Preexistence

[terraricca]

hi all
those anyone understand the miracle of the water changed in wine ???
because Christ never did something without reason

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (martian @ Dec. 10 2009,14:08)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 11 2009,04:52) Quote (martian @ Dec. 10 2009,12:06) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 10 2009,05:25) Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 09 2009,01:50) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 09 2009,05:38) Quote (martian @ Dec. 08 2009,14:47) Quote (thethinker @ Dec. 08 2009,22:00) Quote (martian @ Dec. 08 2009,06:07) Quote (thethinker @ Dec. 08 2009,05:00) Quote (Gene @ Dec. 08 2009,04:07) WJ…………Why go to the Greeks to learn, why not let the Spirit of GOD TEACH YOU the TRUTH> “Brethern you have (NO) need of a teacher , for the Spirit (ITSELF) shall teach you all things”. The Spirit (intellect) to recognize truth is the guiding light.  Surely not the Greeks and your 200 scholars who run you around a thousand rabbit trails and causing you to ever learn but never coming into the true Knowledge of GOD. IMO peace and love to you and yours……………..gene Uh Gene, It is your man Martian who goes to the Greeks to learn. Martian believes that the Logos means “speech.” This was the view of Plato a Greek philosopher. Plato taught that the Logos of John 1:1 was “verbal expression or thought.” So it is you and Martian who “go to the Greeks to learn.” Plato 's views were based in a mixture of mystery religions. Yet you guys acccuse trinitarians of believing in a mystery religion. Take the log out of your own eye Gene! thinker Yep I went to the greek language as explained in Bible dictionaries.  just like WJ does. Martian, You are twisting what Gene said about not going to the Greeks. He was saying that we should not base our views on their philosophies which is what you are doing. Plato taught your nonsense that “logos” means “speech.” Your inference that “speech” created all things (vs. 3) and then became flesh is intellectual suicide. If you are paying attention to the dictionaries you would be aware that the word “logos” comes from the root “legoo” which means “to speak.” The “logos” therefore is one who speaks. It was one who speaks that created all things and who became flesh. Verse 18 substantiates this by saying that the Son “exegeted” God. Give it up dude! The “Logos” is not about mere speech. It is about one who speaks. thinker That's silly. I have read at least a dozen Bible Dictionaries and none of them say it is about the person speaking. It is the action of expressing a thought or idea. You are personifying the word. Exactly, and who else is personifying the Word [logos]? And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called “The Word [logos] of God. Rev 19:13 Also 1 John 1:1-3. WJ Ephesians 3:14-15(KJV) reads: Quote For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named, Yes Kerwin And who else is every knee going to bow to? Thats another one of those “hey Arians, you will never be like Jesus in that way”? WJ Are you still tying the same old trick? You are taking an attribute of Christ after his resurrection and comparing it to what we are to follow before his resurrection. YHWH gives Christ all power in heaven and Earth. Yhwh puts everything under subjection to the man Christ. this makes him Lord of Lord (master of masters) and King of Kings (king of all earthly kings) When all is done Christ puts himself and the kingdom back under subjection of the father. (co-equal?) Martian Are you still following the same fallacious line of reasoning? How about when you are resurrected and become like him will you be like him in that way? Will the Angels worship you? Will the Spirit proceed from you and the Father to all of Creation? Rev 22:1 Jesus had the Spirit “without measure”, do you know what that means? Only God could have the Spirit without measure. Therefore your logic fails for no man singularly has or ever had or ever will have that. That was before his resurrection and gave him an advantage over us. So much for that straw man! Are you only serving another anointed man in the flesh or a resurrected Jesus? Another point is if Jesus puts himself and the Kingdom into subjection to the Father so that God can be all in all, then that would mean that Jesus and the Kingdom at this time is not subject to the Father!!!   Hello, that means that he is equal to the Father! Remember he is on the right hand of the Father, not beneath him nor above him but at his right hand! So much for that straw man too. WJ TALK ABOUT GAMES. YOU AGAIN TAKE THINGS THAT ARE AFTER HIS RESURRECTION AND PUT THEM BEFORE. Can God give authority to a man if He wishes? Did God Give Christ all authority in heaven and earth? You know what I give up. You are thinker are right.God is triune and Jesus is God. NOW WHAT? HOW DOES THAT HELP ME? HOW DOES THAT EDIFY ME? HOW DOES SHOW CHRIST TO ME AS AN EXAMPLE? HOW DO I KNOW WHICH OF THE THINGS CHRIST DID I CAN DO? HOW CAN I TRUST IN A GOD WHOSE CHA RACTER CAN CHANGE TO BE TEMPTABLE OR CAPABLE OF SIN? IS THAT AL YOU HAVE IS GREEK TENSES AND PHILOSOPHY GOOD FOR NOTHING BUT DEBATE ON A FORUM? WHAT A WASTE FOR EVERYONE!!! Is all you are looking for is some intellectual understanding to flaunt about? Even realizing that all of our intellects can be fooled and deceived. (even those that teach tenses in Greek) IF FLAUNTING YOUR UNDERSTANDING OF GREEK GETS YOU KUDOS FROM THINKER AND OTHERS, HAVE AT IT.  ENJOY YOURSELF. As for me I will take a Christ that is a perfect example for me and a gospel truth that actually does something in my life. In the end you have nothing but a supposed intellectual understanding that produces nothing. Your doctrine is a philosophical joke!!! It makes no difference what you or your supposed experts say. If it produces no fruit, it is worthless except as a philosophy.

