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Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 30 2010,21:16) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 30 2010,13:27) Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 30 2010,13:15) The “HolySpirit” is indeed “The Word”; does this information help you(Mike) to understand now?
It sure helps me understand something about you!
Hi Mike,Great! I will count that as progress!
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
edji can not help my self to answer you on the fact that you believe the Holy Spirit is THE WORD that became flesh.is it ??
so Christ preexisted has the WORD (Holy Spirit ??)and so the holy spirit became flesh?
is that what you are saying
?Pierre
Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 30 2010,14:11) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 30 2010,13:25) Quote 5) Is the world without “the word” now that Jesus is NOT here in the flesh?
No………answered above.Now, will you comment on my post about whether it's better to take the scripture as it is written, or “assume” something else is meant? Maybe you could comment or show some error in my thinking about all the things John said about the “Word” are also things we know to be true about Jesus. And maybe you could comment about how we all know Jesus is called the Word in Rev.
mike
Hi Mike,Should we take Ezekiel 1:1-28 as written?
Or how about the flying scorpions in Rev.9:10?
Or how about the dragon mentioned in Rev.12:3?
Are you going to the place that is mentioned in Rev.4:6?Who then is lying John or these…
1Kgs:22:19: And he said, Hear thou therefore the word of the LORD:
I saw the LORD sitting on his throne, and all the host of heaven
standing by him on his right hand and on his left.2Chron:18:18 Again he said, Therefore hear the word of the LORD;
I saw the LORD sitting upon his throne, and all the host of heaven
standing on his right hand and on his left.Amos:9:1 I saw the LORD standing upon the altar: and he said,
Smite the lintel of the door, that the posts may shake:
and cut them in the head, all of them; and I will slay the last of them with the sword:
he that fleeth of them shall not flee away, and he that escapeth of them shall not be delivered.John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time;
the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.Why do you 'think' the distinctions you make are correct?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Hi Ed,I will go with the words of Jesus:
John 6:46 NIV
No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only he has seen the Father.Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 30 2010,14:12) As I pointed out the Word of God is not David’s descendant. If the Word became flesh that alone would cause scripture to be broken.
Yet Revelation says he is Kerwin. Jesus is called both the Word of God AND the Offspring of David in that Book.You have to ignore some scriptures, change the words of others, and then change the meaning of the context in still others to keep your flawed doctrine. And that still isn't enough………now you are crying “foul” by insinuating it must be a mistranslation or a scribe messed up?
mike
Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 30 2010,14:15) Otherwise my comment is I don't agree!
Okay Ed. Could you PLEASE take me through the post step by step pointing out the particular things you disagree with……..and why?mike
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 30 2010,18:19) Maybe you could explain what you really meant by that post? mike
OK, so I forgot to say I had been reading Sheppard of Hermas, and so on, lets drop it now.Mike Boll,
You wrote:
Quote Yet Revelation says he is Kerwin. Jesus is called both the Word of God AND the Offspring of David in that Book.
You are correct that Jesus is the Offspring of David but you are wrong to Say he is the Word of God. Word of God is his title as he is the fulfillment of the Word of God just like he declares in scripture, Matthew 5:17. In addition God is not a God of confusion so the ancestor does not come after the descendant. In order for David to have been the ancestor of the Word then he would have to be born prior to the Word.
Once again scripture cannot be broken.
I proved that it could very well be a mistranslation as the translators could be biased and so selected the definition that best fit their bias. The difficulty of that definition is that it breaks scripture and that is evidence it is flawed.
You do realize the contortions you are making in attempt to justify a doctrine that counters common sense and reason by insisting the offspring exists before the parent does?
Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 30 2010,18:50) Mike Boll, You wrote:
Quote Yet Revelation says he is Kerwin. Jesus is called both the Word of God AND the Offspring of David in that Book.
You are correct that Jesus is the Offspring of David but you are wrong to Say he is the Word of God. Word of God is his title as he is the fulfillment of the Word of God just like he declares in scripture, Matthew 5:17. In addition God is not a God of confusion so the ancestor does not come after the descendant. In order for David to have been the ancestor of the Word then he would have to be born prior to the Word.
Once again scripture cannot be broken.
I proved that it could very well be a mistranslation as the translators could be biased and so selected the definition that best fit their bias. The difficulty of that definition is that it breaks scripture and that is evidence it is flawed.
