Preexistence

[GeneBalthrop]

To All………..John 17:14…..> I have given them your word; and the world has hated them, because they are (NOT OF THE WORLD), (EVEN) OR THE SAME WAY , as (I) and NOT OF THE WORLD.

Here Jesus identify himself (exactly) as the disciples he identifies with. They were not of the World and neither was he.  So are we to assume Jesus was not even in the world when he said he was not of the world, and do we also assume the disciples were not either.  

John 17:16……> They are not of the world, even as (the same way) as I (Jesus) am not of the world.

John 17:18…..> As (the same way) you have sent me (Jesus) INTO THE WORLD, (EVEN) SO (the exact same way) I  (ALSO) (the same way) SENT THEM into the world.

John 17:21………..> That they (ALL) may be ONE; as you, Father , are IN ME, and I and in you, that THEY (the disciples) ALSO (the same way) MAY BE ONE IN US. 22…> And the GLORY which you gave me  (same glory) I HAVE GIVEN THEM; that they may be one, even (the same way) we are ONE> …23, I in them and you in me, that they may be made (PERFECT) in ONE; and that the world may know that you have sent me, and hast loved them, AS (the same way) you have loved Me.

Jesus here has made no distinction between Himself and His disciples from his relationship with GOD the Father. Many think GOD was some where else away from Jesus when he was on the earth that is not true GOD the FATHER was Right there with Him on earth at the time he walked this earth and indeed GOD did Send him while he was within him.  GOD the FATHER was (IN) Jesus sending forth and doing His works in Him. Just as he was in the Apostles also. And sending them out into the world to preach the Gospel too.

Again All who separate Jesus from our (EXACT) (IDENTITY) are Separatist and are simple carrying the false teaching started by the GNOSTIC'S at the time of John. ANTICHRISTS

peace and love………………………gene

[gollamudi]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Jan. 12 2011,10:22)

To All………..John 17:14…..> I have given them your word; and the world has hated them, because they are (NOT OF THE WORLD), (EVEN) OR THE SAME WAY , as (I) and NOT OF THE WORLD. Here Jesus identify himself (exactly) as the disciples he identifies with. They were not of the World and neither was he.  So are we to assume Jesus was not even in the world when he said he was not of the world, and  do we also assume the disciples were not either.   John 17:16……> They are not of the world, even as (the same way) as I (Jesus) am not of the world. John 17:18…..> As (the same way) you have sent me (Jesus) INTO THE WORLD, (EVEN) SO (the exact same way) I  (ALSO) (the same way) SENT THEM into the world. John 17:21………..> That they (ALL) may be ONE; as you, Father , are IN ME, and I and in you, that THEY (the disciples) ALSO (the same way) MAY BE ONE IN US. 22…> And the GLORY which you gave me  (same glory) I HAVE GIVEN THEM; that they may be one, even (the same way) we are ONE> …23, I in them and you in me, that they may be made (PERFECT) in ONE; and that the world may know that you have sent me, and hast loved them, AS (the same way) you have loved Me. Jesus here has made no distinction between Himself and His disciples from his relationship with GOD the Father. Many think GOD was some where else away from Jesus when he was on the earth that is not true GOD the FATHER was Right there with Him on earth at the time he walked this earth and indeed GOD did Send him while he was within him.  GOD the FATHER was (IN) Jesus sending forth and doing His works in Him. Just as he was in the Apostles also. And sending them out into the world to preach the Gospel too. Again All who separate Jesus from our (EXACT) (IDENTITY) are Separatist and are simple carrying the false teaching started by the GNOSTIC'S at the time of John. ANTICHRISTS peace and love………………………gene

Good arguments brother Gene. Jewish Messiah was never meant other than human being born to human parents. Literal preexistence of Messiah is some thing unknown to Judaism and Hebrew Bible.

