Preexistence

[mikeboll64]

Okay Gene and Adam and Kerwin.

You guys slipped past this one because of the starting of the second pre-existence thread.  Let's forget John 17:5 for a second and see how you answer this “bread” point.

John 6:41-42 NIV
41 At this the Jews there began to grumble about him because he said, “I am the bread that came down from heaven.” 42 They said, “Is this not Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How can he now say, ‘I came down from heaven’?”

I have only one question for you guys:

Is it abundantly clear from this passage that the Jews to whom Jesus was talking clearly understood him to be saying that he himself CAME DOWN FROM HEAVEN?

Yes or No guys………and be honest – no diversions okay?

peace and love
mike

[mikeboll64]

Quote (gollamudi @ Nov. 23 2010,13:47)

I don't agree with you on Micah 5:2

Hi Adam,

Please explain to me what YOU think Micah 5:2 is saying then.

Thanks,
mike

[Baker]

I am still having problems writing, so all I am going to say to Kerwin, Adam and Gene, your understanding is sin sch……….You don't make sense……..

[kerwin]

Quote (Baker @ Nov. 24 2010,09:50)

I am still having problems writing, so all I am going to say to Kerwin, Adam and Gene, your understanding is sin sch……….You don't make sense……..

I hope you get well.

[terraricca]

Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 23 2010,06:06)

Pierre, The scripture which states why humans are tempted is James 1:14.  If an individual has a human nature then they have evil thoughts no matter their stage of development.  The only exception being is if they have no thoughts.   Accountability is another thing.

kerwin

Jas 1:13 When tempted, no one should say, “God is tempting me.” For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone;
Jas 1:14 but each one is tempted when, by his own evil desire, he is dragged away and enticed.
Jas 1:15 Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death

this is definitely talking about adult people,right
so children according to Gods law and Christ and Paul the parents should and have the responsibility to teach there children right from wrong,but is it enough? it all depend on there own knowledge is with God or from there parents,if from the word of Gos then it would be right from wrong according to scriptures right??

and this would bring the person in direct contact with God ,the love for God would only depend on the one that learning right??

as a child you could really not do much damage provided you are taken care of right??

but as an adult you now have people listen to you and now with the twist the tongue someone can make big dommage,

but you know what you doing

that also depend and so on this is for God not for men.

but you in your inner part you know what is not right because most likely God spirit told you,just like Cain was told.

but it did not listen.

and Satan and all the angels one third of them all,did they not sin knowing that it was against God there creator that they rebel??yes

but for some reason they sew a loop hole in Gods work,this is what they taught.

so anyone can sin angels,men but a time of redemption for children in some cases because what they say may not always be true.even today in the work force no one paid to much attention to teens ,in general.

Pierre

[kerwin]

Mike Boll,

Is Jesus literally “bread” or is he speaking figuratively?

If he is not then why would you think he was speaking literally when he said he came down from heaven?

He is the bread that feeds those who hunger after righteousness and he came down from heaven because he was sent by God for that purpose.

I am not talking a physical location but the spiritual location just as I am speaking of spiritual bread and spiritual hunger.

[Ed J]

Quote (gollamudi @ Nov. 23 2010,14:21)

Hi brother Ed J, You should be open to read other's opinions also. Well framed articles will be useful to us if you are open to read them. Whereas I am ready to give my clarification if any required please. Peace to you Adam

Hi Adam,

I'm open to your opinions!
What are they?

Consider it a requirement then, please do clarify;
What part of preexistence do you disagree with?

God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[kerwin]

Pierre,

I believe James is speaking to adults but all human beings are subject to temptation whatever their age, provided they have any desires at all.

I am positive even children are tempted by evil but because of their lack of mental and/or moral abilities due to development they are not held accountable for their actions. It is at the same time hypothetically possible that a child can believe that Jesus is Lord and thus be able to receive the Holy Spirit.

Children are subject to their parents as they tend to have obedience/ punishment orientation or a selfish interest orientation and require teaching/training to develop out of those stages. Most, but sadly not all adults have thus developed past those stages and thus are capable of teaching their children.

According to scripture even a child is known by whether their conduct is good and right. I have also heard and believe it is true that out of the mouth of a child wisdom can come. Still, children are regarded as ignorant in many cases as they have much to learn.

The knowledge of God comes from God. Scripture and other sources are merely tools that he uses to teach us.

[gollamudi]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 24 2010,13:43)

Quote (gollamudi @ Nov. 23 2010,13:47) I don't agree with you on Micah 5:2 Hi Adam, Please explain to me what YOU think Micah 5:2 is saying then. Thanks, mike

Hi brother Mike,
Here is the trustful translation of Micah 5:2;

“And you, Bethlehem Ephratah – you should have been the lowest amongst the clans of Judah – from you [he] shall emerge for Me, to be a ruler over Israel; and his origin is from old, from ancient days.” (taken from Jewish Translation from the Hebrew).

