Preexistence

[GeneBalthrop]

EDJ……….. I was not talking about a (POSITION) as Being a KING does not make Jesus Different from Mankind no more then a plumber is a different then a Electrician as far as being a human being., all are Identical when speaking of MEN and so is Jesus. That was my Point , Trinitarians and preexistences move Jesus away from (MANKIND) that was the point i was making , was not talking about his position as a MAN. They separate Him from Mankind itself. This is the Spirit of Antichrist spoken of by John. They make him a GOD or a Morphed being or something, in effect saying he was not even a real man. IMO

peace and love……………………………………….gene

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 08 2010,18:51)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 09 2010,06:38) GM One flesh is not figurative. The physical joining of two become one flesh. Paul calls it a Mystery. Though our minds cannot comprehend how man and woman can be “one flesh” yet be two persons, nevertheless it is so. Hi All, I think this explains the mystery fairly well: 1 Corinthians 6:16 NIV Do you not know that he who unites himself with a prostitute is one with her in body? For it is said, “The two will become one flesh.” IMO, that is all that God meant by the “one flesh” thing.  He meant the man and woman would be conjoined during intercourse as one flesh.  At least I think that's how Paul understood it from the above scripture – and it makes much more sense than one being consisting of more than one person. peace and love, mike

Mike

So you think you know more than Paul also?

The joining of the two through intercourse is not the Mystery.

The mystery is they become “One Flesh”.

WJ

[terraricca]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 10 2010,13:50)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 08 2010,18:51) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 09 2010,06:38) GM One flesh is not figurative. The physical joining of two become one flesh. Paul calls it a Mystery. Though our minds cannot comprehend how man and woman can be “one flesh” yet be two persons, nevertheless it is so. Hi All, I think this explains the mystery fairly well: 1 Corinthians 6:16 NIV Do you not know that he who unites himself with a prostitute is one with her in body? For it is said, “The two will become one flesh.” IMO, that is all that God meant by the “one flesh” thing.  He meant the man and woman would be conjoined during intercourse as one flesh.  At least I think that's how Paul understood it from the above scripture – and it makes much more sense than one being consisting of more than one person. peace and love, mike Mike So you think you know more than Paul also? The joining of the two through intercourse is not the Mystery. The mystery is they become “One Flesh”. WJ

WJ

you wrong the mystery is the Church of Christ being the head and the 144k the body,and there unity with Christ and so become one in spirit.

this was the mystery that as been revealed to Paul.

Pierre

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 08 2010,19:06)

No scripture say JESUS WAS THE SPIRITUAL ROCK THAT FOLLOWED ANYONE IN THE WILDERNESS. WJ has no idea what the Anointing ON JESUS the MAN is or WAS.

Gene

So then you call Paul a liar?

Paul says “Christ” was the Spiritual Rock that followed them.

Paul says Jesus is The Christ” Gene. Not the “anointing” or “Holy Spirit”. Look again at how many time Paul calls Jesus “Christ”….

[mikeboll64]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 10 2010,06:50)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 08 2010,18:51) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 09 2010,06:38) GM One flesh is not figurative. The physical joining of two become one flesh. Paul calls it a Mystery. Though our minds cannot comprehend how man and woman can be “one flesh” yet be two persons, nevertheless it is so. Hi All, I think this explains the mystery fairly well: 1 Corinthians 6:16 NIV Do you not know that he who unites himself with a prostitute is one with her in body? For it is said, “The two will become one flesh.” IMO, that is all that God meant by the “one flesh” thing.  He meant the man and woman would be conjoined during intercourse as one flesh.  At least I think that's how Paul understood it from the above scripture – and it makes much more sense than one being consisting of more than one person. peace and love, mike Mike So you think you know more than Paul also? The joining of the two through intercourse is not the Mystery. The mystery is they become “One Flesh”. WJ

What are you talking about Keith?  I'm not saying anything against Paul's words, but learning from them.

Why do YOU think he says “being with” a prostitute makes you “one with her in body”, and then immediately reminds us of the “one flesh” scripture?

mike

[GeneBalthrop]

WJ………..It is not me calling Jesus or Paul a liar, Show us one scripture where Jesus ever said He was the Rock of anything , much less the ANOINTING following the Childern of Israel in the Wilderness. Common sens should tell you that if Jesus was himself the anointing why does scripture say he was Anointed by GOD to preach the Gospel. And why does it say he was anointed with the Oil of Gladness above his fellows as i recall it say. The very word Messiah means anointed one, This is what the Isrealites were looking for the Anointed ONE, The Messiah. WJ can't you see how that trinitarian garbage has screwed up you understanding brother. IMO

peace and love to you and yours…………………………gene

[mikeboll64]

