Preexistence

[NickHassan]

Hi WJ,
So now you know 1Jn5.7 was added how can you claim it gives any form of validity to your trinity idea?
It that is the sort of foundation it stands on surely you know it will fall?

[Not3in1]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 19 2008,11:44)

But when you know the truth and it makes you free, you do not need to be open to anything else. IMO.

OK, bro. Thanks for the chat today, I've enjoyed it very much.

Take care and have a good evening!
Love,
Mandy

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 19 2008,11:52)

Hi WJ, So now you know 1Jn5.7 was added how can you claim it gives any form of validity to your trinity idea? It that is the sort of foundation it stands on surely you know it will fall?

NH

Buzzards only look for that which is dead so that it can pounce on it and devour it.

Why do you always look for the negative and condemn rather than seeing that most of my post about the written scriptures shoud be congratulated?

Are you here to discourage or to encourage, for it seems to me you do more of the former.

WJ

[NickHassan]

Hi WJ,
We would love to see you set your feet on firmer ground.
Mingling truth with the teachings of the dead is not good for your health.

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Not3in1 @ Aug. 19 2008,11:55)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 19 2008,11:44) But when you know the truth and it makes you free, you do not need to be open to anything else. IMO. OK, bro.  Thanks for the chat today, I've enjoyed it very much. Take care and have a good evening! Love, Mandy

Mandy

Thanks!

You too.

Love and blessings WJ

[Not3in1]

Gotta run, brother's. I've sure enjoyed today chatting with you. I've spent so many hours here today – I haven't been feeling well and so this helped pass the time.

Dan will be home soon and dinner should be on the table……what can I microwave?

Mandy

[NickHassan]

Hi not3,
Do spend some time on what I asked please.

THE LORD IS THE SPIRIT

What does it mean?

[Adam Pastor]

Quote (Not3in1 @ Aug. 18 2008,21:19)

Keith believes that Jesus is God, I am trying to narrow the gap between us by conceeding that I also believe Jesus is God by confirming that he is indeed the Son of God. Jesus is God's son therefore he is God of very God.  Nathan is Dan's son therefore he is human of very human. God begets God (it's not just for trinitarians anymore)   Just as humans beget humans and animals beget animals…. Love, Mandy

Mandy, are you not aware that it was statements such as
“Jesus is God's son therefore he is God of very God. … God begets God”;
which became the very bedrock of trinitarianism in the 4th cent., in the first place?
These were the very seeds of trinitarian controversy!!

The Holy Scriptures simply do not make such statements.
So should we?

In your desire for “unification”, I fear it can cause compromise & confusion!
IMHO, I suggest you stick with scriptural language.

ONE-GOD believing Christians from the time of the early church simply would not speak of
“Jesus is God's son therefore he is God of very God. … God begets God”;
these statements have their roots in Greek philosophy & Platonism.

Please Mandy, Beware … Col 2.8

[Adam Pastor]

Quote (Not3in1 @ Aug. 18 2008,22:27)

Nathan is 100% human because both of his parents are human. Jesus cannot be 100% God because both of his parents are not God. This logic is pretty clear, is it not? Thanks, Mandy

Well there you go then Mandy.
Seeing that “Jesus cannot be 100% God because both of his parents are not God;”

Jesus therefore cannot be “God of God”.

Surely, that is pretty clear!
Do you not agree?

[Not3in1]

Hi Adam P,

Quote

Mandy, are you not aware that it was statements such as “Jesus is God's son therefore he is God of very God. … God begets God”; which became the very bedrock of trinitarianism in the 4th cent., in the first place?

Oh sure, I'm aware. But Paul admonishes us to grow in our depths of understanding. I don't base my beliefs on some old, dead guys who thought they had it right centuries ago. Since then there has been a lot of debate about what they “decided”. I think the vast majority of those who seek truth realize there are errors in their conclusions.

Quote

The Holy Scriptures simply do not make such statements. So should we?

You mean the “God begets God” part? Right, we cannot find that in scripture but we are told that God begat a son – what else would the Son of God be if not God from God?

Jesus is “of” God. Did the Father not contribute anything to his boy?

Quote

In your desire for “unification”, I fear it can cause compromise & confusion! IMHO, I suggest you stick with scriptural language.

Son of God is scriptural language. What is a son? The SON OF GOD would be God of God. Jesus is of God. Would God beget a human? Would a dog beget an insect? I believe folks take scriptural language and attach different meanings to certain words to fit their peculiar theology.

Quote

ONE-GOD believing Christians from the time of the early church simply would not speak of “Jesus is God's son therefore he is God of very God. … God begets God”;

Perhaps not, you are right. But then again our understanding is different from theirs. They couldn't figure out why Jesus was able to calm the storms either. The boys asked each other, “What manner of man is this?” Clearly they understood Jesus was not merely a man. To say he was merely a man, imo, is to say too little of him. In my opinion, it also denies his Father's role in bringing him into the world!

Quote

Well there you go then Mandy. Seeing that “Jesus cannot be 100% God because both of his parents are not God;” Jesus therefore cannot be “God of God”. Surely, that is pretty clear! Do you not agree?

No, I do not agree. Jesus cannot be God of God because he had a human for a mother? But what about GOD THE FATHER'S contribution? Does it count for nothing?

