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Quote (shimmer @ Oct. 31 2010,19:37) Thanks Ed. Iv just always been curious about Hermas, People read things and feel something with it, I did with The Sheppard, some do with the church fathers, church fathers just made me confused, Hermas was before them, I'm seeing if it agrees with scripture. If it doesnt I will forget thinking about it.
Hi Shimmer,Have you ever heard of a fence law?
I'm not saying to stay away from non-Canonical writings,
only to not put them on the same level as Scripture; OK?God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Ed J @ Nov. 01 2010,01:06) Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 31 2010,10:54) shimmer i got a question for you;is anyone who has knowledge and does not follow Christ and his apostles teachings,are called antichrist,it is not those who do not know Christ came in the flesh, right??
Pierre
Hi Terraricca,Is BD getting to you?
God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
edjno,but i think i start to get on his nerves
Pierre
Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 31 2010,17:04) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 31 2010,05:48) Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 31 2010,04:25) John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee(HolySpirit)
the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
No Ed,God's name is Jehovah. Jehovah has a Spirit, as do we all. Our spirits are not “us” any more than Jehovah's Spirit is Him.
mike
Hi Mike,There is no indefinite article in Greek!
John 2:24 God is Spirit:
and they that worship him
must worship in spirit and in truth.Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
EDJ…………You have that right , “GOD (IS) SPIRIT, not (has) spirit as Mike seems to think. GOD is what Life (IS) and Creates it in us by way of SPIRIT and these SPIRITS can Be spoken through WORDS so If these Words come from Spirit (intellect) they are what LIFE (IS). We are told to try the spirits (intellects) to see if they are from GOD, so what are we trying then the words someone is speaking because they come from the heart and expose that persons mind to us. Therefore Jesus says , the WORDS I AM SPEAKING TO YOU (ARE) SPIRIT AND (ARE) LIFE. Why because SPIRIT (our intellects) or thinking is what LIFE (IS). SO A MAN THINKS SO HE (IS), OR EXISTS same thing. We are made up of mind and Body which equals a Soul , That mind operates by the SPIRIT (IN) IT> That is the true Person and that mind animates and controls the body it is the true source of Life. WE recieved from GOD, in the first place no matter how distorted it becomes from the (influence of the World) after our exposure to the world, God can cleans it and reshape our thinking and save us all. All thing are possible with GOD IMOpeace and love to you and yours…………………………gene
Ed:
Quote Hi Mike, Good questions!
1) He came to Jesus in a bodily shape like a dove. (Luke 3:22)
If it was God who came to be inside Jesus in the shape of a dove, then who was the voice from heaven saying, “This is my Son”?Ed:
Quote 2) This parable explains question #2…
Sorry Ed. I don't see how the parable of the Good Samaritan explains how our God can die.Ed:
Quote 3) God The Father raised Jesus up. (Galatians 1:1)
So God “left” Jesus' body before Jesus was killed? At which point did this happen? When he was being whipped? Spat upon? Nailed to the stake? And what about all those prayers Jesus made TO God? Was it really God praying to Himself in heaven?This is also what Gene overlooks. He says the Word is the literal words of God, and Jesus spoke nothing but them. But that means when Jesus prayed to his God, it was really God praying to Himself.
Ed:
Quote 4) The same way all fathers have glory when they have a son.
It doesn't say the Word had the glory of a Father who has a son. It says the Word had the glory of an only begotten [son] FROM the Father.Ed:
Quote 5) Webster's Collegiate Dictionary…
Became: came into existence, came to be, underwent change.
“The Word BECAME flesh”. Did God “come into existence” as flesh? Did God “come to be” a flesh being? Did God “undergo change” to BECOME a flesh being? Any way you slice it, your understanding has God Himself becoming a flesh being.mike
Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 31 2010,16:55) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 31 2010,05:44) Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 31 2010,04:31) NOBODY would think that your spokesman was your word.
And if you said you gave you word, others would think that you will keep your promise!
