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Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 23 2010,05:33) Hi Mike, How do you connect Matt.6:10, which was before “Pentecost”=117
to Rev.21:2-3 (which is a reference to to God's “Feast of Booths”)?
Hi Ed,Matt 6:10 is a PRAYER we are to make as a SUPPLICATION that eventually (and sooner rather than later) God's will is what will be done by all on earth as it is done by all in heaven (after Satan and his demons were thrown out).
God's will was by no means being done by any majority of people living when Jesus taught us to pray this way. It is a prayer indicating our HOPE that it will soon be this way.
peace and love,
mikeQuote (JustAskin @ Oct. 23 2010,06:25) Please don't take it personally but your thoughts on these issues was completely wrong.
I don't have the answers to this one yet JA. The scripture clearly says the “dwelling of God is with MEN, and He will live with them”. Are these the “men” who will be “changed in a twinkling of the eye” that Paul mentions? Are these the “men” who will be “like angels” that Jesus spoke of?I simply don't know the answer right now, so maybe you are right that I'm completely wrong.
peace and love,
mikeQuote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 24 2010,02:01) Irene……..And i have told you, your are forcing the text to say what in fact it does not say. First of all………..Jesus was no even talking about himself as existing before his berth there , he was talking about the GLORY that Preexisted His earthly existence. THAT GLORY was preexistent and he already had that Glory with the Father before he was ever born or came into existence.
Gene,t8 is right about you – you are “The Great Pretender”.
You talk about “forcing text”, yet you are the one who is doing it with this nonsense.Jesus said that “HE” – the person, “HAD” glory “IN HIS GOD'S PRESENCE” “BEFORE THE CREATION OF THE WORLD”.
He did NOT say, “Glorify me with the GLORY that you've had waiting for me since before the world”. He said HE HAD THAT GLORY AT THE SIDE OF GOD BEFORE THE WORLD WAS CREATED.
The only “forcing” going on here is yours – and your “forcing” doesn't even bring the scripture to a logical statement. It's nothing but gibberish by the time you're done “rearranging and explaining” it.
peace and love,
mikeQuote (JustAskin @ Oct. 24 2010,12:06) Everything that is required to understand the Scriptures – is in the Scriptures.
What does that mean really, JA? It means that all YOU need is the particular English translation that you have in front of you. But how do you know that translation has it right? For example:John 1:18 NIV
No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father's side, has made him known.John 1:18 (Contemporary English Version)
18No one has ever seen God. The only Son, who is truly God and is closest to the Father, has shown us what God is like.John 1:18 (King James Version)
18No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.NASB John 1:18
No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.These are just four of the MANY different English renderings of the same scripture. Which one is correct JA? How do you know? Is the word “God” or “Son”? Again, how do you know?
Go ahead JA……..take the “WetNanny” leap. You might find you enjoy the research.
peace and love,
mikeQuote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 24 2010,12:38) Quote (Baker @ Oct. 23 2010,04:19) Hi Mike! I have been thinking a lot today. This is the way I understand what will be in the New Earth and the New Heaven. Since flesh and blood cannot enter in, only those that are Spirit Beings will be able to do so….. Almighty God is and was always a Spirit Being and divine. I also believe that since they are divine they are not able to change. I have no Scripture for that, but to me it makes sense. I also had asked Georg who will be teaching all truths to those who are Human, He thinks it is the Priests who will do so….
Peace and Love Irene
Hi Irene,Maybe I posted too soon to Pierre on this subject, because you are correct that flesh and blood cannot enter. And Jesus is still called a “man”, although Paul says he has be given back his “spiritual” body.
I better back up and do some thinking and praying on this one before I spout off again.