Love and peace to you
Adam

[GeneBalthrop]

Adam………….Amen to that Adam.

peace and love to you and yours brother……………………………….gene

[Baker]

Quote (gollamudi @ Jan. 13 2011,19:11)

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Jan. 12 2011,10:22) To All………..John 17:14…..> I have given them your word; and the world has hated them, because they are (NOT OF THE WORLD), (EVEN) OR THE SAME WAY , as (I) and NOT OF THE WORLD. Here Jesus identify himself (exactly) as the disciples he identifies with. They were not of the World and neither was he.  So are we to assume Jesus was not even in the world when he said he was not of the world, and  do we also assume the disciples were not either.   John 17:16……> They are not of the world, even as (the same way) as I (Jesus) am not of the world. John 17:18…..> As (the same way) you have sent me (Jesus) INTO THE WORLD, (EVEN) SO (the exact same way) I  (ALSO) (the same way) SENT THEM into the world. John 17:21………..> That they (ALL) may be ONE; as you, Father , are IN ME, and I and in you, that THEY (the disciples) ALSO (the same way) MAY BE ONE IN US. 22…> And the GLORY which you gave me  (same glory) I HAVE GIVEN THEM; that they may be one, even (the same way) we are ONE> …23, I in them and you in me, that they may be made (PERFECT) in ONE; and that the world may know that you have sent me, and hast loved them, AS (the same way) you have loved Me. Jesus here has made no distinction between Himself and His disciples from his relationship with GOD the Father. Many think GOD was some where else away from Jesus when he was on the earth that is not true GOD the FATHER was Right there with Him on earth at the time he walked this earth and indeed GOD did Send him while he was within him.  GOD the FATHER was (IN) Jesus sending forth and doing His works in Him. Just as he was in the Apostles also. And sending them out into the world to preach the Gospel too. Again All who separate Jesus from our (EXACT) (IDENTITY) are Separatist and are simple carrying the false teaching started by the GNOSTIC'S at the time of John. ANTICHRISTS peace and love………………………gene Good arguments brother Gene. Jewish Messiah was never meant other than human being born to human parents. Literal preexistence of Messiah is some thing unknown to Judaism and Hebrew Bible. Love and peace to you

Wrong Adam!

Jhn 1:1 ¶ In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.  
Jhn 1:2   The same was in the beginning with God.  

Jhn 1:3   All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.  

Jhn 1:4   In him was life; and the life was the light of men.  

Jhn 1:5   And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.  

 There are more Scripture then Jiohn 1;1 which by the way says in verse 14 that He became flesh.  So why did Jesus who was The Word of God have to say that if He was only flesh.  Also Rev. shows us how Jesus will return AND THAT HE WAS THE WORD OF GOD, because there is no other being that fits this description in the next Scriptures…

Rev 19:13   And he [was] clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

Rev 19:14   And the armies [which were] in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.  

Rev 19:15   And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.  

Rev 19:16   And he hath on [his] vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.  

We should all know who that is, do you??

The one Scripture that Gene tries to discredit has little to do with the ones I quoted…… If He did not have a glory with His Father, then what glory did He have?

Jhn 17:1 ¶ These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:  

Jhn 17:2   As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
 
Jhn 17:3   And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.  

Jhn 17:4   I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.  

Jhn 17:5   And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.  

Where did God send Jesus from??

Jhn 6:38   For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that send Me….

Jhn 8:57   Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?  

Jhn 8:58   Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.  

Col 1:13   Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated [us] into the kingdom of his dear Son:  

Col 1:14   In whom we have redemption through his blood, [even] the forgiveness of sins:  

Col 1:15   Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:  

Col 1:16   For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether [they be] thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:  

Col 1:17   And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.  

Col 1:18   And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all [things] he might have the preeminence.  

In these verses we see that Jesus was the firstborn of all creation and the firstborn of the death, so He may have preeminence, meaning He was first in all…

Rev 3:14 ¶ And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;  

All Scriptures copied and pasted from the Blue letter Bible of KJ on the Internet…
Peace Irene

[GeneBalthrop]

Adam……Right scripture say in the beginning was the word and the word was with GOD and the word WAS GOD. Another words GOD and His words are one and the Same being.