Hi Ed,Why God’s Son is called “the Word.” A title often describes the function served or the duty performed by the bearer. So it was with the title Kal-Hatzé, meaning “the voice or word of the king,” that was given an Abyssinian officer. Based on his travels from 1768 to 1773, James Bruce describes the duties of the Kal-Hatzé as follows. He stood by a window covered with a curtain through which, unseen inside, the king spoke to this officer. He then conveyed the message to the persons or party concerned. Thus the Kal-Hatzé acted as the word or voice of the Abyssinian king.—Travels to Discover the Source of the Nile, London, 1790, Vol. III, p. 265; Vol. IV, p. 76.
peace and love,
mike
Hi Mike,There are many who mis-understand what Matt.18:16 really means!
Matt.18:16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more,
that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word “[ [ [ may ] ] ] be established”.This does NOT mean that if you don't believe me
I will go and get Bob and Pete and they will tell you
the same thing, so you better believe what I tell you!
This is a common fallacy, believed by many BABY Christians.
THIS TACTIC WILL NOT WORK! PERIOD!! Why do so many try this futile tactic?
There is no peace (Ezekiel 13:10-12) or love using this tactic (Isaiah 54:17)!What Matt.18:16 really means is: when someone hears “Bible Truth” spoken by more than one,
but using different words, the truth hits home in the ears of the hearer, helping to establish truth for them!
That is also what 1Cor.14:24 means…1Corinthians 14:24 But if all prophesy, and there come in one that
believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all:
Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
I don't understand your answer, Ed. Do you refute that the Abyssinian King had a spokesman who was referred to as “his word”?What does your post actually answer?
mike
Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 31 2010,17:04) Hi Mike, There is no indefinite article in Greek!
John 2:24 God is Spirit:
and they that worship him
must worship in spirit and in truth.
You are correct…..remember that for my next post.
Thankfully, the do have a genetive form that they use to show possesion.So by understanding “the Spirit OF God”, we can figure out that God has A Spirit.
Agreed?
mike
Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 31 2010,17:32) Hi Mike, Preexistence is not the primary issue of this Post.
Greek #2316 God: θεός (theos) Thē-ôs:
a deity, the supreme divinity, very:- exceedingly God, GodwardlyThis same word (θεός) is used in “TWO” places in John 1:1.
Why are you making a special distinction for the second time?John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word,
and the Word was with God,
and the Word was God.
Hi Ed,It is not I who “makes a distinction”, but John. One “theos” is in John 1:1 is preceeded by the definite article. The other is not. As you mentioned in your previous post, the Greeks did not use an indefinite article. It has to be inserted by English translators for it to make proper sense in English. The NWT correctly inserts the indefinite article in John 1:1, while almost every other translation leaves it omitted so the text can sound like Jesus is God Himself.
John 1:1 NWT
In [the] beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god.In order to help you understand this, look at Acts 12:22,
Acts 12:22 NIV
They shouted, “This is the voice of a god, not of a man.”The writer Luke does not add the indefinite article “A” here, as you know, because they don't use it in the Greek language.
But virtually every major English translation inserts it for our understanding. Why? Because it is clear from the context that Luke did not mean “THE God”. Why? Because he didn't use the definite article “THE” in front of “god”. Here's another:Acts 28:6 NIV
The people expected him to swell up or suddenly fall dead, but after waiting a long time and seeing nothing unusual happen to him, they changed their minds and said he was a god.Again, the word “A” is not there in the Greek text, but every major English translation inserts it for our understanding. And again, they do so because we know Luke didn't mean “THE God”, for he didn't use the word “THE”.
Now, if we can understand this simple rule of grammar in Acts 12:22 and 28:6, then why can't we understand it in John 1:1? John uses the definite article in front of only one of the “gods” mentioned. That means one was “THE God”, and the other was “a god”.
Can you understand these scriptural examples? Do you have any SCRIPTURAL reason whatsoever to disclaim what I have just showed you?
peace and love,
mikeI asked:
Quote (1)But God's SPIRIT cannot BECOME FLESH and remaing a Spirit at the same time, can it? Ed answered:
Quote 1) Why not? Are you not both flesh and Spirit? (Rom.8:16 / 1Cor.6:20)
Yes I am. But the “spirit” part of me is not “flesh” and the “flesh” part of me is not “spirit”.Ed:
Quote 2) John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us,
(and we beheld his(God's) glory, the glory(of God) as of the only begotten of the Father,)
full of grace and truth.
