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Hi barley,
Thanks for your support! Imagine, you and I agreeing in a thread entitled “Pre-existence”!
peace and love,
mikeMike…………Don't let it go to your head he is not agreeing on Preexistence as far as i can tell.
peace and love…………………………………..gene
To All……………..The complete teaching of Jesus Preexistence is a fabricated LIE, derived from the false teaching of the Gnostic's first, then to the Trinitarians, and both of these false teachings provided the foundation for the false teachings of Preexistence of Jesus, they both remove Jesus from our exact likeness and distant Him from the HUMAN RACE. The both serve the exact same Goal which is to SEPARATE Jesus from Mankind. Anyone who denies that they don't separate Jesus from Mankind is simply a LIAR> IMO
peace and love to you all………………………………gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 20 2010,18:02) To All……………..The complete teaching of Jesus Preexistence is a fabricated LIE, derived from the false teaching of the Gnostic's first, then to the Trinitarians, and both of these false teachings provided the foundation for the false teachings of Preexistence of Jesus, they both remove Jesus from our exact likeness and distant Him from the HUMAN RACE. The both serve the exact same Goal which is to SEPARATE Jesus from Mankind. Anyone who denies that they don't separate Jesus from Mankind is simply a LIAR> IMO peace and love to you all………………………………gene
Hi Gene,Are you saying: “Preexistence” cannot (according to Gene) be gleaned “from Scripture alone”?
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 20 2010,18:02) To All……………..The complete teaching of Jesus Preexistence is a fabricated LIE, derived from the false teaching of the Gnostic's first, then to the Trinitarians, and both of these false teachings provided the foundation for the false teachings of Preexistence of Jesus, they both remove Jesus from our exact likeness and distant Him from the HUMAN RACE. The both serve the exact same Goal which is to SEPARATE Jesus from Mankind. Anyone who denies that they don't separate Jesus from Mankind is simply a LIAR> IMO peace and love to you all………………………………gene
To believe that Jesus did not come from Heaven to do the will of Him that send Him, goes against Scriptures.Jhn 6:38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether [they be] thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
He also is the firstborn from the death
Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all [things] he might have the preeminence.
Rev 3:14 ¶ And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;
Jhn 1:1 ¶ In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Jhn 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
Jhn 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
To show that “The Word of God is Jesus, these verses shows us
Rev 19:13 And he [was] clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
Rev 19:14 And the armies [which were] in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
Rev 19:16 And he hath on [his] vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
There is no other being that fits that description, is there Gene?
Show me if you know of one……Jhn 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
These are a lot of Scriptures that you will have to just ignore or interpret the way they are not written…
So you know what I believe is that Jesus did become a man and die for us, but first He emptied Himself
Phl 2:5 ¶ Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
Phl 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
Phl 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
Phl 2:8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
Gene in order to become this, He had to be in the form of God……A Spirit Being like the Angels are. However there is no clear Scripture that Jesus was an Angel like the JW believe. At least I don't know of one………..
