Preexistence

[Not3in1]

Quote (theodorej @ Aug. 06 2008,00:31)

Quote (Not3in1 @ Aug. 05 2008,18:21) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 05 2008,17:40) Hi not3, His birth? He was born of woman. Jb25 4How then can man be justified with God? or how can he be clean that is born of a woman? 5Behold even to the moon, and it shineth not; yea, the stars are not pure in his sight. 6How much less man, that is a worm? and the son of man, which is a worm? Sure, birth is birth for most of us – no big deal. But what was growing inside of Mary was the only child of God Almighty.  No other child grew from conception that was of God.  No other.   When Jesus was born, it WAS a big deal. Greetings Mandi…..Jesus'birth was a big deal,in as much as it marked the beginning of his ministry and the fullfillment of prophesy….From a carnal point of view the scriptures never bothered to take note of the exact day he was born(eg.His Birthday)because in Gods eyes birthdays are not that important….

Yes, agreed.

That AND our heavenly Father had just had a bouncy, baby boy made in his image.

Instead of passing out cigars he had a host of angels come and sing! I bet that was some show! I doubt that would have happened just to mark a ministry beginning, but maybe?

[Not3in1]

Quote (pulivarthy @ Aug. 05 2008,23:41)

john:1:1-2;1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was with God in the beginning. it connotes that word was held by the God before creation started.word has an invisible personality like God and in him.word can do all what God wants to be done.word only created angels also.word is similar to a skillful worker of God.like God's spirit, God's word has an invisible personality.it only understands what God intends to do through it perfectly.That word was given flesh form as a skillful physician,perfect worker,perfect master/steward of god”s houser.

Hello and welcome! 😉

You may want to also visit the John 1:1 thread. I'll bring it up for you!

Glad you are here,
Mandy

[Not3in1]

Hi Kathi,

Thank you so much for this post and all the information.  I have a couple questions, and forgive me because my thoughts are stirred and I'm trying to make sense out of this, thus my questions may not be very clear.  Give me a second chance to clarify if need be.

In 1 Peter 1:2 it says, “…..of God the Father….”.  Clearly denoting that “God” refers to the Father.

In 2 Peter 1:1 it says, “…..of our God and Savior Jesus Christ….”.  Hmm?  

My question is how does the Greek play out here for these two comparisons?  Is “God” translated in both instances the same or different?  Because what I'm wondering is if there is a “God Almighty” who is the Father (and has a Greek word attached to that), AND perhaps another Greek word attached to “God the Son” who is Jesus.  The reason I ask is because we are told that there is no other God but One, and that One God is the FATHER. So, I'm wondering if there is no God beside the Father….how can Jesus (even as God the Son) be referred to as a “God” in sense of the word? I sure hope that made sense?

I can clearly see that what I have been putting off (learning Greek and how to manuever around Strongs) cannot be put off much longer.

I want the truth more than I want to be right.  Thanks for taking the time to bring this, I really appreciate it.
Love,
Mandy

[NickHassan]

Quote (Not3in1 @ Aug. 06 2008,04:33)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 05 2008,19:48) Acts 10:38 “You know of Jesus of Nazareth, how God anointed Him with the Holy Spirit and with power, and how He went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with Him. Hebrews 1:9 ” YOU HAVE LOVED RIGHTEOUSNESS AND HATED LAWLESSNESS; THEREFORE GOD, YOUR GOD, HAS ANOINTED YOUWITH THE OIL OF GLADNESS ABOVE YOUR COMPANIONS.” We know when this happened. Is the holy Spirit the only annointing?  Or could there be an anointing that Jesus received when he was born purely because he was/is the Christ?  Does anoint always have to mean a religious ceremony as in the Jordan? a·noint   Audio Help   (ə-noint')  Pronunciation Key   tr.v.   a·noint·ed, a·noint·ing, a·noints To apply oil, ointment, or a similar substance to. To put oil on during a religious ceremony as a sign of sanctification or consecration. To choose by or as if by divine intervention.

Hi not3,
Religious ceremonies at best are a physical representation of a spiritual event.
This is the anointing of Jesus.

Lk3
21Now when all the people were baptized, it came to pass, that Jesus also being baptized, and praying, the heaven was opened,

22And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.

and the fruit

Lk4

1And Jesus being full of the Holy Ghost returned from Jordan, and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness,

[Not3in1]

Thanks, Nick.

But my question was – is the holy Spirit the ONLY “anointing” that Jesus could have received?

We all receive this anointing when we are baptized. Is that to say we are not anointed prior to baptism (which sounds like another thread discussion).

[NickHassan]

Hi not3,
In Jn 20 Jesus gave the Spirit to his followers.
He gave them Spiritual Authority.

22And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:

23Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.

But then at the end of Lk they are advised to waith till clothed in POWER.
Lk24
49And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.