Ed, you are not thinking this through completely. How does God have the glory of an only begotten FROM God?Ed:
Quote 3) It is not my Job to convince you, only to present “Bible Truth”![/qoute]
If what you speak really is “Bible Truth”, then you would EASILY convince me Ed. But that is a lame “fallback” sentence to say after I've showed you the scriptural and logical flaws in your theory……don't you think?Ed:
4) Was God's glory not in Jesus?
The Son radiated the glory of God. God shares His own personal glory with no one. And you seem to ignore that the glory spoken of was the glory of someone who was an only begotten. Was God the Father ever “begotten”?Ed:
Quote 5) Became means: came to be; see earlier Post of mine.
And see my answer to your earlier post. No matter how you define “became”, it still adds up to “God BECAME flesh” in your theory.mike
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 01 2010,04:55) This is also what Gene overlooks. He says the Word is the literal words of God, and Jesus spoke nothing but them. But that means when Jesus prayed to his God, it was really God praying to Himself.
Mike………I see you not only quote scripture wrong you also miss quote me. Please show me where i ever said Jesus Spoke to himself. If you can find whee you said that then just admit you lied or misrepresented me if you can>
what you fail to understand is GOD is OMNIPRESENT He is virtually every in his creation at once. If you understood what Spirit really was you could understand that. God can be in us and outside of us at the same time, He is Spirit it is like Water we have water in us and there in water in the air and in the sea and rivers and lakes.When you pray are you talking to GOD or not or through A visible TELEPHONE LINE CONNECTED in your BRAIN.
When Jesus cried out “my God, My GOD Have YOU forsaken ME”?. He thought GOD had truly forsook Him , Why because you cant see GOD and Neither could He see Him, Jesus probably thought GOD would intervene at some Point and stop the whole thing and when He realized that was not going to happen and he really was going to die that reality struck him and great fear griped him and He cry out asking God if he had forsaken Him.
Jesus was a human (exactly in every way as we are)> Go read what those at he valley of dead Bones last words were and you might begin to get the Picture because we all will some day fact the most likely. Dying for a young healthy Man 32 years old is hard indeed. The face of death carries a (reality) like no other. IMO
That voice of the SON of MAN Jesus was Hardly the voice of a person who had been Morphed from a Past Life and have already been through that experience of dying and rebirth before. As you and other preexistences believe. Just another proof of preexistence fallacy.
The word of God are literial (FROM GOD) Who WAS (IN) Jesus Literally. Remember Thomas said ” MY Lord (and ) MY GOD, to think GOD was not present (IN) Jesus is simply not true He LITERALLY was there. GOD was CO-HABITING (IN) Jesus' body which he reckoned as a TEMPLE as HE does with us also. “NO YOU NOT YOU (ARE) the temple of GOD. Remember When GOD spoke through Jesus Mouth and Said “DESTROY THE (TEMPLE) AND IN THREE DAY (I) WILL RAISE (IT UP”. The I speaking there was indeed very GOD HIMSELF, speaking through Jesus mouth. Jesus was (DEAD) so how could he raise himself Up, not possible if you are really dead as Jesus said He was.
When are you going to start to understand some of these thing Mike?
peace and love to you and yours……………………..gene
Mike Boll,
Perhaps, I did not make my point clear. My point being that Jesus is not the actual Word of God but that he is the fulfillment of the Word. I agree with you that Jesus is referred to as the Word of God but then so is Scripture. We could therefore conclude that Scripture was God and was with God in the beginning and late was made flesh.
There are two questions that come to mind. The first is was John speaking literally or in mysticisms. If the answer is he was speaking in mysticisms then the second question is what he meant by “Word”. According to Jesus in order to properly understand the mysticisms of Scripture you must be led by God.
John could have been speaking clearly and literally meant God’s Word and we know that God’s Word is complete in Jesus. In addition John could be speaking of the Spirit of God which Jesus testifies dwells in him?
