Preexistence

[mikeboll64]

Martian,

I asked many questions about how Jesus knowing things we don't would somehow make it harder to follow his example.

You scoffed them all because you cannot answer them logically and still stand by your doctrine.

I'm done playing with you for a while. You have begun to bore me with your assinine “what if” questions.

Come talk scripture in the Phil 2 thread.

mike

[mikeboll64]

Quote (martian @ July 23 2010,16:30)

The fact that God impregnated Mary by some miraculous way does not mean that the result was any less human then us.

Maybe not “less” human, but definitely “different” than us.

mike

[kerwin]

Mike,

I am well aware of the difference between being forgiven for sinning and not sinning.   I also know that God does not lie and when he states you will be righteous, it means you will be sin free.  Matthew 5:6 does not mention being forgiven for your sins, rather it promises that some will be filled with righteousness.   One who is filled with righteousness does not sin.

Ephesians clearly states that those that believe can put on a new self created like God in true righteousness and holiness.  It is obvious the new self does not sin or it would not be like God in true righteousness and holiness.

About forgiveness we are told in Romans 3:25 we are told that God leaves the sin commited “beforehand” unpunished.  Before what?  Are the sins commited after that punished?  If they are not then why does God state through Paul “beforehand”.

I am leaving you to think and pray on that one.

Your fellow student,

Kerwin

[NickHassan]

Hi KW,
Without Law there is no sin.
Sin is transgression of the Law.
God's Spirit guides and protects.

[kerwin]

Nick,

If you do not have a law then you cannot transgress against that law because there is no law to transgress.    That is certainly a self evident point but be careful less you error in how you apply that point to your understanding.   I assure you God did not give up requiring that his people love their neighbor as themselves.  

Paul was arguing that if there is not law then there is no sin and therefore if there no sin then there is no applicable law as there is no law banning obedience to God, Galatians 5:18.

I admit that Peter is correct when he stated that some of what Paul states is hard to understand but It becomes more clear when you begin to understand what he is actually speaking about.

Your fellow student,

Kerwin

[NickHassan]

Hi KW,
Then why are you still obsessed with sin?

[kerwin]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 24 2010,16:54)

Hi KW, Then why are you still obsessed with sin?

So according to you if I repeat what scripture states then I am obsessed with sin. Perhaps you need to reexamine you life and doctrine.

Your fellow student,

Kerwin

[mikeboll64]

Quote (kerwin @ July 24 2010,16:25)

I am well aware of the difference between being forgiven for sinning and not sinning.

Hi Kerwin,

My point is that God sent Jesus as atonement for our sins so He could still be righteous in calling us righteous.

You are not “sinless” my friend – not if you are human.

The fact that your sins will be disregarded by God due to the sin sacrifice of Jesus doesn't mean you are sinless; only that God is willing to overlook those sins as being “accounted for”.

peace and love,
mike

[Arnold]

Mike I do agree with you. In this flesh we will sin. However sin is not imputed to us, because of Jesus sacrifice. Also and if we sin we have a Mediator to go and ask God for the forgiveness of that sin…. why would we need a Mediator if we would not sin. Also all have fallen short of the glory of God. I also believe that we sin at time and don't realize that we do. To become like Christ which I believe I am striving for, takes time…Will we be like Christ completley? I doubt that. But since sin is not imputed to us, we should thank Jesus every day that He died for us……. Irene

[Arnold]

Quote (kerwin @ July 24 2010,18:30)

Nick, If you do not have a law then you cannot transgress against that law because there is no law to transgress.    That is certainly a self evident point but be careful less you error in how you apply that point to your understanding.   I assure you God did not give up requiring that his people love their neighbor as themselves.   Paul was arguing that if there is not law then there is no sin and therefore if there no sin then there is no applicable law as there is no law banning obedience to God, Galatians 5:18. I admit that Peter is correct when he stated that some of what Paul states is hard to understand but It becomes more clear when you begin to understand what he is actually speaking about. Your fellow student, Kerwin

kerwin   Jesus on the Sermon on the Mount has magnified that Law and made it Holy.  And gave us the New Covenant in Luke 22:20.   Then He gave us the New Commandment in
Math. 22:37-40.   We are not without any Law….. That is wishful thinking on your part. But sin is not imputed to us….because of Jesus sacrifice……..Irene

[martian]

Quote (kerwin @ July 24 2010,14:59)

Martain, So a false doctrine or a false teaching would be taking God's name in vain but using his name as an exclamation is not. Your fellow student, Kerwin

Partially – An exclaimation is not sin but misrepresenting God's character is.

[martian]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 24 2010,15:26)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 23 2010,14:40) Hi MB, Who was the father of Adam? Lk3.38 Are you like Adam? Hi Nick, Really?  That's weak.  If fact, I almost posted “who else” BESIDE ADAM just for the wise guys. Did you not know what I meant?  Who else BESIDES ADAM AND JESUS did NOT have a human father? Don't you think that set Jesus apart as different from all of us EXCEPT ADAM? mike

And if God created a human sperm to make Mary pregnant would he still be other then human.
Th truth is that no one knows exactly how God made Mary pregnant as far as the mechanics go. However the result has to be human because of countless scriptures.

