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Quote (shimmer @ Oct. 19 2010,20:17) See, there is an earthly body and a spiritual body, but both are bodies, And I found that with just scripture and no-one elses influence,
Hi Shimmer,Just scripture, huh? Atta girl!
I don't argue about “bodies”, I argue that the “FLESH body” cannot inherit God's Kingdom, so therefore the body Jesus now has cannot be “flesh”.
I believe all spiritual beings have “bodies” Shimmer. Otherwise, what would separate one from the other? And if God didn't have a “body” of some sort, then there would be no barrier between what IS God, and what is not.
peace and love,
mikeQuote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 20 2010,00:55) As it were some lived over 900 years in those bodies. But none over a thousand years, why because a thousand years is as a day with God and a day is as a thousand years and remember GOD said “IN THE (DAY) YOU EAT OF IT YOU SHALL DIES. And all did dies within a day or thousand year period .
Great observation Gene! I never caught that before.Thanks,
mikeQuote (JustAskin @ Oct. 20 2010,17:26) Terra,
Whazarp bro, you having a bud?
Whatzatyasaying?
True dat, true dat.
JAyea i can see my mistake;yes she does well,wen you truth be accepted like she does
it should have been;;yes she does well,wen you see truth be accepted like she does.
sorry boy ,things happen to those who do something,
Pierre
Quote (shimmer @ Oct. 19 2010,22:11) ” Being asked by the Pharisees when the Kingdom of God would come, he answered them, “The Kingdom of God doesn't come with observation; neither will they say, 'Look, here!' or, 'Look, there!' for behold, the Kingdom of God is within you.”
Hi Shimmer,GREAT use of scriptures! I wish all here would defend their beliefs the exact same way you just did!
There are one or two scriptures that are in line with the one you quoted above. But contrast those couple of scriptures with the majority:
Matthew 19:24 NIV
Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.”Matthew 21:32 NIV
Jesus said to them, “I tell you the truth, the tax collectors and the prostitutes are entering the kingdom of God ahead of you.Mark 9:1 NIV
And he said to them, “I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the kingdom of God come with power.”Mark 9:47
And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell,Mark 14:25 NIV
“I tell you the truth, I will not drink again of the fruit of the vine until that day when I drink it anew in the kingdom of God.”Mark 15:43 NIV
Joseph of Arimathea, a prominent member of the Council, who was himself waiting for the kingdom of God, went boldly to Pilate and asked for Jesus' body.Luke 7:28 NIV
I tell you, among those born of women there is no one greater than John; yet the one who is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he.”Luke 13:28 NIV
“There will be weeping there, and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but you yourselves thrown out.Luke 13:29 NIV
People will come from east and west and north and south, and will take their places at the feast in the kingdom of God.Acts 14:22
strengthening the disciples and encouraging them to remain true to the faith. “We must go through many hardships to enter the kingdom of God,” they said.1 Corinthians 15:50
I declare to you, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.Jesus spoke many parables about what the Kingdom of God is like. And the best that I come up with is that God's Kingdom does start as a feeling or “knowing” inside of certain ones of us as we are being slowly filled with Holy Spirit. That is the “mustard seed” parable of Luke 13 as I see it. Jesus planted the seed, and the Kingdom – or rather “knowledge of and belief in the Kingdom” – grows inside of us.
To me it's like someone asking Jesus and his disciples, “Where is your church?” And, pointing at his disciples, Jesus answered, “It's not a physical building, but is 'in your midst.'”