Gene, Peter means “rock”. This is the name JESUS gave to Simon. So God is NOT the only one in scripture called “Rock”, is He?

mike

[GeneBalthrop]

Mike………….do i need to produce all the many scripture that say GOD (ONLY) the The ROCK, of OUR Salvation . many can have a name of a rock , Just like there are thousand with the name of Jesus existing today, So how does the mean that they are the real Jesus then, you logic is completely gone man. Jesus said to Peter, “WHO DO YOU SAY I AM , PETER RESPONDED THOU ART THE CHRIST (the anointed one) THE SON OF THE LIVING GOD, JESUS RESPONDED BLESSED ARE YOU SIMON BARJONA , BECAUSE FLESH AND BLOOD DID NOT TELL YOU THIS , BUT MY FATHER WHO IS (IN) HEAVE HAS REVEALED IT UNTO YOU, AND I SAY TO YOU YOUR ARE PETER AND UPON (THIS ROCK) i shall build the church and the gates of hell will not prevail against it. Mike that ROCK was GOD the FATHER Who can get inside of our Minds and (REVEAL) THE TRUTH NO ONE ELSE CAN DO THAT NOT EVEN JESUS.

Deu 32:4…… He is the ROCK, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgement: a GOD of Truth and without Iniquity, Just and right is He.

Deu 32: 15…. But jeshurun waxed fat , and kicked: thou art waxen fat, thou are grown thick, thou art covered with fatness: then he forsook GOD which made him, and lightely esteemed the ROCK of His salvation.

Due 32: 18…> Of the ROCK, that begot thee thou art unmindful and have forgotten GOD that Formed you.

1 SA…..> There s none holy as the LORD: for there is none besides thee: Neither is ther any ROCK like our GOD.

2 Sa………> For who is GOD, save the LORD? and who is a “ROCK”, save our GOD?

2 Sa…….> The God of Israel said, The ROCK of Israel spoke to me, He that rules over men must be just, ruling in the fear of GOD.

This is the Christos anointing ROCK following the childern in the wilderness, it was GOD himself.

Psa 18:31…..> For who is GOD save the LORD? or who is a “ROCK” save Our GOD.

Psa 18:46……. The LORD lives; and blessed be my “ROCK”; and let the GOD of MY Salvation be exalted>

I could have posted many more, but what the use?, So mike you can trust in any ROCK you want to I will trust the the ONLY (TRUE) ROCK like MY Brother JESUS DID and that WAS GOD the FATHER. IMO

peace and love………………………….gene

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 09 2010,17:47)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 10 2010,06:50) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 08 2010,18:51) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 09 2010,06:38) GM One flesh is not figurative. The physical joining of two become one flesh. Paul calls it a Mystery. Though our minds cannot comprehend how man and woman can be “one flesh” yet be two persons, nevertheless it is so. Hi All, I think this explains the mystery fairly well: 1 Corinthians 6:16 NIV Do you not know that he who unites himself with a prostitute is one with her in body? For it is said, “The two will become one flesh.” IMO, that is all that God meant by the “one flesh” thing.  He meant the man and woman would be conjoined during intercourse as one flesh.  At least I think that's how Paul understood it from the above scripture – and it makes much more sense than one being consisting of more than one person. peace and love, mike Mike So you think you know more than Paul also? The joining of the two through intercourse is not the Mystery. The mystery is they become “One Flesh”. WJ What are you talking about Keith?  I'm not saying anything against Paul's words, but learning from them. Why do YOU think he says “being with” a prostitute makes you “one with her in body”, and then immediately reminds us of the “one flesh” scripture? mike

Mike

What I am saying is “Two becoming one flesh” is still a mystery. Though we may not understand how two are one flesh does not mean it is not literally so in Gods eyes.

My response is to your jab about One being consisting of two persons.

Well how about “One Spirit” being three persons?

The three are “One”.

There is only “One Spirit” Mike, and that Spirit is the “Spirit of God”, the “Spirit of Christ” and the “Comforter” and these three are one.

Though it is a mystery how this can be nevertheless the scriptures teach there are three that are one.

WJ

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 09 2010,21:02)

WJ………..It is not me calling Jesus or Paul a liar, Show us one scripture where Jesus ever said He was the Rock of anything ,…

Gene

Paul said Jesus was the Christ that followed them in the wilderness and Paul claimed that he received his revelation from Jesus.

Paul also said…

Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone; As it is written, Behold, “I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence“: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. Rom 9:32, 33

So who is this “Rock of offence” but Jesus?

Peter  himself also calls Jesus the “Rock”….

Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner, And “a stone of stumbling, and “a rock of offence“, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed. 1 Peter 2:7, 8

Now compare Paul and Peters quote with this…

Sanctify the LORD (YHWH) of hosts himself; and let him be your fear, and let him be your dread. And he shall be for a sanctuary; but for “a stone of stumbling and for a rock of offence to both the houses of Israel“, for a gin and for a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem. Isa 8:13, 14.

