Preexistence

[NickHassan]

Hi not3,
What is this GODHEAD you speak of?

Scripture shows by three different greek words it is DIVINE NATURE

It is misleading to use it the way theologians do.

[Lightenup]

Mandy,
You have turned yourself into my personal public persecutor while speaking for others. The Lord knows my heart and doesn't convict me as you OFTEN TRY TO DO. Again, you single me out, hmmm HAVEN'T YOU BEEN READING OTHERS POSTS. It is the Lord God whom I will serve and not your insecurities Mandy. BTW you are no stranger to being harsh towards some especially those with confidence in the pre-existence of the Son of God. So, if I shake the dust from my feet with you it is because I am wasting my time discussing with you. You can keep riding your teeter totter.

There I said it!

[Lightenup]

Quote (before Time @ Aug. 15 2008,19:00)

Hi All There is one scripture which should satisfy this madness. Just kidding! Its John 17:3 “This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. NASU Here Jesus is praying to His Father, not himself, saying the expression “The only true God” for the Father. I challenge anyone to go to their bibles and find one instance where that expression is given to our Lord Jesus Christ or anyone else. Roy I found the card to get to heaven, and you can't have it. It's locked in a safe with two pit bulls guarding it in a location unknown to you or anyone else. Yicks I forgot where it is.  I’m going to spend my time looking for that map. Gota go! “Kathi do I get a prize for entering the 4150th post” Before Time

Hi BT,
Yes, you get the prize. In fact, you get two. One for writing the 4150th post and one for knowing truth of which I am very grateful!

Good challenge which ,I agree, remains unmet and will remain unmet.

You and Roy are a breath of fresh air on here. Thank you for coming!

God bless,
Kathi

[Lightenup]

Here we have a figurative “firstborn” and even then God speaks as if this figurative firstborn came figuratively from HIS WOMB and BORN BY HIM. I don't think that it is so much of a stretch to think that God's only begotten son would be His LITERAL firstborn and LITERALLY come from HIS WOMB and LITERALLY BORN BY HIM.

22 “Then you shall say to Pharaoh, `Thus says the LORD, “Israel is My son, My firstborn.

3 “Listen to Me, O house of Jacob,
And all the remnant of the house of Israel,
You who have been borne by Me from birth
And have been carried from the womb;
4 Even to your old age I will be the same,
And even to your graying years I will bear you!
I have done it, and I will carry you;
And I will bear you and I will deliver you.

[Lightenup]

WJ,
You claim to be a trinitarian yet you do not believe in even the basics of the doctrine. You do not believe in an eternal “son” and in the trinity doctrine it states that the Father and Son are co-eternal. It doesn't say the Father and the “word” are co-eternal.

You claim a triune God but the one you claim is not the one of the trinity doctrine.

BTW, if your God is triune and is revealed in nature, well lets just say that there are people that think they have multiple personalities also. We refer to them as having a DISORDER.

[Not3in1]

Good morning, Kathi.

Quote

Again, you single me out, hmmm HAVEN'T YOU BEEN READING OTHERS POSTS.

Actually this is not true, I try to encourage everyone to take the high road and respect other's. But I don't expect for you to know this yet because you haven't been here that long. If you take time to read back posts, you will see that I am not just aiming my “encouragement” towards you. It's never a good feeling to be reminded that you are treating other's poorly in the name of the Lord. We all do it, myself included. However scripture is there for teaching and reminding other's to be kind. So while you teach, I remind. We are all needed in the body of Christ.

Quote

It is the Lord God whom I will serve and not your insecurities Mandy.

I have to no idea why you continue to be mean-spirited? But we are known by our fruits.

Quote

So, if I shake the dust from my feet with you it is because I am wasting my time discussing with you.

Again, you will be known for the fruit your tree produces. Where is kindness, patience and long suffering? May I again encourage you to treat your brother's and sister's in the Lord (yes, ESPECIALLY the family of God) nicely and with love and care…..

Quote

You can keep riding your teeter totter. There I said it!

You most certainly have! I hope you feel better now. Poking fun at other's is something I would expect from a non-believer but not from someone who knows the love of our God, and who believes they have been given a revelation to share.

Kathi, if I see you treating other's poorly I will not remind you again to be kind. It appears your heart is hard towards this instruction. Instead I will try to encourage those you have left in your wake of intolerance. Some are not as strong as I am and cannot handle being made fun of (riding a teeter-totter).

Press on towards the goal, sister!
Mandy

[Not3in1]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 16 2008,21:28)

Hi not3, What is this GODHEAD you speak of? Scripture shows by three different greek words it is DIVINE NATURE It is misleading to use it the way theologians do.

I was directing the use of that term as an explaination of what Keith believes about Jesus. I do not currently hold to that belief, as I said.

The word “Godhead” is used in the NIV, I'm not sure about other translations?

Thanks,
Mandy

[NickHassan]

Hi not3,
Not the NIV but the KJV.
It was hijacked by those of the trinity persuasion to imply a community of gods.

[Not3in1]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 17 2008,06:33)

Hi not3, Not the NIV but the  KJV. It was hijacked by those of the trinity persuasion to imply a community of gods.

Yes, the KJV. Forgive me, at any given time I have several different versions of the bible open on my kitchen table. Sometimes I forget which one is which.

