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Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 03 2010,11:36) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 03 2010,01:10) Mike…………Ther is a lot of places where CHRIST Should be translated as The Anointing SPIRIT of GOD
Hi Gene,I'm not doubting you, but I asked for scriptures. Can you give any that are CLEARLY not about Jesus Christ?
mike
Mike …………I have but do you believe it?1 Co 10:4 …> And did (ALL) drink of the same Spiritual drink: because they drank of that Spiritual (ROCK) that followed them : and the ROCK was CHRIST (the Anointing SPIRIT). Notice it does not say JESUS But CHRIST or the ANOINTING. All of GOD leaders had this Anointing on them Moses , Joshua< the seventy elders the Judges of Israel, Kind David AND all RECEIVED OF THIS ANOINTING AND SO WAS THE MAN JESUS.
If you would read many of Paul's writing with this in mind it can clarify much. When it say if Christ be in you that is not meaning the man Jesus, but the anointing of the SPIRIT He had on him being in you also. WE all can only tie with GOD the Father and Jesus and each other in the household of God by the Spirit of GOD It is the SEED of GOD in all who Have it in them. IMO
peace and love……………………………gene
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 03 2010,11:32) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 02 2010,15:31) Mike…………So who is this ROOT of Jesse spoke of by Isiah then? You failed to answere that Surely Jesus according to you must have been before Jesse also right? peace and love………………………………….gene
I guess I didn't think it was an actual question Gene. Of course Jesus is the Root and Branch of Jesse and the Root, Branch and Offspring of David.mike
Mike………..As i have said before you can't corner a snake in a brier patch . Fact is Isiah was saying Jesus would be from the roots of Jesse not that Jesse was the root of Jesus, common sense should tell you that Mike. But you are so used to twisting the text up you even do that with this simple straight forward text i quotes from Isiah. Listen Jesus is the ROOT (OF) or (FROM) Jesse being mention there no matter how you try to cut it. This is why we never get anywhere here you simply will not accept straight forward scriptures. IMO .peace and love…………………………………gene
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 02 2010,19:36) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 03 2010,01:10) Mike…………Ther is a lot of places where CHRIST Should be translated as The Anointing SPIRIT of GOD
Hi Gene,I'm not doubting you, but I asked for scriptures. Can you give any that are CLEARLY not about Jesus Christ?
mike
Nope!Because there aren't any!
I have explained this to Gene before. “Christ” does not mean “anointing or the Spirit” but means “anointed”. Jesus is the Christ or (anointed one)!
WJ
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 03 2010,12:19) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 03 2010,11:36) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 03 2010,01:10) Mike…………Ther is a lot of places where CHRIST Should be translated as The Anointing SPIRIT of GOD
Hi Gene,I'm not doubting you, but I asked for scriptures. Can you give any that are CLEARLY not about Jesus Christ?
mike
Mike …………I have but do you believe it?1 Co 10:4 …> And did (ALL) drink of the same Spiritual drink: because they drank of that Spiritual (ROCK) that followed them : and the ROCK was CHRIST (the Anointing SPIRIT). Notice it does not say JESUS But CHRIST or the ANOINTING. All of GOD leaders had this Anointing on them Moses , Joshua< the seventy elders the Judges of Israel, Kind David AND all RECEIVED OF THIS ANOINTING AND SO WAS THE MAN JESUS.
If you would read many of Paul's writing with this in mind it can clarify much. When it say if Christ be in you that is not meaning the man Jesus, but the anointing of the SPIRIT He had on him being in you also. WE all can only tie with GOD the Father and Jesus and each other in the household of God by the Spirit of GOD It is the SEED of GOD in all who Have it in them. IMO
peace and love……………………………gene
GeneWhy do you quote the scripture out of context? Read further and you will see…
“Neither let us tempt Christ“, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents. 1 Cor 10:9
Read further and you will see…
The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not “the communion of the blood of Christ” (does the anointing spirit have blood)?” The bread which we break, is it not the communion of “the body of Christ? (Is the “Body” the body of the anointing spirit?) 1 Cor 10:16
Who is the Christ Paul is speaking of? HaHa for the unbelievers, it is YHWH who is Jesus in the flesh!
The subject in chapter 10 is Jesus just read the chapter and you can see it is Jesus that Paul is speaking of.
Every place in the Bible (569 times) where the word “Christ” is used it is refering to Jesus yet you want us to think that Paul is saying 1 Cor 10:9 is not about Jesus?
Nah, that is truly what you call “Eisegesis”.
