Preexistence

[gollamudi]

Hi brothers Kerwin and Terraricca,
Who is believing lies will be revealed when the true Messiah will appear on scene. He will put stop to all lies. You seem to judge brothers by your allegations. That is not fair.

Please take care
Adam

[kerwin]

Quote (gollamudi @ Jan. 31 2010,10:04)

Hi brothers Kerwin and Terraricca, Who is believing lies will be revealed when the true Messiah will appear on scene. He will put stop to all lies. You seem to judge brothers by your allegations. That is not fair. Please take care Adam

Some of what you are repeating is clearly not true.   You seem to have a tendency to swallow what some Jews state while discounting anything that disagrees.   I do not know why this is but it is not healthy.

The bottom line is God commands his people to be righteous as he is righteous.   Jesus teaches us that God does not leave us alone to accomplish that but has provided a way though obeying all of Jesus' teachings.  

Many false teachers want to make people feel good about themselves even though they continue to disobey God and so they tell them what amounts to “you can go on sinning and God will not demand your life”.  Some will also tell them whatever is needed to control their hearers,  Other false teachers may be driven by other evil desires.

You have to to watch yourself that you too do not fall into error.

[Elizabeth]

Quote (gollamudi @ Jan. 23 2010,20:23)

Hi Sis Irene, Good morning to you. Believing in Jesus is only according to our Christian scriptures not according to any Hebrew scriptures. Once you know that Jesus is not God there end the matter you need not depend on any man to reach God. God is directly available to any one who sincerely approach Him. No Jew requires a mediator to approach God.

Adam!  I want to say something else to you.  First there is no trinity.  Prove is
Deut. 4:35
Deut. 6:4 1 Corinth. 8:4
Ephesians 4:6
And by Jesus own words in John 14:28 …. My Father is greater then I.
The trinity doctrine is a man made doctrine and not of God.  It was Quintus Septimus Florens Tertullian that came up with it.  The first Christians were tortured and killed the first three century and it was Constantine who put an end to it.  But He changed the Sabbath worship to Sunday.  Also we do not go by God's Calendar, but the Roman.  We don't keep any of the Holy Days listed in Lev. 23.  But I also  have proven to myself that the Sabbath is a sign between God and the Children of Israel.  Exodus 31:16-17 and the Old Covenant in Exodus 34:27-28.
The Jewish people of today are not the Jewish people of the first century.  Many did become Christians.  But not all.  here is a Scripture in Rev. that states that those that call them self Jewish are not at all, and I am not saying anything else about that.  Read it yourself and search it out.  

You say that in the Hebrew Jesus is not the Messiah, yet you never give us any Scripture that  proves that.
In Isaiah it talks about Jesus many times.  So some have said that He is not mentioned in the Old Test. which is not so.  
Then some will say because I believe in the preexisting of Jesus, I should believe in the trinity.  Wrong, the one has nothing to do with the other.
As far as not coming in the Believers section, yes.  If you do not believe in Jesus you do not have the Father either. Kejonnn had to leave and that is so, so should you be treated differently?  If you don't believe in Jesus , you should not be aloud to be in the Believers section, that would only be fair to Kejonn.  Also there is Scriptures that state that Jesus is God.
Hebrew 1:8 and John 1:1  But when we understand that He is the Son of God and God is a title we should not have any problems with the word God. You say no Jew needs a Mediator to approach God.  You do know that they have to have a High Priest to approach God don't you?  He offers up the Sacrifice for their Sins.  We don't have to do that.  We go through Jesus to ask for the forgiveness of our Sins our self, we don't need a High Priest, Jesus is.  There is a big difference here.   In one of the posts you make the statement that you are so fed up with us.  And I responded to leave and go to the Jews if you like them better.  I still say that.  The Jew's killed my Savior and they will not admit that.  Also I know some Jewish People and we used to have a Jewish Bakery and the Rabbi is the Boss.  Don't do anything that is not Kosher.  Even using a S.O.S. Pad to clean is wrong.  I know all about their practises and I do not agree with their practices.
Peace and Love Irene

[Ed J]

Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 01 2010,01:00)

The bottom line is God commands his people to be righteous as he is righteous.   Jesus teaches us that God does not leave us alone to accomplish that but has provided a way though obeying all of Jesus' teachings.   Many false teachers want to make people good about themselves even though they continue to disobey God and so they tell them what amounts to “you can go on sinning and God will not demand your life”.  Some will also tell them whatever is needed to control their hearers,  Other false teachers may be driven by other evil desires. You have to to watch yourself that you too do not fall into error.

