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Quote (Not3in1 @ June 28 2007,18:36) Quote (Is 1:18 @ June 28 2007,18:25) and therefore He was not denying he was God either
I personally think that Jesus is disappointed to see that he spent his whole ministry pointing us to his Father, and to his God – only to see that we have made HIM the object of our praise and worship; indeed we have made HIM God.HE is the Son of God.
Not3, if Yeshua is not the object of your praise then you are out of step with the NT writers….Gotta go, home group tonight….
Hi Is 1.18
Lk 18
11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.Number 2570
Transliteration:
kalos {kal-os'}
Word Origin:
of uncertain affinity
TDNT:
3:536,402
Part of Speech:
adjective
Usage in the KJV:
good 83, better 7, honest 5, meet 2, goodly 2, misc 3Total: 102
Lk 18
'And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is , God.'Number 18
Transliteration:
agathos {ag-ath-os'}
Word Origin:
a primary word
TDNT:
1:10,3
Part of Speech:
adjective
Usage in the KJV:
good 77, good thing 14, that which is good3588 8, the thing which is good3588 1, well 1, benefit 1Total: 102
Different words
Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 28 2007,20:02) Hi Is 1.18 Lk 18
11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.Number 2570
Transliteration:
kalos {kal-os'}
Word Origin:
of uncertain affinity
TDNT:
3:536,402
Part of Speech:
adjective
Usage in the KJV:
good 83, better 7, honest 5, meet 2, goodly 2, misc 3Total: 102
Lk 18
'And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is , God.'Number 18
Transliteration:
agathos {ag-ath-os'}
Word Origin:
a primary word
TDNT:
1:10,3
Part of Speech:
adjective
Usage in the KJV:
good 77, good thing 14, that which is good3588 8, the thing which is good3588 1, well 1, benefit 1Total: 102
Different words
I didn't quote that verse, WJ did. But I certainly affirm that Yeshua is “good”.Tell me what you think, was He relatively good or absolutely good?
Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 28 2007,20:02) Hi Is 1.18 Lk 18
11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.Number 2570
Transliteration:
kalos {kal-os'}
Word Origin:
of uncertain affinity
TDNT:
3:536,402
Part of Speech:
adjective
Usage in the KJV:
good 83, better 7, honest 5, meet 2, goodly 2, misc 3Total: 102
Lk 18
'And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is , God.'Number 18
Transliteration:
agathos {ag-ath-os'}
Word Origin:
a primary word
TDNT:
1:10,3
Part of Speech:
adjective
Usage in the KJV:
good 77, good thing 14, that which is good3588 8, the thing which is good3588 1, well 1, benefit 1Total: 102
Different words
“Kalos is simply a synonym for agathos. In Luke 8:15, we find the two words used interchangeably: “But the seed in the good (kalos) ground, these are the ones who have heard the word in an honest and good (agathos) heart…” The good ground represents the good hearts of the hearers.”
http://www.forananswer.org/Mark/Mk10_18.htmWhy would you offer them if they are irrelavent? Why would you bother posting anything at all here if you deem it all irrelavent?
Can you answer my question?
Quote Tell me what you think, was He relatively good or absolutely good? Hi Is 1.18
You ask
“Tell me what you think, was He relatively good or absolutely good? “Why should we offer opinions on a biblical site?
Opinions and reliance on logic and inference leads men off the path of truth.Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 28 2007,21:45) Why should we offer opinions on a biblical site?
Because that's what people do here. That's the main reason message boards exist.Quote Opinions and reliance on logic and inference leads men off the path of truth.
You are free to deem your opinion worthless if it means avoiding answering an awkward question. I think it's better to just front up with an answer and be honest about the real value you attach to your opinion.Quote (Is 1:18 @ June 28 2007,07:03) Quote (Not3in1 @ June 28 2007,17:31) Quote (Is 1:18 @ June 28 2007,16:51) Quote (Not3in1 @ June 28 2007,15:43) Only this – there is One God – the Father – and one Lord – Jesus Christ.
So the Father is, in no sense, our Lord?
My turn…….now you're being silly, Isaiah!
Well, there was serious point in it. If you interpret 1 Cor 8:6 as a exclusivist statement of ontology, then it works both ways….Jesus is in no sense our God but equally the Father is in no sense our Lord….it's quicksand…..
That's right.
In the context of 1 Cor 8.6 the Father is not the 'One Lord'; just as Jesus is not the 'One God'Why?