This is why Jesus said “before Abraham was, I am” because he was there with the children of Israel in the wilderness…
For certain men whose condemnation was written about* long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are godless men, who change the grace of our God into a license for immorality “and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord“. Though you already know all this, I want to remind you “that the Lord delivered his people out of Egypt, but later destroyed those who did not believe. Jude 1:4, 5
He said “if you do not believe I am he, then you will die in your sins”.
And this same Jesus will destroy the current unbelievers at the brightness of his appearing if they do not repent and confess by the Holy Spirit that Jesus is Lord (YHWH) 1 Cor 12:3
WJ
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 04 2010,04:01) Here is an example , Jesus said “it is harder for a “Camel” to go through the eye of a needle that for a rich man to enter the kingdom of GOD” , Nearly all Greek texts translates it that way, but if you go to an Aramaic text (which was the language spoken in that day) it cone out this way , ” it is easer for a “ROPE” to go through the eye of a needle than fro a rich man to go into the kingdom of GOD”. Now which makes the most common sense (the rope) does. Get my point.
Hi Gene,That makes good sense……..ROPE. Where did you find this info, and how do you KNOW it's “rope” and not “camel”?
This is what NETNotes says about the camel:
A few late witnesses (579 1424 pc) read κάμιλον (kamilon, “rope”) for κάμηλον (kamhlon, “camel”), either through accidental misreading of the text or intentionally so as to soften Jesus’ words.
Sounds to me like the older and more trustworthy mss have “camel”, not “rope”………at least according to that statement.
peace and love,
mikeQuote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 04 2010,04:19) Mike …………I have but do you believe it? 1 Co 10:4 …> And did (ALL) drink of the same Spiritual drink: because they drank of that Spiritual (ROCK) that followed them : and the ROCK was CHRIST (the Anointing SPIRIT). Notice it does not say JESUS But CHRIST or the ANOINTING. All of GOD leaders had this Anointing on them Moses , Joshua< the seventy elders the Judges of Israel, Kind David AND all RECEIVED OF THIS ANOINTING AND SO WAS THE MAN JESUS.
Hi Gene,1 Cor 10 NIV
1 For I do not want you to be ignorant of the fact, brothers and sisters, that our ancestors were all under the cloud and that they all passed through the sea. 2 They were all baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea. 3 They all ate the same spiritual food 4 and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ.Gene, there are 4 times that Paul says “ALL” above. Was every single Israelite involved in the Exodus anointed with God's Holy Spirit? This scripture is talking about ALL who walked through the Sea of Reeds. ALL who ate the manna. ALL who were “baptized into Moses”.
Yet you only mention Moses, Joshua and the 70 elders. Something is not adding up here.
peace and love,
mikeMike…………Why would Jesus even relate a Camel to the eye of a needle it makes no senser at all, Because everyone would know that was an impossible act, it would not be Harder it would impossible to. But if it were a rope as the Aramaic say them it could be thought as possible, that is why Jesus said it was (HARDER), (not impossible) to do that, then for a ROPE to go through the eye of a Needle.
Mike if you were truly going by the older text you would go by the ARAMAIC text it is much older. And not to mention it was the language Jesus and the Apostles were speaking in. Again your NetNotes is misleading you. As it is with many other things Like the word used for THROUGH. Translated over 50 other way in scripture. As i told you before NetNotes is nothing but a pure trinitarian site. I would be very cautious of anything they said if i were you.
peace and love…………………………………………..gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 04 2010,14:54) Mike…………Why would Jesus even relate a Camel to the eye of a needle it makes no senser at all, Because everyone would know that was an impossible act, it would not be Harder it would impossible to. But if it were a rope as the Aramaic say them it could be thought as possible, that is why Jesus said it was (HARDER), (not impossible) to do that, then for a ROPE to go through the eye of a Needle.
That was the whole point Gene.25 When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, “Who then can be saved?”
26 Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”
Since “rope” could actually be possible for men, it does not fit into the rest of the teaching Gene. The disciples wouldn't have been “astonished”, and Jesus wouldn't have said “impossible”, but “harder” like you say.
