Phillipians 2

Participant

Quote (Jodi Lee @ Sep. 22 2010,16:12)

Hi Mike,

I LOVE Philippians 2!

We see a pattern in the OT of men who are full of pride, not acknowledging the gifts of YHWH, or acknowledging them only for a time and then turning their backs on Him. The King of Tyrus who received power and wisdom from YHWH is the perfect example of this, and he took it so far as to declare himself a god.

Hi Jodi,

Please explain to us all here, how the king of Tyrus was in the garden of Eden?

Ezekiel 28:13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God;

Also please explain to us all here, why the king of Tyrus is being called the anointed cherub that covereth?

Ezekiel 28:14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth;

Since you mention the king of Tyrus, surly you should know the answers to these questions!

Witnessing to a worldwide audience in behalf of YHVH!
יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 49:16 / Isaiah 60:14)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org (Ecl.9:12-16)

September 22, 2010 at 5:59 am#217132

Participant

Quote (Jodi Lee @ Sep. 22 2010,16:12)

Hi Mike,

Let's get this strait[/u], Jesus was born a human being. We know that the Messiah was a promise made to David that would be one day fulfilled, that included his genes. To deny Jesus our Messiah as coming in the flesh, is to be of the antichrist, as scripture warns us. He is as well called many times the Son of MAN, so we should keep that in mind when reading Philippians 2.

Hi Jodi,

Once again Jodi I must be very technical with you!
Here is why Jesus is called both the “Son of Man” and the “Son of God”…

Mother Father
Mary HolySpirit
50% 50%
\ /
\ /
Jesus
/ \
/ \
/ \
Son of Man Son of God
(Mark 6:3) (Luke 1:35)

Son of Man: 25%; Mary's mother's lineage was of the tribe of Levi. (Luke 1:5, 1:36)
Son of Man: 25%: Mary's father's lineage was (Judah) through Nathan(son of David). (Luke 3:23-31)
Son of God: 50%: The HolySpirit was Jesus' Father; Joseph was NOT Jesus' Father! (Matt.1:18 / Matt.1:20 / Luke 1:35)

Birth: Jesus was 50% HolySpirit(God)(Matt.1:18 / Matt.1:20 / Luke 1:35), 25% Levite(Priest) and 25% Judah(King)!
Baptism by John the baptizer, Jesus was filled with the “HolySpirit”(God) beyond measure! (John 3:34 / John 1:14)

Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH (Psalm 45:17)
יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 60:13-15)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

September 22, 2010 at 2:57 pm#217171

Participant

Quote (Jodi Lee @ Sep. 22 2010,16:12)

Hi Mike,

I LOVE Philippians 2!

We see a pattern actually in ALL of history of men abusing their power. Scripture tells us it is God that raises up kings and cuts them down, He puts down one and exalts another. Men can’t handle fame, money and power, they disgrace themselves and God.

Of all these MEN however we do in fact have one great exception!

Acts 10:38 how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power, who went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with Him.

The POWER that was bestowed upon Jesus by the Father through the Father’s Spirit, was unlike anything that had ever been given to man. Through these powers that were given to Jesus by the Father, at the river Jordon, Jesus CAME in the FORM of God. Though in that form he was seen as equal having the same powers of His Father, no pride was found in him, rather he was humble, and never used the powers given to him for his own gain, but used them to serve the Father and all of mankind.

Let's get this strait, Jesus was born a human being. We know that the Messiah was a promise made to David that would be one day fulfilled, that included his genes. To deny Jesus our Messiah as coming in the flesh, is to be of the antichrist, as scripture warns us. He is as well called many times the Son of MAN, so we should keep that in mind when reading Philippians 2.

Philippians 2:1 Therefore if there is any consolation in Christ, if any comfort of love, if any fellowship of the Spirit, if any affection and mercy, 2 fulfill my joy by being like-minded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind. 3 Let nothing be done through selfish ambition or conceit, but in lowliness of mind let each esteem others better than himself. 4 Let each of you look out not only for his own interests, but also for the interests of others. 5 Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, 7 but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. 8 And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross. 9 Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name, 10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, 11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Paul was giving a message to others who had gifts of the Holy Spirit, people who received powers on Pentecost, such powers as the ability to heal. He was giving them a great example of the mind set the MAN Jesus had, which was tremendous humbleness and service, with no ounce of desire for selfishness and personal gain. Paul says, “Let this MIND be in you which was also in Jesus Christ who….”

