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Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 19 2010,13:13) Hi Mike, Hope this helps you to understand…
Gory(77) = Christ(77)
John 1:14: And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us(in Jesus Christ),
(and we beheld his glory(in Jesus), the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
No Ed…………not really.
I'll hit you up on your other thread about it.
mike
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 19 2010,13:54)
Hi Shimmer,Take your time. Might I again suggest that instead of reading early church fathers and Googling “gnosticism”, you start with the holy scriptures?
What part of “flesh and blood cannot enter the Kingdom of God” is so hard to understand?
And you imply that I have some “hidden agenda”? My only agenda is studying the scriptures and believing them in an effort to “take in knowledge of the only true God and the Christ He sent”.
P.S. I don't know where you heard that about the JW's, but instead of believing whatever their enemies say about them, maybe you should ask one of them what they believe. I try to follow scripture to a “T”, and they come closer to how I understand scripture than any other group out there. I don't agree with their understanding on everything, but most things.
Anyway, “scripture, scripture, scripture!”
It's not important what Gene or Ed or mikeboll or t8 or JA believe Shimmer. All that matters is whether your understanding is confirmed by the scriptures themselves.peace and love,
mike
Mike,I dont know about the flesh and blood part, but Jesus is more than just a spirit, he has a body.
John 21,
`Put your finger here. Look at my hands. Feel my side with your hand. Do not doubt anymore, but believe.'
`You yourself have seen me. Is that why you now believe? God will bless people who believe though they have not seen me.'1st Cor 15
“Behold, I tell you a mystery. We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we will be changed.”But someone will say, “How are the dead raised?” and, “With what kind of body do they come?” You foolish one, that which you yourself sow is not made alive unless it dies. That which you sow, you don't sow the body that will be, but a bare grain, maybe of wheat, or of some other kind. But God gives it a body even as it pleased him, and to each seed a body of its own. All flesh is not the same flesh, but there is one flesh of men, another flesh of animals, another of fish, and another of birds. There are also celestial bodies, and terrestrial bodies; but the glory of the celestial differs from that of the terrestrial. There is one glory of the sun, another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for one star differs from another star in glory.
So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption. It is sown in dishonor; it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness; it is raised in power. It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body and there is also a spiritual body
See, there is an earthly body and a spiritual body, but both are bodies,
And I found that with just scripture and no-one elses influence,
And Mike I never said you had some agenda, I was talking about others such as JWs (its fact what they believe on Jesus being spirit) I know JWs I speak to them, they told me, and I cheaked it out as well.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 19 2010,01:03) Shimmer…………Absolutely right, many say Jesus is coming back as a (Spirit Being) and that simply is not true. The Gnostic's had the same Ideology, they believed Jesus was really a Spirit being disguised as a man but really was a God , they believe He came from the Pelora of Gods and only appeared as a Man in the flesh but was really a God who left the Polera to come to earth and straighten everything out. They were the First to separate Jesus from our (EXACT) Identity and all other forms of separation arises through their vain Philosophies and that was what Paul and John were constantly addressing, it was these that crept in and left the fundamental teaching of the true Church they were the starters of the Apostate Churches which eventually took over complete Christianity as it is today> Behind all this Preexistence and Trinity doctrines operates this basic teaching s and that is the (SEPARATION) of Jesus from our (EXACT) Identity, and that is the Spirit (intellect) of Antichrist John was talking about. As you study and look into it more you will see what i am talking about. Incorporate into your studies 2 Ths 2, and you will see how it all fits into those false teachings that Change the true IMAGE of Jesus into the Image of the MAN OF SIN, This is (THE LIE) that Jesus will Himself Abolish when He returns. I am glad you are studying for yourself Shimmer. peace and love to you and yours…………………………………gene
OK, so you are waiting for a man in the desert or a man to appear in another place.Believers who will not receive a lie will hold onto the following advice because they will not be expecting a mere man to appear:
“So if anyone tells you, 'There he is, out in the desert,' do not go out; or, 'Here he is, in the inner rooms,' do not believe it.
Rather they will see the son of man coming in the clouds in great glory.
Matthew 24:30
“At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory.Hi Terrarica,
Quote you say;;I agree with Gene, the kingdom of God is within you. could you explain this ? “Where your treasure is, there your heart will be also”Luke 17,
“You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your strength, and with all your mind; and your neighbor as yourself.”
” Being asked by the Pharisees when the Kingdom of God would come, he answered them, “The Kingdom of God doesn't come with observation; neither will they say, 'Look, here!' or, 'Look, there!' for behold, the Kingdom of God is within you.”