Hi Kerwin,

Good insight!

Your brother in Christ.
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[chosenone]

Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 01 2010,01:00)

The bottom line is God commands his people to be righteous as he is righteous. Jesus teaches us that God does not leave us alone to accomplish that but has provided a way though obeying all of Jesus' teachings.

kerwin.
You make a commom mistake, Jesus teachings are for Israel, and for them only, Matt.15:24 … Now He, answering, said, “I was not commissioned except for the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”
Jesus taught Israel, Gods “chosen people” who were under the “Old Covenant” which was 'obedience to the Law'.

The nations at that era, were 'without God'. Eph2:11-12
…11 Wherefore, remember that once you, the nations in flesh — who are termed 'Uncircumcision' by those termed 'Circumcision,' in flesh, made by hands —
12 that you were, in that era, apart from Christ, being alienated from the citizenship of Israel, and guests of the promise covenants, having no expectation, and without God in the world.

This is what Paul teaches when he said … “Endeavor to present yourself to God qualified, an unashamed worker, correctly cutting the word of truth”. (2Tim.2:15)

Blessings, Jerry.

[kerwin]

Quote (chosenone @ Feb. 02 2010,12:49)

Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 01 2010,01:00) The bottom line is God commands his people to be righteous as he is righteous.   Jesus teaches us that God does not leave us alone to accomplish that but has provided a way though obeying all of Jesus' teachings. kerwin.   You make a commom mistake, Jesus teachings are for Israel, and for them only,   Matt.15:24   … Now He, answering, said, “I was not commissioned except for the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”   Jesus taught Israel, Gods “chosen people” who were under the “Old Covenant” which was 'obedience to the Law'.   The nations at that era, were 'without God'.  Eph2:11-12     …11 Wherefore, remember that once you, the nations in flesh — who are termed 'Uncircumcision' by those termed 'Circumcision,' in flesh, made by hands — 12 that you were, in that era, apart from Christ, being alienated from the citizenship of Israel, and guests of the promise covenants, having no expectation, and without God in the world.   This is what Paul teaches when he said  … “Endeavor to present yourself to God qualified, an unashamed worker, correctly cutting the word of truth”. (2Tim.2:15) Blessings,  Jerry.

Malachi 3:6(NIV) reads:

Quote

“I the LORD do not change. So you, O descendants of Jacob, are not destroyed.

It is obvious God does not change so anyone teaching that he does is spreading a teaching of the evil one.

God wants the same of the children of Israel that he wants of all the nations.  To assume different is to be ignorant of God.  God commands us all to righteous as he is righteous and he provided a way in the Anointed One.

Jesus came and taught to the Jews what would be and then appointed Paul to teach to both Jews and Gentiles what was.  This is done so that scripture would be fulfilled and the word of God would come out of Jerusalem.  

Isaiah 2:1-5 and Micah 4:1-5 speak of this time.

I assure you that the word of God does not change like the shifting sands.

[Proclaimer]

Quote (chosenone @ Feb. 02 2010,17:49)

kerwin. You make a commom mistake, Jesus teachings are for Israel, and for them only, Matt.15:24 … Now He, answering, said, “I was not commissioned except for the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” Jesus taught Israel, Gods “chosen people” who were under the “Old Covenant” which was 'obedience to the Law'.

Correct me if I am wrong, but did not Jesus command his chosen to preach all that he taught them and that the gospel would start in Jerusalem and eventually to the utmost part of the world.

Jesus focussed on the Jewish people, but he expected his disciples to preach to all the world, but in a pattern of spreading out from Jerusalem.

[kerwin]

Quote (t8 @ Feb. 02 2010,16:32)

Quote (chosenone @ Feb. 02 2010,17:49) kerwin.  You make a commom mistake, Jesus teachings are for Israel, and for them only,   Matt.15:24   … Now He, answering, said, “I was not commissioned except for the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”  Jesus taught Israel, Gods “chosen people” who were under the “Old Covenant” which was 'obedience to the Law'. Correct me if I am wrong, but did not Jesus command his chosen to preach all that he taught them and that the gospel would start in Jerusalem and eventually to the utmost part of the world. Jesus focussed on the Jewish people, but he expected his disciples to preach to all the world, but in a pattern of spreading out from Jerusalem.

Good Point!!

