Preexistence

[mikeboll64]

Quote (t8 @ Feb. 29 2012,09:40)

Acts 2:36 “Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ.”

The wording of Acts 2:36 makes it sound like God made Jesus Lord and Christ AFTER he was crucified.  I only point this out to show why scripture as a whole is better than one verse taken alone.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Feb. 28 2012,17:13)

Mike…………..Jesus was and is Both Lord and the Anointed one the (CHRISTOS). But none of that makes him preexist his berth on this earth.

I agree Gene. Luke 2:11 is not one of the 50 scriptures that teach the pre-existence of Jesus.

[Proclaimer]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 29 2012,13:55)

Quote (t8 @ Feb. 29 2012,09:40) Acts 2:36 “Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ.” The wording of Acts 2:36 makes it sound like God made Jesus Lord and Christ AFTER he was crucified.  I only point this out to show why scripture as a whole is better than one verse taken alone.

Yes that is right. This verse does not say that.

🙂

[Proclaimer]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 29 2012,13:09)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 28 2012,16:47) Quote (t8 @ Feb. 29 2012,09:40) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 29 2012,11:52) Hi T8, Paul compared the relationship with Christ and the church to the spiritual unity of marriage.[1Cor6, eph5] I believe the same apples to the man Jesus and the CHRISTOS anointing. His Spirit binds to us as it does to him. I think we are all on the same page here. Acts 2:36 “Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ.” What exactly is it that I disagree with? Hi t8, Good verse. Jesus MADE Lord and Christ I say the anointing was by the Spirit of Christ and God. Maybe nothing to disagree on. The angel in Luke 2 says Jesus was born both Lord and Christ.

No disagreement there.

“Do not be afraid. I bring you good news that will cause great joy for all the people. 11 Today in the town of David a Savior has been born to you; he is the Messiah, the Lord. 12 This will be a sign to you: You will find a baby wrapped in cloths and lying in a manger.”

[NickHassan]

Hi MB,
You say
“I only point this out to show why scripture as a whole is better than one verse taken alone. “
True

[GeneBalthrop]

MIke and Terricca……………” And it shall come to pass afterward, that I (Yahweh) will pour out my SPIRIT upon all flesh; an d your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dreams dreams, your young men shall see visions: and also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will i pour out my Spirit.

and again. “And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God and report that God is (IN) you of a truth”

and again..> For it is GOD which works (IN) You Both to will and do of His good pleasure.

I could go on and on with this but it would be of no avail you simply do not believe scripture that show God can INDWELL a PERSON. IMO

peace and love…………………………….gene

[terraricca]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Feb. 29 2012,18:29)

MIke and Terricca……………” And it shall come to pass afterward, that I (Yahweh) will pour out my SPIRIT upon all flesh; an d your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dreams dreams, your young men shall see visions: and also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will i pour out my Spirit. and again.  “And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God and report that God is (IN) you of a truth” and again..>    For it is GOD which works (IN) You Both to will and do of His  good pleasure. I could go on and on with this but it would be of no avail you simply do not believe scripture that show God can INDWELL a PERSON.  IMO peace and love…………………………….gene

gene

Joel 2:15 Blow the trumpet in Zion,
declare a holy fast,
call a sacred assembly.
Joel 2:16 Gather the people,
consecrate the assembly;
bring together the elders,
gather the children,
those nursing at the breast.
Let the bridegroom leave his room
and the bride her chamber.
Joel 2:17 Let the priests, who minister before the LORD,
weep between the temple porch and the altar.
Let them say, “Spare your people, O LORD.
Do not make your inheritance an object of scorn,
a byword among the nations.
Why should they say among the peoples,
‘Where is their God?’ ”

Joel 2:18 Then the LORD will be jealous for his land
and take pity on his people.
Joel 2:19 The LORD will reply to them:
“I am sending you grain, new wine and oil,
enough to satisfy you fully;
never again will I make you
an object of scorn to the nations.

Surely the LORD has done great things.
Joel 2:22 Be not afraid, O wild animals,
for the open pastures are becoming green.
The trees are bearing their fruit;
the fig tree and the vine yield their riches.
Joel 2:23 Be glad, O people of Zion,
rejoice in the LORD your God,
for he has given you
the autumn rains in righteousness.
He sends you abundant showers,
both autumn and spring rains, as before.
Joel 2:24 The threshing floors will be filled with grain;
the vats will overflow with new wine and oil.