Thank God for you and Pierre,
mike
Mike, All the thanks go to our Heavenly Father, by His Holy Spirit it is that we understand Scriptures. Georg and I have always searched to know God. Even in the CArholic Church we thought there was something wrong,I was a Song Leader to encourage people to sing. I used to get so upset, because the sat in front of me and fell asleep. And could not wait until the half hour Mass was over, and left before the last song…and then they sinned during the week and went to confession on Saturday and started the cycle all over again……Crazy…..Peace and Love IreneQuote (Baker @ Oct. 24 2010,21:29) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 24 2010,12:38) Quote (Baker @ Oct. 23 2010,04:19) Hi Mike! I have been thinking a lot today. This is the way I understand what will be in the New Earth and the New Heaven. Since flesh and blood cannot enter in, only those that are Spirit Beings will be able to do so….. Almighty God is and was always a Spirit Being and divine. I also believe that since they are divine they are not able to change. I have no Scripture for that, but to me it makes sense. I also had asked Georg who will be teaching all truths to those who are Human, He thinks it is the Priests who will do so….
Peace and Love Irene
Hi Irene,Maybe I posted too soon to Pierre on this subject, because you are correct that flesh and blood cannot enter. And Jesus is still called a “man”, although Paul says he has be given back his “spiritual” body.
I better back up and do some thinking and praying on this one before I spout off again.
Thank God for you and Pierre,
mike
Mike, All the thanks go to our Heavenly Father, by His Holy Spirit it is that we understand Scriptures. Georg and I have always searched to know God. Even in the CArholic Church we thought there was something wrong,I was a Song Leader to encourage people to sing. I used to get so upset, because the sat in front of me and fell asleep. And could not wait until the half hour Mass was over, and left before the last song…and then they sinned during the week and went to confession on Saturday and started the cycle all over again……Crazy…..Peace and Love Irene
Irenethe wive and i felled the same way wen we left the organized religion,because wen we joint it was for the truth of God for the company,we were looking to please God not men.
Pierre
correction
Irene
the wive and i felled the same way wen we left the organized religion,because wen we joint it was for the truth of God ,not for the company,we were looking to please God not men.
Pierre
Mike,
Your four examples all mean the same thing: 'The Son of God'
Only because some to see the word, or rather, the 'title' of 'God' as being explicitly meaning 'God Almighty, is there confusion.
Seems many hide their own ignorance behind cognitive ignorance.
You, yourself, point out that 'God' cannot be 'With God'.
Therefore, it is clear that 'God' must be seen in a contexual manner, each time interpreted as the context requires.
You, yiurself, have pointed out that 'God' means 'Mighty One' (Amongst other meanings, such as 'Hero', 'The best of the best', 'The most accomplished', etc.)Then, reading again, 'God is with [the] God', it is immistakeable that there is one who is a 'top God' and another who is 'top frim amongst other would-be Gods'.
In other words, 'God, the Amighty God, is with the one who is senior amongst, or over, the others who would also qualify as Gods'Which also translate as, ''Almighty God was with 'the Hero', 'the mighty one' ''.
Of course, you need to switch things around…'The mighty one was with God' but the context is the same.Now, verses such as John 1:1, makes perfect sense, the cunundrum is diffused and trinity 'proof' is broken: 'In the beginning was the Word [of God Almighty]. And the Word of [the Amighty God] was with [the Almighty God]. And the Word [of the Almighty God] was a …a Hero, One invested with Power Might and Authority, a Mighty One amongst and over those others whom might also have been so.
Why the latter part of that accollade? Because this: How is one a hero, a mighty one, if there was no one over whom that one was mightier, or be a hero to?
And if mightier, if a hero, then would others not also have had to be 'in the running'. The race is not run by one person else the prize is certain…no matter what the outcome, no matter what the effort. And if so, how is that one 'Mighty'?In Revelation, the Lamb is chosen…from…among…those standing around the throne of God, the Almighty.
The Lamb, is Amomg them, he is not 'set apart', he is chosen because he was the ONLY one who was righteous enough to open the Seal.
What does Scriptures say elsewhere, 'For God loved him because he Loved Righteousness and hated iniquity MORE THAN THE OTHERS'…who are the 'Others'?, and what if 'the Others' had loved righteousness and hated iniquity as much as 'the lamb', could it have been one of them opening the Seal (the answer is 'no' because it was already purposed but read it in an open 'what if' manner).Ok, back to you. I see no problem in the contextual reading of the meaning of 'God' whereever it is written. Only if you don't understand what you are reading, the cognition, would you be confused, as trinitarians are 'forced' to be, 'forced to comply'.