You wrote:
Quote They were not expecting God to send someone who had been around way before David.
You say that but you present no evidence to support your conclusion. That does not help others to learn why you believe your interpretation is from God.
You wrote:
Quote You yourself point out that scripture cannot be broken Kerwin. These are both CLEAR scriptural examples.
Correction, you choose to call them clear and yet break scripture with your chosen interpretation since reason dictates that the ancestor is born first. Abraham saw the time of Jesus because he believed God. You have failed to explain how your chosen interpretation does not break scripture.
You wrote:
Quote Everything in scripture does NOT seem like common sense to our flawed human understanding Kerwin…….but it is nevertheless still scripture.
Incorrect; Scripture supports scripture and if your chosen interpretation, no matter how clear it may seem to you, contradicts other scriptures and that conflict cannot be resolved then your chosen interpretation is wrong. Seek understanding according to the Spirit of Righteousness.
I can guess at what Jesus meant but I would rather look into it deeper and contemplate on it with prayer and humility before venturing even a hypothesis for I desire to understand God’s intent.
Gene:
Quote Mike………I see you not only quote scripture wrong you also miss quote me. Please show me where i ever said Jesus Spoke to himself. If you can find whee you said that then just admit you lied or misrepresented me if you can>
Don't call me a liar, for I am not. Do you think John 1:14 speaks of the “literal words of God” being made flesh within Jesus Christ? Do you not support that flawed belief by quoting scriptures that have Jesus saying he only speaks God's words? If both of these are “Yes”, then it is true what I said. And it is also true that if Jesus ONLY spoke God's words, then when Jesus prayed to his God, it was really God praying to Himself.Gene:
Quote GOD is OMNIPRESENT He is virtually every in his creation at once.
That's a common misunderstanding Gene. Where is the scriptural proof that says God is “omnipresent”? If God has no boundaries, then what separates what IS God from what is NOT God? Is EVERYTHING God? Which of the following sentences is scriptural Gene?
1. God CREATED everything.
2. God IS everything.How about these two?
1. Everything is OF God.
2. Everything IS God.Gene:
Quote When Jesus cried out “my God, My GOD Have YOU forsaken ME”?. He thought GOD had truly forsook Him
Jesus quoted Psalm 22 in his last words. He never thought God had actually forsaken him, for he knew what had to pass before it ever happened. He knew he would be raised on the third day and that he would ascend TO WHERE HE WAS BEFORE.Gene:
Quote Why because you cant see GOD and Neither could He see Him,
John 6:46 NIV
No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only he has seen the Father.Once again, you are teaching unscriptural things Gene.
Gene:
Quote The word of God are literial (FROM GOD) Who WAS (IN) Jesus Literally
The scripture says the Word became flesh, not “the Word came to be IN someone who WAS flesh. Do you understand this Gene?Gene:
Quote Remember Thomas said ” MY Lord (and ) MY GOD, to think GOD was not present (IN) Jesus is simply not true He LITERALLY was there.
When Paul got bitten by the snake on the island of Malta and they thought him to be a god, was it because they saw Paul do something that was supernatural……….or because they literally SAW God Himself “inside Paul”? When Paul said Satan is “the god of this world”, was it because Paul literally SAW God Himself “inside Satan”…….or was it because the word “god” simply meant “mighty one”? You yourself just made a post that the word “god” meant “power”. So could it be that Thomas realized the “power” of Jesus when he saw him raised from the dead just like Jesus had told him he would? Could Thomas have been calling Jesus “mighty one”? Or is the ONLY answer to this scripture the one YOU give?Gene:
Quote GOD was CO-HABITING (IN) Jesus' body which he reckoned as a TEMPLE as HE does with us also.
Then why did Jesus teach us to pray to our Father IN HEAVEN? Why didn't he teach them to pray to their Father INSIDE OF HIM?Gene:
Quote Remember When GOD spoke through Jesus Mouth and Said “DESTROY THE (TEMPLE) AND IN THREE DAY (I) WILL RAISE (IT UP”. The I speaking there was indeed very GOD HIMSELF, speaking through Jesus mouth. Jesus was (DEAD) so how could he raise himself Up, not possible if you are really dead as Jesus said He was.