I knew it would eventually get to the personal attacks.

Rather than address the points like Jesus subjecting himself to the Father means he is not subject now and that makes him equal to the Father, he just rants about how we are wrong and he is right.

Its not about being right or wrong, it is about the truth and apparantly Martian doesn't believe that truth can be in written form like here in open discussion on this forum.

Quote (martian @ Dec. 10 2009,14:08)

[In the end you have nothing but a supposed intellectual understanding that produces nothing. Your doctrine is a philosophical joke!!! It makes no difference what you or your supposed experts say. If it produces no fruit, it is worthless except as a philosophy.

This is circular, for how would you know if what I believe produces fruit since you say there is no fruit in this dialogue you call entertainment?

Whats your next move Martian?

We have been here before.

WJ

[KangarooJack]

Martian said:

Quote

You know what I give up. You are thinker are right.God is triune and Jesus is God. NOW WHAT? HOW DOES THAT HELP ME? HOW DOES THAT EDIFY ME? HOW DOES SHOW CHRIST TO ME AS AN EXAMPLE? HOW DO I KNOW WHICH OF THE THINGS CHRIST DID I CAN DO?

Martian,

So you are your own counselor now? God deemed it fitting that your high priest be different from you.

“For such a High Priest was fitting for us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and has become higher than the heavens” (Heb. 7:26)

Yet you think you know better than your counselor.

Martian:

Quote

HOW CAN I TRUST IN A GOD WHOSE CHARACTER CAN CHANGE TO BE TEMPTABLE OR CAPABLE OF SIN?

You should trust in Jesus Christ who is “the same yesterday, today and forever” (Heb. 13:8). The Scriptures know nothing of a changeable Jesus.

thinker

[KangarooJack]

WorshippingJesus said to Martian:

Quote

Whats your next move Martian? We have been here before.

You can always tell who is the loser in an argument. The loser gets angry. Martian seems to be getting close.

thinker

[terraricca]

hi WJ
it seems you beleive in the trinity,and you pick up a couple verse twisted them and then ,twist the all scriptures to fit you pagan believes ,if you believe in christ you would not believe in the trinity ,but godly truth is not part of you ,your vision of truth is because it is part of you like everyone els story.

[KangarooJack]

Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 11 2009,12:24)

hi WJ it seems you beleive in the trinity,and you pick up a couple verse twisted them and then ,twist the all scriptures to fit you pagan believes ,if you believe in christ you would not believe in the trinity ,but godly truth is not part of you ,your vision of truth is because it is part of you like everyone els story.

t,
Explain Jude verses 4-5:

4″For certain people have crept in unnoticed who long ago were designated for this condemnation, ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into sensuality and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.
5Now I want to remind you, although you once fully knew it, that Jesus, who saved a people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe.”