But IRENE say in the beginning was Jesus and the Jesus was with GOD and the JESUS was GOD, out of one side of her mouth, then say O by the way Jesus is not really a GOD. MASS CONFUSION and DISTORTION OF WHAT IS WRITTEN IN SCRIPTURES.

I know you already know this, but don 't get discouraged by these People they have NO IDEA WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT, JUST BLIND GUIDES TRYING TO GET PEOPLE TO FALL INTO THE DITCH THEIR IN> IMO

Peace and love to you and yours brother……………………………..gene

[gollamudi]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Jan. 16 2011,03:05)

Adam……Right scripture say in the beginning was the word and the word was with GOD and the word WAS GOD.  Another words GOD and His words are one and the Same being. But IRENE say in the beginning was Jesus and the Jesus was with GOD and the JESUS was GOD, out of one side of her mouth, then say O by the way Jesus is not really a GOD. MASS CONFUSION and DISTORTION OF WHAT IS WRITTEN IN SCRIPTURES. I know you already know this, but don 't get discouraged by these People they have NO IDEA WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT, JUST BLIND GUIDES TRYING TO GET PEOPLE TO FALL INTO THE DITCH THEIR IN> IMO Peace and love to you and yours brother……………………………..gene

Hi brother Gene,
I know the metaphors of prologue of Fourth Gospel created problem for many Christians in understanding Jesus' origins. They don't have problem in forcing 'word' as another being who was with God which may results to Polytheism which Jewish followers of Jesus never could dare to conceive such blasphemous Christology. I wonder if Jesus was the one who revealed the invisible God to us as per John 1:18 how could he be also a God-being and if so in what sense the writer meant of 'revealing'? Pre-existence in literal sense makes Jesus anti-Messiah than true Messiah forget about Jewish Messiah who is far beyond the likeness of Christian Messiah.

Love and peace to you
Adam

[GeneBalthrop]

Adam………..Yes brother they have perverted the Word of GOD and Jesus, and are indeed ANTICHRISTS, and because they preach SEPARATION , THEY (ARE) AND WILL BE SEPARATED FROM JESUS BOTH NOW AND IN THE FUTURE. They have taken hook  line and Sinker the false teachings of their teachers the GNOSTIC' S and will suffer the same fate . Because they loved not the truth God has sent to them a deluding Spirit (Intellect) that they should believe “THE LIE” taught by false Christianity. The apostate Churches!. IMO

peace and love to you and yours Adam……………………………………gene

[Baker]

Quote (gollamudi @ Jan. 17 2011,14:47)

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Jan. 16 2011,03:05) Adam……Right scripture say in the beginning was the word and the word was with GOD and the word WAS GOD.  Another words GOD and His words are one and the Same being. But IRENE say in the beginning was Jesus and the Jesus was with GOD and the JESUS was GOD, out of one side of her mouth, then say O by the way Jesus is not really a GOD. MASS CONFUSION and DISTORTION OF WHAT IS WRITTEN IN SCRIPTURES. I know you already know this, but don 't get discouraged by these People they have NO IDEA WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT, JUST BLIND GUIDES TRYING TO GET PEOPLE TO FALL INTO THE DITCH THEIR IN> IMO Peace and love to you and yours brother……………………………..gene Hi brother Gene, I know the metaphors of prologue of Fourth Gospel created problem for many Christians in understanding Jesus' origins. They don't have problem in forcing 'word' as another being who was with God which may results to Polytheism which Jewish followers of Jesus never could dare to conceive such blasphemous Christology. I wonder if Jesus was the one who revealed the invisible God to us as per John 1:18 how could he be also a God-being and if so in what sense the writer meant of 'revealing'? Pre-existence in literal sense makes Jesus anti-Messiah than true Messiah forget about Jewish Messiah who is far beyond the likeness of Christian Messiah. Love and peace to you Adam

Adam! All that you are doing is denying Scriptures. Not just one, but many…..I asked you to explain those Scriptures to me, and all you have done is denying them away. Even by Jesus own words. That my friend does not fit to well with me. It shows ignorance to say the least. You want to believe the Jew's who killed our Savior….Peace Irene
PS no reason to answer this post, because if you don't believe Jesus, you certainty not going to believe me……