It appears they are claiming Jesus is YHWH, eh?

To him that has ears to hear let him hear what the Spirit says!

Is Jesus your “Savoir” Gene…?

According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. “For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ“. 1 Cor 3:10, 11

Is Jesus the “Foundation of your salvation” Gene…? Is he the “Rock of your salvation”…?

WJ

[Baker]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 11 2010,01:19)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 09 2010,17:47) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 10 2010,06:50) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 08 2010,18:51) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 09 2010,06:38) GM One flesh is not figurative. The physical joining of two become one flesh. Paul calls it a Mystery. Though our minds cannot comprehend how man and woman can be “one flesh” yet be two persons, nevertheless it is so. Hi All, I think this explains the mystery fairly well: 1 Corinthians 6:16 NIV Do you not know that he who unites himself with a prostitute is one with her in body? For it is said, “The two will become one flesh.” IMO, that is all that God meant by the “one flesh” thing.  He meant the man and woman would be conjoined during intercourse as one flesh.  At least I think that's how Paul understood it from the above scripture – and it makes much more sense than one being consisting of more than one person. peace and love, mike Mike So you think you know more than Paul also? The joining of the two through intercourse is not the Mystery. The mystery is they become “One Flesh”. WJ What are you talking about Keith?  I'm not saying anything against Paul's words, but learning from them. Why do YOU think he says “being with” a prostitute makes you “one with her in body”, and then immediately reminds us of the “one flesh” scripture? mike Mike What I am saying is “Two becoming one flesh” is still a mystery. Though we may not understand how two are one flesh does not mean it is not literally so in Gods eyes. My response is to your jab about One being consisting of two persons. Well how about “One Spirit” being three persons? The three are “One”. There is only “One Spirit” Mike, and that Spirit is the “Spirit of God”, the “Spirit of Christ” and the “Comforter” and these three are one. Though it is a mystery how this can be nevertheless the scriptures teach there are three that are one. WJ

WJ I was just reading what you said here. I taught our four Children the trinity doctrine and all three are persons in the trinity. Three persons in one. Yet you say that the Spirit is God's Holy Spirit which is correct, but that is not a trinity…..not according to the Catholic Church where we came out of…now 25 years ago…..
Peace and Love Irene

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Baker @ Dec. 10 2010,12:47)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 11 2010,01:19) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 09 2010,17:47) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 10 2010,06:50) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 08 2010,18:51) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 09 2010,06:38) GM One flesh is not figurative. The physical joining of two become one flesh. Paul calls it a Mystery. Though our minds cannot comprehend how man and woman can be “one flesh” yet be two persons, nevertheless it is so. Hi All, I think this explains the mystery fairly well: 1 Corinthians 6:16 NIV Do you not know that he who unites himself with a prostitute is one with her in body? For it is said, “The two will become one flesh.” IMO, that is all that God meant by the “one flesh” thing.  He meant the man and woman would be conjoined during intercourse as one flesh.  At least I think that's how Paul understood it from the above scripture – and it makes much more sense than one being consisting of more than one person. peace and love, mike Mike So you think you know more than Paul also? The joining of the two through intercourse is not the Mystery. The mystery is they become “One Flesh”. WJ What are you talking about Keith?  I'm not saying anything against Paul's words, but learning from them. Why do YOU think he says “being with” a prostitute makes you “one with her in body”, and then immediately reminds us of the “one flesh” scripture? mike Mike What I am saying is “Two becoming one flesh” is still a mystery. Though we may not understand how two are one flesh does not mean it is not literally so in Gods eyes. My response is to your jab about One being consisting of two persons. Well how about “One Spirit” being three persons? The three are “One”. There is only “One Spirit” Mike, and that Spirit is the “Spirit of God”, the “Spirit of Christ” and the “Comforter” and these three are one. Though it is a mystery how this can be nevertheless the scriptures teach there are three that are one. WJ WJ I was just reading what you said here. I taught our four Children the trinity doctrine and all three are persons in the trinity. Three persons in one.  Yet you say that the Spirit is God's Holy Spirit which is correct, but that is not a trinity…..not according to the Catholic Church where we came out of…now 25 years ago….. Peace and Love Irene

Irene

Matthew 28:19 is a Trinity. You don't have to believe it.