HOW were those who Paul was speaking to suppose to be like minded with some spirit son deciding to come to earth and disguise himself as a human being?

Truly such doctrine bears no fruit. The pre-existence doctrine applied to this scripture IMO brings great disgrace to Jesus and the identity of him that causes us to want to bow down to him.

Jodi………AMEN SIS. For the life of me i can not understand why people who say they are Christians can not understand these thing. They profess GOD (BUT) deny his power , They Profess Jesus and Give HIM power and Credit that belongs to GOD ONLY. They move Jesus away from their identity and likeness and destory the word and Work of GOD. They are Antichrists and separatist of us and Jesus and not only are they against Jesus but against GOD also even though they are to ignorant to realize it. IMO

peace and love to you and yours Jodi…………………..gene

September 22, 2010 at 10:03 pm#217209

Participant

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 23 2010,01:57)

Quote (Jodi Lee @ Sep. 22 2010,16:12)

Hi Mike,

I LOVE Philippians 2!

Of all these MEN however we do in fact have one great exception!

Acts 10:38 how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power, who went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with Him.

HOW were those who Paul was speaking to suppose to be like minded with some spirit son deciding to come to earth and disguise himself as a human being?

Truly such doctrine bears no fruit. The pre-existence doctrine applied to this scripture IMO brings great disgrace to Jesus and the identity of him that causes us to want to bow down to him.

peace and love to you and yours Jodi…………………..gene

Gene! At times I have defended you of being a Christian, when Pierre said something what you just did. Why are you doing this? What is it that will destroy us who believe like Mike does, the grace that we as Christian have? The only thing that will destroy us, is the doctrine of the trinity, and not believing that Christ came to die for us…. Just because you and Jodi, for that matte,r don't understand the preexisting of Jesus does not alsdo destroy grace…. Christ died for all of us and not only you…… So the next time someone disagrees with you think about it, before you judge Him of Her…..Peace Irene

September 22, 2010 at 10:09 pm#217212

Participant

Quote (Baker @ Sep. 22 2010,03:57)

Gene! I can't find the post you made when you asked me to produce a Scripture in the Old Test. here is what Mike said.

———————————————————

Revelation 3:14 (King James Version)
14And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true Witness, the beginning of the creation of God.

How about these:

Proverbs 8:22-23 NIV
22 “The LORD brought me forth as the first of his works, before his deeds of old;

23 I was fashioned from eternity, from the beginning, before the world began.

Micah 5:2 NIV
2 “But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah,
though you are small among the clans of Judah,
out of you will come for me
one who will be ruler over Israel,
whose origins are from of old,
from ancient times.”

As far as I am concerned the New Test. has several Scriptures that prove to me that Jesus was in Heaven before the word was. Not just as plan of God….Irene

Gene! Remember when you asked me about the Scriptures that you in the Old Test. well here they are, which you have ignored so far…. You said that if I would produce those Scriptures you might believe the truth about Jesus preexisting….Irene

September 23, 2010 at 3:45 am#217238

Blocked

Hi Jodi,

Thanks for coming! You made a good post, and I agree with some of it.

You asked:

Quote

HOW were those who Paul was speaking to suppose to be like minded with some spirit son deciding to come to earth and disguise himself as a human being?

Are we not also suppose to be “like-minded” with God? Are we not to always have in mind the things of God, not of men? Isn't that what Jesus told Peter? He said, “Get behind me Satan, for you have in mind the things of men, not the things of God.” Wasn't that in essence saying we need to be “like-minded” with God? If you don't agree, there are plenty more scriptures that convey the same idea.

Quote (Jodi Lee @ Sep. 22 2010,16:12)

Look, I completely understand your human logic here, and I have heard the same exact thoughts from Martian and Gene and Marty and barley. To me, it wouldn't matter whether Jesus pre-existed or not. I'm not trying to fit scriptures into my doctrine or my own personal wishes here. But I'm not about to claim that the way God decided to do things bears no “fruit” according to my tiny human brain either. I'm only trying to base what and how I believe around what the scriptures teach. I have no axe to grind here – it's not personal.