Gene, no one is arguing against the fact that God spoke through Jesus, as He did through all of His prophets. But unlike the other prohpets, you seem to think that Jesus wasn't his own person. You seem to think that every word out of Jesus' mouth was God's “literal words” that were “flesh” inside of him. And that's just not scriptural, dude.Gene:
Quote When are you going to start to understand some of these thing Mike?
When will you, Gene? For now, just start with the realization that John 1:14 says, “THE WORD BECAME FLESH”, and not, “the Word came to be IN someone who WAS flesh”. Can you do that? Can you come to grips with what the scripture actually says?Shimmer brings home a good point. We all seem to get wrapped up in personal insults and name calling. Gene, can you and I just discuss scriptures? Can we start leaving the personal attacks out of it? I hope so. I know I will try harder.
peace and love
mikePierre,
The Spirit of Christ aka The Spirit of God, The Holy Spirit, and The Spirit of Righteousness is definitely active before the conception of Jesus. In his teachings Jesus figuratively referred to the Spirit as himself, God, A combination of the two, and even the believers as it connects all parties in the Unity together. The original source of the Spirit is God and we receive it through faith in Jesus.
The Spirit is not Jesus but is the righteousness that comes from God and it spoke and/or acted through the men of God or other servants of God to the people that existed before the conception of Jesus.
Examples of this are the Spirit of Christ spoke through Noah to warn the people of that time that if they did not heed God’s warning they would perish. The Spirit of Christ spoke through the mouth of an Angel to Mosses from the burning bush. The Spirit of Christ guided the Children of Israel through the desert as an Angel in the form of a pillar of cloud during the day and a pillar of fire at night.
Some instead speculate that these actions are Jesus’ as they do not properly understand the workings of the Spirit of God.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 01 2010,09:42) Shimmer brings home a good point. We all seem to get wrapped up in personal insults and name calling. Gene, can you and I just discuss scriptures? Can we start leaving the personal attacks out of it? I hope so. I know I will try harder.
Hi Mike,If I can quote princess of the king, from another thread, I hope she doesnt mind,
(quote)..Every person is born with the spirit, attaining this again is the goal, does not anyone understand that the faith of a child is the most precious, during this time in our lives is when we are the closest we will ever be.
When we cover the spirit with ego/pride, then we move away, then it becomes a choice, for it brings the fight of flesh and spirit...(unquote)
I thought that was really good.
Kerwin:
Quote :Perhaps, I did not make my point clear. My point being that Jesus is not the actual Word of God but that he is the fulfillment of the Word. I agree with you that Jesus is referred to as the Word of God but then so is Scripture. We could therefore conclude that Scripture was God and was with God in the beginning and late was made flesh.
You and I agree that Jesus is not that actual “words” that God has spoken from the history of the world. And you and I agree that Jesus is called by his title “Word of God”. But when given the choice of whether the “Word” who was with God in the beginning was the Spokesman known as “the Word of God” or “Scripture”……..your for some reason choose “Scripture”.Does “Scripture” fit into the rest of John 1? How about the rest of the Gospel of John? Not even close. Put the whole book together, and explain how the “Scripture” became flesh. How does “Scripture” have the glory of an only begotten son? Were all things created through “Scripture”? Is it by believing in “Scripture” that we can earn the right to be called “children of God”? Is it “Scripture” that John the Baptist wasn't fit to tie the sandals of? Is “Scripture” the “only begotten” who is at God's side and who has made Him known? In fact, do any of these even make sense at all?
So which “Word” is it MOST likely that John speaks of in 1:1-2? “Scripture”………or the PERSON who we both agree is known as “the Word of God”?
Kerwin:
Quote John could have been speaking clearly and literally meant God’s Word and we know that God’s Word is complete in Jesus.
But like I keep telling Gene and Ed, 1:14 does NOT say this “Word” came to be IN someone who WAS flesh. It says this “Word” actually BECAME flesh. Can “Scripture” BECOME flesh?Kerwin:
Quote In addition John could be speaking of the Spirit of God which Jesus testifies dwells in him?
