- This topic is empty.
- Posts
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 08 2010,14:34) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 07 2010,23:07) EDJ………..Your argument is with Jesus not Me it was He who Said He was the Root and Offspring of David not ME. In fact he said it twice in Revelations, so go there and deal with it there.
I don't think Ed is the one “arguing with Jesus”…..are you Ed? It seems to me the one arguing with Jesus is you Gene.It seems that Ed, like myself, believes Jesus when he says he is both the Root AND the Branch of David. It is YOU that only wants to believe the Branch part, and ignore the Root part for you own selfish reason of, “It doesn't make sense to me for God to have done it that way”.
mike
Hi Mike,Here is what “the Bible” documents as Jesus' REAL lineage…
25%; Mary's mother's linage was of the tribe of Levi. (Luke 1:5, 1:36)
25%: Mary's father's lineage was through Nathan(son of David). (Luke 3:23-31)
50%: Joseph was NOT Jesus' Father; The HolySpirit was! (Matt.1:18 / Matt.1:20 / Luke 1:35)50%: Joseph was NOT Jesus' Father; The HolySpirit was! (Matt.1:18 / Matt.1:20 / Luke 1:35)
Jesus in Luke 20:41-44 was referring to his Father having no male lineage!
This is the point Gene seems to be arguing against!Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH (Psalm 45:17)
יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 60:13-15)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgEDJ………..So Now we have a Jesus who is 50% man and 50% God Right. Funny Jesus said “FOR THOU ARE THE (ONLY) TRUE GOD. He did not say he was a Half GOD anywhere that i know of. Jesus was 100% Human and was (NOT) a Son of GOD no more then we are, Until he recieved the Holy Spirit at the Jordan river. (this day I have begotten you) not some past existence as Trinitarians and Preexistences would have us believe. I suppose you also believe Adam and Even were 100% Gods because they were not Born at all but created by GOD himself. Because GOD manipulates the DNA in a HUMAN does not make that Child a GOD no more then it made Adam and Eve, or Issac a GOD. The seed of GOD is His Spirit because GOD is Spirit he is not a man nor does He exist in a body of His own but live vicariously (IN) his creation by His Spirit. All other things in God's Creation Has Bodies, but he does not have a Body He is Pure Spirit and Jesus said a Spirit does (NOT) have Flesh and BONE as He Has. IMO
peace and love………………………..gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 09 2010,12:00) EDJ………..So Now we have a Jesus who is 50% man and 50% God Right. Funny Jesus said “FOR THOU ARE THE (ONLY) TRUE GOD. He did not say he was a Half GOD anywhere that i know of. Jesus was 100% Human and was (NOT) a Son of GOD no more then we are, Until he recieved the Holy Spirit at the Jordan river. (this day I have begotten you) not some past existence as Trinitarians and Preexistences would have us believe. I suppose you also believe Adam and Even were 100% Gods because they were not Born at all but created by GOD himself. Because GOD manipulates the DNA in a HUMAN does not make that Child a GOD no more then it made Adam and Eve, or Issac a GOD. The seed of GOD is His Spirit because GOD is Spirit he is not a man nor does He exist in a body of His own but live vicariously (IN) his creation by His Spirit. All other things in God's Creation Has Bodies, but he does not have a Body He is Pure Spirit and Jesus said a Spirit does (NOT) have Flesh and BONE as He Has. IMO peace and love………………………..gene
Hi Gene,What do you think God meant by saying Jesus would be called “mighty god” then? Isn't that God Himself saying Jesus is a “god”?
mike
Hey Gene! barley! Martian! Shimmer! Marty! Where are all of you guys? Isn't someone going to attempt to answer this point?
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 07 2010,15:42) Simply when He raised Lazarus from the dead He could have allowed People to think He did it, instead of GOD the Father.
Okay Gene,Let's say the raising of Lazarus IS the point in Jesus' life when he could have been “in the nature of God”.