See how where your heart is there is your treasure, we are to love God with all of our heart so the kingdom of God is within us, maybe that's what it means ?
Quote “Your will be done on earth as it is in heaven” could you also tell me wen this will happen? “For whoever does the will of my Father who is in heaven, he is my brother, and sister, and mother.”..Luke 10
“Not every one who says to me, “Lord, Lord,” shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.”
See how it says your will be done on earth as it is done in heaven, Jesus did God's will not his own. Then it says Jesus brothers, sisters, mother, is whoever does God's will here. And only those doing HIS will, will enter the kingdom of heaven.
Quote (shimmer @ Oct. 19 2010,22:11) Hi Terrarica,
Quote you say;;I agree with Gene, the kingdom of God is within you. could you explain this ? “Where your treasure is, there your heart will be also”Luke 17,
“You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your strength, and with all your mind; and your neighbor as yourself.”
” Being asked by the Pharisees when the Kingdom of God would come, he answered them, “The Kingdom of God doesn't come with observation; neither will they say, 'Look, here!' or, 'Look, there!' for behold, the Kingdom of God is within you.”
See how where your heart is there is your treasure, we are to love God with all of our heart so the kingdom of God is within us, maybe that's what it means ?
Quote “Your will be done on earth as it is in heaven” could you also tell me wen this will happen? “For whoever does the will of my Father who is in heaven, he is my brother, and sister, and mother.”..Luke 10
“Not every one who says to me, “Lord, Lord,” shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.”
See how it says your will be done on earth as it is done in heaven, Jesus did God's will not his own. Then it says Jesus brothers, sisters, mother, is whoever does God's will here. And only those doing HIS will, will enter the kingdom of heaven.
Hi Shimmer,Excellent Post!
Your brother in
Christ, Jesus!
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Baker @ Oct. 19 2010,13:00) Shimmmer, did you reasd Rev. 19:13-16 That prophecy has not ben fullfilloed yet, and Gods kingdom will be here on the new earth.
Georg believes that the first resurrection has already happend and Christ is preparing the Saints to rule with Him here on earth…… I think that thinking the Kingdom of God is in us, is a concept taught be some Churches. But I don't think there is any Scripture that tells us that is true….. Unless I can see a Scripture that shows me that it is, I will not believe it. Prove all things……All those Scriptures I just gave is not here yet….. But it will one day….. Peace Irene
Hi Irene,I believe too that the first resurrection has happened, as your husband does.
And that Jesus is still to return as in the verses which you gave in Rev 19:13-16, He is still to come.
Quote (shimmer @ Oct. 19 2010,22:11) Hi Terrarica,
Quote you say;;I agree with Gene, the kingdom of God is within you. could you explain this ? “Where your treasure is, there your heart will be also”Luke 17,
“You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your strength, and with all your mind; and your neighbor as yourself.”
” Being asked by the Pharisees when the Kingdom of God would come, he answered them, “The Kingdom of God doesn't come with observation; neither will they say, 'Look, here!' or, 'Look, there!' for behold, the Kingdom of God is within you.”
See how where your heart is there is your treasure, we are to love God with all of our heart so the kingdom of God is within us, maybe that's what it means ?
Quote “Your will be done on earth as it is in heaven” could you also tell me wen this will happen? “For whoever does the will of my Father who is in heaven, he is my brother, and sister, and mother.”..Luke 10
“Not every one who says to me, “Lord, Lord,” shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.”
See how it says your will be done on earth as it is done in heaven, Jesus did God's will not his own. Then it says Jesus brothers, sisters, mother, is whoever does God's will here. And only those doing HIS will, will enter the kingdom of heaven.