Peace and Love Irene
Irene ………… There is NO CLEAR Scripture that say Jesus preexisted His Earthly existence other then in the Plan and Will of GOD. If there are Show me what his mane was and what work he did, CLEARLY not by conjectures you and others make. Where is your *TRUE* PROOFS. Don't give me scriptures that you and other can force the text to (IMPLY) but what in (FACT) it does not (SPECIFICALLY) say. Surely Irene such a big thing as this would have been spoken abut (CLEARLY) by (ALL) the Apostles right, Why does Peter say , “HE WAS FOREKNOWN (BUT) WAS MANIFESTED IN OUR TIME THEM, Why would he not say He (EXISTED BEFORE AND WAS MANIFESTED IN OUR TIME THEN) Why would he use such deceitful language if what you and all preexistences say is true? Being Foreknown is a far cry from being Preexistent because GOD foreknew Jeremiah, John the Baptist, Cyrus and many others, also even Us it is said he foreknew. Does that mean we all preexisted too them?. Irene trust me you have bought into the LIE taught by the False churches along with most all churches in the whole world. IMO
peace and love to you and Georg………………………………………………………..gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 21 2010,03:19) Irene ………… There is NO CLEAR Scripture that say Jesus preexisted His Earthly existence other then in the Plan and Will of GOD. If there are Show me what his mane was and what work he did, CLEARLY not by conjectures you and others make. Where is your *TRUE* PROOFS. Don't give me scriptures that you and other can force the text to (IMPLY) but what in (FACT) it does not (SPECIFICALLY) say. Surely Irene such a big thing as this would have been spoken abut (CLEARLY) by (ALL) the Apostles right, Why does Peter say , “HE WAS FOREKNOWN (BUT) WAS MANIFESTED IN OUR TIME THEM, Why would he not say He (EXISTED BEFORE AND WAS MANIFESTED IN OUR TIME THEN) Why would he use such deceitful language if what you and all preexistences say is true? Being Foreknown is a far cry from being Preexistent because GOD foreknew Jeremiah, John the Baptist, Cyrus and many others, also even Us it is said he foreknew. Does that mean we all preexisted too them?. Irene trust me you have bought into the LIE taught by the False churches along with most all churches in the whole world. IMO peace and love to you and Georg………………………………………………………..gene
Gene! tell me how do I force the text when it says that in John 6;38 Jesus came down from Heaven. Only this one. others will follow. I want you to explain what it means to you???
IreneHi Irene and Pierre,
We should all save our breath when it comes to Gene and the pre-existent topic. When someone will go as far as INSISTING that John 1:14 says “the Word CAME TO BE IN SOMEONE WHO WAS FLESH”, when that's not what God's inspired words actually say, we have passed into the territory of casting pearls before swine, IMO.
Irene, it apparently doesn't matter how many times we show him the scriptures. Gene has his deluded mind made up, and that's really all there is to it.
peace and love to you both,
mikeQuote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 21 2010,12:27) Hi Irene and Pierre, We should all save our breath when it comes to Gene and the pre-existent topic. When someone will go as far as INSISTING that John 1:14 says “the Word CAME TO BE IN SOMEONE WHO WAS FLESH”, when that's not what God's inspired words actually say, we have passed into the territory of casting pearls before swine, IMO.
Irene, it apparently doesn't matter how many times we show him the scriptures. Gene has his deluded mind made up, and that's really all there is to it.
peace and love to you both,
mike
Mike, I know your right, but I thought I would try it one more time. I hate to give up on a person, but you and Pierre are right. When your blind your blind.,….One more thing, Georg agrees with you on John 17:5.
Peace and love IreneQuote (Baker @ Dec. 21 2010,13:06) One more thing, Georg agrees with you on John 17:5.
Yeah, I saw where you posted that in the other thread. But that doesn't mean you're wrong either, Irene.I just ASSUMED that John went in order of events that happened. You have opened my eyes to other possibilities.
Either way, our bottom line was the same that Jesus is now a spirit in heaven where flesh and blood cannot enter.
peace and love,
mikeQuote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 21 2010,19:27) Hi Irene and Pierre, We should all save our breath when it comes to Gene and the pre-existent topic. When someone will go as far as INSISTING that John 1:14 says “the Word CAME TO BE IN SOMEONE WHO WAS FLESH”, when that's not what God's inspired words actually say, we have passed into the territory of casting pearls before swine, IMO.
Irene, it apparently doesn't matter how many times we show him the scriptures. Gene has his deluded mind made up, and that's really all there is to it.
peace and love to you both,
mike 
Quote (Baker @ Dec. 21 2010,05:44) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 21 2010,03:19) Irene ………… There is NO CLEAR Scripture that say Jesus preexisted His Earthly existence other then in the Plan and Will of GOD. If there are Show me what his mane was and what work he did, CLEARLY not by conjectures you and others make. Where is your *TRUE* PROOFS. Don't give me scriptures that you and other can force the text to (IMPLY) but what in (FACT) it does not (SPECIFICALLY) say. Surely Irene such a big thing as this would have been spoken abut (CLEARLY) by (ALL) the Apostles right, Why does Peter say , “HE WAS FOREKNOWN (BUT) WAS MANIFESTED IN OUR TIME THEM, Why would he not say He (EXISTED BEFORE AND WAS MANIFESTED IN OUR TIME THEN) Why would he use such deceitful language if what you and all preexistences say is true? Being Foreknown is a far cry from being Preexistent because GOD foreknew Jeremiah, John the Baptist, Cyrus and many others, also even Us it is said he foreknew. Does that mean we all preexisted too them?. Irene trust me you have bought into the LIE taught by the False churches along with most all churches in the whole world. IMO peace and love to you and Georg………………………………………………………..gene
Gene! tell me how do I force the text when it says that in John 6;38 Jesus came down from Heaven. Only this one. others will follow. I want you to explain what it means to you???