When God said to Moses, 'You will as God to Aaron', did anyone misunderstand this. What did God mean?
Trinitarians quickly dismiss this verse because it would means to them that there are now Four Gods…yet it is clear that, in their rendering, God is calling Moses 'God' also.
In same manner, Jesus says, 'I am the SON of God' and trinitarians rush to say, 'see, Jesus says he is God'…how deluded?
Jesus says he is 'the SON of God' and why not, because God himself called 'them Gods', unto whom the word of God came (The elders, the Fathers, the Prophets), by which he meant, 'Mighty ones', mighty ones of his word of truth and righteousness.And 'Your throne, O God…'. What is the issue. 'O God', does not mean anything to do with 'God Almighty'. It simply means, 'mighty one', 'o mighty one', 'o great one'…Anyone can apply that statement to anyone one else of deserving cause.
I called WJ, 'Mighty God' of this forum, 'Mighty Trinitatarian God' of this forum, yet am I saying that WJ is 'God…Almighty', no! And yet WJ did not respond to my awarding him this honor, praise and glorification, and he did not seek 'Worship' not even 'Obesiance', for his noble heroic position.
Why? Perhaps because it was easily discernable that 'Mighty God' was just a title, it does not, in itself, carry any power or authority, except that which is given to it by the one giving it. That is, in this case, JustAskin. And, no, there was no power nor authority in the giving of that title, for the only power and authority in Trinity, is one in deception and delusion, and that comes from Satan, the father of the Abomination.So, Mike, how are your wetNanny thousand page debates bringing you closer to what is right in front of you. Have you got any closer?
See this, at the end of the never ending (?) debate, you will only be back to reading the Scriptures again, as it is written.
Ok. Enjoy the journey… see you when you come back.And may you avoid the God of this system of things and hold to the God of His Word and become a God, yourself, to this forum, for the sake of the God of his God, God the Almighty.
Gene, you would have seen these verses, right ?
“And now, Father, glorify thou me in thy own presence with the glory which I had with thee before the world was made.
“I have manifested thy name to the men whom thou gavest me out of the world; thine they were, and thou gavest them to me, and they have kept thy word.
Now they know that everything that thou hast given me is from thee; for I have given them the words which thou gavest me, and they have received them and know in truth that I came from thee; and they have believed that thou didst send me.
Gene, the only reason I put them here is because it was shown to me tonight, otherwise I wouldnt have.
Hi JA,
You said:
Quote Why the latter part of that accollade? Because this: How is one a hero, a mighty one, if there was no one over whom that one was mightier, or be a hero to?
And if mightier, if a hero, then would others not also have had to be 'in the running'. The race is not run by one person else the prize is certain…no matter what the outcome, no matter what the effort. And if so, how is that one 'Mighty'?In Revelation, the Lamb is chosen…from…among…those standing around the throne of God, the Almighty.
The Lamb, is Amomg them, he is not 'set apart', he is chosen because he was the ONLY one who was righteous enough to open the Seal.
What does Scriptures say elsewhere, 'For God loved him because he Loved Righteousness and hated iniquity MORE THAN THE OTHERS'…who are the 'Others'?, and what if 'the Others' had loved righteousness and hated iniquity as much as 'the lamb', could it have been one of them opening the Seal (the answer is 'no' because it was already purposed but read it in an open 'what if' manner).
You've made this claim many times in many threads. And each time I point out to you that Jesus already WAS something better than those “others”, for each and every one of them came into existence THROUGH Jesus. And each time I point this out to you, you either ignore that part of my post, or disappear altogether from that thread for a while. When will you address this scriptural fact?
Everything, whether visible or invisible, came into being through Jesus. In fact, nothing that came to be was brought into existence without him. Those “others” who you think were vying for the esteemed position Jesus attained to were all made through him in the first place.
JA:
Quote So, Mike, how are your wetNanny thousand page debates bringing you closer to what is right in front of you. Have you got any closer?
Yes JA. MUCH closer in MANY different ways.JA:
Quote See this, at the end of the never ending (?) debate, you will only be back to reading the Scriptures again, as it is written.
Ok. Enjoy the journey… see you when you come back.