After God raised Lazarus through Jesus and people thought of Jesus as having “the form of God”, in what sense was Jesus then “MADE IN THE LIKENESS OF A HUMAN BEING”?
Do you see it Gene? If he WAS a HUMAN BEING ALREADY, how is it that he “WAS MADE IN THE LIKENESS OF A HUMAN BEING”?
Please actually answer my question Gene. It basically asks how Jesus can be made into a human when he already was one?
It is a DIRECT question. Either give me a DIRECT answer, or admit that you can't.
mike
Mike……….. Mike here is your answer …..>Why complicate it Jesus was (BORN) 100% HUMAN , who is saying there is any different we were all (MADE) partakers of the Flesh Just as He was, what is you problem with that? We all Preexisted in the Plan and Will of GOD before the world ever begin. Why the big push to (SEPARATE) JESUS FROM OUR IDENTITY?
My point by the Lazarus thing was to show How Jesus did not let any think he was equaling himself to GOD and He was fully aware of the position He could have (fraudulently) allow Spectators to think by his Words He spoke before the resurrection of Lazarus and His Kine awareness of it. So He clarified it to GOD the Father , saying (THE REASON I SAID IT) this was keeping his relationship with the Father in a right perspective. Now Jesus was very careful not to steal Glory away from GOD, But you Trinitarians and preexistences Steal the Fathers glory all the time , by saying Jesus created everything, and deny him coming into existence at his berth here on earth as a HUMAN Being. This is the Spirit (intellect) of the Antichrists.
peace and love to you and yours………………………………..gene
Mike…………..You say “Lets say the raising of Lasuras is the Poit of Jesus life when He (could) have been in the (nature) of GOD.
You don't get it , Jesus recieved the Nature of GOD at the Jordan River BY the Holy Spirit that was In him. He had it every since that time. He was not born with It He (received that nature) as all who Have GOD Spirit in them have GOD (seed) or his nature in them. Why are you continually Separating Jesus From Us and our Likeness, that is the real question here. IMO
peace and love………………………..gene
Mike, I have not read this thread for some time and have no intention of doing so. I do not need to debate scripture with you. All I need do is remember that your methods are dishonest or shrouded in secrecy to see that I can no more trust your interpretations then I could trust a convicted child molester to run a day care.
HOWEVER —
I hope you will post constantly because if you are busy on here you cannot be having an effect on real Christianity. That is an good thing.
I will admit your posts are entertaining in a silly slapstick sort of way. I copied some of them and took them to some pastor friends of mine. They particularly laughed at your monkey analogy. One said it was unimaginable that anyone claiming the status of a Christian could write such dribble.
Enjoy your victory. It erminds me of when my boys were little and they play as if their toy guns were real. Kind of like the way you play with your doctrine as if it had any reality in it. LOL
Thanks for the entertainment.Okay Gene and Martian,
I guess the scriptures have won this debate and the truth prevails……Thanks and Glory be the the Only True God, Jehovah, and His Son, through whom he created the universe.
You guys cannot (and will not even try) to answer how if Jesus was already a human being while being considered “in the form/nature of God” he could then empty himself and be MADE IN THE LIKENESS OF A HUMAN BEING.
The only explanation is that Jesus existed before his flesh “in the form/nature of God”. He “emptied himself” of the glory and prestige of existing at the right hand of the Only True God Jehovah, and was made as a human being. At that time, the only begotten Son that the Father sent FROM heaven carried out his God's will perfectly. He took our sin upon himself and was sacrificed for us. Three days later, his God raised him back to life…..and back to the glory he had in his Father's presence before the creation of the world. The fact he pre-existed is why he is both the Root AND the Branch of David. And it is why all things came to be THROUGH (not “BY”) him. It is why he was in the beginning with God as the Word, but was made flesh. It is why nothing that has ever been made was made without him. It is why he can say he was before Abraham. It is why David, speaking through the holy spirit could call him “my Lord”.