Because the ONE GOD, YAHWEH, the Father, has made Jesus of Nazareth, both Lord and Messiah … GOD has made him 'Lord of all' [Acts 2.36, 10.36]Hence
(Phil 2:11) And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.There is indeed a difference between LORD and Lord especially in the Hebrew text.
LORD in caps is GOD's Name, viz. YAHWEH
He is called 'Lord' that is, He is called Adonai (449 times in the Hebrew text)
No man including Jesus is called Adonai; that alone is GOD's title.YAHWEH alone is Adonai
Therefore the ONE GOD, ADONAI YAHWEH [Lord GOD in our English text];
has made the man Messiah Jesus, the One Lord of all.
It goes without saying that Christ's Lordship does not include YAHWEH GOD ALMIGHTY
(cp. 1 Cor 15.27 he is excepted)So, Paul declares that in this world of so-called gods & lords;
to US [THE EARLY APOSTOLIC CHURCH]
there is ONE God, the Father …
and there is ONE Lord, Jesus the MessiahThat is it! These claims are exclusive.
- Almighty GOD alone is GOD … there is no other almighty or co-equal God besides Him! He alone is GOD, there is no other.
YAHWEH alone is the ONE GOD, the Father. The Only True GOD [John 17.3]
(1 Cor 8:4) … that there is none other God but one. - And Jesus of Nazareth the Messiah is the ONE Lord. He alone is the ONE Lord; because the Only True GOD, his Father; has made him 'Lord' to His (GOD's) glory.
- So, ONE GOD, the Father
and ONE Man, the Lord Jesus the Messiah, the Son of the Father. [2 john 3] - (1 Tim 2:5) For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men,
the man Christ Jesus;It can't be broken down much simpler than that!
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 28 2007,16:37) Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 28 2007,16:35) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 28 2007,16:15) Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 28 2007,15:37) Hi not3,
Those who accept trinity cannot align this God with the OT.
They must say the God of the NT supercedes the revelation of God in the OT.
They must actually reject the OT in favour of the NT yet a good storeman uses both.
They say they see glimpses of their god in the OT but can never find anything written about such a being.
As you show this god is a new and strange unbiblical god.
We should abhor such teaching about new gods.
WE have a true God.
His son told us.
Those who are Henotheist, basically Polytheist, daibolically appose the Monotheistic teachings of the OT scriptures.Their doctrine teaches that God made everything through a “lesser god” or “lessor being”, that they call “a son of God” before he was ever born a son!
They deny the Hebrew scriptures. Look!
Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;
Isa 45:21
Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and *there is no God else beside me*; a just God and a Saviour; *there is none beside me*.Isa 46:9
Remember the former things of old: for *I am God, and there is none else*; I am God, and *there is none like me*,
How do they explain this?
Hi W,
You boast of your logic but then present this claim of one God having recently told us of two or even three deities. What gives?
NH
Quote Not so! When have you heard me claim three deitys? One God, Three persons, One Spirit!
Forgive me WJ but would you please explain that statement.
Are you saying that one Spirit is in three persons? Or is the Spirit ONE OF the three persons? If so then what are the other two persons? One Spirit would indicate that the other two are not Spirit. And if the Spirit is a person then wouldn't that mean that you are saying that there are three persons and One Spirit-Person?
Do you mean that God is three persons and one of the three is the Spirit? If so then shouldn't it be Two persons and one Spirit-Person? Or three persons and one of them is the Spirit.
Or two persons and One Spirit? Two persons having the same Spirit.
I'm sorry but to me you are saying that there are three persons and one Spirit. If the Spirit is a person then wouldn't that make FOUR (4) Persons?
Please clarify that for me, PLEASE!
Quote (Adam Pastor @ June 29 2007,00:15) Quote (Is 1:18 @ June 28 2007,07:03) Quote (Not3in1 @ June 28 2007,17:31) Quote (Is 1:18 @ June 28 2007,16:51) Quote (Not3in1 @ June 28 2007,15:43) Only this – there is One God – the Father – and one Lord – Jesus Christ.
So the Father is, in no sense, our Lord?
My turn…….now you're being silly, Isaiah!
Well, there was serious point in it. If you interpret 1 Cor 8:6 as a exclusivist statement of ontology, then it works both ways….Jesus is in no sense our God but equally the Father is in no sense our Lord….it's quicksand…..
That's right.
In the context of 1 Cor 8.6 the Father is not the 'One Lord'; just as Jesus is not the 'One God'Why?