[terraricca]

hi
YOU KNOW BOTH COMMENT S ARE TRUE ,BUT IF YOU COMBIND THEM YOU MAY BETTER UNDERSTAND WHAT THE REAL TRUTH IS.PROMESED PRIVILEGE HIS ONLY FOR A TIME.
Quote (t8 @ Feb. 02 2010,16:32)
Quote (chosenone @ Feb. 02 2010,17:49)
kerwin.
You make a commom mistake, Jesus teachings are for Israel, and for them only, Matt.15:24 … Now He, answering, said, “I was not commissioned except for the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”
Jesus taught Israel, Gods “chosen people” who were under the “Old Covenant” which was 'obedience to the Law'.

Correct me if I am wrong, but did not Jesus command his chosen to preach all that he taught them and that the gospel would start in Jerusalem and eventually to the utmost part of the world.

Jesus focussed on the Jewish people, but he expected his disciples to preach to all the world, but in a pattern of spreading out from Jerusalem.

[kerwin]

Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 02 2010,19:01)

hi YOU KNOW BOTH COMMENT S ARE TRUE ,BUT IF YOU COMBIND THEM YOU MAY BETTER UNDERSTAND WHAT THE REAL TRUTH IS.PROMESED PRIVILEGE HIS ONLY FOR A TIME. Quote (t8 @ Feb. 02 2010,16:32) Quote (chosenone @ Feb. 02 2010,17:49) kerwin. You make a commom mistake, Jesus teachings are for Israel, and for them only,   Matt.15:24   … Now He, answering, said, “I was not commissioned except for the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” Jesus taught Israel, Gods “chosen people” who were under the “Old Covenant” which was 'obedience to the Law'. Correct me if I am wrong, but did not Jesus command his chosen to preach all that he taught them and that the gospel would start in Jerusalem and eventually to the utmost part of the world. Jesus focussed on the Jewish people, but he expected his disciples to preach to all the world, but in a pattern of spreading out from Jerusalem.

That is what Isaiah and Micah stated would happen.

[Elizabeth]

Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 03 2010,00:01)

hi YOU KNOW BOTH COMMENT S ARE TRUE ,BUT IF YOU COMBIND THEM YOU MAY BETTER UNDERSTAND WHAT THE REAL TRUTH IS.PROMESED PRIVILEGE HIS ONLY FOR A TIME. Quote (t8 @ Feb. 02 2010,16:32) Quote (chosenone @ Feb. 02 2010,17:49) kerwin. You make a commom mistake, Jesus teachings are for Israel, and for them only,   Matt.15:24   … Now He, answering, said, “I was not commissioned except for the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” Jesus taught Israel, Gods “chosen people” who were under the “Old Covenant” which was 'obedience to the Law'. Correct me if I am wrong, but did not Jesus command his chosen to preach all that he taught them and that the gospel would start in Jerusalem and eventually to the utmost part of the world. Jesus focussed on the Jewish people, but he expected his disciples to preach to all the world, but in a pattern of spreading out from Jerusalem.

Was Paul not commissioned to teach to the Gentiles. Not only that in
Math. 28:18 And Jesus came unto them saying:” All power is given unto Me in Heaven and in Earth.
verse 19 Go ye therefore, and teach in all the nations, baptizing them:” In the name of the Father and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.
verse 20 Teaching them to observe all things whatever i have commanded you, and lo I am with you always, even to the end of the world. Amen
You are right as far as Jesus was teaching to the lost sheep of Israel, but that does not matter for anyone else. He commissioned Paul and everybody to do what He said in Math. 28:18-20.
So t8 in right. Besides that this tread is on the preexisting of Jesus
One more thing. When it says to baptize in the Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, it really should say and of His Holy Spirit, the Fathers Spirit. Otherwise Ephesians contradicts it. I wonder what happened to Adam??
Peace and Love Irene

[chosenone]

Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 02 2010,18:08)