WJ

[Baker]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 11 2010,04:51)

Quote (Baker @ Dec. 10 2010,12:47) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 11 2010,01:19) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 09 2010,17:47) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 10 2010,06:50) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 08 2010,18:51) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 09 2010,06:38) GM One flesh is not figurative. The physical joining of two become one flesh. Paul calls it a Mystery. Though our minds cannot comprehend how man and woman can be “one flesh” yet be two persons, nevertheless it is so. Hi All, I think this explains the mystery fairly well: 1 Corinthians 6:16 NIV Do you not know that he who unites himself with a prostitute is one with her in body? For it is said, “The two will become one flesh.” IMO, that is all that God meant by the “one flesh” thing.  He meant the man and woman would be conjoined during intercourse as one flesh.  At least I think that's how Paul understood it from the above scripture – and it makes much more sense than one being consisting of more than one person. peace and love, mike Mike So you think you know more than Paul also? The joining of the two through intercourse is not the Mystery. The mystery is they become “One Flesh”. WJ What are you talking about Keith?  I'm not saying anything against Paul's words, but learning from them. Why do YOU think he says “being with” a prostitute makes you “one with her in body”, and then immediately reminds us of the “one flesh” scripture? mike Mike What I am saying is “Two becoming one flesh” is still a mystery. Though we may not understand how two are one flesh does not mean it is not literally so in Gods eyes. My response is to your jab about One being consisting of two persons. Well how about “One Spirit” being three persons? The three are “One”. There is only “One Spirit” Mike, and that Spirit is the “Spirit of God”, the “Spirit of Christ” and the “Comforter” and these three are one. Though it is a mystery how this can be nevertheless the scriptures teach there are three that are one. WJ WJ I was just reading what you said here. I taught our four Children the trinity doctrine and all three are persons in the trinity. Three persons in one.  Yet you say that the Spirit is God's Holy Spirit which is correct, but that is not a trinity…..not according to the Catholic Church where we came out of…now 25 years ago….. Peace and Love Irene Irene Matthew 28:19 is a Trinity. You don't have to believe it. WJ

WJ One Scripture against how many other that say that there is none other beside Almighty God?? Irene

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Baker @ Dec. 10 2010,15:56)

WJ One Scripture against how many other that say that there is none other beside Almighty God?? Irene

Irene

What does that mean? Isn't one scripture as good as another? Is Matt 28:19 scripture?  If you say no, Prove it.

Just because you do not believe it does not make it so.

WJ

[mikeboll64]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 11 2010,01:19)

There is only “One Spirit” Mike, and that Spirit is the “Spirit of God”, the “Spirit of Christ” and the “Comforter” and these three are one.

You must be forgetting the 7 spirits of God, Keith.

mike

[mikeboll64]

Hi All,

This is a thread about the pre-existence of Jesus, not the trinity.

Let's all (including me) try to stay on topic.

peace and love,
mike

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 10 2010,16:33)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 11 2010,01:19) There is only “One Spirit” Mike, and that Spirit is the “Spirit of God”, the “Spirit of Christ” and the “Comforter” and these three are one. You must be forgetting the 7 spirits of God, Keith. mike

Mike
Nice try!

The seven spirits are seven messengers!

WJ

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 10 2010,16:38)

Hi All, This is a thread about the pre-existence of Jesus, not the trinity. Let's all (including me) try to stay on topic. peace and love, mike

Mike

Haven't you figured out that I cannot post without someone bringing up the Trinity. Even if my post has nothing to do with the Trinity! Somehow people must think that accusing me of being a Trinitarian adds validity to their post. Its quite humurous actually!

WJ

[Ed J]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 11 2010,08:43)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 10 2010,16:38) Hi All, This is a thread about the pre-existence of Jesus, not the trinity. Let's all (including me) try to stay on topic. peace and love, mike Mike Haven't you figured out that I cannot post without someone bringing up the Trinity. Even if my post has nothing to do with the Trinity! Somehow people must think that accusing me of being a Trinitarian adds validity to their post. Its quite humurous actually! WJ

Hi WJ,

You are right my friend!
People will often attack another
to try to ‘add some validity’ to their view!

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[mikeboll64]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 11 2010,08:43)

Mike Haven't you figured out that I cannot post without someone bringing up the Trinity. Even if my post has nothing to do with the Trinity! Somehow people must think that accusing me of being a Trinitarian adds validity to their post. Its quite humurous actually! WJ

I took the blame for starting the trinity discussion here. But you can see it was really YOU!

Quote (Keith @ 1)

Now you want to tell us Paul is calling the Spirit of God the “Christ” in 1 Cor 10:9? This is one of the strongest passages in the Bible for the “Deity” of Jesus the Christ and also for his pre-existence, so close your eyes and stick your head in the sand if you want. The problem you have is this is one of those Trinitarian scriptures that cannot be refuted.

That's the post I said “Slow your roll” to Keith. So it was YOU, and you were just going to let me take the blame?

Bad Trinitarian!

So you say the 7 spirits of God are “messengers” of God? You mean just like Jesus was and is a messenger of his God?

mike

[Author]

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