Because the ONE GOD, YAHWEH, the Father, has made Jesus of Nazareth, both Lord and Messiah … GOD has made him 'Lord of all' [Acts 2.36, 10.36]Hence
(Phil 2:11) And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.There is indeed a difference between LORD and Lord especially in the Hebrew text.
LORD in caps is GOD's Name, viz. YAHWEH
He is called 'Lord' that is, He is called Adonai (449 times in the Hebrew text)
No man including Jesus is called Adonai; that alone is GOD's title.YAHWEH alone is Adonai
Therefore the ONE GOD, ADONAI YAHWEH [Lord GOD in our English text];
has made the man Messiah Jesus, the One Lord of all.
It goes without saying that Christ's Lordship does not include YAHWEH GOD ALMIGHTY
(cp. 1 Cor 15.27 he is excepted)So, Paul declares that in this world of so-called gods & lords;
to US [THE EARLY APOSTOLIC CHURCH]
there is ONE God, the Father …
and there is ONE Lord, Jesus the MessiahThat is it! These claims are exclusive.
- Almighty GOD alone is GOD … there is no other almighty or co-equal God besides Him! He alone is GOD, there is no other.
YAHWEH alone is the ONE GOD, the Father. The Only True GOD [John 17.3]
(1 Cor 8:4) … that there is none other God but one. - And Jesus of Nazareth the Messiah is the ONE Lord. He alone is the ONE Lord; because the Only True GOD, his Father; has made him 'Lord' to His (GOD's) glory.
- So, ONE GOD, the Father
and ONE Man, the Lord Jesus the Messiah, the Son of the Father. [2 john 3] - (1 Tim 2:5) For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men,
the man Christ Jesus;It can't be broken down much simpler than that!
Adam Pastor are trying to break up the party of confusion? That is just TOO simple!
Smith has a son. Is his son a Smith? If Smith owns everything does that means his son does too? If the son of Smith owns everything then what does his father own? Does the father, Smith, own the son, Smith, who owns everything?
Quote (Not3in1 @ June 28 2007,18:36) Quote (Is 1:18 @ June 28 2007,18:25) and therefore He was not denying he was God either
I personally think that Jesus is disappointed to see that he spent his whole ministry pointing us to his Father, and to his God – only to see that we have made HIM the object of our praise and worship; indeed we have made HIM God.HE is the Son of God.
AMEN Sister!Quote (Is 1:18 @ June 28 2007,19:25) Quote (Not3in1 @ June 28 2007,18:36) Quote (Is 1:18 @ June 28 2007,18:25) and therefore He was not denying he was God either
I personally think that Jesus is disappointed to see that he spent his whole ministry pointing us to his Father, and to his God – only to see that we have made HIM the object of our praise and worship; indeed we have made HIM God.HE is the Son of God.
Not3, if Yeshua is not the object of your praise then you are out of step with the NT writers….Gotta go, home group tonight….
Isaiah,The OT is quite thicker than the NT, is it not? Ha! My point is that God is a jealous God! He desires praise, honor, and glory for BEING GOD ALMIGHTY! Since there is only ONE GOD ALMIGHTY – He wants us to recognize who he is.
The Father is God alone.
Jesus also wanted us to recognize who he was. That was really important to him. It's important to us on a very real level that those we are intimate with – know who we are! If they do not know who we are, we certainly will not be vulnerable to them and share our deepest heart. Jesus told us who he was – he is the Son of God.
Paul confirms what these two have told us (what God has told us about himself, and what Jesus has told us about himself). Paul says that for US there is but ONE GOD, and ONE Jesus Christ.
Did Jesus direct us to “his” ministry and “his” teachings? Of course he did. He was on a mission – he had been sent to bring in the new covenant. Of course he is going to be the center of that covenant. But he never took our eyes off of God and put them on him! In John 17, Jesus prayed and thanked God for giving him his people. He told God that these people “knew for certain” who is was. And he felt his mission on earth was near completion.
Who did Peter confess Jesus to be?
Peter did not worship Jesus as God! If Peter did not worship Jesus as God, then I think I'm safe to follow his example. Considering he is one of the NT writers……I will heed your warning, but look to scripture to give me final direction.
Quote (Adam Pastor @ June 29 2007,00:15) Quote (Is 1:18 @ June 28 2007,07:03) Quote (Not3in1 @ June 28 2007,17:31) Quote (Is 1:18 @ June 28 2007,16:51) Quote (Not3in1 @ June 28 2007,15:43) Only this – there is One God – the Father – and one Lord – Jesus Christ.