Anyway, the word “within” in the verse you quoted is often translated as “among”, or “in your midst” – for the Greek word used could mean either thought. This is what NETNotes says about it:
Luke 17:21 NET
nor will they say, ‘Look, here it is!’ or ‘There!’ For indeed, the kingdom of God is in your midst.”Luk 17:21 Footnote #2
This is a far better translation than “in you.” Jesus would never tell the hostile Pharisees that the kingdom was inside them. The reference is to Jesus present in their midst. He brings the kingdom. Another possible translation would be “in your grasp.” For further discussion and options, see D. L. Bock, Luke (BECNT), 2:1414-19.http://net.bible.org/verse.php?book=Luk&chapter=17&verse=21
I've argued this same point with Gene before. Jesus wouldn't say the Kingdom was “within” the Pharisees who were looking for a way to kill him, would he? And it does seem clear from many OT and NT scriptures that the “Kingdom of God” is an actual place we all want to get to.
I remember David posting some great stuff about it a while back, but I don't remember the name of the thread.
peace and love,
mikeEd, Gene, Irene, Terrarica, JustAskin and Mike, thankyou for the encouragment. Sorry if I missed anyone, it's late.
Quote (Baker @ Oct. 20 2010,07:07) shimmer! I now understand what it means in Luke 17 there is also another Scripture in
Jhn 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.That is spiritual speaking, and when Jesus comes the Kingdom will come, with His Saints and no Human being will be able to see Him. He is as bright as the sun, it would blind a person. Just like it blinded Paul….
Also in
Jhn 14:19 ¶ Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.
Christ is now divine and will no longer die…..and the world will not be able to see Him, He is as bright as the sun….
Peace and Love Irene
Irene, years ago we were taught there would be a false return of Jesus, (Adventist teaching) and this fake return would be the world deciever, so I prayed and asked – How will we know the real from the fake – I was shown the key is there would no need to question the real return, because all will be destroyed, all except Gods loved. And it had something to do with the sun rising. After I found verses like these,2nd Peter 3
“But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will be dissolved with fervent heat, and the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up. Therefore since all these things will be destroyed like this, what kind of people ought you to be in holy living and godliness, looking for and earnestly desiring the coming of the day of God, which will cause the burning heavens to be dissolved, and the elements will melt with fervent heat?The day of the Lord, A day is 24 hours, what is the hottest thing which could burn the earth ?
Matthew 24
“Then if any man tells you, 'Behold, here is the Christ,' or, 'There,' don't believe it. For there will arise false christs, and false prophets, and they will show great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the chosen ones. “Behold, I have told you beforehand. If therefore they tell you, 'Behold, he is in the wilderness,' don't go out; 'Behold, he is in the inner rooms,' don't believe it. For as the lightning flashes from the east, and is seen even to the west, so will be the coming (presence) of the Son of Man. For wherever the carcass is, there is where the vultures gather together.What comes from the East and lights up the dark sky every morning ?
Malachi 4;2
For, behold, the day comes, it burns as a furnace; and all the proud, and all who work wickedness, will be stubble; and the day that comes will burn them up,” says Yahweh of Armies, “that it shall leave them neither root nor branch. But to you who fear my name shall the sun of righteousness arise with healing in its wings. You will go out, and leap like calves of the stall. You shall tread down the wicked; for they will be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I make,” says Yahweh of Armies.Then theres the story in Daniel 3, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego who refused to worship any other God but YHWH. And were thrown into the firey furnice..
“Therefore because the king's commandment was urgent, and the furnace exceeding hot, the flame of the fire killed those men who took up Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego. These three men, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, fell down bound into the midst of the burning fiery furnace. Then Nebuchadnezzar the king was astonished, and rose up in haste: he spoke and said to his counselors, Didn't we cast three men bound into the midst of the fire? They answered the king, True, O king. He answered, Look, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they are unharmed; and the aspect of the fourth is like a son of the gods. Then Nebuchadnezzar came near to the mouth of the burning fiery furnace: he spoke and said, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, you servants of the Most High God, come forth, and come here. Then Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego came forth out of the midst of the fire. The satraps, the deputies, and the governors, and the king's counselors, being gathered together, saw these men, that the fire had no power on their bodies, nor was the hair of their head singed, neither were their pants changed, nor had the smell of fire passed on them. Nebuchadnezzar spoke and said, Blessed be the God of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, who has sent his angel, and delivered his servants who trusted in him, and have changed the king's word, and have yielded their bodies, that they might not serve nor worship any god, except their own God.”
