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Yes, all things were made *through* Jesus not directly *by* Jesus.
Question: if Jesus was alive, how could something be made *through* him? How does one create something *through* another person?
GOD laid the foundations of the earth with his own hands. How does this apply to Jesus – how did he do that *through* Jesus?
Quote (Not3in1 @ July 17 2007,11:35) Yes, all things were made *through* Jesus not directly *by* Jesus. Question: if Jesus was alive, how could something be made *through* him? How does one create something *through* another person?
GOD laid the foundations of the earth with his own hands. How does this apply to Jesus – how did he do that *through* Jesus?
God said “SON let there be light”.
Hi not3
Jn 1
” 2The same was in the beginning with God.3All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
5And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
6There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
7The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.
8He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.
9That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
10He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
11He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
12But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Yes, but Nick if Jesus was God as John 1:1 teaches……….you say he was alive as a spirit son? It seems to me you cannot count on John 1:1 to align your theology. According to you, this spirit son that existed “with” God had his own voice and could make decisions on his own (whether or not to come to earth). In John 1:1, the Word was with God and was God. Was the spirit son God?
Hi Not3,
Not the God he was with.
He had divine origins, begotten of God alone having the first place in all things.Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 17 2007,12:24) Not the God he was with.
…..the Word was with God and the Word was God……Not the God he was with? Huh?
He was brought forth of God alone? You mean “created”? Like the angels are “created”?
Is it possible that Psalm 2 is speaking of events which will take place in the future?
If this Psalm is talking about the preexistent spirit son and activities that were happening at then – present time – we have a problem, don't we? The events spoken of in this Psalm have not happened yet!! Would it be fair to say the “begetting” hadn't happened yet either, but it was an event to take place in the future along with everything else mentioned in Psalm 2? If not, why?
Hi,
Prophetic understanding of scripture is the last resort
of those in defence of men grasping what is simply written.Such as the thought that God already loved the Son he was planning to beget.
Well, then, I guess you told me!
However, the fact still remains that the items accounted for in Psalms 2 have not happened yet. Prophetic? Call it whatever you wish, they are events that will happen in the future……. At the time the Psalm was written, the events had not happened.I don't know about God loving his Son before he was conceived…….but if he is anything like earthly fathers, I'm sure he did.
I know my husband loved our son before he was born. You could argue with him about it, but I'm sure you would lose that argument real fast!
Hi not3,
So you knew how many sons and daughters you were going to have and loved them?
Or you loved the idea of having kids?Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 17 2007,19:15) Hi not3,
So you knew how many sons and daughters you were going to have and loved them?
Or you loved the idea of having kids?
Yes and yes.Quote (Not3in1 @ May 30 2007,17:34) Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 30 2007,15:50) Hi Not3,
The god of this world had a secure squatters kingdom established here among men with an order of authority down to the demons. Only God could break it down. God needed a vessel for His Spirit to do this work as He does not come to tiny earth. He found a willing servant in heaven, His monogenes Son, whao agreed to come knowing opf his future rewards, and He sent him here guiding his growth and at the age of 30 human years empowered him eternally to do this victorious work. We continue it till they return.
Nick, there is so much here in what you say that I am not even sure where to start. I'm a bit taken back because some of what you write sounds foreign to my ears. Meaning, I have not read this account in scripture.Jesus is a vessel as we are vessels for God's work. But it sounds like you are saying that Jesus is in fact “only” a “vessel” that God's Spirit lives in (meaning an incarnation?) Or do you mean to imply that Jesus is filled to the fullness of God's Spirit but remains his own person? I agree with the later.
In regards to “finding a willing servant in heaven” that looks a little like God was on a mission, possibly interviewing sons to see who would go. See, in Isaiah it says that God looked around and saw that there was NOONE, and so he worked salvation for himself. His “arm” (offspring) worked salvation FOR him. God had a literal Son who was born on earth. This sounds like the scriptures that I have read.
If the preexistent Jesus agreed to come to earth because of future rewards – well – that just makes it less special for me. He did it for the prizes and not for me?
Then God empowered him to do the work of the cross (so that in and of itself, in my opinion, robs Jesus of the honor of his sufferings and death for us on our behalf) and then Jesus got to be “exhaulted” back up to the very same place he left. This does not sound like the scriptures I read, I'm sorry. Maybe I'm missing something here?
not3in1…..You are NOT MISSING ANYTHING, you have it right in my opinion….T8 i think you need to rethink the prexistence approch, while he did prexist in the plan of God, dosen't mean He was a live being before His berth.think about it, if Jesus wasn't exactly like us in every way, it Just would not be the same. God the Father's plan was for MAN to be an exact reflection or Image of Him. How could having a prexisting God,or angle,or anything else, show us that we could reach that Goal, unless the person was exactly in every way, by birth, by orgin,by existance , or anything else exactly like us..
man could always have an excuse,; well we weren't really like Jesus so how could God expect the same of us. NO in my oipinion Jesus could not have had any advantage over us other than the fullnes of The Spirit, which is what we can Have also, remember Stvephen, he was full of the Sprit and was able to sacrifice his body also. It's the Father in us as well as Jesus that empowered Jesus, as well as all the apostles,and us also. ONE GOD, ONE HOLY SPIRIT< in all and through all.
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