So the Father is, in no sense, our Lord?
My turn…….now you're being silly, Isaiah!
Well, there was serious point in it. If you interpret 1 Cor 8:6 as a exclusivist statement of ontology, then it works both ways….Jesus is in no sense our God but equally the Father is in no sense our Lord….it's quicksand…..
That's right.
In the context of 1 Cor 8.6 the Father is not the 'One Lord'; just as Jesus is not the 'One God'Why?
Because the ONE GOD, YAHWEH, the Father, has made Jesus of Nazareth, both Lord and Messiah … GOD has made him 'Lord of all' [Acts 2.36, 10.36]Hence
(Phil 2:11) And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.There is indeed a difference between LORD and Lord especially in the Hebrew text.
LORD in caps is GOD's Name, viz. YAHWEH
He is called 'Lord' that is, He is called Adonai (449 times in the Hebrew text)
No man including Jesus is called Adonai; that alone is GOD's title.YAHWEH alone is Adonai
Therefore the ONE GOD, ADONAI YAHWEH [Lord GOD in our English text];
has made the man Messiah Jesus, the One Lord of all.
It goes without saying that Christ's Lordship does not include YAHWEH GOD ALMIGHTY
(cp. 1 Cor 15.27 he is excepted)So, Paul declares that in this world of so-called gods & lords;
to US [THE EARLY APOSTOLIC CHURCH]
there is ONE God, the Father …
and there is ONE Lord, Jesus the MessiahThat is it! These claims are exclusive.
- Almighty GOD alone is GOD … there is no other almighty or co-equal God besides Him! He alone is GOD, there is no other.
YAHWEH alone is the ONE GOD, the Father. The Only True GOD [John 17.3]
(1 Cor 8:4) … that there is none other God but one. - And Jesus of Nazareth the Messiah is the ONE Lord. He alone is the ONE Lord; because the Only True GOD, his Father; has made him 'Lord' to His (GOD's) glory.
- So, ONE GOD, the Father
and ONE Man, the Lord Jesus the Messiah, the Son of the Father. [2 john 3] - (1 Tim 2:5) For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men,
the man Christ Jesus;It can't be broken down much simpler than that!
Ya, this is what I meant to say! PS – thanks brother!
Quote (Adam Pastor @ June 29 2007,00:15) That's right.
In the context of 1 Cor 8.6 the Father is not the 'One Lord'; just as Jesus is not the 'One God'Why?
Because the ONE GOD, YAHWEH, the Father, has made Jesus of Nazareth, both Lord and Messiah … GOD has made him 'Lord of all' [Acts 2.36, 10.36]Hence
(Phil 2:11) And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.
Well that's interesting AP. By your logic Jesus would have surplanted YHWH as our ultimate authority (owner, ruler, sovereign). Like I said, if you assert that Paul is making a statement of ontological exclusivity in writing 1 Cor 8:6 it creates more dilemmas than it solves. This is especially true when the remaining part of the verse is taken into consideration:1 Corinthians 8:6
yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him.If Jesus is being contrasted with “God” by Paul here then why does he go on to say: “by whom are all things, and we exist through Him”? The context of the verse suggests “all things” owe both the origin and preservation of their very existence to both God and Jesus. They worked together in bringing all things into existence and they work together in preserving the Creation. That's not something Paul would write if his intention was to dichotomise the ontologies of God and Jesus. Quite the opposite. If you read 1 Cor 8:1-7 carefully it's apparent that the distinction that Paul is driving at is not Jesus vs God, it's Jesus/God vs false gods. It's because of his language in the passage that some people see this passage as Paul's attempt to rework the Shema (Deut 6:4), placing Jesus right in the centre of it…..
FYC:
http://www.northpark.edu/sem/exauditu/papers/wright.html
Quote There is indeed a difference between LORD and Lord especially in the Hebrew text. LORD in caps is GOD's Name, viz. YAHWEH
He is called 'Lord' that is, He is called Adonai (449 times in the Hebrew text)
No man including Jesus is called Adonai; that alone is GOD's title.
How is this relevant to 1 Cor 8:6? The word at issue is “kurios” and it's used of both the Father and Son to denote 'authority' (owner, ruler, sovereign). It's also used of both in contexts that demand a “YHWH” rendering (e.g. Rom 10:-9-13).Quote YAHWEH alone is Adonai
Therefore the ONE GOD, ADONAI YAHWEH [Lord GOD in our English text];
has made the man Messiah Jesus, the One Lord of all.