Micah 5:2 GNB:

“Bethlehem Ephratha you are one of the smallest towns in Judah, but out of you I will bring a ruler for Isreal, whose family line goes back to ancient times.”

So brother Mike where is preexistence of Messiah as you claim here in this verse?

Christian translators wrongly interpreted Jewish scriptures to prove their ideas to fit Jesus into Jewish Messiah. Trinitarians claim Jesus' origins from everlasting whereas preexistence believers claim from the beginning of creation. This scripture talk about only Messiah's human origins from his forefathers like Abraham, Isaac and Jacob who would be of ancient times when compared to future Messiah's arrival on the scene but not any mythical origins like in heaven as you claim here.

Hope this will clarify your doubts on Micah 5:2

Peace to you
Adam

[gollamudi]

Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 24 2010,18:24)

Quote (gollamudi @ Nov. 23 2010,14:21) Hi brother Ed J, You should be open to read other's opinions also. Well framed articles will be useful to us if you are open to read them. Whereas I am ready to give my clarification if any required please. Peace to you Adam Hi Adam, I'm open to your opinions! What are they? Consider it a requirement then, please do clarify; What part of preexistence do you disagree with? God bless Ed J http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

So you don't like my posts as you seem to ignore them.
So sad..
Adam

[GeneBalthrop]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 24 2010,13:42)

Okay Gene and Adam and Kerwin. You guys slipped past this one because of the starting of the second pre-existence thread.  Let's forget John 17:5 for a second and see how you answer this “bread” point.

Mike………Actually it is you who slips past what is being said , an do it by not answering what we post and change subject matter to something else. Very sneaky and tricky if you ask me, this is how you get around responding to our posts. That is being dishonest Mike rather you realize it or not. IMO

So seeing i ask you first does the Glory GOD has preplanned for Man (EXIST) in the Presents of GOD or NOT. Try not to change the subject this time.

As you say, a simple, Yes or No will suffice.

peace and love…………………………………….gene

[GeneBalthrop]

Quote (gollamudi @ Nov. 24 2010,19:35)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 24 2010,13:43) Quote (gollamudi @ Nov. 23 2010,13:47) I don't agree with you on Micah 5:2 Hi Adam, Please explain to me what YOU think Micah 5:2 is saying then. Thanks, mike Hi brother Mike, Here is the trustful translation of Micah 5:2; “And you, Bethlehem Ephratah – you should have been the lowest amongst the clans of Judah – from you [he] shall emerge for Me, to be a ruler over Israel; and his origin is from old, from ancient days.” (taken from Jewish Translation from the Hebrew). Micah 5:2 GNB: “Bethlehem Ephratha you are one of the smallest towns in Judah, but out of you I will bring a ruler for Isreal, whose family line goes back to ancient times.” So brother Mike where is preexistence of Messiah as you claim here in this verse? Christian translators wrongly interpreted Jewish scriptures to prove their ideas to fit Jesus into Jewish Messiah. Trinitarians claim Jesus' origins from everlasting whereas preexistence believers claim from the beginning of creation. This scripture talk about only Messiah's human origins from his forefathers like Abraham, Isaac and Jacob who would be of ancient times when compared to future Messiah's arrival on the scene but not any mythical origins like in heaven as you claim here. Hope this will clarify your doubts on Micah 5:2 Peace to you Adam

Adam………..Good post brother and accurate also. People do not realize how our text have be alter over time and influenced by Trinitarian and Preexistence translators over time. Their overall work is a Work of SEPARATION of JESUS from our EXACT identity. This is the work of Antichrist and they do not even realize it.IMO

peace and love…………….gene

[GeneBalthrop]

Mike ………….If you would get a Hebrew and Greek interlinear translations and Key in on some of those word that you believe are proof text of Jesus Preexisting as a (BEING) before his berth you might change you mind on many things you have assumed was proofs when in fact they were from Trinitarians who recieved their mindset from the Greek and Roman Pagans ideologies. Remember it say the sum total of GOD words are truth , because little parts can and have been taken out of context and words changed to convey false teachings over time. IMO

peace and love…………………………………………….gene

[GeneBalthrop]

Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 24 2010,17:36)

Mike Boll, Is Jesus literally “bread” or is he speaking figuratively? If he is not then why would you think he was speaking literally when he said he came down from heaven? He is the bread that feeds those who hunger after righteousness and he came down from heaven because he was sent by God for that purpose.   I am not talking a physical location but the spiritual location just as I am speaking of spiritual bread and spiritual hunger.

