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knrch ….> the word is the Father's Sprit i believe this also and it was in Jesus and it is God The Father He cohabits with Us.
remamber when Jesus said, ” come unto me all you who are heave laden, take of my yoke, I am lowely and my burdon is light .
this yoke was his atachment to the Father and it lightend his load he had. its the same yoke he wanted us to take it will lighten our loads also this yoke yokes us to The Father . and it comes through the Spirit.
remember in the old testement when God called the Isrealites stiff necked > some times when they would try to yoke to oxen together one would stiffen it's neck so they couldn't put the yoke on, and thats what the Isrealite Nation was doing with God they would not yoke with him.But when we put on the Yoke Jesus had on him and yoke with the Father, the Father lightens our load also like he did Jesus.
peace and blessings to brother…..gene
Quote (t8 @ July 09 2007,14:52) Did Jesus humble and empty himself and became a man?
Did he not then return to the Father's side to the glory that he once had?
Is his origin not from ancient times?
Is he not before all things?
Is he not the Word who became flesh and is still called the Word?
Did he not exist before Abraham?
Was he not before John the Baptist, even though he came after?
Is he not both the root and offspring of David?
Was he not the rock that accompanied the Israelites?
Was he not from Heaven before he came to earth?
Did he not return to Heaven, rather than visit for the first time?
Is he not the wisdom of God?
Is God our Savior not deserving of glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore?If not, then I guess I should just throw away my bible.
What do you think?
t8Good post!
Excellent points!
I know you are shocked.
But I am serious!
Gene, Thank you for your insight. Well said. It takes a lot to become so humble. It took me a lot and every day I'm tempted I renew my faith when I choose His will and not my own. I learned though that Satan tempts us most when we are vulnerable in our hearts. He know our weekness because he was created a very intellegent and beautiful angel. That is why he is so good at deceiving us.
We will know them by their works.Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 09 2007,15:46) Quote (t8 @ July 09 2007,14:52) Did Jesus humble and empty himself and became a man?
Did he not then return to the Father's side to the glory that he once had?
Is his origin not from ancient times?
Is he not before all things?
Is he not the Word who became flesh and is still called the Word?
Did he not exist before Abraham?
Was he not before John the Baptist, even though he came after?
Is he not both the root and offspring of David?
Was he not the rock that accompanied the Israelites?
Was he not from Heaven before he came to earth?
Did he not return to Heaven, rather than visit for the first time?
Is he not the wisdom of God?
Is God our Savior not deserving of glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore?If not, then I guess I should just throw away my bible.
What do you think?
t8Good post!
Excellent points!
I know you are shocked.
But I am serious!
Wow.Excuse me while I faint.
Will post again when I come to.
Quote (t8 @ July 09 2007,16:20) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 09 2007,15:46) Quote (t8 @ July 09 2007,14:52) Did Jesus humble and empty himself and became a man?
Did he not then return to the Father's side to the glory that he once had?
Is his origin not from ancient times?
Is he not before all things?
Is he not the Word who became flesh and is still called the Word?
Did he not exist before Abraham?
Was he not before John the Baptist, even though he came after?
Is he not both the root and offspring of David?
Was he not the rock that accompanied the Israelites?
Was he not from Heaven before he came to earth?
Did he not return to Heaven, rather than visit for the first time?
Is he not the wisdom of God?
Is God our Savior not deserving of glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore?If not, then I guess I should just throw away my bible.
What do you think?
t8Good post!
Excellent points!
I know you are shocked.
But I am serious!
Wow.Excuse me while I faint.
Will post again when I come to.
t8,I don't think you should throw away your Bible, however; I do think you should realize that scripture lends itself to your view and others.
You interpret the scriptures, right? According to what you believe the Father has shown you, you use inference; logic mixed with faith, and you draw your conclusions about what each scripture is saying. What makes you so bold as to assume that your interpretations/conclusions are the only correct ones?
Instead of making bold statements that imply your interpretations of scripture are completely true and correct or if not, you should through away your Bible…….I would ponder why it is that WJ agrees with your post?
Quote (Not3in1 @ July 14 2007,16:13) Quote (t8 @ July 09 2007,16:20) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 09 2007,15:46) Quote (t8 @ July 09 2007,14:52) Did Jesus humble and empty himself and became a man?
Did he not then return to the Father's side to the glory that he once had?
Is his origin not from ancient times?
Is he not before all things?
Is he not the Word who became flesh and is still called the Word?
Did he not exist before Abraham?
Was he not before John the Baptist, even though he came after?
Is he not both the root and offspring of David?
Was he not the rock that accompanied the Israelites?
Was he not from Heaven before he came to earth?
Did he not return to Heaven, rather than visit for the first time?
Is he not the wisdom of God?
Is God our Savior not deserving of glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore?If not, then I guess I should just throw away my bible.
What do you think?
t8Good post!
Excellent points!
I know you are shocked.
But I am serious!
Wow.Excuse me while I faint.
Will post again when I come to.
t8,I don't think you should throw away your Bible, however; I do think you should realize that scripture lends itself to your view and others.