It goes without saying that Christ's Lordship does not include YAHWEH GOD ALMIGHTY
(cp. 1 Cor 15.27 he is excepted)
I would be interested in seeing you prove that in every instance “adonai” is used in the OT that it explicitly refers to the Father of Jesus…..Quote So, Paul declares that in this world of so-called gods & lords;
to US [THE EARLY APOSTOLIC CHURCH]
there is ONE God, the Father …
and there is ONE Lord, Jesus the Messiah
See my point above about Paul's intended distinction.Quote That is it! These claims are exclusive. - Almighty GOD alone is GOD … there is no other almighty or co-equal God besides Him! He alone is GOD, there is no other.
YAHWEH alone is the ONE GOD, the Father. The Only True GOD [John 17.3]
(1 Cor 8:4) … that there is none other God but one.
I guess someone forgot to tell Thomas (John 20:28).
Quote - And Jesus of Nazareth the Messiah is the ONE Lord. He alone is the ONE Lord; because the Only True GOD, his Father; has made him 'Lord' to His (GOD's) glory.
If the Father is God to the exclusion of Jesus then equally Jesus is Lord to the exclusion of God. And if this is true then the Father has no right of authority over us. None.Quote - So, ONE GOD, the Father
and ONE Man, the Lord Jesus the Messiah, the Son of the Father. [2 john 3]Alright AP, given that you evidently believe that Jesus is Lord (master) to the exclusion of the Father, tell me how this verse fits into that formula:
Luke 16:13
13″No servant can serve two masters [Gr. kurios]; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or else he will be devoted to one and despise the other You cannot serve God and wealth.”The implication here is we are to devotely serve only one master (kurios), and that master is God. If Jesus is our ONLY Lord then it logically follows that He is also “God” in this verse. Right?
Quote - (1 Tim 2:5) For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men,
the man Christ Jesus;It can't be broken down much simpler than that!
What better mediator that One who is both man and God….Blessings
Hi Is 1.18,
You say
“Well that's interesting AP. By your logic Jesus would have surplanted YHWH as our ultimate authority (owner, ruler, sovereign).Christ is appointed our Lord and speaks for God and acts for us with God as our mediator.
Would you rather oppose the plan of God?“Like I said, if you assert that Paul is making a statement of ontological exclusivity in writing 1 Cor 8:6 it creates more dilemmas than it solves.”
'Ontological' is not in the bible so it introduces an unnecessary human measure to put it here
“This is especially true when the remaining part of the verse is taken into consideration:
1 Corinthians 8:6
yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him”We have died in baptism [rom6]and are alive in the Spirit of Christ. Our real life is with and in Christ the mediator of God's powers and life for us.
Hi Is 1.18,
More“If the Father is God to the exclusion of Jesus then equally Jesus is Lord to the exclusion of God. And if this is true then the Father has no right of authority over us”
So logic rules over scripture?
You should learn from the centurion who understood given authority.
Lk 7
“1Now when he had ended all his sayings in the audience of the people, he entered into Capernaum.2And a certain centurion's servant, who was dear unto him, was sick, and ready to die.
3And when he heard of Jesus, he sent unto him the elders of the Jews, beseeching him that he would come and heal his servant.
4And when they came to Jesus, they besought him instantly, saying, That he was worthy for whom he should do this:
5For he loveth our nation, and he hath built us a synagogue.
6Then Jesus went with them. And when he was now not far from the house, the centurion sent friends to him, saying unto him, Lord, trouble not thyself: for I am not worthy that thou shouldest enter under my roof:
7Wherefore neither thought I myself worthy to come unto thee: but say in a word, and my servant shall be healed.
8For I also am a man set under authority, having under me soldiers, and I say unto one, Go, and he goeth; and to another, Come, and he cometh; and to my servant, Do this, and he doeth it.
9When Jesus heard these things, he marvelled at him, and turned him about, and said unto the people that followed him, I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel.
10And they that were sent, returning to the house, found the servant whole that had been sick.'
Christ rules for God till he gives the kingdom back to his God.
1Cor 15
” 22For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.23But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
27For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
28And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.”
Any doubts that God was and is always God?
Hi Is 1,18,
Who is your Lord?
Who is his Lord God?Lords have Lords.
That is why one is called Lord of LordsRevelation 17:14
These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.Yet he too is subject to his Lord God.
- Almighty GOD alone is GOD … there is no other almighty or co-equal God besides Him! He alone is GOD, there is no other.
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