And there's much more scripture that also supports his pre-existence. I hope you all will eventually take off the blinders. At the very least, I hope you will take a look back at these threads and read some of the lame “abstract” things you had to claim these particular scriptures meant in order to stick with your doctrine. Like “in his presence” didn't really mean Jesus himself was ” in God's presence”.
What else could it mean….and why? Why not just take it as it is written?Or how about “the thought of Jesus in God's head” is what “had glory before the world”?
Please re-read and think about the crazy things you had to claim. Think hard about them, then ask yourselves, “Why can't it just mean what it plainly says? Why CAN'T Jesus pre-exist and I still follow him and his God?”
peace and love,
mikeMike, though I agree with you on those verses, Im sort of on the side of what your saying and also on the side of what they are saying, but differently because I believe that PERHAPS the son spoken about was the Holy Spirit, (The word?….also called The Son) Im not denying what scripture say's, the Holy Spirit/Word/Son WAS there with God before all, all was created through and for him, but then was manifested in the man Jesus, and this man Jesus after being risen from the dead (acts) was begotten by God, given a position of authority and power, with the son, Jesus became the only begotten (taken up) son, as confusing as that sounds !
Just an idea of mine thats all, as I said, not something I would usually think about. But caused by my belief in Hermas,
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 10 2010,11:55) Okay Gene and Martian, I guess the scriptures have won this debate and the truth prevails……Thanks and Glory be the the Only True God, Jehovah, and His Son, through whom he created the universe.
You guys cannot (and will not even try) to answer how if Jesus was already a human being while being considered “in the form/nature of God” he could then empty himself and be MADE IN THE LIKENESS OF A HUMAN BEING.
The only explanation is that Jesus existed before his flesh “in the form/nature of God”. He “emptied himself” of the glory and prestige of existing at the right hand of the Only True God Jehovah, and was made as a human being. At that time, the only begotten Son that the Father sent FROM heaven carried out his God's will perfectly. He took our sin upon himself and was sacrificed for us. Three days later, his God raised him back to life…..and back to the glory he had in his Father's presence before the creation of the world. The fact he pre-existed is why he is both the Root AND the Branch of David. And it is why all things came to be THROUGH (not “BY”) him. It is why he was in the beginning with God as the Word, but was made flesh. It is why nothing that has ever been made was made without him. It is why he can say he was before Abraham. It is why David, speaking through the holy spirit could call him “my Lord”.
And there's much more scripture that also supports his pre-existence. I hope you all will eventually take off the blinders. At the very least, I hope you will take a look back at these threads and read some of the lame “abstract” things you had to claim these particular scriptures meant in order to stick with your doctrine. Like “in his presence” didn't really mean Jesus himself was ” in God's presence”.
What else could it mean….and why? Why not just take it as it is written?Or how about “the thought of Jesus in God's head” is what “had glory before the world”?
Please re-read and think about the crazy things you had to claim. Think hard about them, then ask yourselves, “Why can't it just mean what it plainly says? Why CAN'T Jesus pre-exist and I still follow him and his God?”
peace and love,
mike
Declare your victory. It is a very small thing on a forum. I know that if I ever want to believe that learning character of Jesus is like 3 year olds imitating monkeys, I will look you up. LOL at your anticsQuote (martian @ Sep. 11 2010,01:40) Declare your victory. It is a very small thing on a forum.
Hi Martian,Does this mean you now admit “preexistence” is FACT?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgMike……..What exactly is the FORM of GOD? Jesus did not exist in the FORM of GOD , but in the NATURE of GOD and Paul was not talking about a Pre-earth existence but when he was ON EARTH, He EXISTED ON EARTH With the NATURE of GOD, Just like All who have GOD'S Spirit in them Do.
I John 4:17……..> Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgement: BECAUSE AS (HE) IS, SO ARE WE (IN) THIS WORLD.