If God's Spirit BECAME flesh, then other scriptures do not make any sense. For one, can God's Holy Spirit be called His “only begotten Son”? In fact, instead of going on, let's just dwell on this point.Who can rightfully be said to have the glory of an only begotten from the Father?
A. Jesus, who we KNOW is an only begotten from the Father?
B. Scripture?
C. God's Holy Spirit, which is a part OF God, not a separate entity?Kerwin:
Quote You wrote: Quote They were not expecting God to send someone who had been around way before David.
You say that but you present no evidence to support your conclusion. That does not help others to learn why you believe your interpretation is from God.
What do you mean? The scripture presents the evidence:41While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them, 42″What do you think about the Christ? Whose son is he?”
“The son of David,” they replied.Don't you understand this conversation in Matt 22, Kerwin? The Jews were expecting the Messiah to be someone who was ONLY a descendant of David. Jesus went on to explain that can't be the whole truth, for David calls this descendant “my Lord”.
Kerwin:
Quote Correction, you choose to call them clear and yet break scripture with your chosen interpretation since reason dictates that the ancestor is born first.
Yes Kerwin. Human reason DOES dictate that the ancestor is born first. This is the same human reasoning that the Pharisees were using at the time Jesus questioned them about it. What do you think the whole point was that Jesus was making? He knew what their human reasoning dictated…..that's why he brought it up in the first place. Jesus knew that before him, no being had ever existed in a different nature before being made in a human nature. There's no way these Pharisees could have seen this coming, for there was never a time that it happened before Jesus. So Jesus brought it up to show them that if they would have read the Psalm more closely in the first place, it was explained all along that the Messiah would be someone who was both before AND after David. And although Jesus didn't bring up “Root and Branch” on this occasion, he could have also used those scriptures as well to prove the same point he was making. (Isaiah 11:1 and 10)Like those Pharisees, we ALL think a descendant comes AFTER. That is natural human reasoning. But unlike those Pharisees, I choose to believe my Lord and Savior when he says that is NOT what happened in this case. You choose not to believe him, instead sticking with your own human reasoning…….just like the Pharisees did.
So while you say I am “breaking scripture”, it is really “human reasoning” that I am breaking. And I only break it because my Lord clearly explains that in this case, it needs to be broken.
Kerwin:
Quote Scripture supports scripture and if your chosen interpretation, no matter how clear it may seem to you, contradicts other scriptures and that conflict cannot be resolved then your chosen interpretation is wrong.
Good advice my friend. Can you show me where any understanding I have is contradicted by scripture? And I don't mean a case where YOUR scripture could explain things a different way than my understanding. I would like to see a scripture that CLEARLY and DIRECTLY tells me my understanding is incorrect. I and some other good people here are in the process of putting a scriptural database together. And MANY of those scriptures CLEARLY and DIRECTLY refute YOUR understanding about the pre-existence of Jesus.peace and love,
mikeShimmer,
I realize you desire that we all get along but that is not how Jesus said it would be. He stated that two in a family would be against three. This must happen to test our hearts and shape us either to show who is approved by God and to aid those who so desire to mature in Christ. Be a peacemaker between man and God and not between man and man according to the ways of this world. May you learn to do that well.
Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 01 2010,11:09) Shimmer, I realize you desire that we all get along but that is not how Jesus said it would be. He stated that two in a family would be against three. This must happen to test our hearts and shape us either to show who is approved by God and to aid those who so desire to mature in Christ. Be a peacemaker between man and God and not between man and man according to the ways of this world. May you learn to do that well.
Hi Kerwin,No I dont desire that everyone gets along, I can understand that here we have people saying things that arent true, and often done in a negative spirit, which can hurt others, when people disagree, there should be no personal attacks, no grudges or ignoring others, thats where it's wrong, it gets too carried away. Also it's ok for people to talk, discuss and debate, but when one has an agenda, and uses tactics, to get others on their side, it's almost as if they are trying to start a 'cult' of their own.
I have seen people here say they have things revealed to them from God, thats what happened to all those who started their own 'branches' off christianity, eg mormans, Islam etc, Iv seen it here, anyone being pulled in is their whole focus, anyone who gets in their way becomes their enemy.