[GeneBalthrop]

Adam …………Don't get discouraged by the insults of the ignorant brother.

peace and love to you and yours………………………………gene

[Baker]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Jan. 18 2011,10:13)

Adam …………Don't get discouraged by the insults of the ignorant brother. peace and love to you and yours………………………………gene

Gene!  You should talk, you have said I have the Spirit of Anti-Christ and that is nothing to you.  I have asked you and Adam to explain all those Scriptures I have given both of you.  Have you ever consider doing so?  No…..And it is just fine to say to me what he did, and you don't consider that an insult…..just because I don't agree with your both theology….To Adam Jesus is a false Messiah and not the Jewish Messiah….I don't know why I even bother with you…..
Peace Irene

[GeneBalthrop]

Irene……………If you believe as the Gnostic's did that Jesus was Not (TRULY) a Human beings coming into (EXISTENCE ) IN THE FLESH , IN (exactly the same way we do, and if you believe He was a Super Angel Morphed or another GOD or DEMIGOD Morphed in a Human Being , you are then in agreement with the (BASIC) teachings of the Gnostic's just as the trinitarians and all preexistences are, You are part of those who SEPARATE JESUS FROM OUR (EXACT) IDENTITY AND will meet the same fate. IMO, You can alway change Irene. IMO Jesus is exactly the same as we are Irene, a MAN OF MANY BROTHERS whom OUR GOD has highely EXALTED. A man from Man the first MAN to reach the GOAL GOD has for us ALL. IMO

peace and love……………………………………gene

[Proclaimer]

In the beginning was the Logos and the Logos was WITH God.
The Logos became flesh and we know that Jesus CAME in the flesh.
To further clarify, it states in scripture that God made all things through Jesus Christ and for him, just in case you didn't think that Jesus was the Logos that was with God in the beginning.

Now a question for those who will ignore what I wrote above.
Who was the first besides God?

We know, but what is your answer?

[Ed J]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Jan. 18 2011,02:38)

Adam………..Yes brother they have perverted the Word of GOD and Jesus, and are indeed ANTICHRISTS

Hi Gene,

You fry Irene when you say that; do you really believe they are 'antichrists'?

Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[GeneBalthrop]

EDJ…………I believe all who follow the Basic teachings of the GNOSTIC'S are Antichrists, and that basic teaching is a teaching that SEPARATES JESUS FOR OUR LIKENESS. All trinitarian teachings as well as preexistence teachings result from those Gnostic teachings and all make Jesus something different then we are, they are Separatist and that is what John was driving at by saying that was the Spirit (intellect) of Antichrist. Just go and read the Gnostic's teachings and see who it applies to trinitarians and Preexistences and you will have you answer , All these teaching believe Jesus came from the God or GODS that he was a GOD or some Demigod or Super angel of some kind preexisting his berth on earth, they all share the same basic fundamental points, of Separation of Jesus from our Human Identity. That was John's and Paul's concern this “MYSTERY OF INIQUITY” that was creeping into the church even then. Think about it.

peace and love……………………………….gene

[GeneBalthrop]

EDJ……….Go to bible truths.com and read what Ray Smith has on Hell Fire it is very good, i think you will find it very enlighten, He was a pastor in the wwcog I used to belong to i agree with much of what he has to say, many could learn a lot here from him. IMO

peace and love to you and your……………………………………gene

[Baker]

Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 21 2011,19:22)

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Jan. 18 2011,02:38) Adam………..Yes brother they have perverted the Word of GOD and Jesus, and are indeed ANTICHRISTS Hi Gene, You fry Irene when you say that; do you really believe they are 'antichrists'? Ed J http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Ed! gene will have to call not only myself but t8, Mike and YOU too Anti-Christ…..I care less what kind of label any man puts on me, I know what over 40 Scriptures teach me….. I will not deny them…. How ironic it is, that at one time We were just like Gene….But by the grace of God (and it is God who has to open your eyes) That we now understand…t8 asked a good question, bu did he respond? Of course not!!!! Even by Jesus own words He has said this

Jhn 8:57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?