1 John 3:7…….little childern, let no man deceive you: he that does righteousness is righteous even as (HE) is righteous.
The nature of GOD is not unique to Jesus but all Saint have it (IN) them. (NOW). So if that Person were to die someone could say He existed with the Nature of GOD , but he did not try to make himself equal with GOD, (even though he existed with that nature) it is the same thing. But in no way was the person referring to a Pre- earth existence. Same as with Jesus also.
Mike the emptied himself was referring not to His the nature in him but to the Glory afforded by that Nature he could have used to draw attention to himself. AS i tried to show you by the Lazarus incident.
To say we have not answered you question is false Mike we certinally have.
peace and love………………….gene
Gene! John 17:5 states that Jesus had a glory with the Father before the world was and He is saying that He want to go back to that glory….. that is what John 17:5 is saying…. and He emptied Himself and became like a Servant and became a man….. so what glory is He now? To that He went back to…. John 1and Rev, 19:13-19 shows us also what He was and what He is and what He will come back as…..simple to me and I hope you will understand it too….Irene
Quote (martian @ Sep. 10 2010,06:49) Mike, I have not read this thread for some time and have no intention of doing so. I do not need to debate scripture with you. All I need do is remember that your methods are dishonest or shrouded in secrecy to see that I can no more trust your interpretations then I could trust a convicted child molester to run a day care.
HOWEVER —
I hope you will post constantly because if you are busy on here you cannot be having an effect on real Christianity. That is an good thing.
I will admit your posts are entertaining in a silly slapstick sort of way. I copied some of them and took them to some pastor friends of mine. They particularly laughed at your monkey analogy. One said it was unimaginable that anyone claiming the status of a Christian could write such dribble.
Enjoy your victory. It erminds me of when my boys were little and they play as if their toy guns were real. Kind of like the way you play with your doctrine as if it had any reality in it. LOL
Thanks for the entertainment.
martain! That is a horrible statement to make…… if I would be Mike I would send this post to a Moderator…..since He is one himself, MMMMMMM IreneQuote (martian @ Sep. 11 2010,01:40) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 10 2010,11:55) Okay Gene and Martian, I guess the scriptures have won this debate and the truth prevails……Thanks and Glory be the the Only True God, Jehovah, and His Son, through whom he created the universe.
You guys cannot (and will not even try) to answer how if Jesus was already a human being while being considered “in the form/nature of God” he could then empty himself and be MADE IN THE LIKENESS OF A HUMAN BEING.
The only explanation is that Jesus existed before his flesh “in the form/nature of God”. He “emptied himself” of the glory and prestige of existing at the right hand of the Only True God Jehovah, and was made as a human being. At that time, the only begotten Son that the Father sent FROM heaven carried out his God's will perfectly. He took our sin upon himself and was sacrificed for us. Three days later, his God raised him back to life…..and back to the glory he had in his Father's presence before the creation of the world. The fact he pre-existed is why he is both the Root AND the Branch of David. And it is why all things came to be THROUGH (not “BY”) him. It is why he was in the beginning with God as the Word, but was made flesh. It is why nothing that has ever been made was made without him. It is why he can say he was before Abraham. It is why David, speaking through the holy spirit could call him “my Lord”.
And there's much more scripture that also supports his pre-existence. I hope you all will eventually take off the blinders. At the very least, I hope you will take a look back at these threads and read some of the lame “abstract” things you had to claim these particular scriptures meant in order to stick with your doctrine. Like “in his presence” didn't really mean Jesus himself was ” in God's presence”.
What else could it mean….and why? Why not just take it as it is written?Or how about “the thought of Jesus in God's head” is what “had glory before the world”?