And as far as I know, Matthew MIGHT have been originally written in Hebrew, not Aramaic (although the two languages are similar). But the rest of the NT was originally written in Greek, so how do you say the Aramaic is “older”?
peace and love,
mikeWJ …………..Good to hear from you again , i see you have not changed a bit though, Let me just reply on one thing you mentioned . “Nether let us temp Christ, as some of them did and were destroyed by serpents” > You seem to think that can't mean The Spirit of GOD or Which (IS) the Anointing Spirit that was (IN) Jesus. And think to assume that is taking it out of context right, Well that is exactly what you are doing by assuming that means Jesus (Who by the way is not even mentioned there). Jesus (THE CHRIST) MEANS JESUS (THE ANOINTED), OF GOD IN CASE NO ONE EVER TOLD YOU THAT WJ. To help you WJ look up the WORD (Christos) for a starter brother. If you cant understand that look up THE MESSIAH. Christ is not Jesus it is Jesus who is the Anoint or Christ because he had been anointed with the SPIRIT of GOD. God's SPIRIT is the CHRISTOS which was on Jesus and on all of GOD leaders in the old testament it was what was following them in the wilderness working through Moses and the seventy elders and Joshua and many others and even the anointed angles . WJ interesting it is alway out of context if it doesn't meet you trinitarian belief system right? Kind of like Mikes Preexistence beliefs you two have more in common then you think. IMO
Peace and love to you and yours WJ……………………………………….gene
Mike…………..Jesus would not have used something completely unrelated to show his point But would have used some thing at least related to a thread as a rope would have been even thought it would have been impossible to put it through the eye of a needle. A camel has no relationship to a thread of a needle as a rope does. Again simple logic should have told you that , but i think you just like to argue and can not (accept) anything contrary to you thinking it appears. IMO
peace and love…………………………………………gene
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 04 2010,14:47) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 04 2010,04:19) Mike …………I have but do you believe it? 1 Co 10:4 …> And did (ALL) drink of the same Spiritual drink: because they drank of that Spiritual (ROCK) that followed them : and the ROCK was CHRIST (the Anointing SPIRIT). Notice it does not say JESUS But CHRIST or the ANOINTING. All of GOD leaders had this Anointing on them Moses , Joshua< the seventy elders the Judges of Israel, Kind David AND all RECEIVED OF THIS ANOINTING AND SO WAS THE MAN JESUS.
Hi Gene,1 Cor 10 NIV
1 For I do not want you to be ignorant of the fact, brothers and sisters, that our ancestors were all under the cloud and that they all passed through the sea. 2 They were all baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea. 3 They all ate the same spiritual food 4 and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ.Gene, there are 4 times that Paul says “ALL” above. Was every single Israelite involved in the Exodus anointed with God's Holy Spirit? This scripture is talking about ALL who walked through the Sea of Reeds. ALL who ate the manna. ALL who were “baptized into Moses”.
Yet you only mention Moses, Joshua and the 70 elders. Something is not adding up here.
peace and love,
mike
Mike…………Your moving into another subject here, i was saying that the Christ mentioned there is not talking about Jesus , now you have moved it into a completely different subject for us to consider before you have even answered the question of was that Jesus he was talking about or the Anointing SPIRIT of GOD. And they all drank from the Spiritual Rock because they Drank from the Spiritual Rock that was ON Moses, Moses was doing GOD Work so naturally they were drinking from that Spirit that was on Moses, GOD was working through him by that Anointing on him.. But that is a complete different subject stick with the one we are discussing quite trying to divert it.Your are slick i will give you that, you really do know how to skirt and twist subject matter. One of the best at it i think i have ever seen. Lets try to stay on subject not drift so much OK.
peace and love………………………………..gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 04 2010,15:21) Mike…………..Jesus would not have used something completely unrelated to show his point But would have used some thing at least related to a thread as a rope would have been even thought it would have been impossible to put it through the eye of a needle. A camel has no relationship to a thread of a needle as a rope does. Again simple logic should have told you that , but i think you just like to argue and can not (accept) anything contrary to you thinking it appears. IMO peace and love…………………………………………gene
Gene,The OLDEST mss CLEARLY have CAMEL. It is only A FEW of the later mss that have ROPE.
What difference would it make if Jesus referred to a MOUNTAIN passing through the eye of a needle?
Besides, you're flip-flopping here. First, you said Jesus wanted to use an example that would be “harder” for a man to do. Now, you are agreeing that he was referring to something “impossible” for a man to do – but you are stating that agreement in a manner that makes it look like that was your stance all along. It wasn't.
mike
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 04 2010,15:38) Mike…………Your moving into another subject here, i was saying that the Christ mentioned there is not talking about Jesus , now you have moved it into a completely different subject for us to consider before you have even answered the question of was that Jesus he was talking about or the Anointing SPIRIT of GOD.
Hi Gene,I don't know what you're talking about. You implied that this “anointing spirit” was on Moses, Joshua and the 70 elders.