It says that JESUS saved them from Egypt. Will you deny this too?

thinker

[Constitutionalist]

Quote (thethinker @ Dec. 10 2009,18:09)

Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 11 2009,12:24) hi WJ it seems you beleive in the trinity,and you pick up a couple verse twisted them and then ,twist the all scriptures to fit you pagan believes ,if you believe in christ you would not believe in the trinity ,but godly truth is not part of you ,your vision of truth is because it is part of you like everyone els story. t, Explain Jude verses 4-5: 4″For certain people have crept in unnoticed who long ago were designated for this condemnation, ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into sensuality and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ. 5Now I want to remind you, although you once fully knew it, that Jesus, who saved a people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe.” It says that JESUS saved them from Egypt. Will you deny this too? thinker

Don't know where you got “Jesus” from the original Greek has “Lord – Kuros”.

In fact the last time I remember seeing someone switching Lord for “Jesus” was the Catholic Church, they had it in there Catholic Bible.

Quote

Jude 1:4 Greek Study Bible (Apostolic / Interlinear) παρεισεδύησαν γάρ τινες ἄνθρωποι, οἱ πάλαι προγεγραμμένοι εἰς τοῦτο τὸ κρίμα, ἀσεβεῖς τὴν τοῦ θεοῦ ἡμῶν χάριτα μετατιθέντες εἰς ἀσέλγειαν καὶ τὸν μόνον δεσπότην καὶ κύριον ἡμῶν Ἰησοῦν Χριστὸν ἀρνούμενοι. KJV with Strong's For there are certain men crept in unawares who were before of old ordained to this condemnation ungodly men turning the grace of our G-d into lasciviousness and denying the only Lord G-d and our Lord Jesus Christ

Quote

Jude 1:5 Greek Study Bible (Apostolic / Interlinear) Ὑπομνῆσαι δὲ ὑμᾶς βούλομαι, εἰδότας ἅπαξ πάντα ὅτι κύριος λαὸν ἐκ γῆς Αἰγύπτου σώσας τὸ δεύτερον τοὺς μὴ πιστεύσαντας ἀπώλεσεν, KJV with Strong's I will therefore put you in remembrance though ye once knew this how that the Lord having saved the people out of the land of Egypt afterward destroyed them that believed not

He presents the horrible punishment of those who have abused the grace of 'Elohim to follow their own lusts.

That the Lord. . . destroyed them that believed not. Having saved the people out of Egypt, the people were destroyed for their sins in the wilderness. See Nu 14:29.

[Constitutionalist]