Quote (chosenone @ Feb. 02 2010,12:49) Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 01 2010,01:00) The bottom line is God commands his people to be righteous as he is righteous.   Jesus teaches us that God does not leave us alone to accomplish that but has provided a way though obeying all of Jesus' teachings. kerwin.   You make a commom mistake, Jesus teachings are for Israel, and for them only,   Matt.15:24   … Now He, answering, said, “I was not commissioned except for the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”   Jesus taught Israel, Gods “chosen people” who were under the “Old Covenant” which was 'obedience to the Law'.   The nations at that era, were 'without God'.  Eph2:11-12     …11 Wherefore, remember that once you, the nations in flesh — who are termed 'Uncircumcision' by those termed 'Circumcision,' in flesh, made by hands — 12 that you were, in that era, apart from Christ, being alienated from the citizenship of Israel, and guests of the promise covenants, having no expectation, and without God in the world.   This is what Paul teaches when he said  … “Endeavor to present yourself to God qualified, an unashamed worker, correctly cutting the word of truth”. (2Tim.2:15) Blessings,  Jerry. Malachi 3:6(NIV) reads: Quote “I the LORD do not change. So you, O descendants of Jacob, are not destroyed. It is obvious God does not change so anyone teaching that he does is spreading a teaching of the evil one. God wants the same of the children of Israel that he wants of all the nations.  To assume different is to be ignorant of God.  God commands us all to righteous as he is righteous and he provided a way in the Anointed One. Jesus came and taught to the Jews what would be and then appointed Paul to teach to both Jews and Gentiles what was.  This is done so that scripture would be fulfilled and the word of God would come out of Jerusalem.   Isaiah 2:1-5 and Micah 4:1-5 speak of this time. I assure you that the word of God does not change like the shifting sands.

kerwin.
I have never said or implied that God has changed. I agree, He (God) is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow.
But surely you see that His dealings with mankind are different as time goes on. His dealings with Israel, His chosen people under the “Old Covenant” were certainly different from His dealings with the nations at this present time. Just look at the book of Deuteronomy, where the “Law” they (Israel)were to obey is recorded, are you saying that we are still to obey all those laws? Just take some time and read about it, are we to circumcise our males, refrain from eating certain foods, keep all the 'festivals', the day of atonement by fasting the whole day. These are just a very few of the laws, read about them. Aslo the scriptures are full of things that God will do in the future. Just look in the book of Hebrews, what He will do in the future with them.
I could go on and on about the changes God has made, and will make, in the future. Show me where Gods word has always been the same for everyone, I can't believe that you can't see how His dealings with the Jews under the “Law', and His dealings with all nations, now by 'Grace', were always the same.

Blessings, Jerry.

[chosenone]

Quote (t8 @ Feb. 02 2010,21:32)

Quote (chosenone @ Feb. 02 2010,17:49) kerwin.  You make a commom mistake, Jesus teachings are for Israel, and for them only,   Matt.15:24   … Now He, answering, said, “I was not commissioned except for the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”  Jesus taught Israel, Gods “chosen people” who were under the “Old Covenant” which was 'obedience to the Law'. Correct me if I am wrong, but did not Jesus command his chosen to preach all that he taught them and that the gospel would start in Jerusalem and eventually to the utmost part of the world. Jesus focussed on the Jewish people, but he expected his disciples to preach to all the world, but in a pattern of spreading out from Jerusalem.

Hi t8
Here is an explanation of Matt.28: where Jesus tells His deciples to “go preach to all the world:…

This account is principally concerned with the rejection of the kingdom. How fitting that it should close with a preview of its establishment in the coming eon! The place is significant. Satan took Him to a high mountain to show Him the kingdoms of the earth. The transformation was on a mountain. The place speaks of His exaltation. This will not be realized until He comes in glory. He has not yet taken His great power (Un.11:17). The apostles never went out to all nations. On the contrary, Peter was opposed when he went to the proselyte Cornelius (Ac.11:3). They never baptized in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit. They used the titles of Christ intelligently when they baptized. They used “Jesus Christ” in baptizing Israelites, “Lord Jesus” for Samaritans (Ac.8:16). They never used “Christ Jesus,” the title of His present heavenly glory. They never used the formula here given because they knew that it was reserved for the future kingdom proclamation. They never discipled the nations, as such. The Lord was not with them till the conclusion of that eon, but left them soon after, when He ascended. This commission cannot be carried out until His return in power and glory to bless all nations through His people Israel.

Blessings.