You interpret the scriptures, right? According to what you believe the Father has shown you, you use inference; logic mixed with faith, and you draw your conclusions about what each scripture is saying. What makes you so bold as to assume that your interpretations/conclusions are the only correct ones?
Instead of making bold statements that imply your interpretations of scripture are completely true and correct or if not, you should through away your Bible…….I would ponder why it is that WJ agrees with your post?
not3He dosnt have to ponder because while we may disagree with who Jesus is we do not diagree with His Pre-existence!
You should ponder yourself as to why that is!
Scriptures are very clear that Jesus was before Abraham!
The Scriptures are not very clear, WJ.
Goodness………..look at us! Listen to every single person that participates in this forum!
Clear? Hardly.
You and t8 disagree about who Jesus is, therefore you both have a different “preexistent” Jesus!
That is not even close to an agreement, I'm afraid.
Oh, how I wish that God would give us all the answers NOW. Wouldn't that be nice?
I think that God tried to make it clear. Then man with all of his wisdom started looking
for hidden meanings to the words. Searched for spiritual meanings behind simple
explanations. Tried to mystify everything in scriptures. And what do we get?
C O N F U S I O N.The wisdom of man is foolishness to God.
Tim
Quote (TimothyVI @ July 14 2007,22:12) I think that God tried to make it clear. Then man with all of his wisdom started looking
for hidden meanings to the words. Searched for spiritual meanings behind simple
explanations. Tried to mystify everything in scriptures. And what do we get?
C O N F U S I O N.The wisdom of man is foolishness to God.
Tim
Tim,I agree wholeheartedly!
One thing I have let go of while here on HeavenNet is that I have the ONLY answer/interpretation/conclusion/truth. The truth is, Scripture lends itself to many different views, and because of this, we have many different conclusions regarding a great many topics.
This is why I encouraged t8 not to throw his Bible away if he one day finds out it doesn't say what he thought it did!
My pastor once told a story about when he was in Seminary; he said that one of his professors asked them to write down some core beliefs and doctrinal stances that they were sure of. It was a very entertaining story and I am not doing it justice, however the point to the story was – just before graduation, this professor returned those papers to each student. My pastor said, “Guess what I did with my paper?” Long pause……and then he answered, “I crumped it up and threw it away!”
Quote (Not3in1 @ July 14 2007,19:20) You and t8 disagree about who Jesus is, therefore you both have a different “preexistent” Jesus! That is not even close to an agreement, I'm afraid.
Oh, how I wish that God would give us all the answers NOW. Wouldn't that be nice?
Hi not3,
PREEXISTANT is an OXYMORON.It is a term that views life only from an earthly perspective.
God and angels existed before any visible creation-would you say God preexisted?
It is a term that introduces bias.
Soi if you use the term about the MAN Jesus Christ clearly you are saying he is only an ordinary physical man. And yet you want to call him a god/man.
I do not understand.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 15 2007,07:39) Quote (Not3in1 @ July 14 2007,19:20) You and t8 disagree about who Jesus is, therefore you both have a different “preexistent” Jesus! That is not even close to an agreement, I'm afraid.
Oh, how I wish that God would give us all the answers NOW. Wouldn't that be nice?
Hi not3,
PREEXISTANT is an OXYMORN.It is a term that views life only from an earthly perspective.
God and angels existed before any visible creation-would you say God preexisted?
It is a term that introduces bias.
Soi if you use the term about the MAN Jesus Christ clearly you are saying he is only an ordinary physical man. And yet you want to call him a god/man.
I do not understand.
Earthly perspective is all we have to work with. We cannot begin to conceive of what God has planned for us, or how high the heavens are, or what is in the heavens! We must work with what we can.Angels were created and so there was a time when they were not. God has always been, so that is pretty much a moot point. However, preexistence suggests that some being lived “before” they actually existed. The only bias, that I can see, the term brings is that it puts into a term the theology you embrace. A word needed to be constructed (much like “incarnation”) that is soley used for “Christianity” because the idea or concept cannot be found in scripture. Certainly there is no word that describes this ideal in the Bible. So, we made one up!
I'm sorry, but your second-to-last sentence is unclear to me?
Hi not3
You say
“However, preexistence suggests that some being lived “before” they actually existed. “
What does this mean?
Angels have come to earth and been seen as human.
Did they preexist?This is another absurd statement if Yeshua did not preexist:
Matthew 11:27
“All things have been handed over to Me by My Father; and no one knows the Son except the Father; nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and anyone to whom the Son wills to reveal Him.No one knows the father except the Son? You would think that one of the hosts of heaven, who are in the company of the Father, would “know” the Father better than Yeshua. It's a very strange declaration if Yeshua did not preexist his incarnation….
Hi Is 1.18,
Yes. BTW in context it refers mainly to men.
” 27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man[3672] knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him .”Number 3762
Transliteration:
oudeis {oo-dice'} including feminine oudemia {oo-dem-ee'-ah}
Word Origin:
from 3761 and 1520
Part of Speech:
pronoun
Usage in the KJV:
no man 94, nothing 68, none 27, no 24, any man 3, any 3, man 2, neither any man 2, misc 13Total: 236
Definition:
no one, nothingThat's not true.