I pointed out that Paul didn't list ONLY those people as “drinking from the Spiritual Rock Christ”, but ALL of those involved in the exodus.
Only Moses, Aaron, Joshua and the 70 elders had been given the Holy Spirit, but ALL of the Israelites ate the manna. ALL enjoyed clothes that never wore out in 40 years. And ALL “drank from the Spiritual Rock which was Christ”.
What am I leaving unanswered?
mike
Bump for Gene:
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 02 2010,00:57) That should be with the (NATURE) of GOD , Meaning He had GOD'S NATURE (because he recieved it at the Jordan River GOD was (TRULY) IN HIM T8 By the Spirit he recieved, and he never emptied himslef of that nature either,
Then why did Paul say he did Gene? Gene, you didn't answer this question. You point out that it could mean either “form” or “nature” in Phil 2. But Jesus never “emptied himself” of the “nature” of God, right? So doesn't that lean you more to the word “form” in that scripture?
He existed in the FORM of God, but emptied himself and was made in the LIKENESS OF A HUMAN BEING.
What more do you need?
mike
Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 02 2010,18:29) Mike Boll, I hope to look into what you state about “going forth” as it is the first I remember hearing about it.
Okay Kerwin,While you are looking into “goings forth”, I'll move on to another scripture.
John 8:12 NIV
When Jesus spoke again to the people, he said, “I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life.”We can easily see that Jesus was in fact “the light of the world” by this scripture Kerwin. Now you pointed out that Jesus also said his disciples were “the light of the world”. But consider the following:
John 9:5 NIV
While I am in the world, I am the light of the world.”Jesus was in effect “passing the torch” (literally
) to his disciples since he knew he would soon be leaving the world.So, if Jesus said he was “the light of the world”, then why can't you follow John 1?
John 1:9-12 NIV
9 The true light that gives light to everyone was coming into the world. 10 He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. 11 He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. 12 Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God—This “light” came INTO the world that was made through him. And all who “received him” gained the right to become children of his God.
Who does this sound like Kerwin?
peace and love,
mikeGene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 03 2010,23:12) WJ …………..Good to hear from you again , i see you have not changed a bit though, Let me just reply on one thing you mentioned . “Nether let us temp Christ, as some of them did and were destroyed by serpents” > You seem to think that can't mean The Spirit of GOD or Which (IS) the Anointing Spirit that was (IN) Jesus. And think to assume that is taking it out of context right, Well that is exactly what you are doing by assuming that means Jesus (Who by the way is not even mentioned there).
Really Gene? Then why does Paul call Jesus the “Christ” in the same chapter in vrs 16 and then in the next chapter says…Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ. 1 Cor 11:1
And why does Paul use the term to refer to Jesus 71 times in the book of Romans, 60 times in 1 Corinthians, 45 times in 2 Corinthians, 36 times in Galatians, 42 times in Ephesians, 36 times in Philippians, 24 times in Colossians, 13 times in 1 Thessalonians, 12 times in 2 Thessalonians, 15 time in 1 Timothy, 14 times in 2 Timothy, 4 times in Titus, 7 times in Philemon, 13 times in Hebrews?
Gene that’s a grand total of 392 times the Apostle Paul in his writings called Jesus the Christ. And why shouldn’t he? That is what most of the Apostles referred to him as…
Therefore when they were gathered together, Pilate said unto them, Whom will ye that I release unto you? Barabbas, “OR JESUS WHICH IS CALLED CHRIST”? Matt 27:17
Matthew seems to know who he is. Tell us Gene why we should believe you that “Christ” is not referring to Jesus in 1 Cor 10:9 when all the evidence even in the same chapter show Jesus is the “spiritual Rock” that followed them in the wilderness. The scriptures clearly teach that Jesus is “The Christ” spoken of. One has to stick their head in the sand or be smoking something to deny these facts.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 03 2010,23:12) Jesus (THE CHRIST) MEANS JESUS (THE ANOINTED), OF GOD IN CASE NO ONE EVER TOLD YOU THAT WJ.
That’s what I am saying Gene, but you are the one saying Jesus is not (THE CHRIST) which means (THE ANOINTED)! Jesus is “the Christ Gene”, which means the “Anointed” not the anointing. Please show me a scripture that ever refers to the Holy Spirit or Spirit of God as the “Christ” or “anointed”. You do get this don’t you Gene?Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 03 2010,23:12) To help you WJ look up the WORD (Christos) for a starter brother. If you cant understand that look up THE MESSIAH.