That being said, let's cut to the chase here instead of giving our OPINIONS of what thoughts Paul was trying to convey. The last line of Phil 2:7 says “and was made in the likeness of a HUMAN BEING.” The last Greek word is “anthropos”, which means “human being”, although it can also be translated as “man” or “men”. Just as if I said “man has existed on earth for 6000 years”, I really “human beings”. Are you with me so far?

The NIV translates that last part as “being made in human likeness.”

So we have a progression of events in 2:6-7,

1. Jesus was existing in the form/nature of God
2. Jesus didn't think of being equal to God, but instead
3. Emptied himself
4. Took on the form/nature of a slave
5. Was made in the likeness of a human being

You, like all the other “non-preexisters” I've discussed this with, seem to think Jesus was already a human being during #1. But if that is the case, what does #5 even mean? So the simple question that no one else seems to be able to answer is this:

How can Jesus (or anyone for that matter) who is already a human being, be made into the likeness of a human being?

peace and love,
mike

September 24, 2010 at 1:49 am#217294

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 23 2010,14:45)

Hi Jodi,

Thanks for coming! You made a good post, and I agree with some of it.

You asked:

Quote

HOW were those who Paul was speaking to suppose to be like minded with some spirit son deciding to come to earth and disguise himself as a human being?

Quote (Jodi Lee @ Sep. 22 2010,16:12)

The NIV translates that last part as “being made in human likeness.”

So we have a progression of events in 2:6-7,

How can Jesus (or anyone for that matter) who is already a human being, be made into the likeness of a human being?

peace and love,
mike

Good post Mike…..Irene

September 24, 2010 at 2:15 am#217295

Blocked

Thank you ma'am.

mike

September 24, 2010 at 4:30 pm#217347

Participant

Mike………….So in you teachings Jesus was not a human being then right , but was MORPHED (INTO) a HUMAN Right?. If so please show us this process of MORPHING and What Purpose it would Serve in the Plan and Will of GOD with Humanity. As Martian said Jesus is described as a SON OF MAN 95 times, but you seem to deny that. If he is SON of MAN then that is exactly what He is, but you believe He is a SON of a MORPHED Being of Some kind. Show Scripture to back up you claim

peace and love……………………..gene

September 26, 2010 at 6:25 pm#217787

Blocked

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 25 2010,03:30)

If so please show us this process of MORPHING and What Purpose it would Serve in the Plan and Will of GOD with Humanity.

Gene,

Please show God's purpose and plan for humanity by making the earth round. What was His plan for humanity by making avalances? How about volcanos and hurricanes and mosquitos?

You ask an assinine question Gene. You and Martian seem to have to fit the scriptures into your flawed human understandings of why God would do something the way He did.

In other words, if you can't make sense of it with your puny human logic, then we must twist the scriptures so they are no longer saying that thing that you cannot grasp with your flawed human understanding.

Is this how you think it should be? Should we “rewrite” God's inspired words to fit in with our puny understanding of life?

mike

September 26, 2010 at 6:40 pm#217791

Blocked

And Gene,

You ignore one very simple human logic. The Lord Jesus Christ is for me and Irene and Pierre the same exact example of how we should think and behave as he is to you and Martian.

Are you able to somehow follow Jesus more readily than we are because you make him nothing but a man in your mind? Are you and Martian better equipped to share with the poor, preach the good news, or worship God than we are because you think Jesus didn't pre-exist?

You think it somehow makes a difference between the way you follow Jesus and the way we do…..but it doesn't. We all have the same Lord. We all try our best to follow what he taught. Can you show me one single difference in the way you follow Jesus than the way we do?

Here's your mission: Give me one single example of something you do in your day to day life to follow Jesus' teachings that you could not do if he pre-existed. I'm talking about an action like giving to the poor, or resisting Satan's tempations…….something like that.

Gene, in what precise way can you follow Jesus better than I can by believing he didn't pre-exist?

mike

September 27, 2010 at 5:19 pm#217875

Participant

Mike…………You Give him advantages He did not have, You make him different then Us you destory his (exact) example to us of a fellow human being who is in (EVERY WAY EXACTLY LIKE WE ARE). You alter the very Plan and Purpose of GOD'S WORK in mankind , you do not truly think you can obtain to the true Full MEASURE and STATURE of CHRIST. If you did you would not be so incest with making him different then we are.