I still cannot figure out why no one wants to honor God by recognizing that he fathered one, unique Son (through conception). It offends so many…..

Love,
Mandy

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 19 2008,10:59)

Hi WJ, 1Cor15 45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made [1519]a quickening spirit. Number 1519 Transliteration: eis {ice} Word Origin: a primary preposition TDNT: 2:420,211 Part of Speech: prep Usage in the KJV: into 573, to 281, unto 207, for 140, in 138, on 58, toward 29, against 26, misc 321 Total: 1773 Definition: into, unto, to, towards, for, among Wigram's frequency count is 1770 not 1773. “For” (as used in Acts 2:38 “for the forgiveness…”) could have two meanings. If you saw a poster saying “Jesse James wanted for robbery”, “for” could mean Jesse is wanted so he can commit a robbery, or is wanted because he has committed a robbery. The later sense is the correct one. So too in this passage, the word “for” signifies an action in the past. Otherwise, it would violate the entire tenor of the NT teaching on salvation by grace and not by works.

NH

Nothing in your definition says “Yeshua was made” a quickening Spirit. This is just your own inference to support your doctrine. Sorry your doctrine that Yeshua was born again in the ressurection is not found in scriptures.

The words “was made” are not in the Greek manuscripts.

WJ

[NickHassan]

Hi WJ,
You may be right,
But this is Young's literal translation

“45so also it hath been written, `The first man Adam became a living creature,' the last Adam [is] for a life-giving spirit,

46but that which is spiritual [is] not first, but that which [was] natural, afterwards that which [is] spiritual.

47The first man [is] out of the earth, earthy; the second man [is] the Lord out of heaven;

So the Lord Jesus from heaven is become for us the source of the lifegiving Spirit?

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 20 2008,08:10)

Hi WJ, You may be right, But this is Young's literal translation “45so also it hath been written, `The first man Adam became a living creature,' the last Adam [is] for a life-giving spirit, 46but that which is spiritual [is] not first, but that which [was] natural, afterwards that which [is] spiritual. 47The first man [is] out of the earth, earthy; the second man [is] the Lord out of heaven; So the Lord Jesus from heaven is become for us the source of the lifegiving Spirit?

NH

Saying that he is a life-giving Spirit is quite different than saying he “was made” a life giving spirit.

WJ

[NickHassan]

Hi WJ,
We can know it is not his own spirit that he shared with us as that spirit left him at calvary.
We can also know that he was anointed with the Spirit of God at the Jordan.
We can also know that he offered the Spirit to all.

Jn7
37In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.

38He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

39(But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

So he was a vessel and as God poured into him so he pours among us.

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 20 2008,08:38)

Hi WJ, We can know it is not his own spirit that he shared with us as that spirit left him at calvary. We can also know that he was anointed with the Spirit of God at the Jordan. We can also know that he offered the Spirit to all. Jn7 37In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. 38He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. 39(But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.) So he was a vessel and as God poured into him so he pours among us.

NH

The Spirit that Yeshua gave up at his death was the breath of life in his flesh. He had the power to lay it down and take it again.

Yeshuas Spirit did not leave himself. Yeshua is the life giving Spirit and he left his body to go to hades for three days and 3 nights.

WJ

[NickHassan]

Hi WJ,
Jesus died.
He really really died.
The rest is the work of God's abiding Spirit.

[NickHassan]

ps
Romans 5:6
For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.

Romans 5:8
But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

Romans 6:10
For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.

Romans 8:34
Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

Romans 14:9
For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.

Romans 14:15
But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died.

1 Corinthians 8:11
And through thy knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died?

1 Corinthians 15:3
For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

2 Corinthians 5:14
For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:

2 Corinthians 5:15
And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.

1 Thessalonians 4:14
For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

No doubt about it HE DIED and we do not alter history or scripture to make him not do so.

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 20 2008,08:55)

Hi WJ, Jesus died. He really really died. The rest is the work of God's abiding Spirit.

NH

Did he who was the resurrection and the life the “eternal Spirit” die or did his flesh give up the ghost?

So his soul/spirit didn't go to hades and he didn't preach to those in holding?

Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this? John 11:25, 26

Are you one who believes in soul sleep? If so who are the souls spoken of in Revelation and the Spirits in prison spoken of in Peter?

WJ

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 20 2008,09:04)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 20 2008,08:55) Hi WJ, Jesus died. He really really died. The rest is the work of God's abiding Spirit. NH Did he who was the resurrection and the life the “eternal Spirit” die or did his flesh give up the ghost? So his soul/spirit didn't go to hades and he didn't preach to those in holding? Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this? John 11:25, 26 Are you one who believes in soul sleep? If so who are the souls spoken of in Revelation and the Spirits in prison spoken of in Peter? WJ

NH

What about Lazurus and the rich man?

WJ

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 20 2008,09:04)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 20 2008,08:55) Hi WJ, Jesus died. He really really died. The rest is the work of God's abiding Spirit. NH Did he who was the resurrection and the life the “eternal Spirit” die or did his flesh give up the ghost? So his soul/spirit didn't go to hades and he didn't preach to those in holding? Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this? John 11:25, 26 Are you one who believes in soul sleep? If so who are the souls spoken of in Revelation and the Spirits in prison spoken of in Peter? WJ

NH

What about Paul saying…

We are confident, , and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. 2 Cor 5:8

WJ

[Author]

Posts