And once again, what YOU call “scripture” is merely one Englishman's best INTERPRETATION of what the Greek, Hebrew and Aramaic says. And in many cases, such as John 1:18 that I listed, those Englishmen are biased toward the trinity, and let that bias clearly show by the way they translate the original words of scripture.You are free to base your understanding of scripture on whatever way a certain trinitarian scholar decided to render the Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek words into English in the particular translation you are using at the time. But don't knock the majority of us on HN for wanting to dig a little deeper. For by simply comparing translations, it is very easy to see there are many possible ways a certain scripture can be translated into English. And the difference in those ways can sometimes make that one scripture mean totally different things.
peace and love,
mikeQuote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 24 2010,12:32) Gene: Quote Mike……….You are not being truthful with the word there as being among you , look it up in the GREEK text and it is written as (IN) YOU
Okay Gene…….have it your way. Now all you have to do is explain to us why Jesus would say the Kingdom of God was IN the Pharisees who were seeking to kill the Son of God. Because Jesus didn't say the Kingdom of God is “in certain ones of us”, did he? No, he point blank said TO THE PHARISEES that the Kingdom of God is IN YOU.
Mike……….The problem we are having here is i have answered these things many times and you simply do not accept those answers, and Keep saying i have not answered them, to present yourself as right by trying to make a case of me or others not really answering them when in fact it is you who do not answer questions and scriptures put to you.Here is and example of what i am talking about, You imply i have not answered about Jesus saying the Kingdom of GOD was in the Pharisees when in fact i have. MY answer was Jesus (NEVER SAID THE KINGDOM OF GOD WAS (IN) (THE PHARISEES), You saying that would be the (alternative) Not ME. You fail to understand Jesus was showing them about the FACT that the kingdom of GOD must be IN them and it did not come with outside OBSERVATION. Jesus was showing them (HOW) the Kingdom of GOD exists , and that had nothing to do with the kingdom of God being in them at (that time) , but it certainly was in Jesus and they did not (percieve) it because they like you were looking for and outward existence of that Kingdom of GOD. They wanted signs and wonders and even when those things were given they still did not get it.
It is non wonder you get so many thing out of context , Mike i think if you would kinda stand back and view scripture from a more overall context of what is being said , instead of looking for some single word that causes you to lose focus on what in being implied by the text as a whole , that would help you brother. IMO
peace and love to you and yours…………………………gene
Quote (shimmer @ Oct. 24 2010,23:54) Gene, you would have seen these verses, right ? “And now, Father, glorify thou me in thy own presence with the glory which I had with thee before the world was made.
“I have manifested thy name to the men whom thou gavest me out of the world; thine they were, and thou gavest them to me, and they have kept thy word.
Now they know that everything that thou hast given me is from thee; for I have given them the words which thou gavest me, and they have received them and know in truth that I came from thee; and they have believed that thou didst send me.
Gene, the only reason I put them here is because it was shown to me tonight, otherwise I wouldnt have.
Shimmer……….Indeed everything you quoted there is right , but none of that say Jesus Preexisted His berth on earth. That glory was a(foreordained) glory Jesus knew who he was , he was a foreordained Man that was to be the First one BORN into the kingdom of GOD He Knew all the things written about him in the Law and the Prophets , he full well understood those things while he was on earth and He spoke of them. His glory was preordained he never had that GLORY until He recieved it after His resurrection from the dead.Shimmer notice >”I have manifested thy name to the men whom thou hast given me (OUT OF THE WORLD) (THINE THEY WERE)” a past tense expression, So when (WERE THEY GODS) was it before they were ever born , can we apply this to the text as they have about Jesus also then, because it does say that right? It appears to say or imply they preexisted also right. And they did, in the Plan and WILL of GOD Just as Jesus did also. But they nor Jesus actually existed as Beings till they were born and this is the same with Jesus.
Notice Jesus did not say he was in the presents of GOD HIMSELF, they are forcing the text to say that , what Jesus said was the (GLORY) he had in the presents of GOD. Yes GOD had a Preplanned GLORY reserved in Heaven for the MAN JESUS. Jesus full well understood that and all saint also Have that PREPLANNED GLORY also reserved for them in Heaven to.