Mike it is not about me following Jesus better or worse then you can, its about how we relate with GOD the FATHERS Work in HUMANITY, which you corrupt by moving Jesus Away from HUMANITY, like the trinitarians and Gnostic's do. You do not only destory Gods Work in humanity but You destory Jesus work as a pure Human Being setting us a (exact) example of fellowship with GOD the Father. God the Father was not working with Preexisting beings , he was working with Mankind by and through a Man < JESUS.

Here is something to consider, “WHAT IS (MAN) THAT SO KIND TO HIM YOU SHOULD BE , FOR YOU HAVE MADE HIM LOWER THEN THE ANGLES BUT HAVE CROWNED HIM WITH GLORY AND HONOR, BUT WE DO NOT SEE MAN NOW CROWNED WITH GLORY AND HONOR , (BUT) WHAT DO WE SEE, WE (SEE) JESUS WHO WAS (MADE LOWER THEN THE ANGLE) CROWNED WITH GLORY AND HONOR. Now Jesus (JUST) Like Us was MADE LOWER the The Angles it say i see (NO) difference between Him and Us there do YOU?

peace and love……………………………..gene

September 28, 2010 at 3:03 am#217920

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 27 2010,05:40)

And Gene,

You ignore one very simple human logic. The Lord Jesus Christ is for me and Irene and Pierre the same exact example of how we should think and behave as he is to you and Martian.

Gene, in what precise way can you follow Jesus better than I can by believing he didn't pre-exist?

mike

Hi Mike,

Why should Gene and Martian call Jesus Lord?
if he is the same as the rest of us, do they call others Lord as well?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

September 28, 2010 at 3:06 am#217921

Blocked

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 28 2010,04:19)

Hi Gene,

Hebrews 2:9 NIV
9But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.

Now I could take that as “was in heaven as a spirit being, but was sent as a human for a while”.

You could take that as “was originally made as a human”.

It proves nothing for either one of us. But more importantly, it is yet another scripture that you tout as denying Jesus' pre-existence when it doesn't even come close to doing that.

Hebrews 2:14 NASB
Therefore, since the children share in flesh and blood, He Himself likewise also partook of the same, that through death He might render powerless him who had the power of death, that is, the devil,

Hebrews 2:17 NWT
17 Consequently he was obliged to become like his “brothers” in all respects, that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, in order to offer propitiatory sacrifice for the sins of the people. 18 For in that he himself has suffered when being put to the test, he is able to come to the aid of those who are being put to the test.

Can you see it Gene? Jesus had to “partake of the flesh and blood” so he could die as flesh and blood and thereby render death powerless over all who believe. He was “obliged” to become like us in order to understand the things we go through and the temptations of our flesh. He had to be tested in the flesh so he knew what we go through, and by knowing what we go through, he is better able to aid us who are being tested.

peace and love
mike

September 28, 2010 at 3:11 am#217925

Blocked

Quote (Ed J @ Sep. 28 2010,14:03)

Hi Mike,

Why should Gene and Martian call Jesus Lord?
if he is the same as the rest of us, do they call others Lord as well?

That's a good question Ed. I wonder how many “men” they call their “Lord”. Especially “men” who are exactly the same as they are.

Gene didn't answer my question, did he? I'd really like to know what teachings of Jesus that he follows now, but would not be able to follow if Jesus pre-existed.

peace and love,
mike

September 28, 2010 at 3:24 am#217929

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 28 2010,14:11)

Quote (Ed J @ Sep. 28 2010,14:03)

Hi Mike,

Why should Gene and Martian call Jesus Lord?
if he is the same as the rest of us, do they call others Lord as well?

That's a good question Ed. I wonder how many “men” they call their “Lord”. Especially “men” who are exactly the same as they are.

Gene didn't answer my question, did he? I'd really like to know what teachings of Jesus that he follows now, but would not be able to follow if Jesus pre-existed.

peace and love,
mike

Hi Mike,

Keep up the good work of always looking for agreement!

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

September 28, 2010 at 5:51 am#217948

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 28 2010,14:06)

[

Now I could take that as “was in heaven as a spirit being, but was sent as a human for a while”.

You could take that as “was originally made as a human”.