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (chosenone @ Feb. 02 2010,21:52)

Quote (t8 @ Feb. 02 2010,21:32) Quote (chosenone @ Feb. 02 2010,17:49) kerwin.  You make a commom mistake, Jesus teachings are for Israel, and for them only,   Matt.15:24   … Now He, answering, said, “I was not commissioned except for the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”  Jesus taught Israel, Gods “chosen people” who were under the “Old Covenant” which was 'obedience to the Law'. Correct me if I am wrong, but did not Jesus command his chosen to preach all that he taught them and that the gospel would start in Jerusalem and eventually to the utmost part of the world. Jesus focussed on the Jewish people, but he expected his disciples to preach to all the world, but in a pattern of spreading out from Jerusalem. Hi t8   Here is an explanation of Matt.28: where Jesus tells His deciples to “go preach to all the world:… This account is principally concerned with the rejection of the kingdom. How fitting that it should close with a preview of its establishment in the coming eon! The place is significant. Satan took Him to a high mountain to show Him the kingdoms of the earth. The transformation was on a mountain. The place speaks of His exaltation. This will not be realized until He comes in glory. He has not yet taken His great power (Un.11:17). The apostles never went out to all nations. On the contrary, Peter was opposed when he went to the proselyte Cornelius (Ac.11:3). They never baptized in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit. They used the titles of Christ intelligently when they baptized. They used “Jesus Christ” in baptizing Israelites, “Lord Jesus” for Samaritans (Ac.8:16). They never used “Christ Jesus,” the title of His present heavenly glory. They never used the formula here given because they knew that it was reserved for the future kingdom proclamation. They never discipled the nations, as such. The Lord was not with them till the conclusion of that eon, but left them soon after, when He ascended. This commission cannot be carried out until His return in power and glory to bless all nations through His people Israel. Blessings.

CO

You should quote your source or it could be considered as Plagerism!

Blessings WJ

[kerwin]

Choosenone wrote:

Quote

Just look at the book of Deuteronomy, where the “Law” they (Israel) were to obey is recorded, are you saying that we are still to obey all those laws?

I believe you misunderstand God on this.  In the law of Mosses the Gentiles that lived among the Children of Israel were not held to the same standards as the same standards as the Hebrews as some laws did not apply to them or were applied differently.  God had a reason for this as his laws are based on his love for all his people whether Jew or Gentile.  

I have to state that we do have to obey all the commandments that apply to us in our situation.   If we lived in the lands God gave to the Hebrew peoples then that would mean we obey the commandment in the law of Mosses that are the laws of that land and which apply to Gentiles.  Note: I am assuming you like myself am a Gentile.   An additional Note: I believe they are mostly regarding holidays such as the Sabbath day.

Here is some example of commands to Gentiles referred to as aliens in the New International Version.   It is about God’s command to obey the authorities he has placed over you.  Titus 3:1 and Romans 13:1

Exodus 12:40(NIV) reads:

Quote

“An alien living among you who wants to celebrate the LORD's Passover must have all the males in his household circumcised; then he may take part like one born in the land. No uncircumcised male may eat of it.

And

Exodus 12:19(NIV) reads:

Quote

For seven days no yeast is to be found in your houses. And whoever eats anything with yeast in it must be cut off from the community of Israel, whether he is an alien or native-born.

And

Exodus 20:10(NIV) reads:

Quote

but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your manservant or maidservant, nor your animals, nor the alien within your gates.

This would apply to resident Gentiles and not necessary to visiting Gentiles.   Note that my uncertainty is because I have not done any research one way or another about visiting Gentiles.

Then there are those laws that are about morality which can also be referred to as the righteous requirements of the law and apply to both Hebrew and Gentile equally.  These laws are often addressed in the writing of Paul and other students of Jesus.

Galatians 5:19-21(NIV) reads:

Quote

The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

And

Romans 1:28-32(NIV) reads:

Quote

Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done. They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31they are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless. Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.

And

Colossians 3:5-10(NIV) reads:

Quote

Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry. Because of these, the wrath of God is coming. You used to walk in these ways, in the life you once lived. But now you must rid yourselves of all such things as these: anger, rage, malice, slander, and filthy language from your lips. Do not lie to each other, since you have taken off your old self with its practices and have put on the new self, which is being renewed in knowledge in the image of its Creator.

None of these lists are all inclusive.  What is all inclusive is living according to the ways of the Spirit and that way is love for love is the sum of the law.

I am only addressing how the Law of Mosses applies to Gentiles under the new covenant.    It applies to Jews is a different way but not the same as under the old.  The sacrificial laws for instance have been replaced by the sacrifice of Jesus while the ceremonial laws though a symbol of things to what has now come can still be practiced.  Paul did the later on his trip to Jerusalem.[/quote]

Acts 21:24(NIV) reads:

Quote

Take these men, join in their purification rites and pay their expenses, so that they can have their heads shaved. Then everybody will know there is no truth in these reports about you, but that you yourself are living in obedience to the law

We also have an account in Acts 16:1-3 when Paul and others circumcised Timothy because his mother was a Jew.    Only Jews or Gentile Converts were circumcised.  

