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Hi 94,
Surely Christ revealed the NATURE and person of God manifest in his vessel in power and grace
That nature is our inheritance too as the fruits of the Spirit[Gal5].Quote (kejonn @ July 23 2007,08:42) 942, I don't know that “personality” would be the right word to use to describe what Yeshua was before his earthly conception.
Personality
- The quality or condition of being a person.
- The totality of qualities and traits, as of character or behavior, that are peculiar to a specific person.
- The pattern of collective character, behavioral, temperamental, emotional, and mental traits of a person: Though their personalities differed, they got along as friends.
- Distinctive qualities of a person, especially those distinguishing personal characteristics that make one socially appealing: won the election more on personality than on capability. See synonyms at disposition.
- a) A person as the embodiment of distinctive traits of mind and behavior.
b) A person of prominence or notoriety: television personalities.
I think your use of the word “personality” would be confusing to most. It is why I asked for clarification.
HI KJ:Maybe you are right, and so, if you understand my intent, what would you suggest would be a better word to use.
The following in the series of definitions of personality that you have given fits more with what I am indicating:
Quote - The totality of qualities and traits, as of character or behavior, that are peculiar to a specific person.
Hebrews 1:3 states about Jesus:
Quote Hebrews 1
1:3
Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had * by himself purged * our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;And Jesus states:
Quote 14:7
If ye had known me *, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
14:8
Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
14:9
Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
14:10
Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
14:11
Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.We have seen the Father's Character manifest through the life that Jesus lived in obedience to God's Word.
This is what I intended to say by stating that word “personality” of Jesus was with God in the beginning. God had forseen that he would have a Son. He did not exist in the flesh in the beginning, but the Word of God that Jesus would obey was with God. In other words, God knew in the beginning what he would teach his Son when he did become a reality in the flesh.
If a better word that “personality” would better convey what I have said above, please let me know. I don't want to confuse anyone. There is enough confusion already without me adding to it.
I hope that I have clarified my viewpoint, but if not, please let me know.
God Bless
Quote (942767 @ July 23 2007,01:29) Quote (kenrch @ July 23 2007,00:59) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 22 2007,19:23) Quote (942767 @ July 22 2007,09:58) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 22 2007,09:02) Hi 94,
So Jesus was in the form of God at the Jordan?
God is not a man, even an anointed man.
Hi Nick:Philippians did not say that he was God. It says that he was in the “form of God”. He was God's Christ. He was God's representative to humanity. God endowed him with such athority as to even forgive sins.
There is only “One God”. There never was and never will be more than “One God”. If you say that being in the form of God means that he was God prior to his being conceived of the Holy Ghost, then you are agreeing that he was God incarnate.
Isa 44:6
Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.Quote 1Ti 2:5
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;God Bless
Hi K,
The WORD WAS GOD.
When WAS this?
Do you say immediately prior to his coming?
Not necessarily.
Perhaps even before he was with God?
You mean 94 don't you Nick?Quote Perhaps even before he was with God? But I would like to know what was God before He was God?
Hi Nick:Two Gods at some point in time?
Hi 94,
Many are called gods in scripture, and the Word was with God.
But for us there is One God
The Father[1Cor8]Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 23 2007,09:28) Quote (942767 @ July 23 2007,01:29) Quote (kenrch @ July 23 2007,00:59) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 22 2007,19:23) Quote (942767 @ July 22 2007,09:58) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 22 2007,09:02) Hi 94,
So Jesus was in the form of God at the Jordan?
God is not a man, even an anointed man.
Hi Nick:Philippians did not say that he was God. It says that he was in the “form of God”. He was God's Christ. He was God's representative to humanity. God endowed him with such athority as to even forgive sins.
There is only “One God”. There never was and never will be more than “One God”. If you say that being in the form of God means that he was God prior to his being conceived of the Holy Ghost, then you are agreeing that he was God incarnate.
Isa 44:6
Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.Quote 1Ti 2:5
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;God Bless
Hi K,
The WORD WAS GOD.
When WAS this?
Do you say immediately prior to his coming?
Not necessarily.
Perhaps even before he was with God?
You mean 94 don't you Nick?Quote Perhaps even before he was with God? But I would like to know what was God before He was God?
Hi Nick:Two Gods at some point in time?
Hi 94,
Many are called gods in scripture, and the Word was with God.
But for us there is One God
The Father[1Cor8]
Hi Nick:The point is that there is “Only One God” and He is the source of the Word. The scripture states and the Word was God. Well if God is not the source of the Word and the Word was God and God was and is God. Then at some point in time according to your comment there were “Two Gods”.