Just my thoughts.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 19 2010,22:57) Quote (t8 @ Oct. 19 2010,20:32) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 19 2010,01:03) Shimmer…………Absolutely right, many say Jesus is coming back as a (Spirit Being) and that simply is not true. The Gnostic's had the same Ideology, they believed Jesus was really a Spirit being disguised as a man but really was a God , they believe He came from the Pelora of Gods and only appeared as a Man in the flesh but was really a God who left the Polera to come to earth and straighten everything out. They were the First to separate Jesus from our (EXACT) Identity and all other forms of separation arises through their vain Philosophies and that was what Paul and John were constantly addressing, it was these that crept in and left the fundamental teaching of the true Church they were the starters of the Apostate Churches which eventually took over complete Christianity as it is today> Behind all this Preexistence and Trinity doctrines operates this basic teaching s and that is the (SEPARATION) of Jesus from our (EXACT) Identity, and that is the Spirit (intellect) of Antichrist John was talking about. As you study and look into it more you will see what i am talking about. Incorporate into your studies 2 Ths 2, and you will see how it all fits into those false teachings that Change the true IMAGE of Jesus into the Image of the MAN OF SIN, This is (THE LIE) that Jesus will Himself Abolish when He returns. I am glad you are studying for yourself Shimmer. peace and love to you and yours…………………………………gene
OK, so you are waiting for a man in the desert or a man to appear in another place.Believers who will not receive a lie will hold onto the following advice because they will not be expecting a mere man to appear:
“So if anyone tells you, 'There he is, out in the desert,' do not go out; or, 'Here he is, in the inner rooms,' do not believe it.
Rather they will see the son of man coming in the clouds in great glory.
Matthew 24:30
“At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory.
T8……….NO i am waiting for Jesus my brother and Lord to return in the Clouds with great glory as a MAN Just as He left. I have no idea what you are talking about with the Desert thing , where did i ever say that? Drawing straws to try to discredit me is all i can see you doing there. Jesus plainly said , when the SON OF (MAN) returns will he find Faith on the earth. Now are you saying a Son of MAN will not return, your argument is with Jesus not Me. IMOpeace and love…………………………..gene
Hi Gene,Men don't float in clouds in the sky! Did you ever consider Hebrews 12:1, to understand what clouds really are?
Heb.12:1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses,
let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us,
and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 20 2010,12:05) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 20 2010,00:55) As it were some lived over 900 years in those bodies. But none over a thousand years, why because a thousand years is as a day with God and a day is as a thousand years and remember GOD said “IN THE (DAY) YOU EAT OF IT YOU SHALL DIES. And all did dies within a day or thousand year period .
Great observation Gene! I never caught that before.Thanks,
mike
Hi Gene,I have told that to BD in the skeptics threads, but he doesn't believe it!
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgEDJ………..Some don't Walk on water , but Jesus and Peter did, some don't vanish but Jesus and Phillip did, some don't go up into the heavens in a whirlwind but Elijah did, some cant kill a thousand with the jaw bone of and ass, but Samson did , some can't be thrown into a fiery furnace and come out without even a hair being singed but Ashac , Meshac and Abigo did, All things are possible with GOD.
peace and love……………………………..gene
Hi Gene,
Are you saying that you believe Jesus is going to float in the sky on clouds?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 20 2010,13:02) I've argued this same point with Gene before. Jesus wouldn't say the Kingdom was “within” the Pharisees who were looking for a way to kill him, would he? And it does seem clear from many OT and NT scriptures that the “Kingdom of God” is an actual place we all want to get to.