Kerwin……….Good post right on brother. Jesus came from above because GOD who is above Sent Him into the world, to preach the Gospel to all creation.

peace and love to you and yours……………….gene

[Ed J]

Quote (gollamudi @ Nov. 24 2010,19:41)

Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 24 2010,18:24) Quote (gollamudi @ Nov. 23 2010,14:21) Hi brother Ed J, You should be open to read other's opinions also. Well framed articles will be useful to us if you are open to read them. Whereas I am ready to give my clarification if any required please. Peace to you Adam Hi Adam, I'm open to your opinions! What are they? Consider it a requirement then, please do clarify; What part of preexistence do you disagree with? God bless Ed J http://www.holycitybiblecode.org So you don't like my posts as you seem to ignore them. So sad.. Adam

Hi Adam,

Did you write that?
Be honest?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Ed J]

Quote (gollamudi @ Nov. 24 2010,19:35)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 24 2010,13:43) Quote (gollamudi @ Nov. 23 2010,13:47) I don't agree with you on Micah 5:2 Hi Adam, Please explain to me what YOU think Micah 5:2 is saying then. Thanks, mike Hi brother Mike, Here is the trustful translation of Micah 5:2; “And you, Bethlehem Ephratah – you should have been the lowest amongst the clans of Judah – from you [he] shall emerge for Me, to be a ruler over Israel; and his origin is from old, from ancient days.” (taken from Jewish Translation from the Hebrew). Micah 5:2 GNB: “Bethlehem Ephratha you are one of the smallest towns in Judah, but out of you I will bring a ruler for Isreal, whose family line goes back to ancient times.” So brother Mike where is preexistence of Messiah as you claim here in this verse? Christian translators wrongly interpreted Jewish scriptures to prove their ideas to fit Jesus into Jewish Messiah. Trinitarians claim Jesus' origins from everlasting whereas preexistence believers claim from the beginning of creation. This scripture talk about only Messiah's human origins from his forefathers like Abraham, Isaac and Jacob who would be of ancient times when compared to future Messiah's arrival on the scene but not any mythical origins like in heaven as you claim here. Hope this will clarify your doubts on Micah 5:2 Peace to you Adam

Hi Adam,

Do you find preexistence to be troubling to you?
What anti-Jesus religious zealot practicing Judaism
site have you harvested your propaganda Posts from?

Here is non-biased Hebrew translation of “The Tanakh” for you; Adam…

Mic.5:2 But as for you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, Too little to be among the clans of Yahudah,
From you One will go forth for Me to be ruler in Yisrael. His goings
forth are from long ago, From the days of eternity.

Seems the AKJV Bible did a pretty good Job on this one as well!

Micah 5:2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah,
yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings
forth have been from of old, from everlasting.

Are you accusing The AKJV translators of 1611,
who were commissioned to do a “word for word”
translation of having tampered with “The Tanakh”?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Proclaimer]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Nov. 25 2010,01:34)

Adam………..Good post brother and accurate also. People do not realize how our text have be alter over time and influenced by Trinitarian and Preexistence translators over time. Their overall work is a Work of SEPARATION of JESUS from our EXACT identity. This is the work of Antichrist and they do not even realize it.IMO peace and love…………….gene

The antichrist spirit denies that Jesus CAME in the flesh.
Is it not true that you deny that he CAME in the flesh.

It goes like this. He existed with divine nature, emptied himself, and CAME in human flesh.

Correct me if I got this wrong, but I think it is you that denies that he came in the flesh, rather do you not say that he is the flesh?

To come in something or to be that something is 2 different things is it not?

If I came in a car, then would I be that car, or would I be the person inside?

[Proclaimer]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 24 2010,13:42)

Is it abundantly clear from this passage that the Jews to whom Jesus was talking clearly understood him to be saying that he himself CAME DOWN FROM HEAVEN? Yes or No guys………and be honest – no diversions okay?

Did you get an answer or did you get nothing?

[terraricca]

T8

thats the question that will not recieve an answer, Gene ,Adam,Kerwin will not answer to truth.

Pierre

[mikeboll64]

Quote (gollamudi @ Nov. 24 2010,19:35)

This scripture talk about only Messiah's human origins from his forefathers like Abraham, Isaac and Jacob who would be of ancient times when compared to future Messiah's arrival on the scene but not any mythical origins like in heaven as you claim here. Hope this will clarify your doubts on Micah 5:2

Hi Adam,

Why then would God inspire Micah to write this about Jesus?  Wouldn't your explanation of it fit every single Jew out there?  Don't all Jews “originate” from Abraham, Isaac and Jacob?

Your understanding is that God was letting the Jews of Micah's day in on a big secret……but all it amounted to was that the Messiah would be a Jew?  

Didn't they already know that?  After all, it was already known that he would be the offspring of David, right?

mike

[Author]

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