God Bless
Hi 94,
If you are in Christ then 1 cor 8 applies to you.
“For US there is ONE GOD, the Father..”
Does anything else matter?I leave the philosophy to the philosophers.
to all…..> what's so hard about understanding that God was in Jesus by vertue of the annointing (Christos) and that God was speaking through him and performming meracles through him, it was God's work Jesus was doing not (HIS) work. Jesus could do nothing of Himself, just like he said, it was God in Him doing it.And that same God can do the same thing in us or anyone or any thing.
There were times when God would speak in a first person sence through Jesus, remember when He (GOD) said destory this temple and in three day's I will raise it up, that wasen't Jesus speaking that was the Father taking over Jesus' voice. Whats my proof, the scripture say's in three places that God raised Jesus from the grave . Jesus himself did not raise himself then, so Jesus could not have made the statement , in three day I shall raise it up, that was the Father in Him speeking first Person. God the Father cohabbits with us our body's and can and does litterly take over at times and cause us to utter His words, remember when jesus said not to think what we would say if on trial, it would be given us in that hour what to say and it would not be us talking by the Father speaking through us, it's the same thing with Jesus, God who is Spirit was litterly in Him and also is in thoes who have his Spirit in them.
I do not think Jesus perexisted before he was born, except in the paln and will of God.
the word who was God was certainly in Him but that does not make Him a God no more than it would make us a God. this is the was it is plainly exhibited in the scriptures .
gene
no one has produced any proof of activity of his prexistence yet.
Nick… his origns were from the beginning of the world and gess what so was your's and mine, Doesn't it plainly say we were for Known and predestined, we all were brother, and that's why we are all going to make it, because greater is He that is in us the He that's in the world.
God bless you and peace to …..gene
Hi Gene,
My origins do not go quite that far back.
God knows the future.
But the Word was with God in the beginning.Nick……> you don't know how far back your origins go and neither do I. what you are doing is giving Jesus as much Glory as you seam to be the Father, I tell you if you view Jesus as any different then yourself you are pushing Him away form yourself. Jesus is our brother nin every way and what God did through him He can do through you, me, or rocks as far as that goes. Jesus was the proof that GOd can do anything through any one He Chooses. God The Father and Jeus wants us to see what he did for our brother He can do for us also, no difference, stop pushing Jesus away from yourself, he's is just like you and me, no better no worse…if you are at one with Jesus you will be at one with the Father also. The only difference is his present authority which the Father has given Him in the Family.
peace…..geneHi Gene,
I am not the monogenes son and I was not with God in the beginning
and all creation did not come through me.Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 23 2007,09:59) Hi 94,
If you are in Christ then 1 cor 8 applies to you.
“For US there is ONE GOD, the Father..”
Does anything else matter?I leave the philosophy to the philosophers.
Hi Nick:It was because of the comments that you made that this converstation began when you said:
Quote Hi K,
The WORD WAS GOD.
When WAS this?
Do you say immediately prior to his coming?
Not necessarily.
Perhaps even before he was with God?And you seem to believe that Jesus was in the form of God before he was anointed as God's Christ. You say:
Quote Hi 94,
So Jesus was in the form of God at the Jordan?
God is not a man, even an anointed man.I acknowledge that there is but “One God” the Father and 1 Co. 8:6 is a plain and simple statement. It applies to me as well as to all of humanity whether or not they know it.
God Bless
Nick….rather you realize it or not you are turnning Jesus in a deity on the same lever as God the Father. How could a person who created all things as you state , say he could do nothing on his own, on the one hand you are saying he is not a God, and on the other you are protraying himas a God you can't have both, either he is a man loke me and you or he is a God, one or the other or do you concider him a Man -God.
you use the monogenes like it something magical when infact i think you are refering to (only Begotten)…which in all three places it is mentioned it is mistranslated , any good Greek text can prove this, it should read (UNIQUELY BEGOTTEN) look it up.
and where it say's He created all things through Christ, that should be rendered the Spirit. God created all things through the Spirit and that includes Jesus as well as us, all who Have God's spirit in them are begotten by God the FAther. Your giving Glory to the messenger and over look Him who did it all, which was God who was in Him.John 1:1 In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and the word was God.
I think the key to understanding this verse is tied up in the word with.
WITH means… by means of, by, through, by way of
Saying that the word is with, or by way of God, is saying that while we can receive the word of God that word still remains in Him. It denotes a SERIOUS connection that can be made between us and God, because if God is giving us the word, but the word still remains in Him, then we are SHARING the word and are united together in it.