Shimmer ……….You have it right sis, continue with the Spirit guiding your mind and you will not get off track. The Kingdom of GOD is indeed within a person in his or her heart and mind. A kingdom is by rule and if GOD is ruling in your mind and heart then his kingdom is indeed within you and then indeed you are a brother or sister of Jesus. Good Post Shimmer.peace and love to you and your……………………………gene
Quote (t8 @ Oct. 19 2010,20:32) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 19 2010,01:03) Shimmer…………Absolutely right, many say Jesus is coming back as a (Spirit Being) and that simply is not true. The Gnostic's had the same Ideology, they believed Jesus was really a Spirit being disguised as a man but really was a God , they believe He came from the Pelora of Gods and only appeared as a Man in the flesh but was really a God who left the Polera to come to earth and straighten everything out. They were the First to separate Jesus from our (EXACT) Identity and all other forms of separation arises through their vain Philosophies and that was what Paul and John were constantly addressing, it was these that crept in and left the fundamental teaching of the true Church they were the starters of the Apostate Churches which eventually took over complete Christianity as it is today> Behind all this Preexistence and Trinity doctrines operates this basic teaching s and that is the (SEPARATION) of Jesus from our (EXACT) Identity, and that is the Spirit (intellect) of Antichrist John was talking about. As you study and look into it more you will see what i am talking about. Incorporate into your studies 2 Ths 2, and you will see how it all fits into those false teachings that Change the true IMAGE of Jesus into the Image of the MAN OF SIN, This is (THE LIE) that Jesus will Himself Abolish when He returns. I am glad you are studying for yourself Shimmer. peace and love to you and yours…………………………………gene
OK, so you are waiting for a man in the desert or a man to appear in another place.Believers who will not receive a lie will hold onto the following advice because they will not be expecting a mere man to appear:
“So if anyone tells you, 'There he is, out in the desert,' do not go out; or, 'Here he is, in the inner rooms,' do not believe it.
Rather they will see the son of man coming in the clouds in great glory.
Matthew 24:30
“At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory.
T8……….NO i am waiting for Jesus my brother and Lord to return in the Clouds with great glory as a MAN Just as He left. I have no idea what you are talking about with the Desert thing , where did i ever say that? Drawing straws to try to discredit me is all i can see you doing there. Jesus plainly said , when the SON OF (MAN) returns will he find Faith on the earth. Now are you saying a Son of MAN will not return, your argument is with Jesus not Me. IMOpeace and love…………………………..gene
Quote (shimmer @ Oct. 19 2010,20:17) ] But someone will say, “How are the dead raised?” and, “With what kind of body do they come?” You foolish one, that which you yourself sow is not made alive unless it dies. That which you sow, you don't sow the body that will be, but a bare grain, maybe of wheat, or of some other kind. But God gives it a body even as it pleased him, and to each seed a body of its own. All flesh is not the same flesh, but there is one flesh of men, another flesh of animals, another of fish, and another of birds. There are also celestial bodies, and terrestrial bodies; but the glory of the celestial differs from that of the terrestrial. There is one glory of the sun, another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for one star differs from another star in glory.
So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption. It is sown in dishonor; it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness; it is raised in power. It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body and there is also a spiritual body
See, there is an earthly body and a spiritual body, but both are bodies,
And I found that with just scripture and no-one elses influence,
And Mike I never said you had some agenda, I was talking about others such as JWs (its fact what they believe on Jesus being spirit) I know JWs I speak to them, they told me, and I cheaked it out as well.
Shimmer……….You have it right……….where it says “(IT) is sown in corruption, (IT) is raised in incorruption, (IT) is sown in dishonor: (IT) is raised in glory, (IT) is sown a natural body; (IT) is raised a spiritual body.All of the “IT'S” are talking about a real physical Body. A man cam not become a living SOUL again with out a BODY and Neither could Jesus Have. He will return with the exact same Body He was raised with. It is essential we all attain to the RESURRECTION that witness the redemption of our BODIES.
A living Soul = A BODY + SPIRIT .
peace and love to you and yours Shimmer………………….gene
Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 19 2010,11:32) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 19 2010,09:40) Terricca…………And what do we have in you, a person who does not believe GOD can Predetermine anything, a GOD who Purposes He is to weak to carry out so He just leaves it all up to a us with our limited understanding because he thinks it is better for man by mans blind and captivated Wills to figure it all out. That is a Joke at best. Why do you “profess GOD but deny His POWER”, is that how your “FREE WILL” salvation works?. A joke at best if you ask me. peace and love…………………………..gene
genepredetermine and predeterminism are two different things;
and you are lying abode me because i never said what you say i did,
\god as determined everything even how to save man from sin,this is the reason that he give his son for ransom,
but we have to believe it first God does not force us to do it,
so we have to chose who to serve God or this world
Pierre
Terricca………..They are not different things one is the description of the process predetermining , the other is the action of the Process Predeterminism. But the truth is no word as Predeterminism even exists that is a made up word, Any way one is a descriptor the other is the action of doing it< But both are the same thing. IMOTo ALL………….A Physical Body can live for ever, it certainly is possible. Remember Gen 3:22…..> and the LORD God said Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and Now lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and (LIVE FOREVER).