[martian]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 24 2010,15:40)

Martian, I asked many questions about how Jesus knowing things we don't would somehow make it harder to follow his example. You scoffed them all because you cannot answer them logically and still stand by your doctrine. I'm done playing with you for a while.  You have begun to bore me with your assinine “what if” questions.   Come talk scripture in the Phil 2 thread. mike

scoffed??? You compared becoming like Christ to immating monkeys. How much more deserving of scoffing can you get.

[GeneBalthrop]

Kerwin………When are men going to stop trying to be sinless themselves and start seeking GOD. When are we ever going to understand righteousness is a (CREATION) it is not achieved through the flesh or our selves and our (OWN) efforts, true righteousness if a result of the Spirit of GOD (IN) a person, His Spirit (ALONE) produces the Fruits of HIS Spirit Which is the LOVE of GOD, Shed around in our Hearts this causes us to be kind and merciful and patience and foregiving an caring , the Spirit of GOD produces these thing (IN) US. WE ARE CREATED UNTO RIGHTEOUSNESS BY GOD. The SELF has nothing to do with it , we must die to the self. But the question here is (HOW) does that happen is it buy our WORKS or by the OPERATION of GOD (IN) YOU. Kerwin who gets the credit?

Many seek perfection on their own, a righteousness of the (SELF) but this form of righteousness or (SELF) righteousness is not of GOD , but of Man and HIS PRIDE, and that type of Person has (NOT) submitted to the righteousness of GOD, even though there is and appearance of righteousness, they are white washed sepulchers that indeed appear righteous on the outside, but inside are full of dead mens bones. Kerwin it is (ALL) about CREATION and Who is (DOING) the CREATING> IMO

SIMPLY PUT TRUE RIGHTEOUSNESS (IS) A CREATION OF GOD (ALONE). “FOR YOU ARE CREATED UNTO GOOD WORKS” and again “GOD (WORKS) IN US , (BOTH) TO WILL AND DO OF (HIS) GOOD PLEASURE.

peace and love to you and yours…………………………..gene

[martian]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 24 2010,15:31)

Quote (martian @ July 23 2010,15:52) 3. I am sin free, aren’t you? Absolutely not.  I sin each and every day.  I can't help it. You and Kerwin should not confuse being forgiven for the sins we commit with being “sin free”. NO human is “sin free”. mike

Perhaps it is a matter of semantics. I never intended to imply that I am without sin. My point being that I am free of the penality of sin. The only perspective I am interested in is the way in which God sees me. From that perspective, and based on the blood sacrifice of Jesus, my balance sheet stands clear of charges in God’s eyes. My sins are put away as far as the East is from the West, never to remembered against me again. Those who become the sin police of themselves and others or who concentrate all their energy on kneeling at the cross never get beyond it to the new life in Christ. We are set free of sin that we might concentrate on completing the task of becoming worthy sons of God like our brother Jesus.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Arnold @ July 25 2010,01:31)

But since sin is not imputed to us, we should thank Jesus every day that He died for us……. Irene

Hi Irene,

I not only thank Jesus each day, but his God who was willing to sacrifice His own Son to an excruciating death for us to maybe be accepted as righteous in His eyes some day.

mike

[mikeboll64]

Quote (martian @ July 25 2010,01:44)

And if God created a human sperm to make Mary pregnant would he still be other then human. Th truth is that no one knows exactly how God made Mary pregnant as far as the mechanics go. However the result has to be human because of countless scriptures.

Ah, but we DO know that Jesus' “earthly” father was not even of this earth, don't we?

I would say that made Jesus different from all others right from conception.

mike

[mikeboll64]

Quote (martian @ July 25 2010,01:48)

scoffed??? You compared becoming like Christ to immating monkeys. How much more deserving of scoffing can you get.

Really Martian?

Is that what I truthfully did? Was that an honest statement you made about me? Just like when you call me a liar and Satan, this last statement says much more about you as a person than it does about me. Don't you think people can read my post and see that you've misrepresented the truth once more?

You seem to think that we can not follow someone as an example on how to live unless we are EXACTLY the same as that person was.

I was showing that a human could learn to climb a tree from a monkey, even though a monkey is DIFFERENT from a human.

In other words, you don't have to be exactly like Christ was to follow his example. And for you to ignore plain scriptures that show Jesus WAS different from us just so you can “imagine” he was the same is not only wrong, it's stupid IMO.

mike

[GeneBalthrop]

Mike……….What about Adam and Eve whose was there Father?

peace and love……………………..gene

[mikeboll64]

Quote (martian @ July 25 2010,04:06)

From that perspective, and based on the blood sacrifice of Jesus, my balance sheet stands clear of charges in God’s eyes. My sins are put away as far as the East is from the West, never to remembered against me again.

Hi Martian,

Yes, I know scripture says that. But it also says most of us will be judged according to what we've done. Some will go off into everlasting life, some to everlasting destruction.

If all sins have been forgotten, who is it that will go off into everlasting destuction, and what will be the purpose of the judgement?

mike

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