Preexistence

[terraricca]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 23 2010,16:55)

EDJ………mike and others are the ones saying Flesh and Blood can not enter into the Kingdom of . Here is another example lets say the Physical world can not enter the kingdom of GOD either , does that mean the kingdom of God can not enter into the world too. Get it the kingdom of God can enter into a Flesh and blood person, but a flesh and blood Person can not enter into it. Why because the kingdom of GOD is SPIRIT (intellect) AND must come into us physical beings Just as it did Jesus. A kingdom is where someone rules and if God rules in your hear and mind then His Kingdom is within you. Mike has it all wrong by trying to say Jesus meant the Kingdom of GOD was among them , Jesus said the kingdom of God comes without (OBSERVATION), because the kingdom of GOD is Spiritual Kingdom and is Within a person Just as it was (IN) Jesus a MAN who was FLESH and BLOOD too.  It can also be in us the same way as it was in Jesus in our minds which are in our bodies of flesh and blood. peace and love……………………………gene

gene

you have many many many roads to cancel out before you will find the small door that lead s to the kingdom

Pierre

[GeneBalthrop]

Terricca……….AS long as it is not the door you have chosen, which is the wide road of Christendom and it's Antichrist false teachings of preexistences Brought in by the false teachings of the Trinitarians, Both preexistence and trinitarians are in the same boat they both separate Jesus' exact identity with us. They both destory the Work of GOD (IN) Mankind they both make Jesus different then us and create this middle created being that is different then we are. They both drive a wedge between Jesus and Us and GODS Work in Man. Both Trinitarians and Preexistences are blind guides of the blind and have both fallen into a ditch. Don't think you preexistences are any different or better off then your Trinitarians brothers, You both create a MORPHED Being, One says Jesus was a GOD, the other say Jesus was a demigod or a super angel. But both separate Jesus from our likeness and make Jesus something other then a real and Pure Human being. Both are of the SPIRIT (intellect) of the Antichrist.

gene

gene

[Baker]

Gene  Again and again you put the preexisting and the trinitarian together, which is so wrong… The trinity has nothing to do whether Jesus was in Heaven with His Father before the world was, or not.  What you are doing is denying those plain Scriptures that Mike and some including I,have given to you and others who do not want to believe in it, for whatever reason it is.  Even by Jesus own words that He was in Heaven with His Father before the world was.  He says so and I believe Him rather then any man…..

Jhn 17:5   And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.  
and

Jhn 6:38   For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.  

Irene.

[Ed J]

Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 23 2010,09:06)

edj you say;;Hi Terraricca, Was I not clear enough for you? Doing God's will is what a Christian is; and Christians have a wholesome tongue! God bless ed j (Joshua 22:34) Doing God's will is what a Christian is; wrong ;it is what Christians DO,  there is a difference ,i hope you understand the difference? Pierre

Hi Terraricca,

Please do explain the difference for us all at h-net!

God bless
ed j (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Ed J]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 23 2010,09:45)

Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 23 2010,06:09) Hi Gene, Please do explain these verses for us all here at h-net! How does your belief system square with what Luke 17:21 says? Luke 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you. Also how does your belief system square with Romans 8:9? Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. Witnessing to a worldwide audience in behalf of YHVH! יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā  hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm! Ed J (Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 49:16 / Isaiah 60:14) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org (Ecl.9:12-16) EDJ………..(1)Explain what i am in full agreement with what you have quoted , (2)it Ike and others who are not, not me., wake up man. (3)I know the kingdom of GOD is Spiritual and comes without observation and is within you, that is my stand all along. I have no idea what you are talking about>

Hi Gene,

1) That is what I was asking you to explain.
2) WHAT? Speak English man?
3) Thank You!

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 22 2010,00:43)

Mike…………You are  in error if you think the kingdom of GOD is not withing a person…………………gene

I stand corrected; sor

Your brother in
Christ, Jesus!
Ed J (Romans 8:1)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[terraricca]

Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 23 2010,21:06)

Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 23 2010,09:06) edj you say;;Hi Terraricca, Was I not clear enough for you? Doing God's will is what a Christian is; and Christians have a wholesome tongue! God bless ed j (Joshua 22:34) Doing God's will is what a Christian is; wrong ;it is what Christians DO,  there is a difference ,i hope you understand the difference? Pierre Hi Terraricca, Please do explain the difference for us all at h-net! God bless ed j (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

edj

look in your numbers

Pierre

[Ed J]

Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 23 2010,16:09)

Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 23 2010,21:06) Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 23 2010,09:06) edj you say;;Hi Terraricca, Was I not clear enough for you? Doing God's will is what a Christian is; and Christians have a wholesome tongue! God bless ed j (Joshua 22:34) Doing God's will is what a Christian is; wrong ;it is what Christians DO,  there is a difference ,i hope you understand the difference? Pierre Hi Terraricca, Please do explain the difference for us all at h-net! God bless ed j (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org edj look in your numbers Pierre