You do realize the contortions you are making in attempt to justify a doctrine that counters common sense and reason by insisting the offspring exists before the parent does?
kerwin! In John 1:1 The Word of God was with God and was God.
And in verse 14 the Word became flesh. We do know that the Word became Jesus. Of course you could take it that it is the Word and not a person. However there are two here. We also know that Jehovah God never became flesh, so that rules it out.Now lets go to
Rev 19:11 ¶ And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him [was] called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
Rev 19:12 His eyes [were] as a flame of fire, and on his head [were] many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
Rev 19:13 And he [was] clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
Rev 19:14 And the armies [which were] in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
Rev 19:16 And he hath on [his] vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
Now tell me something is there another being that fits this description?
I don't think so…..Along with Col. 1:15-17
Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether [they be] thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
and
Rev.3:14 ¶ And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;
In Col. 1:18 it says this
And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all [things] he might have the preeminence.
Preeminence means He was firstborn of all creation and firstborn of the dead, so He may have (all) preeminence…..
kerwin, I like you, but here you are denying great and clear Scriptures……. Jesus is coming back as THE WORD OF GOD. That is His title just as God is a title…. that is the way I can explain it……
.
Peace and Love IreneMike………..So we can assume from you response about the “WORD” that you do not believe GOD the FATHER was Truly (IN) Jesus as Jesus said He was. a simple Yes or No answer will suffice.
Mike………. So did GOD (truly) indwell Jesus as Jesus said he did, a simple YES or NO answer will suffice.
Mike ………. Is it true the words Jesus spoke to us were truly not his words, a simple Yes or NO answer will suffice.
Mike……….So Thomas did not mean MY Lord (AND) my GOD,were present (IN) Jesus at the time he said that, did he truly mean by this his Lord Jesus Christ (and) his GOD was Present when he said that. A simple yes or No answer will suffice.
Mike ……….So when Jesus said the Father (IN) Me (HE) does the works, did he truly mean that?. A simple yes or no will suffice.
Mike……….When Jesus said the words i am telling you are (NOT) My WORDS, did he truly mean that?. A simple Yes or NO answer will suffice.
Mike ………> When John said the WORD WAS GOD, did He truly mean that , a Simple Yes or No answer will suffice.
Mike ………If you can answer these simple question with out having to add explanation to any of them, with a simple YES , then you may be understanding them if you answer them with No, you are confused regarding them> And have bought into MYSTERY RELIGION of the APOSTATE CHURCHES. IMO
Mike, GOD and HIS WORD are one and the SAME BEING. Jesus is not truly GODS WORD He is the Spokesmen of them the same as the Prophets were, they also spoke GODS word to us.
You make a big deal out of the fact Jesus was a son of GOD as if there were no others, who are son of GOD, in fact John said (NOW) we are the Son of GOD, ADAM is a Son of GOD also. You preexistences continually try to drive a wedge between Jesus' identity with ourselves and human kind. This is the SPIRIT (intellect) of Antichrist, rather you realize it or not that is the Spirit of Antichrist, it is the spirit that separates Jesus' identity for mankind.
peace and love…………………………………..gene
Mike, do you really believe that “The Word of God had a vesture on dipped in blood, and was He called
Rev 19:14 And the armies [which were] in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
Rev 19:16 And he hath on [his] vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
And
Jhn 1:14 ¶ And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Wow, was He really the only begotten of the Father? That is really what it says!!!!!!
Peace and Love Irene
Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 30 2010,18:50) Mike Boll, You wrote:
Quote Yet Revelation says he is Kerwin. Jesus is called both the Word of God AND the Offspring of David in that Book.
You are correct that Jesus is the Offspring of David but you are wrong to Say he is the Word of God. Word of God is his title as he is the fulfillment of the Word of God just like he declares in scripture, Matthew 5:17. In addition God is not a God of confusion so the ancestor does not come after the descendant. In order for David to have been the ancestor of the Word then he would have to be born prior to the Word.
Once again scripture cannot be broken.
I proved that it could very well be a mistranslation as the translators could be biased and so selected the definition that best fit their bias. The difficulty of that definition is that it breaks scripture and that is evidence it is flawed.
You do realize the contortions you are making in attempt to justify a doctrine that counters common sense and reason by insisting the offspring exists before the parent does?