Shimmer all who separate Jesus from our (EXACT) LIKENESS are indeed of the ANTICHRIST, that is the Spirit (intellect) of the Antichrist John was addressing in his Gospel. It is this Spirit (intellect) that SEPARATES us from Jesus making Him different from us. WE are brothers and sisters of Jesus in every way he is one of Us Son and Daughters of MAN. And adopted Son and Daughters of the LIVING GOD.
peace and love to you and yours…………………..gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 25 2010,10:31) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 24 2010,12:32) Gene: Quote Mike……….You are not being truthful with the word there as being among you , look it up in the GREEK text and it is written as (IN) YOU
Okay Gene…….have it your way. Now all you have to do is explain to us why Jesus would say the Kingdom of God was IN the Pharisees who were seeking to kill the Son of God. Because Jesus didn't say the Kingdom of God is “in certain ones of us”, did he? No, he point blank said TO THE PHARISEES that the Kingdom of God is IN YOU.
Mike……….The problem we are having here is i have answered these things many times and you simply do not accept those answers, and Keep saying i have not answered them, to present yourself as right by trying to make a case of me or others not really answering them when in fact it is you who do not answer questions and scriptures put to you.Here is and example of what i am talking about, You imply i have not answered about Jesus saying the Kingdom of GOD was in the Pharisees when in fact i have. MY answer was Jesus (NEVER SAID THE KINGDOM OF GOD WAS (IN) (THE PHARISEES), You saying that would be the (alternative) Not ME. You fail to understand Jesus was showing them about the FACT that the kingdom of GOD must be IN them and it did not come with outside OBSERVATION. Jesus was showing them (HOW) the Kingdom of GOD exists , and that had nothing to do with the kingdom of God being in them at (that time) , but it certainly was in Jesus and they did not (percieve) it because they like you were looking for and outward existence of that Kingdom of GOD. They wanted signs and wonders and even when those things were given they still did not get it.
It is non wonder you get so many thing out of context , Mike i think if you would kinda stand back and view scripture from a more overall context of what is being said , instead of looking for some single word that causes you to lose focus on what in being implied by the text as a whole , that would help you brother. IMO
peace and love to you and yours…………………………gene
geneyou still teaching those personnal views.
“And now, Father, glorify thou me in thy own presence with the glory which I had with thee before the world was made.
“I have manifested thy name to the men whom thou gavest me out of the world; thine they were, and thou gavest them to me, and they have kept thy word
WHAT JESUS ACTUAL IS SAYING IS THIS;FATHER I HAVE FINISHED THE JOB YOU HAVE GIVEN ME TO DO,SO COULD YOU NOW BRING ME BACK TO BE WERE I WAS BEFORE YOU CHANGED ME TO DO THIS WORK,
glory = position
PierreQuote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 25 2010,03:31) Mike……….The problem we are having here is i have answered these things many times and you simply do not accept those answers, and Keep saying i have not answered them,
Hi Gene,No……..you haven't. If I'm wrong, and I just missed your answers, then please forgive me and give a quick answer. I'll just repeat ONE of the questions, okay?
1. Can you tell me one thing you've EVER done in your entire lifetime to follow the teachings of Jesus that you couldn't have done if he pre-existed?
You said:
Quote MY answer was Jesus (NEVER SAID THE KINGDOM OF GOD WAS (IN) (THE PHARISEES), You saying that would be the (alternative) Not ME.
But what does the scripture say, Gene?Luke 17:20-21 NIV
20Once, having been asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, Jesus replied, “The kingdom of God does not come with your careful observation, 21nor will people say, 'Here it is,' or 'There it is,' because the kingdom of God is within you.”The NIV adds a footnote that says “or among you”. But let's work with the “within you”, since that's where your head is no matter how many other scriptures list the Kingdom of God as a physical place. If the word is correctly translated “within”, then Jesus most definitely says the word “within” DIRECTLY TO THE PHARISEES. Jesus replied TO THE PHARISEES WHO ASKED THE QUESTION, “the Kingdom of God is within YOU“.