Quote

New American Standard Bible (©1995) Now I desire to remind you, though you know all things once for all, that the Lord, after saving a people out of the land of Egypt, subsequently destroyed those who did not believe. King James Bible I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not. American King James Version I will therefore put you in remembrance, though you once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not. American Standard Version Now I desire to put you in remembrance, though ye know all things once for all, that the Lord, having saved a people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not. Douay-Rheims Bible ***CATHOLIC BIBLE*** I will therefore admonish you, though ye once knew all things, that Jesus, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, did afterwards destroy them that believed not: Darby Bible Translation But I would put you in remembrance, you who once knew all things, that the Lord, having saved a people out of the land of Egypt, in the second place destroyed those who had not believed. English Revised Version Now I desire to put you in remembrance, though ye know all things once for all, how that the Lord, having saved a people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not. Webster's Bible Translation I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not. World English Bible Now I desire to remind you, though you already know this, that the Lord, having saved a people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who didn't believe. Young's Literal Translation and to remind you I intend, you knowing once this, that the Lord, a people out of the land of Egypt having saved, again those who did not believe did destroy; ΙΟΥΔΑ 1:5 Greek NT: Tischendorf 8th Ed. with Diacritics ὑπομιμνήσκω δέ ὑμεῖς βούλομαι εἴδω ἅπαξ πᾶς ὅτι κύριος λαός ἐκ γῆ Αἴγυπτος σώζω ὁ δεύτερος ὁ μή πιστεύω ἀπόλλυμι ΙΟΥΔΑ 1:5 Greek NT: Greek Orthodox Church Ὑπομνῆσαι δὲ ὑμᾶς βούλομαι, εἰδότας ὑμᾶς ἅπαξ τοῦτο, ὅτι ὁ Κύριος λαὸν ἐκ τῆς Αἰγύπτου σώσας, τὸ δεύτερον τοὺς μὴ πιστεύσαντας ἀπώλεσεν, ΙΟΥΔΑ 1:5 Greek NT: Stephanus Textus Receptus (1550, with accents) Ὑπομνῆσαι δὲ ὑμᾶς βούλομαι εἰδότας ὑμᾶς ἅπαξ τοῦτο, ὅτι ὁ κύριος λαὸν ἐκ γῆς Αἰγύπτου σώσας τὸ δεύτερον τοὺς μὴ πιστεύσαντας ἀπώλεσεν ΙΟΥΔΑ 1:5 Greek NT: Westcott/Hort with Diacritics Ὑπομνῆσαι δὲ ὑμᾶς βούλομαι, εἰδότας ἅπαξ πάντα ὅτι κύριος λαὸν ἐκ γῆς Αἰγύπτου σώσας τὸ δεύτερον τοὺς μὴ πιστεύσαντας ἀπώλεσεν, ΙΟΥΔΑ 1:5 Greek NT: Tischendorf 8th Ed. υπομνησαι δε υμας βουλομαι ειδοτας απαξ παντα οτι κυριος λαον εκ γης αιγυπτου σωσας το δευτερον τους μη πιστευσαντες απωλεσεν ΙΟΥΔΑ 1:5 Greek NT: Byzantine/Majority Text (2000) υπομνησαι δε υμας βουλομαι ειδοτας υμας απαξ τουτο οτι ο κυριος λαον εκ γης αιγυπτου σωσας το δευτερον τους μη πιστευσαντας απωλεσεν ΙΟΥΔΑ 1:5 Greek NT: Textus Receptus (1550) υπομνησαι δε υμας βουλομαι ειδοτας υμας απαξ τουτο οτι ο κυριος λαον εκ γης αιγυπτου σωσας το δευτερον τους μη πιστευσαντας απωλεσεν ΙΟΥΔΑ 1:5 Greek NT: Textus Receptus (1894) υπομνησαι δε υμας βουλομαι ειδοτας υμας απαξ τουτο οτι ο κυ ριος λαον εκ γης αιγυπτου σωσας το δευτερον τους μη πιστευσαντας απωλεσεν ΙΟΥΔΑ 1:5 Greek NT: Westcott/Hort υπομνησαι δε υμας βουλομαι ειδοτας απαξ παντα οτι κυριος λαον εκ γης αιγυπτου σωσας το δευτερον τους μη πιστευσαντας απωλεσεν Jude 1:5 Hebrew Bible ויש את נפשי להזכיר אתכם את אשר כבר ידעתם כי הושיע יהוה את העם ממצרים וישמד אחרי כן את אשר לא האמינו׃ Apocalypsis 22:21 Latin: Biblia Sacra Vulgata *** CATHOLIC*** commonere autem vos volo scientes semel omnia quoniam Iesus populum de terra Aegypti salvans secundo eos qui non crediderunt perdidit

[Constitutionalist]

Quote (thethinker @ Dec. 10 2009,18:09)

Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 11 2009,12:24) hi WJ it seems you beleive in the trinity,and you pick up a couple verse twisted them and then ,twist the all scriptures to fit you pagan believes ,if you believe in christ you would not believe in the trinity ,but godly truth is not part of you ,your vision of truth is because it is part of you like everyone els story. t, Explain Jude verses 4-5: 4″For certain people have crept in unnoticed who long ago were designated for this condemnation, ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into sensuality and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ. 5Now I want to remind you, although you once fully knew it, that Jesus, who saved a people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe.” It says that JESUS saved them from Egypt. Will you deny this too? thinker

I will deny it.

[terraricca]

hi TT
i have check my seven translation in two different languages and none writghs 'JESUS”,you must have a version made up for you ??
and just a reminder the first part of Jude 4,it is so simple to understand ,i do not understand why you dont.
you know there is the saying “show me what you read and i tell you who you are” in my live i have five children and some did good some not so good but they all knew that it is there responsability to pick whats right,but i knew the way some went it will be no good end.and i not God.

[kerwin]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 10 2009,21:43)

Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 10 2009,02:05) [Anyone who walks according to the ways of the Spirit is the personification of God's Word.  If you do not walk according to the ways of the Spirit then you will not inherit the kingdom of heaven. Kerwin You mean the personification of Jesus who is the “Word” right? Are we not supposed to bear “His, Jesus Image”? Now we are getting somewhere! WJ

I meant that those who walk according to the ways of the Spirit are the personification of the Word of God because in all ways they act out the Word of God.