Jhn 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

I also have given Gene this to explain who that is in

Rev 19:13 And he [was] clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

Rev 19:14 And the armies [which were] in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

Rev 19:16 And he hath on [his] vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

John 1:1 Gene tries to make it The Word of God, but along side Rev.19 it makes it clear who thev writer is talking about, and it is not The Word of Almighty God, but Jesus….and
John 1:1-14 it is Jesus also….
To ignore this is to calling Jesus a liar, not me! !!! !!

Peace and Love Irene

[mikeboll64]

Quote (gollamudi @ Jan. 13 2011,19:11)

Good arguments brother Gene. Jewish Messiah was never meant other than human being born to human parents. Literal preexistence of Messiah is some thing unknown to Judaism and Hebrew Bible. Love and peace to you Adam

Hi Adam,

You are right.  The Jews thought the Messiah would be just like them – a “human being born to human parents”.  But were they found out to be mistaken about this?  Of course they were.  First of all, Jesus was NOT born of human parentS, was he?

Secondly, what exactly do you think Jesus was teaching the Pharisees in the following passage?

Matthew 22 NIV
41 While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them, 42 “What do you think about the Messiah? Whose son is he?”
  “The son of David,” they replied.

43 He said to them, “How is it then that David, speaking by the Spirit, calls him ‘Lord’? For he says,

  44 “‘The Lord said to my Lord:
  “Sit at my right hand
until I put your enemies
  under your feet.”’

  45 If then David calls him ‘Lord,’ how can he be his son?” 46 No one could say a word in reply, and from that day on no one dared to ask him any more questions.

You can easily see that, like you pointed out, the Jews DID expect the Messiah to be a literal descendent of David – born in the usual way, and nothing more than a human born from TWO human parents.  But you can just as easily see that Jesus was teaching them something quite different from their understanding, right?

Jesus was making a point to say that the Messiah was something MORE THAN a “normal” descendent of David.  He was making the point that had the Messiah been nothing more than a literal descendent of David, David would have never called him “my Lord” by Spirit.

The Patriarch does not call any of his descendents “Lord” in Jewish culture.  The Patriarch is the “Lord” of his descendents, not the other way around.  And the Jews knew this, and were therefore rendered speechless by the teaching Jesus gave them.

Adam and Gene, Jesus was clearly teaching people who thought the Messiah would be a regular human being who was brought forth from TWO regular human parents………that this was NOT the whole story.

If you disagree with my understanding, then please tell me what it really was that Jesus was teaching with this passage.  Tell me why the Pharisees were silenced and could not even stand and defend their original statement that the Messiah would be the SON of David.

peace and love,
mike

[GeneBalthrop]

MIke…………So according to your logic, the was Eve a Human being , or how about Adam was He a Human being , so if you can except that as so why can't you accept Jesus as being a PURE HUMAN BEING ALSO. Where is all you try to force the text to imply, did Jesus even begin to say he was not of Human origins that he ever existed as any kind of Being before David His Farther who he clearly say he descended from. But again you try to force the text to meet you MYSTERY Magic teachings to show some kind of MORPHING Preexisting act has occurred in his berth. In order to separate Jesus from our Likeness, and indeed you shall be separated by your own choosing. IMO

peace and love……………………………………………………gene

[mikeboll64]

Hi Gene,

Were you drunk when you wrote that last post? Anyway, why don't you tell us all what Jesus was teaching the Pharisees in the passage I posted? Please.

mike

[gollamudi]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 24 2011,02:42)

