 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
Jhn 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
What was his glory “”before”” the world was? a thought in his Fathers mind? Is that what Jesus ask to become again? quite ridiculous if you ask me.
See if “”YOU”” can give me a “straight” answer, gene never did.Georg
Hi Irene:The staight answer is that God has forseen everything from the beginning to the end, and so, He knew that a particular point in time He would have a Son in through whom He would fulfill His plan for humanity. He forsaw that Jesus would obey Him without sin unto death and that He would exalt Him to His right hand as head of the church. (This is the glory that of which Jesus is speaking) Also, His glory is that he is God's heir. All things were made for him, and we are joint heirs with him. He is the first man ever to be born of God, and so, therefore, He is God's “firstborn” of all creation.
Quote John 17:4I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do. 5And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
Quote John 17:22And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: 23I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
24Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.
Love in Christ,
Marty
In other words, you, and gene, have no clue as to what your talking about.
Don't you two feel at all embarrassed to even print stuff like that?Georg
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 29 2011,19:36) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Jan. 28 2011,14:42) Mike……….Type in this name and read what he said and see what you think………………DENCK peace and love………………………………..gene
Type it in WHERE? I searched HN and didn't find anything.mike
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 29 2011,12:36) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Jan. 28 2011,14:42) Mike……….Type in this name and read what he said and see what you think………………DENCK peace and love………………………………..gene
Type it in WHERE? I searched HN and didn't find anything.mike
Mike! I went to the Internet and Hans Denck came up….Peace Irene
Mike………….. Mike it's not on the HN site just type it in on the Internet and he will come up. Read what Denck had to say on religion he was a great German religious teacher and Scholar I agree with much of what he said , there always was a few who did not buy into the false teachings of the Gnostic's and Trinitarians and Preexistences , but it cost most of them their lives. Buzzard is a modern day scholar, check out on line his last debate with Sanders on religion. Denck pretty well nailed it as far as i am concerned. My views are almost exactly in line with his from what i have read so far.
peace and love…………………………………….gene
Mike……..Another good source is Sir Issac Newtons teachings on religion. and if you can get the book “OUT OF THE FLAMES” the story of Michael Servetus who was burned to death by the murder John Calvin, the supposed great Protestant reformer . Bulinger is also another good source as well as Thomas Jefferson view on religion. I believe these people had more insight into the truth of God then most .
peace and love………………………………………..gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Jan. 30 2011,00:37) Mike………….. Mike it's not on the HN site just type it in on the Internet and he will come up. Read what Denck had to say on religion he was a great German religious teacher and Scholar I agree with much of what he said , there always was a few who did not buy into the false teachings of the Gnostic's and Trinitarians and Preexistences , but it cost most of them their lives. Buzzard is a modern day scholar, check out on line his last debate with Sanders on religion. Denck pretty well nailed it as far as i am concerned. My views are almost exactly in line with his from what i have read so far. peace and love…………………………………….gene
Oh! Okay, I'll check it out soon. Thanks.Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Jan. 29 2011,01:36) TheodoreJ………..Indeed God and His words are on and the same, and Jesus certainely Had God the Father (IN) Him as he said he did. But none of that makes Jesus the creator of anything, He is unique in this sense he was the (first) from man kind to be raised unto eternal life and has the glory and honor of the first born of man brothers and sisters, He has all seven of the Sprits of GOD on him , he has been grately blessed by God that is for sure, But to move his likeness away from our in most surely Antichrist teachings, and comes from false Christian greek mythology of man gods and women having childern with their pagan gods,. God was not dealing Morphed beings or other Gods or demigods, he was dealing with MAN KIND . Jesus said 87 times He was a SON OF MAN, He certainely did not seperate Himself from us at any time in his life. This whole concept of Jesus being something different in its very nature has a seperating effect it makes him different then we are and that brakes down our sense of relating with him in human terms and the is truly against Christ. Think about it. theordorej………….Type in DENCK and read what he wrote, i believe it will help brother.