So, if the word IS “within”, then Jesus was saying the Kingdom of God was “within” the Pharisees. I am not changing the words here, Gene. And unlike you, I'm not about to just imagine exact Biblical words “must have MEANT something other than what they said”. This is how you make scriptures fit into YOUR idea of what they should say. If the word “black” doesn't fit into YOUR doctrine, you simply “imagine”, that based on the context, the word “black” really means “white” in this verse. And you don't even care that changing it to “white” not only changes the meaning of God-inspired scripture just to suit YOUR wishes, but often times, your end result is a sentence that makes no logical sense whatsoever.
But in the case of Luke 17:21, we only have two choices. Either Jesus said the Kingdom of God was “within” the Pharisees, or Jesus said the Kingdom of God was “in the midst of” the Pharisees. Which makes more sense? Which seems more likely to be in line with scriptures as a whole?
peace and love,
mikeJA…………Your are changing words to fit you assumptions…………..first of all it say “THE WORD (WAS) GOD” John 1:1 … In the beginning was the WORD (intelligent utterance) and the WORD (intelligent utterance) was with God and the WORD (intelligent utterance) WAS GOD. And by the way, God told Mosses YOU SHALL BE (AS) GOD TO ARON < You on the other hand say Moses was a GOD to ARON hardly the same thing being (AS),or, (a Representative of) and actually being IT. "For there are many gods, but into us there is ONLY ONE GOD", and there are many Lords but unto Us there is one lord the Lord Jesus Christ. Jesus plainly said "THOU ART THE (ONLY) TRUE GOD" but what it appears you are saying Jesus and Moses was TRUE GOD. I might be wrong but that is what is appears you are saying.
peace and love……………………….gene
Gene,
So much for “answering” my points. You skipped right over this one. Please DIRECTLY answer this post. At least answer to the bolded part.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 24 2010,02:01) Irene……..And i have told you, your are forcing the text to say what in fact it does not say. First of all………..Jesus was no even talking about himself as existing before his berth there , he was talking about the GLORY that Preexisted His earthly existence. THAT GLORY was preexistent and he already had that Glory with the Father before he was ever born or came into existence.
Gene,t8 is right about you – you are “The Great Pretender”.
You talk about “forcing text”, yet you are the one who is doing it with this nonsense.Jesus said that “HE” – the person, “HAD” glory “IN HIS GOD'S PRESENCE” “BEFORE THE CREATION OF THE WORLD”.
He did NOT say, “Glorify me with the “PREORDAINED GLORY” that you've had waiting for me since before the world”. He said HE HAD THAT GLORY AT THE SIDE OF GOD BEFORE THE WORLD WAS CREATED.
The only “forcing” going on here is yours – and your “forcing” doesn't even bring the scripture to a logical statement. It's nothing but gibberish by the time you're done “rearranging and explaining” it.
peace and love,
mikeGene:
Quote JA…………Your are changing words to fit you assumptions…………..first of all it say “THE WORD (WAS) GOD” I just moved my John 1:1 post that you've ignored to one of the John 1:1 threads. Please address it over there.
Gene:
Quote but what it appears you are saying Jesus and Moses was TRUE GOD. I might be wrong but that is what is appears you are saying.
How can you have read anything JA posted and somehow think that HE thinks Jesus is God? He argues against that trinity lie daily. mike
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 25 2010,04:29) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 25 2010,03:31) Mike……….The problem we are having here is i have answered these things many times and you simply do not accept those answers, and Keep saying i have not answered them,
Hi Gene,No……..you haven't. If I'm wrong, and I just missed your answers, then please forgive me and give a quick answer. I'll just repeat ONE of the questions, okay?
1. Can you tell me one thing you've EVER done in your entire lifetime to follow the teachings of Jesus that you couldn't have done if he pre-existed?
You said:
Quote MY answer was Jesus (NEVER SAID THE KINGDOM OF GOD WAS (IN) (THE PHARISEES), You saying that would be the (alternative) Not ME.