Joel 2:25 “I will repay you for the years the locusts have eaten—
the great locust and the young locust,
the other locusts and the locust swarm—
my great army that I sent among you.
Joel 2:26 You will have plenty to eat, until you are full,
and you will praise the name of the LORD your God,
who has worked wonders for you;
never again will my people be shamed.
Joel 2:27 Then you will know that I am in Israel,
that I am the LORD your God,
and that there is no other;
never again will my people be shamed.

Joel 2:28 “And afterward,
I will pour out my Spirit on all people.
Your sons and daughters will prophesy,
your old men will dream dreams,
your young men will see visions.
Joel 2:29 Even on my servants, both men and women,
I will pour out my Spirit in those days.
Joel 2:30 I will show wonders in the heavens
and on the earth,
blood and fire and billows of smoke.
Joel 2:31 The sun will be turned to darkness
and the moon to blood
before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD.
Joel 2:32 And everyone who calls
on the name of the LORD will be saved;
for on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem
there will be deliverance,
as the LORD has said,
among the survivors
whom the LORD calls.

Joel 3:1 “In those days and at that time,
when I restore the fortunes of Judah and Jerusalem,
Joel 3:2 I will gather all nations

YES GOD DID ALL THOSE THINGS ,BUT NOT AS YOU SPELL IT OUT ,

WERE ARE YOUR SCRIPTURES????

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Feb. 28 2012,18:29)

MIke and Terricca…………… I could go on and on with this but it would be of no avail you simply do not believe scripture that show God can INDWELL a PERSON.  IMO

What are you talking about, Gene? God can be in us via spirit. But God lives in heaven, and has never physically or literally been inside any human body.

Why are you addressing your post to me?

[Proclaimer]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Feb. 29 2012,14:29)

MIke and Terricca……………” And it shall come to pass afterward, that I (Yahweh) will pour out my SPIRIT upon all flesh; an d your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dreams dreams, your young men shall see visions: and also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will i pour out my Spirit. and again.  “And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God and report that God is (IN) you of a truth” and again..>    For it is GOD which works (IN) You Both to will and do of His  good pleasure. I could go on and on with this but it would be of no avail you simply do not believe scripture that show God can INDWELL a PERSON.  IMO peace and love…………………………….gene

Gene we all understand that a believer has God's spirit in them. I have no idea what your point is because it seems that you want to argue about something we agree with.

[NickHassan]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 29 2012,10:56)

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Feb. 28 2012,17:13) Mike…………..Jesus was and is Both Lord and the Anointed one the  (CHRISTOS). But none of that makes him preexist his berth on this earth. I agree Gene.  Luke 2:11 is not one of the 50 scriptures that teach the pre-existence of Jesus.

Hi MB,
The man Jesus or Jesus CHRIST?
Men do not pre exist.

[shimmer]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Feb. 29 2012,03:42)

Quote (shimmer @ Feb. 28 2012,16:06) I also know that in the 'Shepperd of Hermas', Jesus was just a man, and the pre-existant Spirit was in him.  The doctrine over this type of 'Adoptionism' and the other has been debated since the Early Days. When John 1.1 says 'In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God'.  If we know that God is one and that Scripture says there is only ONE God.  Clearly this means what it says.  What I write here or what I speak (my word) is not me ENTIRELY is it? Anyway, just my probably error filled view as to pre-existance.  I don't really want to get caught up in this. Shimmer …….This is a true Post you have posted here and it is important issue and does effect the truth very greately , becasue it deals with the Identity we Identity with Jesus with and His humanity and our Humanity, It deals with How God reaches a pure Human Being like we are and by Revealing  into his mind an changing his heart can perfect him just as he did to the Man Jesus and How a ordinary Man can inherit eternal life through the (EXACT SAME) Process as the MAN JESUS DID.   This work of “SEPARATION” seeks to destory the Work of GOD in Man KIND and not only that it destory the very work of a Man the Man Jesus the Christ. This false mindset make Jesus different them we are, it creates another form of worship to idolize another person other then GOD himself , While Jesus the Man Has been Highly Exhausted from his earthly existence is true, but that Exultation he has never existed had before his resurrection from the dead, a Glory and Honor we can all equally share in. You see what the preexistences preach destroys Hope and faith in those possibilities that exists, that GOD wants us all to Have through the MAN Jesus, This “SEPARATION” is a Destroyer of True Faith All who preach and teach it will recieve a Just recompense in time.  IMO peace and love to you and yours…………………………..gene

Gene, I'm too tired to answer this post too (Yawn) but it has been read.  Thanks.