So even back then the Flesh man ADAM could have lived forever had He eat (taken to himself) of the tree (that which produces from self) of life and lived forever in the body he had. As it were some lived over 900 years in those bodies. But none over a thousand years, why because a thousand years is as a day with God and a day is as a thousand years and remember GOD said “IN THE (DAY) YOU EAT OF IT YOU SHALL DIES. And all did dies within a day or thousand year period .
peace and love to you all…………………….gene
Quote (shimmer @ Oct. 19 2010,22:11) Hi Terrarica,
Quote you say;;I agree with Gene, the kingdom of God is within you. could you explain this ? “Where your treasure is, there your heart will be also”Luke 17,
“You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your strength, and with all your mind; and your neighbor as yourself.”
” Being asked by the Pharisees when the Kingdom of God would come, he answered them, “The Kingdom of God doesn't come with observation; neither will they say, 'Look, here!' or, 'Look, there!' for behold, the Kingdom of God is within you.”
See how where your heart is there is your treasure, we are to love God with all of our heart so the kingdom of God is within us, maybe that's what it means ?
Quote “Your will be done on earth as it is in heaven” could you also tell me wen this will happen? “For whoever does the will of my Father who is in heaven, he is my brother, and sister, and mother.”..Luke 10
“Not every one who says to me, “Lord, Lord,” shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.”
See how it says your will be done on earth as it is done in heaven, Jesus did God's will not his own. Then it says Jesus brothers, sisters, mother, is whoever does God's will here. And only those doing HIS will, will enter the kingdom of heaven.
Hi shimmer, I wonder though what Jesus meant when He said the Kingdom of God is within you….The Our father says Our Father, who art in Heaven, hollowed be Thy Name, Thy Kingdom come, Thy will be done, on Earth as it is in Heaven. Since we have Gods Holy Spirit living in us, I wonder if that is what Jesus meant…. Jesus also gave us “The Our Father.” Maybe it means that is Spiritual and will become The Kingdom, later, when Christ returns…. Jesus will return in the flesh, I am not to sure about it, but all will see Him, and we will have Humans living then, so they will see Him too. I know it is a glorfied body. Can it also mean that those that are HUmans will see Him that way and those that are Spirit beings will see Him in the gloryfied body. Rember at Pentwcot all heard the Apostle speaking in their tongues…. So to God all is possible…. We will see one day….
Peace and Love IreneQuote (shimmer @ Oct. 20 2010,05:11) Hi Terrarica,
Quote you say;;I agree with Gene, the kingdom of God is within you. could you explain this ? “Where your treasure is, there your heart will be also”Luke 17,
“You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your strength, and with all your mind; and your neighbor as yourself.”
” Being asked by the Pharisees when the Kingdom of God would come, he answered them, “The Kingdom of God doesn't come with observation; neither will they say, 'Look, here!' or, 'Look, there!' for behold, the Kingdom of God is within you.”
See how where your heart is there is your treasure, we are to love God with all of our heart so the kingdom of God is within us, maybe that's what it means ?
Quote “Your will be done on earth as it is in heaven” could you also tell me wen this will happen? “For whoever does the will of my Father who is in heaven, he is my brother, and sister, and mother.”..Luke 10
“Not every one who says to me, “Lord, Lord,” shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.”
See how it says your will be done on earth as it is done in heaven, Jesus did God's will not his own. Then it says Jesus brothers, sisters, mother, is whoever does God's will here. And only those doing HIS will, will enter the kingdom of heaven.
shimmeryou have more truth than most on this forum and i am glad abode it.
keep your good works,and trust in God only .
you make me very happy
Pierre
Quote (shimmer @ Oct. 19 2010,22:24) Quote (Baker @ Oct. 19 2010,13:00) Shimmmer, did you reasd Rev. 19:13-16 That prophecy has not ben fullfilloed yet, and Gods kingdom will be here on the new earth.
Georg believes that the first resurrection has already happend and Christ is preparing the Saints to rule with Him here on earth…… I think that thinking the Kingdom of God is in us, is a concept taught be some Churches. But I don't think there is any Scripture that tells us that is true….. Unless I can see a Scripture that shows me that it is, I will not believe it. Prove all things……All those Scriptures I just gave is not here yet….. But it will one day….. Peace Irene
Hi Irene,I believe too that the first resurrection has happened, as your husband does.
And that Jesus is still to return as in the verses which you gave in Rev 19:13-16, He is still to come.
Quote (Baker @ Oct. 20 2010,05:58) Quote (shimmer @ Oct. 19 2010,22:24) Quote (Baker @ Oct. 19 2010,13:00) Shimmmer, did you reasd Rev. 19:13-16 That prophecy has not been fulfilled yet, and Gods kingdom will be here on the new earth.