Still, I believe I know what you mean and it is true that it is only through obeying all that Jesus teaches us that we can walk according to the ways of Spirit.

We bear Jesus' image in walking according to the Spirit, for in that way we overcome the world as he has overcome the world.

[Proclaimer]

Quote (thethinker @ Dec. 11 2009,09:44)

You can always tell who is the loser in an argument. The loser gets angry. Martian seems to be getting close.

All I hear in that statement is pride.

Truth should be the winner at the end of the day.

Ego's should stay out of it. Bias should be put away.
Humility should be embraced.

[kerwin]

Quote (t8 @ Dec. 11 2009,12:06)

Quote (thethinker @ Dec. 11 2009,09:44) You can always tell who is the loser in an argument. The loser gets angry. Martian seems to be getting close. All I hear in that statement is pride. Truth should be the winner at the end of the day. Ego's should stay out of it. Bias should be put away. Humility should be embraced.

You may be right in what you hear but I would state that the thinker should also consider that Jesus was known to get angry with those with unrepentant hearts.  Does that mean Jesus was a looser?

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 11 2009,02:11)

Quote (t8 @ Dec. 11 2009,12:06) Quote (thethinker @ Dec. 11 2009,09:44) You can always tell who is the loser in an argument. The loser gets angry. Martian seems to be getting close. All I hear in that statement is pride. Truth should be the winner at the end of the day. Ego's should stay out of it. Bias should be put away. Humility should be embraced. You may be right in what you hear but I would state that the thinker should also consider that Jesus was known to get angry with those with unrepentant hearts.  Does that mean Jesus was a looser?

Kerwin

Yes, but that is a two edged sword, for they also got mad and picked up stones to stone Jesus because they did not accept his clear speach, and many left him because he was clearly telling them he came down from heaven and would return to where he was before.

WJ

[kerwin]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 11 2009,13:53)

Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 11 2009,02:11) Quote (t8 @ Dec. 11 2009,12:06) Quote (thethinker @ Dec. 11 2009,09:44) You can always tell who is the loser in an argument. The loser gets angry. Martian seems to be getting close. All I hear in that statement is pride. Truth should be the winner at the end of the day. Ego's should stay out of it. Bias should be put away. Humility should be embraced. You may be right in what you hear but I would state that the thinker should also consider that Jesus was known to get angry with those with unrepentant hearts.  Does that mean Jesus was a looser? Kerwin Yes, but that is a two edged sword, for they also got mad and picked up stones to stone Jesus because they did not accept his clear speach, and many left him because he was clearly telling them he came down from heaven and would return to where he was before. WJ

I agree that motivation is the important factor.   One should always check their heart and even when they think anger is justified they should still be slow to anger.

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 11 2009,03:31)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 11 2009,13:53) Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 11 2009,02:11) Quote (t8 @ Dec. 11 2009,12:06) Quote (thethinker @ Dec. 11 2009,09:44) You can always tell who is the loser in an argument. The loser gets angry. Martian seems to be getting close. All I hear in that statement is pride. Truth should be the winner at the end of the day. Ego's should stay out of it. Bias should be put away. Humility should be embraced. You may be right in what you hear but I would state that the thinker should also consider that Jesus was known to get angry with those with unrepentant hearts.  Does that mean Jesus was a looser? Kerwin Yes, but that is a two edged sword, for they also got mad and picked up stones to stone Jesus because they did not accept his clear speach, and many left him because he was clearly telling them he came down from heaven and would return to where he was before. WJ I agree that motivation is the important factor.   One should always check their heart and even when they think anger is justified they should still be slow to anger.

Agreed!

WJ

[KangarooJack]

Quote (t8 @ Dec. 11 2009,17:06)

Quote (thethinker @ Dec. 11 2009,09:44) You can always tell who is the loser in an argument. The loser gets angry. Martian seems to be getting close. All I hear in that statement is pride. Truth should be the winner at the end of the day. Ego's should stay out of it. Bias should be put away. Humility should be embraced.