And Irene too.

[GeneBalthrop]

To all…………. We need to understand what a Spirit (IS) and if we understand that then we can understand how GOD can (INDWELL) a person as he did Jesus. Then you can say like Jesus did that GOD was (IN) HIM. of a truth.

Jesus said….> But if i Do , though ye believe not me, believe the works; that you may know and believe, that the Father is “IN ME”, and I am “IN HIM”

Jesus said….> Believe you not that I am (IN) the Father and the Father in me? the words that I Speak unto you I speak not of “MYSELF”: but the Father that “DWELLS” (IN) ME, he does the works.

How Plain can it be, no confusion here GOD was TRULY (IN) JESUS. God was Present everywhere Jesus was by virtue of his Spirit being (IN) Jesus and Thomas was exactly right when he can to see this, and said my Lord “AND” my GOD

Even the Trinitarians acknowledge GOD PRESENCE with JESUS, They just think that Jesus was that GOD who was Present (IN) HIM. But the preexistences here cant even see GOD”S Presence with JESUS>

This is simply amazing to me at the level of blindness here , why cant people just believe what Jesus PLAINLY SAID, GOD was TRULY (IN) HIM. Why can't we at least all come to agreement on that simple Point ?

The Key is understanding what a SPIRIT IS> IMO

peace and love to you all………………………….gene

[NickHassan]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 29 2012,10:56)

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Feb. 28 2012,17:13) Mike…………..Jesus was and is Both Lord and the Anointed one the  (CHRISTOS). But none of that makes him preexist his berth on this earth. I agree Gene.  Luke 2:11 is not one of the 50 scriptures that teach the pre-existence of Jesus.

Hi MB,
Jesus did not pre exist.
He is the son of Man.
His anointing did .

[Ed J]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 29 2012,10:51)

Good one, Pierre.

Hi Mike,

Pierre's English has come a long way!

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Proclaimer]

Nick is Jesus the flesh or that which resided in the flesh.

[Proclaimer]

God created all things through Jesus Christ, his son, the Word of God.
No point in arguing against any of this because it is clearly written.

It is also written that Jesus existed in the form of God, emptied himself, came in the flesh, died, rose again, and is seated at the right hand of the Father in the glory that he had with the father before the world began.

So he may not have been called Jesus before partaking of the flesh. He might not have had a body that people recognize as Jesus. And he may not have even been called the son before being conceived. But scripture tells us he is a mystery and that God indeed created all things through Jesus Christ, the son, the Word. We also know that he had glory with the Father before the world began. So all we can do is accept it.

Ephesians 3:9
and to make plain to everyone the administration of this mystery, which for ages past was kept hidden in God, who created all things.

John 1:1-3
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.

1 Corinthians 8:6
yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

Colossians 1:15
15 The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him.

Hebrews 1:2
but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe.

To say that God did not create the cosmos through his Word, Son, or Jesus Christ is plain wrong as these scriptures clearly show.

So what is there left to debate? He is a mystery so there is obviously gaps as there are in any mystery, but what we know is what scripture says, and it says that God created all things through him. Why argue outside of what is revealed, because only that which comes from the Spirit is of God and the rest is of man?

So let's be led by the Spirit of God and receive revelation from scripture. He who is led by God's spirit is God's son.

[NickHassan]

Hi t8
It is written about Jesus CHRIST in phil2
The ANOINTING is vital

[Lightenup]

Quote

To say that God did not create the cosmos through his Word, Son, or Jesus Christ is plain wrong as these scriptures clearly show. So what is there left to debate? He is a mystery so there is obviously gaps as there are in any mystery, but what we know is what scripture says, and it says that God created all things through him. Why argue outside of what is revealed, because only that which comes from the Spirit is of God and the rest is of man? So let's be led by the Spirit of God and receive revelation from scripture. He who is led by God's spirit is God's son.

Good call t8! If people did this there would be a whole lot less confusion on here!!

God bless,
Kathi

[NickHassan]

Yes LU,
The Word was with God.
Jesus needed to be anointed by the Spirit of Christ

[terraricca]

Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 01 2012,11:10)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 29 2012,10:51) Good one, Pierre.   Hi Mike, Pierre's English has come a long way! God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

it is doe to most of you in your patience that I could make and develop my skill

and for that I thank you all

[Author]

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