Ok let’s do that…Strong's G5547 – Christos Christ = “anointed”
1) Christ was the Messiah, the Son of God
2) anointedChrist equals “anointed” not the anointing. Do you see the words anointing or Spirit in the definition Gene? Jesus is the Christ Gene which also means Messiah. The Spirit of God is not the Messiah or the anointed is it Gene. Why do you twist words?
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 03 2010,23:12) Christ is not Jesus it is Jesus who is the Anoint or Christ because he had been anointed with the SPIRIT of GOD. 
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 03 2010,23:12) God's SPIRIT is the CHRISTOS which was on Jesus and on all of GOD leaders in the old testament it was what was following them in the wilderness working through Moses and the seventy elders and Joshua and many others and even the anointed angles .
Lie. Show me one scripture that refers to the Spirit of God as the “Christ” or Messiah or anointed one?
Gene you just said…”Jesus (THE CHRIST) MEANS JESUS (THE ANOINTED), OF GOD... Now you are saying Gods Spirit is the Christ. You are confused man.Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 03 2010,23:12) WJ interesting it is alway out of context if it doesn't meet you trinitarian belief system right? Kind of like Mikes Preexistence beliefs you two have more in common then you think. IMO 
Gene, read chapter nine and check out the 569 times that Jesus is called the Christ and see who is taking it out of context. Remember Gene, Paul calls Jesus the “Christ”…
- 71 times in the book of Romans
- 60 times in 1 Corinthians
- 45 times in 2 Corinthians
- 36 times in Galatians
- 42 times in Ephesians
- 36 times in Philippians
- 24 times in Colossians
- 13 times in 1 Thessalonians
- 12 times in 2 Thessalonians
- 15 time in 1 Timothy
- 14 times in 2 Timothy
- 4 times in Titus
- 7 times in Philemon
- 13 times in Hebrews
Now you want to tell us Paul is calling the Spirit of God the “Christ” in 1 Cor 10:9?
This is one of the strongest passages in the Bible for the “Deity” of Jesus the Christ and also for his pre-existence, so close your eyes and stick your head in the sand if you want.
The problem you have is this is one of those Trinitarian scriptures that cannot be refuted.
WJ
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 05 2010,06:51) The problem you have is this is one of those Trinitarian scriptures that cannot be refuted.
Whoa! Slow your roll there Mr. Keith!
There is much evidence that supports “Christ” in 1 Cor 10:9, but at least as much evidence that supports “God” and “Lord” in that scripture.
But to say that Jesus was the “angel of Jehovah” in whom Jehovah had put His name is not to say Jesus IS Jehovah. An “angel OF Jehovah” is not Jehovah Himself Keith.
“Christ” in 10:9 would definitely attest to pre-existence, but not to deity. And it's interesting that two of the mss that have “Christ” in 1 Cor 10:9 are also the ones that have “Jesus” in Jude 1:5.
Sounds like a “trinity conspiracy theory” to me.
Seems like someone is “doctoring the books” hey?mike
WJ…………No one is saying Jesus is not an Anointed ONE that is not the [point] we all know he was , But to say he is the (ONLY) anointed One is the Question Here and if that Anointing was on all the Servant of GOD as Scripture say it was then how can you (exclusify) it to mean (ONLY) Jesus and no other. Jesus can be rendered as the Christ , but Moses can be rendered as the Christ also because he also was anointed of GOD as well as the seventy elders and Joshua, do i need to quote the scriptures for you to believe it?
WJ in fact all true Saint are Anointed one or Christs also. What do you think this means “IF THE SPIRIT OF HIM WHO WAS (IN) CHRIST JESUS BE (IN) YOU, (IT) SHALL (ALSO) QUICKEN YOU MORTAL BODIES. Exactly like (IT) did Jesus' mortal body. Jesus was an anointed Person he was not (THE ANOINTING) but (THE ANOINTED) of GOD, WJ.
peace and love to you and yours………………………………………gene
Mike Boll,
It is my understanding that the Holy Spirit is what makes both Jesus and his students the light of the world but I will try to take time to test that tenet.
WJ………..By the way Messiah does not mean SON of GOD, it Means THE ANOINTED of GOD. While that anointing can cause you to be considered a Son of GOD that is the same with Us also. “Bretheren (NOW) we are the Sons of GOD”, it says, But you trinitarians and Preexistences alway try to make Jesus Different from us and move his identity away from our identity, you are indeed Separatist and that Wj is the Spirit (intellect) of Antichrist John was talking about. Your trinitarian roots are clouding you understanding brother. IMO
peace and love…………………………………..gene
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