Saying that the word WAS God, is telling us that the word He is SHARING came solely from Him, in other words, He is the direct source of the word.
And the word became flesh and dwelt among us.
God shared the word with flesh and blood, and that flesh and blood dwelt among us sharing the word, so that we may know God, and also share in His word.Jesus is not the word, he was given the word in order to unite mankind with God.
A pre-existent Jesus to me seems like an unnecessary party member.
Hebrews 1:1 Long ago God spoke to our ancestors in many and various ways by the prophets, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by a Son,
I believe I have pointed this out before, the scripture says God spoke to the prophets. It most certainly does not say a pre-existent Son spoke to the prophets.
God gave bits and pieces of the word to the prophets, whereas God gave His word to Jesus in full. It cannot be said that God’s word became flesh in Moses because many of Moses’s words were simply his own words, but it can truly be said that God’s word became flesh in Jesus because everything that proceeded out of the mouth of Jesus, came from God.
For those who believe in a pre-existent son, I have some questions for you-
What was God’s purpose for creating a pre-existent son?
What further understanding can we gain from knowing that Jesus pre-existed?
Was it necessary for our salvation that Jesus pre-exist?Hi Jodi
WITH
Jn 1
“1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.”Number 4314
Transliteration:
pros {pros}
Word Origin:
a strengthened form of 4253
TDNT:
6:720,942
Part of Speech:
prep
Usage in the KJV:
unto 340, to 203, with 43, for 25, against 24, among 20, at 11, not tr 6, misc 53, vr to 1Total: 726
Definition:
to the advantage of
at, near, by
to, towards, with, with regard toQuote (Jodi @ July 23 2007,11:42) John 1:1 In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and the word was God. I think the key to understanding this verse is tied up in the word with.
WITH means… by means of, by, through, by way of
Saying that the word is with, or by way of God, is saying that while we can receive the word of God that word still remains in Him. It denotes a SERIOUS connection that can be made between us and God, because if God is giving us the word, but the word still remains in Him, then we are SHARING the word and are united together in it.
Saying that the word WAS God, is telling us that the word He is SHARING came solely from Him, in other words, He is the direct source of the word.
And the word became flesh and dwelt among us.
God shared the word with flesh and blood, and that flesh and blood dwelt among us sharing the word, so that we may know God, and also share in His word.Jesus is not the word, he was given the word in order to unite mankind with God.
A pre-existent Jesus to me seems like an unnecessary party member.
Hebrews 1:1 Long ago God spoke to our ancestors in many and various ways by the prophets, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by a Son,
I believe I have pointed this out before, the scripture says God spoke to the prophets. It most certainly does not say a pre-existent Son spoke to the prophets.
God gave bits and pieces of the word to the prophets, whereas God gave His word to Jesus in full. It cannot be said that God’s word became flesh in Moses because many of Moses’s words were simply his own words, but it can truly be said that God’s word became flesh in Jesus because everything that proceeded out of the mouth of Jesus, came from God.
For those who believe in a pre-existent son, I have some questions for you-
What was God’s purpose for creating a pre-existent son?
What further understanding can we gain from knowing that Jesus pre-existed?
Was it necessary for our salvation that Jesus pre-exist?
Amen! and Amen!
jodi……i agree with you, God is the word and He can cohabit in us as He did Jesus and give us the Light of truth, which is His word.
thanks…geneNick…..> I think Jodi has it right brother. May God help us all to come to the unity of the Spirit. Let's all remember iron sharpen Iron, as we reason together……Peace to you all…..gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 23 2007,11:53) jodi……i agree with you, God is the word and He can cohabit in us as He did Jesus and give us the Light of truth, which is His word.
thanks…gene
Hi Gene,
The Word was God.
God was not the Word.
The Word was with God.
Words come from the mouth of GodNick…..> thats like saying you are not your words then pray tell me how could not be you words, your words decribe who you are they are what makes you, you, and you cant be seperated from your words. If your words are lies then you are a lier, if you words are truth then you are a truthfull person, your words are what you are.Therefore God's words is what and who he is also. God cannot be seperated from His words. Jesus could be seperated from the words he was speaking because they weren't his word, but the words of the One who sent him , just as he said, “the words i am telling you are not my words but the words of Him who sent Me.
you are trying to deify Jesus by saying he is the word, your making Jesus God, just like those blind trinitarians do.
I hope i am explaning it right to you……..gene
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