But what does the scripture say, Gene?Luke 17:20-21 NIV
20Once, having been asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, Jesus replied, “The kingdom of God does not come with your careful observation, 21nor will people say, 'Here it is,' or 'There it is,' because the kingdom of God is within you.”The NIV adds a footnote that says “or among you”. But let's work with the “within you”, since that's where your head is no matter how many other scriptures list the Kingdom of God as a physical place. If the word is correctly translated “within”, then Jesus most definitely says the word “within” DIRECTLY TO THE PHARISEES. Jesus replied TO THE PHARISEES WHO ASKED THE QUESTION, “the Kingdom of God is within YOU“.
So, if the word IS “within”, then Jesus was saying the Kingdom of God was “within” the Pharisees. I am not changing the words here, Gene. And unlike you, I'm not about to just imagine exact Biblical words “must have MEANT something other than what they said”. This is how you make scriptures fit into YOUR idea of what they should say. If the word “black” doesn't fit into YOUR doctrine, you simply “imagine”, that based on the context, the word “black” really means “white” in this verse. And you don't even care that changing it to “white” not only changes the meaning of God-inspired scripture just to suit YOUR wishes, but often times, your end result is a sentence that makes no logical sense whatsoever.
But in the case of Luke 17:21, we only have two choices. Either Jesus said the Kingdom of God was “within” the Pharisees, or Jesus said the Kingdom of God was “in the midst of” the Pharisees. Which makes more sense? Which seems more likely to be in line with scriptures as a whole?
peace and love,
mike
MIke……….Jesus was telling then that the KINGDOM of GOD is WITHIN A PERSON. It does not come with OBSERVATION> YOU cant see it because it is SPIRITUAL> What do you think it means when it says “THAT GOD MAY BE ALL AND (IN) YOU ALL”. don't you even realize that God was (IN) Jesus and therefore HIs Kingdom was being administered by that present of GOD (IN) HIM.? While He was on the earth. GOD Rules where his Presents is and he ruled (IN) Jesus, GOD was IN HIM. Therefore HIS KINGDOM was IN HIM. Even if you use your false understanding that the Kingdom of GOD was among them , Then HOW WAS IT AMONG THEM, The only way would be it was (IN) Jesus right . Even that should explain it to you that the kingdom of GOD comes without observation. Man i can not believe you cant understand that.Mike You said , “can you tell me one thing you've ever done in you entire lifetime to follow the teachings of Jesus that you couldn't have done it he pre-existed?” answer (NO).
NOW can you tell me One thing you couldn't have done if He had (NOT) Pree-existed. That would be the better question. IMO
But i can tell you how i relate with Jesus much better by understanding He was (EXACTLY) LIKE ME IN EVER WAY. I feel a sense of Closeness and attachment to him as a fellow Human being who had to go through just what i am going through and gave me answers to my exact same struggles as He had in this life. I Identify with him on a (PERSONAL) level that you can not because you have separated Him from you (exact) likeness. I see Jesus as one of us humans beings who made it into the kingdom of GOD the (SAME) way I Can BY the SAME WAY HE DID> I don;t give him advantages over me so i attach myself to GOD the FATHER the same way He did, because i see him as a (TRUE BROTHER OF MINE)> But you can't see him that way because you have separated Him from you own Identity as a fellow Human Being. A (TRUE) SON OF MAN.
Preexistences as well as Trinitarians are both in the same boat they are (SEPARATIST) AND THEY BOTH ARE ANTICHRISTS.
peace and love to you and yours………………………gene
Mikeboll64,
How can you compare one 'one like God' to 'one created by the one like God'
How can you say that one thing is earned superiority over another when you say the superior one created the 'inferior' one.
How could the 'inferior' one ever be called 'Mighty God' in the presence of him?
No, only if they were equal to start with, could he become superior to them, become the 'hero' among them, 'be better' than them.
And if he was their creator, why is he standing among them before the throne of God. He would be standing apart from them.And…Scriptures is not written for the 'English speaking world' alone. That is incredibly crass of you.
Where you say that Jesus created 'everything…' it is not speaking of the sentient creatures, the Angels, the animal, Mankind? Again, you mind is slipping…
To whom is the Animal Sacrifice made, to God or to Jesus? Where is the lifewhih is the blood, which is the spirit, to return to? Is it not God Almighty? Why not Jesus?Mike, in whose image is Mankind made? Jesus or God Almighty?