Is this what you mean?

[Not3in1]

Yes, I think so (ha).

Um, what I mean is that Jesus was anointed at his baptism with holy Spirit, much like we are. We receive power to witness and live the Christian life. But, it's my theory that Jesus never needed the “anointing” to be the Christ. In other words, he wasn't anointed the Christ he was born the Christ.

The Luke passage regarding Jesus telling them to wait until they received the power accured after their anointing in baptism. So we can see that just being baptized isn't necessarily all you need to begin a ministry. Right?

A couple of ideas going on at the same time here.
1) Did Jesus need to be baptized/anointed the “Christ” or could he have received a differen “anointing” at birth that made him the Christ?
2) Is it necessary to have this baptismal anointing to begin ministry (as the Christ)?

Keep in mind that “anointing” doesn't necessarily have to be a ceremony or religious moment. The Father could have merely chosen Jesus to be the Messiah and thus he was “anointed” as such from the beginning (before he was born).

This is a little confusing, but I think we are following okay.
Thanks,
Mandy

[NickHassan]

Hi not3,
He did not need the Spirit given him before his ministry began?
He ascribed everything he did and said to that Spirit of God in him.

[Not3in1]

What I mean is that the Spirit of God was in him before he was born, perhaps as he was woven together in the womb? The actual “anointing” of holy Spirit at baptism was *another* anointing for service. Could this be?

[NickHassan]

Hi not3,
We know where the Spirit was given to him-at the Jordan.
The rest is surely speculation.

Why would he need to be given the Spirit twice?

[NickHassan]

Hi not3,

You say
“Keep in mind that “anointing” doesn't necessarily have to be a ceremony or religious moment. The Father could have merely chosen Jesus to be the Messiah and thus he was “anointed” as such from the beginning (before he was born).”

Choice is entirely another thing from anointing.

[Not3in1]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 06 2008,09:11)

Hi not3, You say “Keep in mind that “anointing” doesn't necessarily have to be a ceremony or religious moment.  The Father could have merely chosen Jesus to be the Messiah and thus he was “anointed” as such from the beginning (before he was born).” Choice is entirely another thing from anointing.

See the above definition of anointing. That was my basis for that idea.

[Not3in1]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 06 2008,08:37)

Why would he need to be given the Spirit twice?

Exactly.

In other words, could “annointing” have a differet purpose other than the giving of the Spirit?  

I am trying to establish whether or not Christ was anointed Messiah at birth or at the Jordan, that's the bottom line.

I believe that the definition affords the speculation that it could mean something *other than* a ceremony (baptism), and that it could in fact mean a choosing.

God chose Jesus before the foundations of the world to be his Messiah. Thus, he was Messiah from the beginning. He was not necessarily anointed at the Jordan to be the Messiah. What he received at the Jordan was the fullness of God's spirit and the ability to minister.

[NickHassan]

Hi not3,
There does seem to be an anointing with two aspects.
But still only one event is recorded.
Acts 10
38How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.

[Not3in1]

Hi Nick,

When Jesus was born we have the whole, “…for unto you a child is given….” business. It seems to me that at birth Jesus had a lot of responsibilities and things that were on his shoulders. 😉

Perhaps being born the Messiah is sort of like being born a Prince – it's your position. If you are a baby of a King, you are automatically given Prince status upon birth. Your responsibilities and power may come later, even in the form of a ceremony where the King would “dub” you some such or other……but the position is yours from birth. I'm thinking this could apply to Jesus as well?

[NickHassan]

Hi Not3,
I agree.
No jobs for those yet wrapped in swaddling clothes.
No jobs till empowered to do so from on high.

[Not3in1]

So Jesus wasn't necessarily anointed Christ at the Jordan – he was born the Christ.

At the Jordan he was empowered and given the power to put into effect his status as the Christ.

Have I got this right now?

[NickHassan]

Hi not3,
And Paul was born in Tarsus, should that be Saul?
Luke 2:11
for today in the city of David there has been born for you a Savior, who is Christ the Lord.

But his saving work began 30 years later.

[Not3in1]

Quote

And Paul was born in Tarsus, should that be Saul?

Not sure what you mean?

Quote

Luke 2:11 for today in the city of David there has been born for you a Savior, who is Christ the Lord.

BINGO! Thank you for this. Jesus indeed was born the Christ. No anointing was needed for that status to be his.

However, an anointing was given to release the power that went with that status. The Prince had grown-up and was ready to carry-out his responsibilities. Got it. Thanks, Nick for going through this with me.

Now when we speak of Jesus being anointed at the Jordan, and speaking of Jesus being the Christ, I have a better perspective of what this means.

Love,
Mandy

[NickHassan]

Hi not3,
not only ready but equipped and enabled.
His period of training led to this moment but he still needed the supply of the grace.

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