Mike………As i told you before Jesus was (NOT) saying the Kingdom of GOD was (IN) (the) Pharisees , He was (DESCRIBING) Where the kingdom of GOD exists. It is within the person who (HAS IT)>His disciples said to him, when will the kingdom come? Jesus said, “It will not come by waiting for it, it will not be a matter of saying here it is or there it is, Rather, the Kingdom of the Father is spread out upon the earth, and men do not see it.
Jesus Said, “The kingdom of the Father is like a certain Women . She took a little leaven, concealed it in some dough and made it into large loves. Let him who has ears Hear”.
Quotes from the Gospel of Thomas
peace and love……………………..gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 20 2010,23:42) EDJ………..Some don't Walk on water , but Jesus and Peter did, some don't vanish but Jesus and Phillip did, some don't go up into the heavens in a whirlwind but Elijah did, some cant kill a thousand with the jaw bone of and ass, but Samson did , some can't be thrown into a fiery furnace and come out without even a hair being singed but Ashac , Meshac and Abigo did, All things are possible with GOD. peace and love……………………………..gene
I agree Gene.Ed, clouds means clouds, it doesnt mean anything else ? Otherwise you could make anything mean whatever you want it to mean.
Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 21 2010,00:02) Hi Gene,
Are you saying that you believe Jesus is going to float in the sky on clouds?Ed,
“They shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.” Matthew 24: 30
“Behold, he is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, including those who pierced him. All the tribes of the earth will mourn over him. Even so, Amen.” Revelation 1:7
Quote (shimmer @ Oct. 20 2010,23:36) Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 21 2010,00:02) Hi Gene,
Are you saying that you believe Jesus is going to float in the sky on clouds?Ed,
“They shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.” Matthew 24: 30
“Behold, he is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, including those who pierced him. All the tribes of the earth will mourn over him. Even so, Amen.” Revelation 1:7
Shimmer ………..Amen you have it right, We are looking for the Appearing of our Lord and Brother Jesus Christ.peace and love………………………..gene
Gene, i'm getting confused with Jesus return now, what I saw years ago, and what scripture says, and what you say which I believe.
Quote (shimmer @ Oct. 20 2010,23:36) Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 21 2010,00:02) Hi Gene,
Are you saying that you believe Jesus is going to float in the sky on clouds?Ed,
“They shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.” Matthew 24: 30
“Behold, he is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, including those who pierced him. All the tribes of the earth will mourn over him. Even so, Amen.” Revelation 1:7
shimmer!Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
I have to ask you, do you really believe that a flesh body can see Jesus in all of His power and great glory? Flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God.
Jhn 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
That is what Jesus was and that is what Jesus is now. And that is how Jesus will return. After all is done and He will do what it says in Rev. 19:13-16 we will have a New Earth and a New Heaven. The old will be gone…..God will come to Earth in the New Jerusalem. And God Himself will dwell with men.
To those who are Spirit Beings like the Saints and the Spirit Beings that stand in front of God's Throne inRev 7:9 ¶ After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
Rev 7:10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.
Rev 7:11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and [about] the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,
Rev 7:12 Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, [be] unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.
Rev 7:13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
Rev 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
Rev 7:15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.
The meek will inherit the Earth and will be flesh……That is why there is the Tree of Life…….. They will eat from that Tree and live forever…..
I like to believe that we are in the group which stand before the Throne of God and worship Him day and night….. We are under Christ blood and is washing us clean…..
Peace and Love Irene
Quote (shimmer @ Oct. 20 2010,23:18) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 20 2010,23:42) EDJ………..Some don't Walk on water , but Jesus and Peter did, some don't vanish but Jesus and Phillip did, some don't go up into the heavens in a whirlwind but Elijah did, some cant kill a thousand with the jaw bone of and ass, but Samson did , some can't be thrown into a fiery furnace and come out without even a hair being singed but Ashac , Meshac and Abigo did, All things are possible with GOD. peace and love……………………………..gene
I agree Gene.Ed, clouds means clouds, it doesnt mean anything else ? Otherwise you could make anything mean whatever you want it to mean.