Hi Terraricca,

I guess you admit then that there is no difference; huh?

ed j (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[terraricca]

Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 23 2010,23:17)

Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 23 2010,16:09) Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 23 2010,21:06) Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 23 2010,09:06) edj you say;;Hi Terraricca, Was I not clear enough for you? Doing God's will is what a Christian is; and Christians have a wholesome tongue! God bless ed j (Joshua 22:34) Doing God's will is what a Christian is; wrong ;it is what Christians DO,  there is a difference ,i hope you understand the difference? Pierre Hi Terraricca, Please do explain the difference for us all at h-net! God bless ed j (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org edj look in your numbers Pierre Hi Terraricca, I guess you admit then that there is no difference; huh? ed j (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

edj

true believers will not ask that question they know

Pierre

[Ed J]

Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 23 2010,19:05)

Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 23 2010,23:17) Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 23 2010,16:09) Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 23 2010,21:06) Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 23 2010,09:06) edj you say;;Hi Terraricca, Was I not clear enough for you? Doing God's will is what a Christian is; and Christians have a wholesome tongue! God bless ed j (Joshua 22:34) Doing God's will is what a Christian is; wrong ;it is what Christians DO,  there is a difference ,i hope you understand the difference? Pierre Hi Terraricca, Please do explain the difference for us all at h-net! God bless ed j (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org edj look in your numbers Pierre Hi Terraricca, I guess you admit then that there is no difference; huh? ed j (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org edj true believers will not ask that question they know Pierre

Hi Terraricca,

Thanks so much for that information!
It has been great conversing with you.
Keep up God's Good work. You certianly
should have many rewards waiting for you.

God bless
ed j
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[GeneBalthrop]

Quote (Baker @ Oct. 23 2010,12:20)

Gene  Again and again you put the preexisting and the trinitarian together, which is so wrong… The trinity has nothing to do whether Jesus was in Heaven with His Father before the world was, or not.  What you are doing is denying those plain Scriptures that Mike and some including I,have given to you and others who do not want to believe in it, for whatever reason it is.  Even by Jesus own words that He was in Heaven with His Father before the world was.  He says so and I believe Him rather then any man….. Jhn 17:5   And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.   and Jhn 6:38   For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.   Irene.

Irene……..And i have told you, your are forcing the text to say what in fact it does not say.

First of all………..Jesus was no even talking about himself as existing before his berth there , he was talking about the GLORY that Preexisted His earthly existence. THAT GLORY was preexistent and he already had that Glory with the Father before he was ever born or came into existence. How is it you can understand that, with Cyrus who was given Glory 160 years before he was ever born, and Jeremiah, before he was born and John the Baptist before he was Born , but you can't understand that it also applied to Jesus.

Your are so intent on having your way without providing any (REAL) Proof that Jesus was talking about His Existence before his berth as a BEING of some kind , which you or no one else for that matter has no idea what the being was for that matter.

You say Trinitarians and Preexistences are not alike and that is also false , Gnostic's who became known as Trinitarians were the first to believe in the Preexistence of Jesus, they were the first to believe He created all the world and everything in it , they were the first to believe he was a divine Being , they were the first to (SEPARATE) JESUS FROM OUR EXACT IDENTITY. So don't given me this PREEXISTENCES and TRINITARIANS are any different , the only difference is that they believe He is a GOD and you Believe he is some kind of demigod, or angel , but both you and they believe He was MORPHED into a Human Being from a preexistent state.

So lets not try to deny your almost exact same views , that is like saying the Catholic Church and the Protestant Churches are not the same Maybe a couple of things are different but overall they are the same, both keep the same days and believe in the same things, they are in the same boat, even as the Preexistences and Trinitarians are.

Trinitarians and Preexistences teach the same things they both are Antichrists and are (SEPARATIST), they both move Jesus away from our (EXACT) identity. It is sad to me you people can not see or understand that. IMO

peace and love to you and Georg…………………….gene

[GeneBalthrop]

Irene………..As far as Jesus coming down from Heaven, So did John the Baptist, so did Jeremiah, so did king Cyrus. These were all preplanned Individuals who GOD (FOREORDAINED) before they ever were born , Now is God in heaven (YES) and so we can also say these other came down from heaven also right, after all God in heaven created and sent them all. How is it you can except that and Not the same with Jesus, PETER SAID Jesus was (FOREORDAINED) BUT was Manifested (brought into existence)(IN OUR TIME)> what is so hard to understand about that?. God was (NOT) working with Angels or using a preexistent Angel morphed and disguised as a Human being to work with mankind, He was using a 100% pure foreordained human being who was A SON OF MAN , perfected and taught by Him to total obedience (BY) the things He suffered and raised him from the dead unto eternal life. This MAN from MAN is and (EXACT) example of what GOD the FATHER can DO in all man kind. He is our Brother and we are His brothers in every way . When we grow by the (same) Spirit that perfect HIM into the full measure of the stature of Christ Jesus we will also become a Heir and JOINT HEIRS with HIM in HIS KINGDOM on EARTH at his return. Blessed are all who have this hope in them.