Who do you think you're kidding? I was just stating an observation.

thinker

[KangarooJack]

Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 11 2009,14:15)

hi TT i have check my seven translation in two different languages and none writghs 'JESUS”,you must have a version made up for you ?? and just a reminder the first part of Jude 4,it is so simple to understand ,i do not understand why you dont. you know there is the saying “show me what you read and i tell you who you are” in my live i have five children and some did good some not so good but they all knew that it is there responsability to pick whats right,but i knew the way some went it will be no good end.and i not God.

Go to Biblegateway.com and read the English Standard Version. Anyway, it doesn't matter for verse 5 says that “the Lord” saved them from Egypt. Verse 4 says that Jesus Christ is the “ONLY Master and Lord.” Ergo….

thinker

[KangarooJack]

Quote (Constitutionalist @ Dec. 11 2009,13:30)

Quote (thethinker @ Dec. 10 2009,18:09) Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 11 2009,12:24) hi WJ it seems you beleive in the trinity,and you pick up a couple verse twisted them and then ,twist the all scriptures to fit you pagan believes ,if you believe in christ you would not believe in the trinity ,but godly truth is not part of you ,your vision of truth is because it is part of you like everyone els story. t, Explain Jude verses 4-5: 4″For certain people have crept in unnoticed who long ago were designated for this condemnation, ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into sensuality and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ. 5Now I want to remind you, although you once fully knew it, that Jesus, who saved a people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe.” It says that JESUS saved them from Egypt. Will you deny this too? thinker Don't know where you got “Jesus” from the original Greek has “Lord – Kuros”. In fact the last time I remember seeing someone switching Lord for “Jesus” was the Catholic Church, they had it in there Catholic Bible. Quote Jude 1:4 Greek Study Bible (Apostolic / Interlinear) παρεισεδύησαν γάρ τινες ἄνθρωποι, οἱ πάλαι προγεγραμμένοι εἰς τοῦτο τὸ κρίμα, ἀσεβεῖς τὴν τοῦ θεοῦ ἡμῶν χάριτα μετατιθέντες εἰς ἀσέλγειαν καὶ τὸν μόνον δεσπότην καὶ κύριον ἡμῶν Ἰησοῦν Χριστὸν ἀρνούμενοι. KJV with Strong's For there are certain men crept in unawares who were before of old ordained to this condemnation ungodly men turning the grace of our G-d into lasciviousness and denying the only Lord G-d and our Lord Jesus Christ Quote Jude 1:5 Greek Study Bible (Apostolic / Interlinear) Ὑπομνῆσαι δὲ ὑμᾶς βούλομαι, εἰδότας ἅπαξ πάντα ὅτι κύριος λαὸν ἐκ γῆς Αἰγύπτου σώσας τὸ δεύτερον τοὺς μὴ πιστεύσαντας ἀπώλεσεν, KJV with Strong's I will therefore put you in remembrance though ye once knew this how that the Lord having saved the people out of the land of Egypt afterward destroyed them that believed not He presents the horrible punishment of those who have abused the grace of 'Elohim to follow their own lusts. That the Lord. . . destroyed them that believed not. Having saved the people out of Egypt, the people were destroyed for their sins in the wilderness. See Nu 14:29.

Go to Biblegateway.com and read the English Standard version. Verse 5 says that it was “the Lord” who saved the people out of Egypt. Verse 4 says that Jesus Christ is the “ONLY Master and Lord.”

You can't dance around it.

thinker

[KangarooJack]

Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 11 2009,18:11)

Quote (t8 @ Dec. 11 2009,12:06) Quote (thethinker @ Dec. 11 2009,09:44) You can always tell who is the loser in an argument. The loser gets angry. Martian seems to be getting close. All I hear in that statement is pride. Truth should be the winner at the end of the day. Ego's should stay out of it. Bias should be put away. Humility should be embraced. You may be right in what you hear but I would state that the thinker should also consider that Jesus was known to get angry with those with unrepentant hearts.  Does that mean Jesus was a looser?

Show where Jesus got angry with people for their impentinence or when He was in a debate. The only example of His being angry I am aware of was when they were polluting the temple.

Anyway, I only stated an observation. Those who lose an argument tend to get angry and stomp off. There is nothing prideful or inaccurate in what I said.

thinker

[Author]

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