Hi Shimmer,What kind of clouds do these mean?
Hebrews 12:1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses,
let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us,
and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,What kind of clouds do these mean?
Prov:16:15: In the light of the king's countenance is life; and his favour is as a cloud of the latter rain.
Perhaps you need to do word studies a bit more; huh?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Baker @ Oct. 20 2010,10:37) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 20 2010,07:04) Irene………….Jesus is not brighter then the Sun and no scripture say that either, scripture say plainly the the earth world will see Him When he returns. Mat 24:30……> And then shall appear the sign of the SON OF MAN in the heavens: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall (SEE) (THE SON OF MAN) coming in the clouds of heaven (just as he left) with Power and Great Glory.
Now Irene, does that sound like we will not be able to (SEE) Him? You have allowed the false teaching of Preexistence to cause you to completely separate Jesus from Yourself and others to IMO. It has clouded you view of Jesus, as it has many others to Irene IMO. Irene that is exactly my point in all this Trinitarian and Preexistence stuff , it only serves to separate us from Jesus not bond us to Him because it makes him different then we are. Do you follow what i am trying to say here. Jesus did not come as a human being to be separated from Us but to be binded with us, that preexistence teaching does separate Him from us just like the Trinitarian teaching doe also.
peace and love to you and Georg……………….gene
Gene! You are quoting a Scripture that tells you that Christ will come in all His glory what He received in Heaven, aftrer He died and was resurrected.Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
This is what the Blue Letter Bible says which is the KJV of the Bible. I copy abnd paste Scrioptures from there.
He will come in the cloud, why do you think that it says in the cloud. Nobody can look at Him because of His Glory…….He has a Gorified Body now and will never be anything else ever again…..Only those that are also Spirit Beings, the Saints that died for Christ in the first three centuries will be able to see Him…..What do you perceive to be His Glory?
?? Not a Human Being, that is for certain….and it does not say like He left either, those are your words and not the Bibles. Rev. 19:13-16 will tell us how He will come to do….Rev 19:13 And he [was] clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
Rev 19:14 And the armies [which were] in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
Rev 19:16 And he hath on [his] vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
.Rev 1:16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance [was] as the sun shineth in his strength.
That is what Jesus will come back as…….
Gene again and again you have to become personal, no matter what. Why is that so important to you to do? I never again after leaving the Catholkic Church believed in the trinity and you just want to close your mind about what Jesus was before He became a man, The Son of God, He never just was a mere man. He knew where He came from, Scriptures tell me so…which you want to deny……You re dead wrong….,..
Peace Irene
Irene………….Act 1: 1o-11…….And while they looked steadfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold two men stood by them in white apparel; 11….> Which also said, you men of Galilee, why stand you gazing up into heaven? This (SAME) Jesus which is taken up from you into heaven, shall (SO) COME in (LIKE MANNER) as you seen him go into heaven.Where does it say no man can see him because of His brightness ever again. Irene you add a lot to scriptures that are not written in them. When Jesus comes back to earth He will set up his kingdom on earth which is the extension of King Davids Kingdom .
He said he would grant those who overcome to sit in his kingdom as he overcame and is sit down with the Father in HIS Kingdom. Jesus Has recieved a Kingdom from the FATHER and will set it up on the earth and at the end of the thousand years He will turn it over to the Father , It will be a Physical Kingdom on earth, he will rule over it as a PHYSICAL HUMAN BEING , but the Kingdom of GOD is not that kingdom because GOD Kingdom rules within us and is not visible as the Kingdom Jesus is going to set up on earth at his returns. At the end of the thousand years Jesus will turn over (HIS) Kingdom over to GOD the FATHER and then GOD'S Kingdom will be ALL and (IN) ALL> The kingdom of GOD is not the same as the Kingdom of Jesus recieved through King David. The Kingdom of GOD comes not with observation but is Within a person. Think about it.
peace and love to you and Georg…………………….gene
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