Irene you and others need to come (ALL THE WAY OUT OF THOSE FALSE TEACHINGS) not part of the way our. IMO

peace and love…………………………gene

[Baker]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 24 2010,02:01)

Quote (Baker @ Oct. 23 2010,12:20) Gene  Again and again you put the preexisting and the trinitarian together, which is so wrong… The trinity has nothing to do whether Jesus was in Heaven with His Father before the world was, or not.  What you are doing is denying those plain Scriptures that Mike and some including I,have given to you and others who do not want to believe in it, for whatever reason it is.  Even by Jesus own words that He was in Heaven with His Father before the world was.  He says so and I believe Him rather then any man….. Jhn 17:5   And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.   and Jhn 6:38   For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.   Irene. Irene……..And i have told you, your are forcing the text to say what in fact it does not say. First of all………..Jesus was no even talking about himself as existing before his berth there , he was talking about the GLORY that Preexisted His earthly existence. THAT GLORY was preexistent and he already had that Glory with the Father before he was ever born or came into existence. How is it you can understand that, with Cyrus who was given Glory 160 years before he was ever born, and Jeremiah, before he was born and John the Baptist before he was Born , but you can't understand that it also applied to Jesus. Your are so intent on having your way without providing any (REAL) Proof that Jesus was talking about His Existence before his berth as a BEING of some kind , which you or no one else for that matter has no idea what the being was for that matter. You say Trinitarians and Preexistences are not alike and that is also false , Gnostic's who became known as Trinitarians were the first to believe in the Preexistence of Jesus, they were the first to believe He created all the world and everything in it , they were the first to believe he was a divine Being , they were the first to (SEPARATE) JESUS FROM OUR EXACT IDENTITY. So don't given me this PREEXISTENCES and  TRINITARIANS are any different , the only difference is that they believe He is a GOD and you Believe he is some kind of demigod, or angel , but both you and they believe He was MORPHED into a Human Being from a preexistent state. So lets not try to deny your almost exact same views , that is like saying the Catholic Church and the Protestant Churches are not the same Maybe a couple of things are different but overall they are the same, both keep the same days and believe in the same things, they are in the same boat, even as the Preexistences and Trinitarians are. Trinitarians and Preexistences teach the same things they both are Antichrists and are (SEPARATIST), they both move Jesus away from our (EXACT) identity.  It is sad to me you people can not see or understand that. IMO peace and love to you and Georg…………………….gene

Gene, no I am not forcing any Scriptures, at all, that is your imagination talking. No one has seen the Father or heard His voice, but He who came from there, Jesus Christ. Those Scriptures are plainly written a child could understand that. To connect the preexisting and trinity is ridiculous to say the least. So t8, JustAskiin are all Anti_christ. Get a life. You are calling Jesus a liar, because scriptures say by Jesus own words, that He was in Heaven before the world was……Your denial of Scriptures make you what you claim of others……and to you too I will say good bye, your kind are not to put Scriptures to….Sorry Mr. but the Catholic Church does not teach the preexisting at all, I should know what I taught our Children…. sorry to say…… wrong over 100%……. Irene

[JustAskin]

Gene,

Please can you answer these questions:

1) What does it mean that the first man was [flesh] from the earth, and the second man is [spirit] from heaven

2) And Jesus said, 'I came down from Heaven, not to do my will, but the will of Him who sent me'?

In 1) it states that the second man is Spirit…just as we state…'he was Spirit before he was man'.

In 2) Jesus states that he was 'sent' (Because he was the only one who was righteous enough to be made into the sacrifice)
So, if he was 'sent' then he must have been in existent, otherwise why does Jesus not say, 'I was created/born to do not my will but the will of Him who created me?

[Proclaimer]

How do you get to NETNotes?

[Lightenup]

t8-
Great…an easy question

Go here and see the bottom of the page. Each individual verse you look up will have the Greek with the Strong's definitions and the OT verses have the LXX with the Greek.

http://net.bible.org/bible.php

[Proclaimer]

Cool. Might add it to the homepage.

[JustAskin]

People,

Be cautious of too much reliance on Website Doctrine. Use as reference but not belief.