Note: I am assuming that Exodus 12:40 speaks of Gentile converts.   In the United States this would be equivalent to when an alien chooses to become a citizen of the United States.

[kerwin]

Quote (chosenone @ Feb. 03 2010,08:52)

Quote (t8 @ Feb. 02 2010,21:32) Quote (chosenone @ Feb. 02 2010,17:49) kerwin.  You make a commom mistake, Jesus teachings are for Israel, and for them only,   Matt.15:24   … Now He, answering, said, “I was not commissioned except for the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”  Jesus taught Israel, Gods “chosen people” who were under the “Old Covenant” which was 'obedience to the Law'. Correct me if I am wrong, but did not Jesus command his chosen to preach all that he taught them and that the gospel would start in Jerusalem and eventually to the utmost part of the world. Jesus focussed on the Jewish people, but he expected his disciples to preach to all the world, but in a pattern of spreading out from Jerusalem. Hi t8   Here is an explanation of Matt.28: where Jesus tells His deciples to “go preach to all the world:… This account is principally concerned with the rejection of the kingdom. How fitting that it should close with a preview of its establishment in the coming eon! The place is significant. Satan took Him to a high mountain to show Him the kingdoms of the earth. The transformation was on a mountain. The place speaks of His exaltation. This will not be realized until He comes in glory. He has not yet taken His great power (Un.11:17). The apostles never went out to all nations. On the contrary, Peter was opposed when he went to the proselyte Cornelius (Ac.11:3). They never baptized in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit. They used the titles of Christ intelligently when they baptized. They used “Jesus Christ” in baptizing Israelites, “Lord Jesus” for Samaritans (Ac.8:16). They never used “Christ Jesus,” the title of His present heavenly glory. They never used the formula here given because they knew that it was reserved for the future kingdom proclamation. They never discipled the nations, as such. The Lord was not with them till the conclusion of that eon, but left them soon after, when He ascended. This commission cannot be carried out until His return in power and glory to bless all nations through His people Israel. Blessings.

Choosenone,

Name = authority in the context of baptism.  The authority that Jesus wields comes from God who appointed him Lord of everything in heaven and on earth.

In other words the authority of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost is the same authority wielded by the Son alone as God works through his Son via the Holy Spirit.

John 14:11(NIV) reads:

Quote

Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the miracles themselves.

Here is another scripture I believe applies:

John 16:23-24(NIV) reads:

Quote

In that day you will no longer ask me anything. I tell you the truth, my Father will give you whatever you ask in my name. Until now you have not asked for anything in my name. Ask and you will receive, and your joy will be complete.

[chosenone]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 03 2010,14:05)

Quote (chosenone @ Feb. 02 2010,21:52) Quote (t8 @ Feb. 02 2010,21:32) Quote (chosenone @ Feb. 02 2010,17:49) kerwin.  You make a commom mistake, Jesus teachings are for Israel, and for them only,   Matt.15:24   … Now He, answering, said, “I was not commissioned except for the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”  Jesus taught Israel, Gods “chosen people” who were under the “Old Covenant” which was 'obedience to the Law'. Correct me if I am wrong, but did not Jesus command his chosen to preach all that he taught them and that the gospel would start in Jerusalem and eventually to the utmost part of the world. Jesus focussed on the Jewish people, but he expected his disciples to preach to all the world, but in a pattern of spreading out from Jerusalem. Hi t8   Here is an explanation of Matt.28: where Jesus tells His deciples to “go preach to all the world:… This account is principally concerned with the rejection of the kingdom. How fitting that it should close with a preview of its establishment in the coming eon! The place is significant. Satan took Him to a high mountain to show Him the kingdoms of the earth. The transformation was on a mountain. The place speaks of His exaltation. This will not be realized until He comes in glory. He has not yet taken His great power (Un.11:17). The apostles never went out to all nations. On the contrary, Peter was opposed when he went to the proselyte Cornelius (Ac.11:3). They never baptized in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit. They used the titles of Christ intelligently when they baptized. They used “Jesus Christ” in baptizing Israelites, “Lord Jesus” for Samaritans (Ac.8:16). They never used “Christ Jesus,” the title of His present heavenly glory. They never used the formula here given because they knew that it was reserved for the future kingdom proclamation. They never discipled the nations, as such. The Lord was not with them till the conclusion of that eon, but left them soon after, when He ascended. This commission cannot be carried out until His return in power and glory to bless all nations through His people Israel. Blessings. CO You should quote your source or it could be considered as Plagerism! Blessings WJ

Concordant Publishing Concern. Satisfied?