G3762
οὐδείς
oudeis
oo-dice'Including the feminine οὐδεμία oudemia
oo-dem-ee'-ah and the neuter οὐδέν ouden oo-den'
From G3761 and G1520; not even one (man, woman or thing), that is, none, nobody, nothing: – any (man), aught, man, neither any (thing), never (man), no (man), none (+ of these things), not (any, at all, -thing), nought. (Strong's Concordance)Not specific to “men”.
Quote (Is 1:18 @ July 15 2007,12:36) This is another absurd statement if Yeshua did not preexist: Matthew 11:27
“All things have been handed over to Me by My Father; and no one knows the Son except the Father; nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and anyone to whom the Son wills to reveal Him.No one knows the father except the Son? You would think that one of the hosts of heaven, who are in the company of the Father, would “know” the Father better than Yeshua. It's a very strange declaration if Yeshua did not preexist his incarnation….
. Hi Is,1,18
This depends on whether you have faith in the resurrection of the dead, some one is conformed to the Image of the son, being predestinated becoming then the first born,Rom 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate [to be] conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Being not yet conformed to be the first born, God delivers to the Holy one, exalted, and chosen out of Many, which happens to be of the generations of the Father looking to the generation of the Sons, that shall be lead by the first fruits of them that slept, Christ, this father was delivered that he shall be the first born of Many to follow.by the covenant of the soul shall live, “resrrection of the dead”
Psa 89:19 Then thou spakest in vision to thy holy one, and saidst, I have laid help upon [one that is] mighty; I have exalted [one] chosen out of the people.
I have found David my servant; with my holy oil have I anointed him:
With whom my hand shall be established: mine arm also shall strengthen him.
The enemy shall not exact upon him; nor the son of wickedness afflict him.
And I will beat down his foes before his face, and plague them that hate him.
But my faithfulness and my mercy [shall be] with him: and in my name shall his horn be exalted. I will set his hand also in the sea, and his right hand in the rivers.
He shall cry unto me, Thou [art] my father, my God, and the rock of my salvation. Also I will make him [my] firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth.These words could be compare to…the sixth day of creation…Gen 1:26 ¶ And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness:A covenant given to the fathers…one day is as thousdand years for us..at the end of the day, that word became flesh…to replemish and subdue the generations on earth …Gen 1:27 So God created man in his [own] image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. for God Had only the fathers that he first spoke thru..1Cr 15:46 Howbeit that [was] not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural;
The resurrection of the dead, is from the grave.(womb)
That of which John specks.. Saying the resurrection of Life, is the resurrection of Life, after the second death, the cross,
Which John is the only one to say the words???(resurrection AND of AND life)
occurs in 1 verse in the KJV
Page 1 / 1 (Jhn 5:29 – Jhn 5:29)
Jhn 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.Dead..that which was lost, saw corruption, notice nothing from Mark or Luke??
(resurrection AND of AND the AND dead)
occurs in 14 verses in the KJV
Page 1 / 1 (Mat 22:31 – Rev 20:5)
Mat 22:31 But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying,
Act 17:32 And when they heard of the resurrection of the dead, some mocked: and others said, We will hear thee again of this [matter].
Act 23:6 But when Paul perceived that the one part were Sadducees, and the other Pharisees, he cried out in the council, Men [and] brethren, I am a Pharisee, the son of a Pharisee: of the hope and resurrection of the dead I am called in question.
Act 24:15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.
Act 24:21 Except it be for this one voice, that I cried standing among them, Touching the resurrection of the dead I am called in question by you this day.
Rom 1:4 And declared [to be] the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:
1Cr 15:12 Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?
1Cr 15:13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:
1Cr 15:21 For since by man [came] death, by man [came] also the resurrection of the dead.
1Cr 15:42 So also [is] the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
Phl 3:11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
Hbr 6:2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
1Pe 1:3 Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This [is] the first resurrection. charityQuote (Is 1:18 @ July 15 2007,12:36) This is another absurd statement if Yeshua did not preexist: Matthew 11:27
“All things have been handed over to Me by My Father; and no one knows the Son except the Father; nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and anyone to whom the Son wills to reveal Him.No one knows the father except the Son? You would think that one of the hosts of heaven, who are in the company of the Father, would “know” the Father better than Yeshua. It's a very strange declaration if Yeshua did not preexist his incarnation….
Hi Isaiah,Of course you won't find it odd that I disagree with you.
Do you think a biological son would have been closer to Gepphetio than Pinoccio was? Pinoccio was created – a biological son would have shared much more and qualified for a closer bond.
I would imagine that the same goes for angels and the beloved Son of God. Angels were created; the Son is a part of the Father.
Paul even said that Jesus was greater than Moses. Why would Jesus be greater than Moses? Moses was a prophet, but Jesus is a true Son.
We are adopted.
Jesus already belongs.
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