Irene
Irene…….This simply means GOD who is in heaven Sent Jesus, Just as he sent all his Prophets and Leaders, and Jeremiah, King Cyrus, John the baptist and a host of others. Or do you doubt they were sent from heaven also, This exclusivity of Jesus is what the Antichrist teaching does it makes Jesus different from the rest of mankind . Now ask you self do you truly think GOD would have a flesh and blood human being go through all that just so he could be said to not be like we are, what purpose would there be in that by GOD the Father or Jesus himself also?. Irene after Jesus was baptized in the Jordan and recieved the Holy Spirit of GOD and became a Son of GOD and God sent him out into the Word to preach the Gospel of the Kingdom of GOD to all the World, and backed him up with signs an wonders to near witness to what he was saying to ALL the World. The only thing that was preexistent about Jesus IS HE WAS (FOREORDAINED) In the plan and WILL of GOD before the Foundations of the world Just as were are also foreknown by GOD also.You or no preexistence here has produce ONE SCRIPTURE Showing (ANY) Work or pre-activity of Jesus, of any kind, by any Apostle or by Jesus himself.
Bottom line Irene you and your two friends have bought into the Biggest LIE ever TOLD concerning Jesus our Brother and soon coming King he is an was 100% of the Human race and He still has the body he was raised up from the grave with and will return with It , He is still a Son of Man, And is a Son of GOD in the same way those who have GOD Spirit (IN) them are.
You people are free to believe any way you want to and i and those who believe like me are free to believe as we chose to also. I am comfortably with what i believe and if you are then let it rest. IMO
peace and love to you and Georg……………………….gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 21 2010,15:39) Quote (Baker @ Dec. 21 2010,05:44) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 21 2010,03:19) Irene ………… There is NO CLEAR Scripture that say Jesus preexisted His Earthly existence other then in the Plan and Will of GOD. If there are Show me what his mane was and what work he did, CLEARLY not by conjectures you and others make. Where is your *TRUE* PROOFS. Don't give me scriptures that you and other can force the text to (IMPLY) but what in (FACT) it does not (SPECIFICALLY) say. Surely Irene such a big thing as this would have been spoken abut (CLEARLY) by (ALL) the Apostles right, Why does Peter say , “HE WAS FOREKNOWN (BUT) WAS MANIFESTED IN OUR TIME THEM, Why would he not say He (EXISTED BEFORE AND WAS MANIFESTED IN OUR TIME THEN) Why would he use such deceitful language if what you and all preexistences say is true? Being Foreknown is a far cry from being Preexistent because GOD foreknew Jeremiah, John the Baptist, Cyrus and many others, also even Us it is said he foreknew. Does that mean we all preexisted too them?. Irene trust me you have bought into the LIE taught by the False churches along with most all churches in the whole world. IMO peace and love to you and Georg………………………………………………………..gene
Gene! tell me how do I force the text when it says that in John 6;38 Jesus came down from Heaven. Only this one. others will follow. I want you to explain what it means to you???