Quote (gollamudi @ Jan. 13 2011,19:11) Good arguments brother Gene. Jewish Messiah was never meant other than human being born to human parents. Literal preexistence of Messiah is some thing unknown to Judaism and Hebrew Bible. Love and peace to you Adam Hi Adam, You are right.  The Jews thought the Messiah would be just like them – a “human being born to human parents”.  But were they found out to be mistaken about this?  Of course they were.  First of all, Jesus was NOT born of human parentS, was he? Secondly, what exactly do you think Jesus was teaching the Pharisees in the following passage? Matthew 22 NIV 41 While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them, 42 “What do you think about the Messiah? Whose son is he?”   “The son of David,” they replied. 43 He said to them, “How is it then that David, speaking by the Spirit, calls him ‘Lord’? For he says,   44 “‘The Lord said to my Lord:   “Sit at my right hand until I put your enemies   under your feet.”’   45 If then David calls him ‘Lord,’ how can he be his son?” 46 No one could say a word in reply, and from that day on no one dared to ask him any more questions. You can easily see that, like you pointed out, the Jews DID expect the Messiah to be a literal descendent of David – born in the usual way, and nothing more than a human born from TWO human parents.  But you can just as easily see that Jesus was teaching them something quite different from their understanding, right? Jesus was making a point to say that the Messiah was something MORE THAN a “normal” descendent of David.  He was making the point that had the Messiah been nothing more than a literal descendent of David, David would have never called him “my Lord” by Spirit. The Patriarch does not call any of his descendents “Lord” in Jewish culture.  The Patriarch is the “Lord” of his descendents, not the other way around.  And the Jews knew this, and were therefore rendered speechless by the teaching Jesus gave them. Adam and Gene, Jesus was clearly teaching people who thought the Messiah would be a regular human being who was brought forth from TWO regular human parents………that this was NOT the whole story. If you disagree with my understanding, then please tell me what it really was that Jesus was teaching with this passage.  Tell me why the Pharisees were silenced and could not even stand and defend their original statement that the Messiah would be the SON of David. peace and love, mike

Hi brother brother Mike
Thanks for your response on my post to brother Gene. Please avoid personal attacks. Coming to your arguments on Jesus being more than a human born to human parents: The writer of Matthew stated that Jesus was born to a virgin without human father which I negated in the thread “Virgin Birth”. OK leave it aside for time being now, the writer claimed Jesus was born like a human being through (virginal) conception and birth. He never says Jesus was some body and entered into womb of Mary and taken birth like what we believe in our Hinduism here in India for example Krishna.

Coming to the passage you quoted from Matt 22 which was already debated here many times in the same thread. The writer quotes this in reference to his usual claim of Jesus fulfilling O.T prophecies quoting this from Psalm 110. If you read this psalm no where it claims that the Jewish king and supposed Messiah would be more than a human. In fact it was written by David himself. Here it goes like this ;

Psalm 110 (Young's Literal Translation)

” 1A Psalm of David. The affirmation of Jehovah to my Lord: `Sit at My right hand, Till I make thine enemies thy footstool.'

2The rod of thy strength doth Jehovah send from Zion, Rule in the midst of thine enemies.

3Thy people [are] free-will gifts in the day of Thy strength, in the honours of holiness, From the womb, from the morning, Thou hast the dew of thy youth.

4Jehovah hath sworn, and doth not repent, `Thou [art] a priest to the age, According to the order of Melchizedek.'

5The Lord on thy right hand smote kings In the day of His anger.

6He doth judge among the nations, He hath completed the carcases, Hath smitten the head over the mighty earth.

7From a brook in the way he drinketh, Therefore he doth lift up the head! “

Do you think any where in this Psalm David talks about non-human Jewish King?

Jews believe that Messiah will be greater king than David. After all it is a Psalm written in a poetical way to adore Messiah the Jewish King before the Lord. There is nothing strange in this Psalm as you imagine here of Jesus preexistence as no-human. In fact the order of Melchizedek itself is human priestly office than non-human as Christianity imagines like the author of Hebrews. For this you may refer to appropriate thread in 'Scriptures & Biblical doctrines'.

If you claim Jesus as non-human as per Matt 22 you are making Jesus' birth as human null and void for claiming him as David's son. It disqualifies him to be Jewish Messiah. Paul in fact ascertains that Jesus' physical origins from David without mentioning any so called virgin birth in Rom 1:2-3. He only claims Jesus to be a son of God with reference to his resurrection than physical birth.

I hope you will appreciate these arguments.

Peace to you
Adam

[Author]

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