I knew I saw it somewhere! 😉
Mandy

[Lightenup]

Mandy,
Tolerance for false teaching…no way! You are responsible to show what you think is false and I am responsible to show what I think is false. BTW, Brothers and sisters in Christ have the same brother Jesus not a different brother Jesus as we have. Unfortunately.

We are to test each others teaching and if we find it false then we are to tolerate it??? NOT! Nor do we need to patiently let it continue without confrontation. Heaven forbid!

I believe that this group here is not one family of God…yet. Hopefully someday. There are different “God's” taught here and different only begotten sons believed in and therefore different families or idea of families. We all have to find the one we believe in and you and I have found different ones. Simple as that. That is not the way I would wish it but it is that way nevertheless.

Intolerance for what we believe is false teaching is scriptural.

[Not3in1]

Sigh….

Well, Kathi, you have made up your mind and who am I to try and change it? God bless you and your dear family. Perhaps someday we will all come to the correct knowledge of our God and his beloved Son. As it stands now, there is no way to determine who is right and who is wrong – it's all based on personal opinion and personal interpretation. But one thing that is easy to determine is whether or not we love our brother's as ourselves; we can all do that.

Take care,
Mandy

[Not3in1]

Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 17 2008,15:03)

BTW, Brothers and sisters in Christ have the same brother Jesus not a different brother Jesus as we have. Unfortunately.

You do have my curiosity up about one thing, Kathi…..

Does anyone here have the same brother Jesus as YOU? Is there anyone here who believes that Jesus is a “begotten God”? If not, are you the only one who can claim Jesus as your brother and the rest of us are seemingly out of luck?

[Proclaimer]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 14 2008,23:47)

Hi Roy In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. John 1:1 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. John 20:28 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness [is] the sceptre of thy kingdom. Heb 1:8 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; Titus 2:13 God being with God kind of makes Henotheism, and Arianism and Unitarainism fall apart doesn't it, unless you are a Polytheist? WJ

Sorry WJ, I think your words are arrogant.

You are the one who has more than one person as God, whereas many here acknowledge the Father as the only true God an Jesus Christ as the one he sent.

[Not3in1]

Quote (t8 @ Aug. 17 2008,23:26)

God being with God

The above quote is from WJ.

Well, you know my theory that Jesus was the potential son with God in the beginning. So in this case, “god with God” would be appropriate. Another way to say it would be, “son with Father”. With does not necessarily mean “with” as in physically in the company of. There are other defintions for “with”.

But I'm still testing my theory.
Mandy

[NickHassan]

Hi not3,
WJ believes in only one God so any relevance of GOD being with GOD he will acknowledge to be untrue.

[gollamudi]

Quote (Not3in1 @ Aug. 18 2008,05:44)

Quote (t8 @ Aug. 17 2008,23:26) God being with God The above quote is from WJ.   Well, you know my theory that Jesus was the potential son with God in the beginning.  So in this case, “god with God” would be appropriate.  Another way to say it would be, “son with Father”.  With does not necessarily mean “with” as in physically in the company of.  There are other defintions for “with”. But I'm still testing my theory.   Mandy

Hi Sis Mandy,
I appreciate your continued efforts in negating the arguements that cause differences. One thing I can tell you is that 'the word was with God' in the beginning was nothing but His own expression or attribute but not another person as many here are interpreting Jn 1:1. “and the word was God” is not any lesser than God Himself and the same 'word of life' became living word in person Jesus (1Jn1). That's why Jesus is the true representation of that One and Only God the Father. If you see Jesus physically you see the full image of true God not any lesser diety as some claim here but that doesn't mean Jesus himself is Father. He is only the Theophany of the invisible God the Father.

Hope this will clear your doubts
Lovw to you
Adam

[NickHassan]

Hi GM,
Did he have will or personality of his own??

[gollamudi]

Hi brother Nick,
If you are meaning Jesus in that question, yes certainly he has his own will. You have to see what Jesus was talking in John's book about the words he was speaking were not of his own but belong to his Father who is abiding in him.

Please recollect Moses words in Deut 18:

15 “A prophet like me will the LORD, your God, raise up for you from among your own kinsmen; to him you shall listen.
16 This is exactly what you requested of the LORD, your God, at Horeb on the day of the assembly, when you said, 'Let us not again hear the voice of the LORD, our God, nor see this great fire any more, lest we die.'
17 And the LORD said to me, 'This was well said.
18 I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their kinsmen, and will put my words into his mouth; he shall tell them all that I command him.
19 If any man will not listen to my words which he speaks in my name, I myself will make him answer for it.
20 But if a prophet presumes to speak in my name an oracle that I have not commanded him to speak, or speaks in the name of other gods, he shall die.

So people of Israel wanted to listen God's words in a human prophet or in a Theophany therefore God sent Jesus as that prophet or His Theophany in whom He can fully express Himself to speak to His people. God will fulfill all His wonderful promises that He has given to His people in O.T through His Son Jesus as if personally He is present with them in Jesus. The millennial kingdom itself is a part of that fulfillment as Jesus will be sitting as king of kings and Lord of Lords on David's throne in Jerusalem. Please recollect all promises that YHWH gave to Israelites in Zechariah; as if He Himself will come and fight with the nations in Armegiddon at Jesus' second coming.

Thanks and blessings
Adam

[NickHassan]

Hi GM,
Certainly Jesus was a vessel for God but that vessel still was a person in his own right, one who thirsted and hungered and overcame sin.

[gollamudi]

Yes brother, 100% you are correct.

[Author]

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