Kerwin……..The word (became) in English mean (came to be). The word who (IS) GOD (came to be) (IN) Jesus the Complete GOD was there (fullness of the Spirits) dwelt in him bodily, and even spoke directly at time through Jesus mouth. GOD was truly Indwelling Jesus, Just as He can anyone He choses to. This is the Picture they are missing , God was indeed (IN) Jesus and can be (IN) All and Through ALL. God upholds all life because He is what Life IS. If he were to retract from the world all would Parish that has life in them on the earth. God is the Life giver of His creation, and lives vicariously (IN) and through it to one extent or another, He is Omnipresent. But non of that makes the Man Jesus the GOD that (INDWELT) HIM. We are temples of the living GOD which he indwells. IMOpeace and love to you and yours……………………..gene
Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 30 2010,18:50) Mike Boll, You wrote:
Quote Yet Revelation says he is Kerwin. Jesus is called both the Word of God AND the Offspring of David in that Book.
You are correct that Jesus is the Offspring of David but you are wrong to Say he is the Word of God. Word of God is his title as he is the fulfillment of the Word of God just like he declares in scripture, Matthew 5:17. In addition God is not a God of confusion so the ancestor does not come after the descendant. In order for David to have been the ancestor of the Word then he would have to be born prior to the Word.
Once again scripture cannot be broken.
I proved that it could very well be a mistranslation as the translators could be biased and so selected the definition that best fit their bias. The difficulty of that definition is that it breaks scripture and that is evidence it is flawed.
You do realize the contortions you are making in attempt to justify a doctrine that counters common sense and reason by insisting the offspring exists before the parent does?
Kerwin:Quote You are correct that Jesus is the Offspring of David but you are wrong to Say he is the Word of God. Word of God is his title
Kerwin, that is just like saying, “You are wrong to say Jehovah is God………God is just His title”. But John called Jesus by the “title” of “the Word of God” in Revelation. Title or not, it still means that Jesus is the one referred to as “the Word of God”. So when John later wrote down his gospel, is it such a leap to consider that he also meant Jesus was “the Word” who was with God in the beginning, was himself a “mighty one”, became flesh, dwelled among us, and had the glory of an only begotten from the Father? In fact, who else could he have meant? God's Holy Spirit never “BECAME flesh”. God's spoken words don't have the glory of an only begotten Son.The Pharisees were also stumped by this. They thought the Messiah would be the literal offspring of David and nothing more. They were not expecting God to send someone who had been around way before David. But Jesus tried to explain how they were wrong by using scripture. He asked them how David could call the Christ “my Lord” if the Christ was “his son”.
Jesus tried again using Abraham. He clearly told the Pharisees, “before Abraham was born, I have been.”
You yourself point out that scritpure cannot be broken Kerwin. These are both CLEAR scriptural examples. So who is it again that must “contort” scripture? I'm just reading the words as they were written. It is you who must change and twist the words and their meanings because it doesn't make sense to your flawed human brain. Everything in scripture does NOT seem like common sense to our flawed human understanding Kerwin…….but it is nevertheless still scripture.
And there are so many scriptural referrences to Jesus' pre-existence, but unfortunately, you guys are willing to twist or ignore them all.
Kerwin, can you tell me what Jesus meant about Abraham and David in the quotes listed above?
peace and love,
mikeQuote (shimmer @ Oct. 30 2010,17:25) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 30 2010,18:19) Maybe you could explain what you really meant by that post? mike
OK, so I forgot to say I had been reading Sheppard of Hermas, and so on, lets drop it now.
Hi Shimmer,The conversation WAS dropped. It was YOU who brought it back up by implying I said something unsubstantiated.
So, just out of curiosity, which is it? Do you agree with JA that Jesus pre-existed, or do you think that Gene, Kerwin and Marty are showing “good fruits” by trying to show he didn't?
It can't be both.
mike
Mike……….Why are you even questioning Shimmer in the first place would be the best question are you trying to pit one against the other or what. Shimmer has a right to believe any way she want to Just as you preexistences and Trinitarians do. Quite trying to coral Her it is quite frankly non of your business . You have enough problems trying to figure out your own mess you have caused Here. IMO
peace and love…………………………………gene
Gene:
Quote Mike………..So we can assume from you response about the “WORD” that you do not believe GOD the FATHER was Truly (IN) Jesus as Jesus said He was. a simple Yes or No answer will suffice.