Georg believes that the first resurrection has already happened and Christ is preparing the Saints to rule with Him here on earth…… I think that thinking the Kingdom of God is in us, is a concept taught be some Churches. But I don't think there is any Scripture that tells us that is true….. Unless I can see a Scripture that shows me that it is, I will not believe it. Prove all things……All those Scriptures I just gave is not here yet….. But it will one day….. Peace Irene
Hi Irene,I believe too that the first resurrection has happened, as your husband does.
And that Jesus is still to return as in the verses which you gave in Rev 19:13-16, He is still to come.
shimmer! I now understand what it means in Luke 17 there is also another Scripture in
Jhn 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.That is spiritual speaking, and when Jesus comes the Kingdom will come, with His Saints and no Human being will be able to see Him. He is as bright as the sun, it would blind a person. Just like it blinded Paul….
Also in
Jhn 14:19 ¶ Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.
Christ is now divine and will no longer die…..and the world will not be able to see Him, He is as bright as the sun….
Peace and Love Irene
Irene………….Jesus is not brighter then the Sun and no scripture say that either, scripture say plainly the the earth world will see Him When he returns.
Mat 24:30……> And then shall appear the sign of the SON OF MAN in the heavens: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall (SEE) (THE SON OF MAN) coming in the clouds of heaven (just as he left) with Power and Great Glory.
Now Irene, does that sound like we will not be able to (SEE) Him? You have allowed the false teaching of Preexistence to cause you to completely separate Jesus from Yourself and others to IMO. It has clouded you view of Jesus, as it has many others to Irene IMO. Irene that is exactly my point in all this Trinitarian and Preexistence stuff , it only serves to separate us from Jesus not bond us to Him because it makes him different then we are. Do you follow what i am trying to say here. Jesus did not come as a human being to be separated from Us but to be binded with us, that preexistence teaching does separate Him from us just like the Trinitarian teaching doe also.
peace and love to you and Georg……………….gene
Quote (JustAskin @ Oct. 20 2010,15:21) Terra, The 'Shimmer'-ing light has grown steady, radiant, illuminating and bright.
JA
yes she does well,wen you truth be accepted like she does
it warms my hearth.Pierre
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 20 2010,07:04) Irene………….Jesus is not brighter then the Sun and no scripture say that either, scripture say plainly the the earth world will see Him When he returns. Mat 24:30……> And then shall appear the sign of the SON OF MAN in the heavens: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall (SEE) (THE SON OF MAN) coming in the clouds of heaven (just as he left) with Power and Great Glory.
Now Irene, does that sound like we will not be able to (SEE) Him? You have allowed the false teaching of Preexistence to cause you to completely separate Jesus from Yourself and others to IMO. It has clouded you view of Jesus, as it has many others to Irene IMO. Irene that is exactly my point in all this Trinitarian and Preexistence stuff , it only serves to separate us from Jesus not bond us to Him because it makes him different then we are. Do you follow what i am trying to say here. Jesus did not come as a human being to be separated from Us but to be binded with us, that preexistence teaching does separate Him from us just like the Trinitarian teaching doe also.
peace and love to you and Georg……………….gene
Gene! You are quoting a Scripture that tells you that Christ will come in all His glory what He received in Heaven, aftrer He died and was resurrected.Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
This is what the Blue Letter Bible says which is the KJV of the Bible. I copy abnd paste Scrioptures from there.
He will come in the cloud, why do you think that it says in the cloud. Nobody can look at Him because of His Glory…….He has a Gorified Body now and will never be anything else ever again…..Only those that are also Spirit Beings, the Saints that died for Christ in the first three centuries will be able to see Him…..What do you perceive to be His Glory?
?? Not a Human Being, that is for certain….and it does not say like He left either, those are your words and not the Bibles. Rev. 19:13-16 will tell us how He will come to do….Rev 19:13 And he [was] clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
Rev 19:14 And the armies [which were] in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
Rev 19:16 And he hath on [his] vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
.Rev 1:16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance [was] as the sun shineth in his strength.
That is what Jesus will come back as…….
Gene again and again you have to become personal, no matter what. Why is that so important to you to do? I never again after leaving the Catholkic Church believed in the trinity and you just want to close your mind about what Jesus was before He became a man, The Son of God, He never just was a mere man. He knew where He came from, Scriptures tell me so…which you want to deny……You re dead wrong….,..
Peace Irene
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