Are you becoming a trinitarian now? I've seen you sail close to that wind many times in your desparation to prove something, you err and stray into enemy territory.Mike, are we called, or to be called, Son's of Jesus? Are the Angels called Son's of Jesus? Do they have the Spirit of Jesus?
No.
We are to be 'Sons of God', they are 'Sons of God', they have the Spirit of God.So, if it was Jesus who created them…then what?
But if it was God who created them…what then?
Mike, you not thinking right…you have the wrong image in your thought.
Mike, map it out. Draw it out…write it down from end to end and then use Scriptures to validate eah step. You will come across anomalies, unresolvable anomalies. Mike, don't step over them, face the truth when you meet them and say to yourself, 'Ah, hmmm, yeah, ok, hmm…ok…' don't use 'frog dna' or 'charcoal' to fill in the missing links, that way leads to the 'dark side'. Look what happened to the dynasaurs in 'Jurassic Park', and 'Superman' and 'Darth Vader'.
We would have to start calling you, 'MikeVader, the SuperJurassic Dynasaur man' who messed up simple sctripture verses in a single failed leap of faith in wetNanny, over 65 millions years ago.Mikeboll64, JustAskin is not trying to lead you astray. JustAskin is showing you that you put to much faith in your debating, in finite fininicking with words beyond a need. Tweaselling, that gets you nowhere, except back where you started, if seldom ends there for you know not where the end is.
Has any of your debates ended…no. Why not?
Because, as easy as you try to prove that this word means this or that word means that, another uses your same 'proofs' to disprove you. What's the point?
Yes, you learnt something, but what value was it. You 'proved' it to yourself, yes, Thomas….and happier…are those who did not need to stress at the learning if it but believed from the start.Seriously, map out your belief, then match the cartesian coordinate points against the database of correct orientations and you will see where your points don't match up…don't force them…and yes, i do work on maps, too! and no, i'm not googling for the analogical text information.
Gene:
Quote MIke……….Jesus was telling then that the KINGDOM of GOD is WITHIN A PERSON.
Yes Gene, we all understand that is what you IMAGINE the scripture to be saying. But that is NOT what the scripture ACTUALLY SAYS, is it? The scripture has Jesus telling the Pharisees “within/among YOU”, not “within/among A PERSON”.Gene, just answer this: Where do YOU hope to spend eternity? I hope to spend it IN the physical Kingdom of God. While this Kingdom is “within you”, where will you physically be? What will your eyes see? What will your ears hear?
Gene:
Quote Mike You said , “can you tell me one thing you've ever done in you entire lifetime to follow the teachings of Jesus that you couldn't have done it he pre-existed?” answer (NO).
Thank you Gene……..it only took two months of asking. Now it should be clear to you that Jesus didn't have to be “EXACTLY LIKE US” in order for us to follow his teachings, right?Gene:
Quote NOW can you tell me One thing you couldn't have done if He had (NOT) Pree-existed. That would be the better question. IMO
NO! First time asked, first time answered. I have told all of you non-preexisters that I have no axe to grind here. I've told you all that whether or not Jesus pre-existed would not change one single thing about the way I follow his teachings. Unlike you, I'm not trying to fit Jesus into my “WISHES”…………I'm only believing what the scriptures teach.Gene:
Quote But i can tell you how i relate with Jesus much better by understanding He was (EXACTLY) LIKE ME IN EVER WAY.
And I have heard this same exact “reasoning” from you, Jodi Lee, Martian, barley and Kerwin. Unfortunately for all of you, God's will does NOT revolve around how your WISHES for a closer relationship with Jesus are better served.Gene:
Quote Preexistences as well as Trinitarians are both in the same boat they are (SEPARATIST) AND THEY BOTH ARE ANTICHRISTS.
No Gene, it is those who refuse to believe that Jesus CAME – as in “from somewhere else” – in the flesh that have the spirit of the antichrist. No one would say, “Gene Balthrop CAME in the flesh”, for you have never been anything other than flesh. The “CAME in the flesh” wording should be enough for you to be able to understand it Gene.I'll look for you in the “John 1:1-3” thread, okay?
peace and love,
mike
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