Yes. Does that mean Jesus didn't pre-exist? A simple Yes or No will suffice.Gene:
Quote Mike ………. Is it true the words Jesus spoke to us were truly not his words,
Sometimes. It stands to reason that when Jesus is praying TO his God, God was not praying to Himself.Gene:
Quote Mike……….So Thomas did not mean MY Lord (AND) my GOD,were present (IN) Jesus at the time he said that, did he truly mean by this his Lord Jesus Christ (and) his GOD was Present when he said that.
No. Thomas called Jesus his Lord and his “mighty one”.Gene:
Quote Mike ……….So when Jesus said the Father (IN) Me (HE) does the works, did he truly mean that? A simple yes or no will suffice.
Yes. Does this mean Jesus didn't pre-exist? A simple Yes or No will suffice.Gene:
Quote Mike ………> When John said the WORD WAS GOD, did He truly mean that ,
John said the Word was with THE God, and was “a god”, or “mighty one”. So the question is invalid.Gene:
Quote Mike ………If you can answer these simple question with out having to add explanation to any of them, with a simple YES , then you may be understanding them
Your turn Gene.
John 17:5 NRSV
So now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had in your presence before the world existed.
Gene, does Jesus ask to be glorified now, with the same glory he had in God's presence before the world existed? A simple Yes or No will suffice.Phil 2:6-7 NIV
6Who, being in the form of God,
did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,
7but made himself nothing,
taking the form of a servant,
being made in human likeness.Gene, was Jesus in the form of God, but then made himself nothing and was made in human likeness? A simple Yes or No will suffice.
John 6:62 NIV
62What if you see the Son of Man ascend to where he was before!Acts 1:9 NIV
9After he said this, he was taken up before their very eyes, and a cloud hid him from their sight.It's true the disciples saw Jesus “ascend”. But did Jesus say he was there BEFORE? A simple Yes or No will suffice.
And Gene, don't expect me to answer your posts anymore when you leave so many of mine unanswered. Maybe you missed them………should I bump a couple of them for you?
mike
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 31 2010,03:04) Quit trying to coral Her it is quite frankly none of your business
And my discussions with Shimmer are “none of your business”, right?Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 29 2010,19:22) Kerwin,
I agree and understand the Spirit is God's righteous spirit that dwells in all that believe in His Son, as you do. His Spirit acts according to God's will, yes, that is true.When it comes to Jesus, it seems that you understand Him only according to His humanity and not according to His divinity. What you say about Him being a human being and the mediator of the new covenant is true but I do believe that He is connected to God by His essence, or nature and by being His image and Son from eternity before creation in a very active way according to His divinity.
Gotta go take my sons out to eat…TGIF!
Kerwin,
Did you respond to this and I missed it?Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 30 2010,13:30) And Ed, 1) Could you please PERSONALLY post to me and my points? We have all seen your “stock” responses to certain points many times. You didn't even delete Irene's name from the last one.
Btw, is the Holy Spirit also the one called “King of kings and Lord of lords”?
mike
Hi Mike,1) People keep asking the same questions. Sor I didn't put your name at the top
2) “The Word”(HolySpirit) is called KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS in Revelation 19:16.
LORD of Lords(117) is 117=יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD), the “God Spirit”(117). (John 14:28 / Rev.1:5)
KING of Kings(101) is GOD(26) ((26)יהוה), because 101 is the 26th prime number. (Psalm 29:10 / Psalm 10:16)
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 30 2010,13:33) Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 30 2010,13:19) Hi Mike, You don't take up your cross daily?
No Ed,I don't know where to buy a stake meant to be used for crucifying people.
Do I fight the good fight every day? Sure. Am I willing to be hated for the SCRIPTURALLY CORRECT good news daily? Sure, I'm hated by some of those on this very forum.
mike
Hi Mike,This verse cannot be taken to mean carry a cross around with you!
Luke 9:23 And he said to them all, If any man will come after me,
let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Ed J @ Oct. 31 2010,04:08) KING of Kings(101) is GOD(26) ((26)יהוה), because 101 is the 26th prime number. (Psalm 29:10 / Psalm 10:16)
And what if it happened to be the 27th prime number? What then?Come on Ed, forget the numbers that anyone can make say anything. Deal with scripture. How do you figure the Holy Spirit is the Lord of lords and King of kings?
And you can't just say, “Because God is those things”…….because the Holy Spirit is not God Himself, but the Spirit OF God.
mike
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