So keeping discussions as discussions is good, debates as well. But people becoming personal, turning one against another etc, that needs to be stopped.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 01 2010,07:42) Don't call me a liar, for I am not. Do you think John 1:14 speaks of the “literal words of God” being made flesh within Jesus Christ? Do you not support that flawed belief by quoting scriptures that have Jesus saying he only speaks God's words?
Gene:Quote The word of God are literial (FROM GOD) Who WAS (IN) Jesus Literally
The scripture says the Word became flesh, not “the Word came to be IN someone who WAS flesh. Do you understand this Gene?Gene:
Quote Remember Thomas said ” MY Lord (and ) MY GOD, to think GOD was not present (IN) Jesus is simply not true He LITERALLY was there.
Mike……..If you are not lying then produce where i said that Jesus “ONLY” Spoke GODS WORDS, meaning (ONLY) and that is all He (ever) spoke . You are forcing meaning like you do scriptures of what is implied by what is said, Perhaps you so intent on trying to prove a person wrong it is blinding you eyes. Mike that would be like me saying because i Speak GODS Words to a person that is (ONLY) the Words i (EVER) Speak. I never said that nor implied it either.Mike ………God (WAS) Truly (IN) Jesus , Don't you believe it , When He aid the FATHER (IS) (IN) MY. What do you think it means
THAT GOD MAY BE ALL AND (IN) YOU ALL.Tell me this have you ever had GOd Speak first person through you mouth. I have had that happen . Once i was involved wiht a Church and the minister wuld come down once a moth and had ask me to speak and others the rest of the time , well as time went on more and more of this was laid on me , And belive it or not it's not easy to speak every week and say somehthing tha tis both encourageing and uplifting, but the church began to Grow and Grow and i was feling the pressur more and more , I was not a person who preached the LAW and the organization and would collect any money for the organization . so the stared to bring other ministers from other area in to preach which was fine with me, But on Passoever services one time this (wanta be) minister gave this hammer under the law tye sermon and i could how everyone was beibgeffected by it all, So at the end of the sermon I Jot up and gave a mini sermon about the grace of GOD in all of our live trying to encourage and edify them some. Well later that day after the passover we were eating together and celebrating the night to be much remembered , and the minister said to me in front of all that were present ,”Gene why did you see fit to give a disclaimer after my sermon” I responded ” I was just talking to them about the GRACE of GOD”. The he said “so was I” (which in fact he was not) and then suddenly my mouth just spoke these word , “why then are you saying it was a declaimer” as i live i had no idea where that came from i had not even thought of saying that at all, it just came right out of my mouth. The Minister just stuttered and was so confounded he could not even speak. I still am amazed about that when i think about it, Now doe this happen all the time NO not at all.
But i do believe God speaks first Person through People at times and confounds the mighty, as He also did Jesus at times to. As in the case of God uttered through Jesus' mouth “destory this temple and in three day i will raise it up. IMO
peace and love ………………………gene
Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 01 2010,08:00) Pierre, The Spirit of Christ aka The Spirit of God, The Holy Spirit, and The Spirit of Righteousness is definitely active before the conception of Jesus. In his teachings Jesus figuratively referred to the Spirit as himself, God, A combination of the two, and even the believers as it connects all parties in the Unity together. The original source of the Spirit is God and we receive it through faith in Jesus.
The Spirit is not Jesus but is the righteousness that comes from God and it spoke and/or acted through the men of God or other servants of God to the people that existed before the conception of Jesus.
Examples of this are the Spirit of Christ spoke through Noah to warn the people of that time that if they did not heed God’s warning they would perish. The Spirit of Christ spoke through the mouth of an Angel to Mosses from the burning bush. The Spirit of Christ guided the Children of Israel through the desert as an Angel in the form of a pillar of cloud during the day and a pillar of fire at night.
Some instead speculate that these actions are Jesus’ as they do not properly understand the workings of the Spirit of God.
Kerwin………..you have it right brother.peace and love to you and your , hope you are feeling better brother…………………….gene
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