Mike………..You could take it like you do many different ways, However you are leaving off the obvious Point. the First part of the verse that say ” WHAT IS (MAN) THAT THOU SHOULD CONSIDER HIM, YOU HAVE (MADE) HIM, LOWER THEN THE ANGLES FOR THE TASTING OF DEATH, BUT HAVE CROWN HIM WITH GLORY AND HONOR. Then it says “BUT WE DO NOT (YET) SEE HIM (MAN) CROWN WITH GLORY AND HONOR, (BUT) what do we see , WE SEE JESUS, WHO WAS MADE LOWER THEN THE ANGLES (just like we are). NOW CROWNED WITH GLORY AND HONOR. Again the question remains where in this is there (ANY DIFFERENCE) in Jesus and US. It is obvious the complete context is comparing Jesus (EXACTLY) to US in every way. That is the point of what was being discussed there. The word “MADE” applies both us man and Jesus the son of man alike. Jesus is just the forerunner of Us, This scripture shows an equality we have with Jesus. But you preexistence eye can't even see that clear statement made there, so you continue to twist scriptures to conform to you dogmas. Of separating Jesus from our exact identity and likeness.

You say “you could have taken that as”, “was in heaven as a Spirit being”, but was sent as a human (for a while). Yes indeed you do take it that way in fact even though it is not stated that way and that is exactly what you do take it out of context to push you dogmas of preexistence not only with this scripture but others also. You can't even prove that Jesus is Now a Spirit being much less was before. In fact you can't even (PROVE) that there is any “SPIRIT BEINGS” in existence except God who is Spirit. Jesus said he is not a Spirit, but you say he is and was. Interesting more MYSTERY RELIGION teachings for us all to swallow right?

peace and love……………Gene

September 28, 2010 at 6:06 am#217949

Jodi Lee

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 23 2010,14:45)

Hi Jodi,

Thanks for coming! You made a good post, and I agree with some of it.

You asked:

Quote

HOW were those who Paul was speaking to suppose to be like minded with some spirit son deciding to come to earth and disguise himself as a human being?

Quote (Jodi Lee @ Sep. 22 2010,16:12)

The NIV translates that last part as “being made in human likeness.”

So we have a progression of events in 2:6-7,

How can Jesus (or anyone for that matter) who is already a human being, be made into the likeness of a human being?

peace and love,
mike

Hi Mike!!

Hebrews 2:14 Inasmuch then as the children have partaken of flesh and blood, He Himself likewise shared in the same, that through death He might destroy him who had the power of death, that is, the devil, 15 and release those who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage. 16 For indeed He does not give aid to angels, but He does give aid to the seed of Abraham. 17 Therefore, in all things He had to be made like His brethren, that He might be a merciful and faithful High Priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people. 18 For in that He Himself has suffered, being tempted, He is able to aid those who are tempted.

Who is HE? A pre-existent son or the Promised Messiah?

The promise to David was that God WOULD BE a Father to his seed, and that seed WOULD BE to Him as a son. This MAN would be the anointed…..called Messiah or Christ.

The Christ had to be made just like us flesh and blood and NOTHING else in order to be a propitiation for our sins and in order to be a proper High Priest.

Romans 5:18 Therefore, as through one man's offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man's righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life. 19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so also by one Man's obedience many will be made righteous.

4:15 For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin.

Phil 2:7 but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men.

Mike I believe what is meant is that our Messiah came to us in likeness of us, being able to be tempted, but he was not like us in the fact that he never gave into that temptation.

September 28, 2010 at 6:28 am#217954

Participant

Mike………..God did not say the seed of a morphed preexisting being in the women would bruise the head of the serpent did he?, but he simply said (HER) SEED “the seed of the women”, would bruise its head. God was not dealing with angels but with mankind and used a seed of MAN to deal with man not some morphed preexisting Angel or demigod of some kind that is no where mentioned in scriptures as preexisting his berth. Moses did not say a Morphed being would come like Him, But said the Lord would raise up a Prophet like Him from among there Brethern, showing his origins would come from them. Mike you have took the BIG “LIE” hook line and Sinker, and have Separated Jesus from you Identity as a fellow Human Being brought into existence through Berth by a Women into his preplanned and prophesied existence. A man who origins were from of old at the very time God said He would come from the seed of the women. He did not say from any other source as you suppose it say.

peace and love………………………gene

September 28, 2010 at 12:51 pm#217969