Everything that is required to understand the Scriptures – is in the Scriptures.
[moderator]

[mikeboll64]

Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 22 2010,16:25)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 22 2010,22:11) Quote (Baker @ Oct. 21 2010,23:27) Mike!  I want to say something to you about what you said to shimmer about what the Kingdom of God will be after the Millennium.  When God will come down with the New Jerusalem.  God always has been a Spirit Being and divine.  So is Jesus.  I don't read in Rev. that He will be any differed then what He is now.   There will be Humans  then, but a multitude of Spirit Beings that will stand in front of God's Throne that will worship Him day and night…..Can you show me a Scripture that says that Almighty God will walk amongst Human Men. Hi Irene, This is how I come to my understanding: Rev 21:2-3 NIV 2 I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Now the dwelling of God is with men, and he will live with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. 21:3 says God will dwell with mankind. Rev 22:3-4 NIV 3 No longer will there be any curse. The throne of God and of the Lamb will be in the city, and his servants will serve him. 4 They will see his face, and his name will be on their foreheads. I assume these “servants” who will “see God's face” are mankind, because 21:24 mentions the “nations” and “kings of the EARTH” being in New Jerusalem. Am I wrong?  Have I maybe missed something? peace and love, mike hi Mike Rev 21:1 I saw a new heaven and a new earth. The first heaven and the first earth were completely gone. There was no longer any sea. Rev 21:2 I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem. It was coming down out of heaven from God. It was prepared like a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. Rev 21:3 I heard a loud voice from the throne. It said, “Now God makes his home with people. He will live with them. They will be his people. And God himself will be with them and be their God. Rev 21:4 He will wipe away every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or sadness. There will be no more crying or pain. Things are no longer the way they used to be.” Rev 21:5 He who was sitting on the throne said, “I am making everything new!” Then he said, “Write this down. You can trust these words. They are true.” Rev 21:6 He said to me, “It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last. I am the Beginning and the End. Anyone who is thirsty may drink from the spring of the water of life. It does’t cost anything! Rev 21:7 Anyone who overcomes will receive all this from me. I will be his God, and he will be my child what does it means;;Now God makes his home with people. He will live with them. They will be his people. And God himself will be with them and be their God. would it mean that now God can be seen by men ?no,it is the 'heavenly Jerusalem who comes down from God who will be God representation to men. all the people now transformed to the will of God trough Christ are the ones now living,so they are rightfully called the children of God,same spirit , and because they have chosen to do Gods will then that God is there God, the dwelling be the Heavenly Jerusalem, just like God was dwelling in Salomon temple. Pierre

That's not how I read it Pierre,

How do you answer the blue scriptures in my post?

mike

[mikeboll64]

Gene:

Quote

Mike……….You are not being truthful with the word there as being among you , look it up in the GREEK text and it is written as (IN) YOU

Okay Gene…….have it your way.  Now all you have to do is explain to us why Jesus would say the Kingdom of God was IN the Pharisees who were seeking to kill the Son of God.  Because Jesus didn't say the Kingdom of God is “in certain ones of us”, did he?  No, he point blank said TO THE PHARISEES that the Kingdom of God is IN YOU.

Gene:

Quote

What do you think it means that the Kingdom of GOD come without (OBSERVATION)

And what do YOU make of all the scriptures that speak of people “entering” or “going in” or “sharing a feast IN” or “being thrown out of” the Kingdom of God?

And why did you post volumes of rhetoric, but not answer any of my DIRECT questions DIRECTLY?  Maybe you missed them………here they are again:

1.  Why won't you answer to all the “Kingdom of God” scriptures I posted?  
2.  Why won't you answer to the “John 1:1” post I made for you?
3.  Why won't you tell me one thing you've ever done in your entire life to follow the teachings of Jesus that you couldn't have done if he pre-existed?
4.  Why won't you tell me how someone who already is a human being can be made in the likeness of a human being?
5.  Why don't you tell me who the “Word” that became flesh and had the glory of an only begotten son was if it wasn't Jesus?

peace and love,
mike

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Baker @ Oct. 23 2010,04:19)

Hi Mike!  I have been thinking a lot today.  This is the way I understand what will be in the New Earth and the New Heaven.  Since flesh and blood cannot enter in, only those that are Spirit Beings will be able to do so….. Almighty God is and was always a Spirit Being and divine.  I also believe that since they are divine they are not able to change.  I have no Scripture for that, but to me it makes sense.   I also had asked Georg who will be teaching all truths to those who are Human, He thinks it is the Priests who will do so…. Peace and Love Irene

Hi Irene,

Maybe I posted too soon to Pierre on this subject, because you are correct that flesh and blood cannot enter.  And Jesus is still called a “man”, although Paul says he has be given back his “spiritual” body.

I better back up and do some thinking and praying on this one before I spout off again.  

Thank God for you and Pierre,

mike

[Author]

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