Irene
Irene…….This simply means GOD who is in heaven Sent Jesus, Just as he sent all his Prophets and Leaders, and Jeremiah, King Cyrus, John the baptist and a host of others. Or do you doubt they were sent from heaven also, This exclusivity of Jesus is what the Antichrist teaching does it makes Jesus different from the rest of mankind . Now ask you self do you truly think GOD would have a flesh and blood human being go through all that just so he could be said to not be like we are, what purpose would there be in that by GOD the Father or Jesus himself also?. Irene after Jesus was baptized in the Jordan and recieved the Holy Spirit of GOD and became a Son of GOD and God sent him out into the Word to preach the Gospel of the Kingdom of GOD to all the World, and backed him up with signs an wonders to near witness to what he was saying to ALL the World. The only thing that was preexistent about Jesus IS HE WAS (FOREORDAINED) In the plan and WILL of GOD before the Foundations of the world Just as were are also foreknown by GOD also.You or no preexistence here has produce ONE SCRIPTURE Showing (ANY) Work or pre-activity of Jesus, of any kind, by any Apostle or by Jesus himself.
Bottom line Irene you and your two friends have bought into the Biggest LIE ever TOLD concerning Jesus our Brother and soon coming King he is an was 100% of the Human race and He still has the body he was raised up from the grave with and will return with It , He is still a Son of Man, And is a Son of GOD in the same way those who have GOD Spirit (IN) them are.
You people are free to believe any way you want to and i and those who believe like me are free to believe as we chose to also. I am comfortably with what i believe and if you are then let it rest. IMO
peace and love to you and Georg……………………….gene
no, Gene that is not what it says. you are accusing me of forcing the text, while you are doing it. He came down from Heaven. To come down from Heaven , He had to be there. just if I say, I came down from upstairs of my House…..Also Jesus is the literal Son of God, so He never was just like us. We are the adopted Son's of God. The Anti-Christ teaching is that Jesus never came in the flesh, that is not so. He did come in the flesh after He emptied Himself Scripture says so.Phl 2:5 ¶ Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
Phl 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
Phl 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
These verses teaches that Jesus was in the form of God, then emptied himself of that and became a man…..In order to be made into the likeness of men, He had to be something else…..I guess you don't see that either….Well Gene, that's it. I should have remembered what your believes are. Some just can't see it….So sad….. open your mind and ask God for His wisdom, and don't accuse others of being in the spirit of Anti-Christ. It has no place here.,….
Peace and Love IreneIrene…………………The spirit (intellect) of Antichrist is the Spirit the Separates Jesus from our (exact) identity, rather you see it or not , does not change what it is. It was to deny Jesus was a completely flesh existing Being , born into existence just as we are, a Seed of the women promised by GOD that would come, be born from her, in the proper time . Now where did GOD ever say that he was already in existences and would be Morphed into a Women, as you trinitarians and Preexistences think. Many scriptures show his origins were through King David and He himself calls himself the root and offspring of David, Moses even said God would raise up a Prophet like Him notice he did not say a (preexisting being) God would raise up to them , but a prophet like Moses was. Irene you have bought hook line and sinker the false teaching of the Gnostic's and Trinitarians about the preexistences of Jesus , rather you understand that or not it none the less is the truth. IMO
peace and love to you and Georg………………………………gene
Gene!
2Jo 1:7 ¶ For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
This is what is the spirit of Anti-Christ and has nothing to do with the preexisting of Jesus….Also noticed ” come into thje world. Where did Jesus come from. It does not say born into the world…..
I BELIEVE THAT JESUS CAME IN THE FLESH,…AMEN.Irene
Irene………..You do not believe Jesus came into existence as a Human being , you believe he was a there as a disguised Past existing being just as the Gnostic's did, the only difference is that you think he was “Morphed” into a human being from a past existence, While they believed he just appeared as a Human being but was really not , but the (BOTTOM LINE) remains the same you both are separatists and both separate Jesus' identity from our identity. No difference at all really, and for this cause i say you both Trinitarians and Preexistences are Antichrists. NO not I but the Apostle John does. IMO
peace and love to you and Georg……………………………………..gene
Mike……….Isn't my above post the way you see it also, as well as all trinitarians too. Don't you all believe Jesus represented something different then humanity don't you all SEPARATE JESUS from our Identity as a fellow Human being . Don't you all praise Jesus as something different then us humans, Don't you all believe Jesus succeeded because he was not a man really,but a morphed being of some kind, isn't it even hard for you to even say he was actually a true brother of yours. Trust me when i say your teachings are the very teaching of the Antichrists rather you understand that or not, none the less it is the truth. IMO
peace and love……………………………………….gene
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