Please re-read and think about the crazy things you had to claim. Think hard about them, then ask yourselves, “Why can't it just mean what it plainly says? Why CAN'T Jesus pre-exist and I still follow him and his God?”
peace and love,
mike
Declare your victory. It is a very small thing on a forum. I know that if I ever want to believe that learning character of Jesus is like 3 year olds imitating monkeys, I will look you up. LOL at your antics
martain Why do you find it necessary to make a remark like that? Are you a Christian? You certainly don't sound like one….IreneQuote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 10 2010,08:45) Mike…………..You say “Lets say the raising of Lasuras is the Poit of Jesus life when He (could) have been in the (nature) of GOD. You don't get it , Jesus recieved the Nature of GOD at the Jordan River BY the Holy Spirit that was In him. He had it every since that time. He was not born with It He (received that nature) as all who Have GOD Spirit in them have GOD (seed) or his nature in them. Why are you continually Separating Jesus From Us and our Likeness, that is the real question here. IMO
peace and love………………………..gene
geneshow some scriptures for your claim,
Christ is the first born of ALL creation ,so he receive his nature directly from his father ,just like you received it from your father.
Pierre
now if you can explain what is the nature of your father you may be can explain Christ nature what is God image.
Quote (martian @ Sep. 11 2010,01:40) Jesus is like 3 year olds imitating monkeys…
Watch this movie trailer from the time-line starting at 1:03 to 1:10!Enjoy!
Terricca………….I did show them you in ability to read it is your problem not ours. Mike read and understood the scriptures i posted. And I see you still are doing what YOUR Farther Does to “accuse the brethren”. That seem to fit you perfectly it appears.
gene
Seems Mike has his buddies at work again. I blasted Mike's interpretation principles and he complained and got me warned. Poor baby.
Quote (Baker @ Sep. 11 2010,05:53) Quote (martian @ Sep. 11 2010,01:40) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 10 2010,11:55) Okay Gene and Martian, I guess the scriptures have won this debate and the truth prevails……Thanks and Glory be the the Only True God, Jehovah, and His Son, through whom he created the universe.
You guys cannot (and will not even try) to answer how if Jesus was already a human being while being considered “in the form/nature of God” he could then empty himself and be MADE IN THE LIKENESS OF A HUMAN BEING.
The only explanation is that Jesus existed before his flesh “in the form/nature of God”. He “emptied himself” of the glory and prestige of existing at the right hand of the Only True God Jehovah, and was made as a human being. At that time, the only begotten Son that the Father sent FROM heaven carried out his God's will perfectly. He took our sin upon himself and was sacrificed for us. Three days later, his God raised him back to life…..and back to the glory he had in his Father's presence before the creation of the world. The fact he pre-existed is why he is both the Root AND the Branch of David. And it is why all things came to be THROUGH (not “BY”) him. It is why he was in the beginning with God as the Word, but was made flesh. It is why nothing that has ever been made was made without him. It is why he can say he was before Abraham. It is why David, speaking through the holy spirit could call him “my Lord”.
And there's much more scripture that also supports his pre-existence. I hope you all will eventually take off the blinders. At the very least, I hope you will take a look back at these threads and read some of the lame “abstract” things you had to claim these particular scriptures meant in order to stick with your doctrine. Like “in his presence” didn't really mean Jesus himself was ” in God's presence”.
What else could it mean….and why? Why not just take it as it is written?Or how about “the thought of Jesus in God's head” is what “had glory before the world”?
Please re-read and think about the crazy things you had to claim. Think hard about them, then ask yourselves, “Why can't it just mean what it plainly says? Why CAN'T Jesus pre-exist and I still follow him and his God?”
peace and love,
mike
Declare your victory. It is a very small thing on a forum. I know that if I ever want to believe that learning character of Jesus is like 3 year olds imitating monkeys, I will look you up. LOL at your antics
martain Why do you find it necessary to make a remark like that? Are you a Christian? You certainly don't sound like one….Irene
Because that is exactly what Mike did. When we were discussing learning the character of Christ he compared it to three year olds learning to climb trees like monkeys. Those were his original words. Perhaps you should ask Mike if he is a Christian with comments like that.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