peace and love……………………………………gene
Greetings Gene…..Before I read Denck….The personage that is Jesus did not exist physically at the time of creation,however,the Word of The Eternal did and that was the means by which all things were created….That same word became flesh and lived among us….That same word was God,That same word was with God….Gods ways and understanding is higher than ours….To underestimate the ability of the Eternal is folly on our behalf…and to try and equate it to our reasoning and understanding is to miss the purpose of his word which is for education and correction…theodorej………….I agree with what you wrote about the word (GOD) being (IN) the Man Jesus. I never disagreed with that, i am fully convened that God the Father was truly and fully (IN) Jesus. Jesus has and Had (after the Jordan) all seven spirits of the living GOD (IN) HIM and still does. WE also can have that same anointing on us, Just as it say until we (ALL) come to the full stature and measure of the Christ, or Anointing. I have no problem with the Word coming to be (IN) Jesus, Just as he said GOD the Father was (IN) HIM. But there is a BIG DIFFERENCE in saying GOD was (IN) Jesus and HIM being that GOD, or any MORPHED Bring that preexisted HIS Berth on Earth. That is where the rub come to play IMO?
As far as limiting GOD'S Powers i have never done that and will not either, But i will strive to understand Him and his words and his reason for doing what he does we need to all search the deep thing of God by the HOLY Spirit given us. IMO
peace and love to you and yous……………………………………..gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Jan. 31 2011,01:56) I have no problem with the Word coming to be (IN) Jesus
Hi Gene,We all know that YOU have no problem with it. But unfortunately, that's not what the scripture says.
Gene's translation: The Word came to be IN someone who was flesh.
Actual translation: The Word BECAME flesh.
Quite a difference there, huh?
peace and love,
mikeMIke………..indeed “quite a difference”. So being you are insisting a “WORD “IS” FLESH” or as you say the WORD BECAME FLESH. when was the last time you (SEEN) a FLESH WORD , I have seen a word spelled out and spoken many times in my life but i have never see a FLESH WORD have you?. if you say you have then it time for the loony bin for you. John 1:1 say the WORD was with GOD and (WAS) GOD and Jesus said GOD was (IN) Him, so common sense should tell you that GOD was the WORD that was (IN) Jesus and Jesus plainly said the word he spoke 'WERE NOT HIS WORD” so How could even say Jesus was the “WORD” himslef. Mike you need to come out of those false teachings taught by Gnostic's and Trinitarians and there teaching of the Preexistences of Jesus.
Mike when Thomas said “MY Lord (AND) MY GOD, HE WAS NOT JOKING , God was truly there (IN) Jesus, but that does not make Jesus a GOD no more then it would have Made the Prophets GOD who GOD Spoke through in the Past. When are you going to get it brother.
peace and love…………………………………………..gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Jan. 31 2011,02:46) So being you are insisting a “WORD “IS” FLESH” or as you say the WORD BECAME FLESH. when was the last time you (SEEN) a FLESH WORD ,
Ah, but many people saw the SPOKESMAN of God, also dubbed “the Word” of God, because he was the SPOKESMAN of God.The spokesman for the Abyssinian King is also called “the word of the King”. That is his title because he speaks the words of the King to the others.
And in that case, a “word” can be a flesh and blood person, right? Go ahead, tell me I'm wrong Gene.
You need to come out of the false teachings of the Unitarian Church, Gene.
mike
Gene and Theo! I agree with Mike, if that would be the only place the Word of God is mentioned, however to compare John with Rev. it makes it clear to the reader, at least to Mike, Ed. Pierre, Georg and myself, that it is Jesus who was with God. One thing I notice how Gene makes ONE PERSON out of John 1:1-14 when it is clear there are two…..And Jesus is the one who became flesh. And He will come back as The Word of God….
Rev 19:13 And he [was] clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
Rev 19:14 And the armies [which were] in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
Rev 19:16 And he hath on [his] vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
I don't know any other being but Jesus that fits this description, do you?Along with that goes more Scriptures like Jesus being the firstborn of all creation and firstborn of the dead. And by Jesus own words He said that He came down from Heaven to do the will of His father who SEND HIM. Since His Father send Him, He had to be some where else….Where was He??? He said He was send from Heaven…..
You know you have to either ignore over 40 Scriptures or interpret it your way, how Gene just did with John 1:1-14….And I find that wrong to do……
Peace Irene
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