[chosenone]

kerwin.
I'm trying to make the point that God DOES change the way He is dealing with His creation, that you seem to deny. I'll just use one scripture for simplicity. Eph.2:11-12 …
11 Wherefore, remember that once you, the nations in flesh — who are termed 'Uncircumcision' by those termed 'Circumcision,' in flesh, made by hands —
12 that you were, in that era, apart from Christ, being alienated from the citizenship of Israel, and guests of the promise covenants, having no expectation, and without God in the world.

This scripture plainly explains that we Gentiles (you assumed correctly, I am a gentile) where in “that era”, God was a God to Israel, and them only. We gentiles were “without God in the world”.

We are now included, explained in Acts13:46 …Being bold, both Paul and Barnabas, say, “To you (Israel) first was it necessary that the word of God be spoken. Yet, since, in fact, you are thrusting it away, and are judging yourselves not worthy of eonian life, lo! we are turning to the nations.

This example shows that God does change things in His dealings with mankind.

Eph.1:11 …according to the purpose of the One Who is operating all in accord with the counsel of His will,

Blessings.

[kerwin]

Choosenone wrote:

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I'm trying to make the point that God DOES change the way He is dealing with His creation, that you seem to deny.  I'll just use one scripture for simplicity.   Eph.2:11-12   …

I believe I addressed part if your point already.   Paul is speaking of circumcise which was done only with those who were Jews or decided to become Jews.  There are Gentiles in the scripture that God also preached to.   In fact in the book of Jonah the prophet of that name was sent to Gentile city of Nineveh and those Gentiles were credited with righteousness for obeying the dictates of God.  Jonah was not the only prophet that spoke the word of God to Gentile nations but he spoke solely Gentiles in the book of his name.   God also stated he chose to do that since he was concerned with both the people and cattle of that city.

Apart from Christ does not mean without God.   It does mean outside the covenant of God as the law of circumcision was made with Abraham and his descendents and not with the Gentiles.

Genesis 17:9-14(NIV) reads:

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Then God said to Abraham, “As for you, you must keep my covenant, you and your descendants after you for the generations to come. 10 This is my covenant with you and your descendants after you, the covenant you are to keep: Every male among you shall be circumcised. 11 You are to undergo circumcision, and it will be the sign of the covenant between me and you. 12 For the generations to come every male among you who is eight days old must be circumcised, including those born in your household or bought with money from a foreigner—those who are not your offspring. 13 Whether born in your household or bought with your money, they must be circumcised. My covenant in your flesh is to be an everlasting covenant. 14 Any uncircumcised male, who has not been circumcised in the flesh, will be cut off from his people; he has broken my covenant.”

On the other hand the circumcision of the heart which is the result of the new covenant is for both Gentiles and Jews.

Paul also taught:

Romans 2:28-29reads:

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A man is not a Jew if he is only one outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical. No, a man is a Jew if he is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a man's praise is not from men, but from God.

The spirit is the gift of the new covenant as the Sabbath was the gift of the old.

This is not a case of God changing his ways but doing all things at their proper times.  The promise was first given to Abraham and then through Abraham’s seed the Spirit was given to all.

[terraricca]

hi CO

God does not change;EPH 1:4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him

so God never change and do not use counsel , he give counsel to all

I will instruct you and teach you in the way which you should go;
I will counsel you with My eye upon you.
PS 33:10 The LORD nullifies the counsel of the nations;
He frustrates the plans of the peoples.
PS 33:11 The counsel of the LORD stands forever,
The plans of His heart from generation to generation

They, however, were rebellious in their counsel,
And so sank down in their iniquity.
PS 107:11 Because they had rebelled against the words of God
And spurned the counsel of the Most High

PR 27:9 Oil and perfume make the heart glad,
So a man’s counsel is sweet to his friend

JER 32:19 great in counsel and mighty in deed, whose eyes are open to all the ways of the sons of men, giving to everyone according to his ways and according to the fruit of his deeds

it talks about the son of men,you see it ?

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