Phillipians 2

[Ed J]

Quote (davidbfun @ Sep. 03 2010,12:48)

Jesus doesn't call the Holy Spirit “Father” because the Holy Spirit is feminine.  He said he would send us the Comforter, Counselor, Helper and She would dwell in us. The Holy Spirit has as one of her traits/essences, YHWH's Spirit.  Thus when you receive the Holy Spirit you receive YHWH. And Jesus who received the Holy Spirit at his baptism, which was separate from the Father, sends us this same Spirit so all are one together in unity. Mat 3:16 After being baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove and lighting on Him,   and behold, a voice out of the heavens said, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well-pleased.” The Spirit in Jesus is not the person (Father) in Heaven speaking. Spirit Elohim (feminine) is a separate “person” Gen 1:2 from YHWH Elohim (masculine) in Gen 2:4. Both of them comprise Elohim (God) of Gen 1:1. We know that there are these two essences because of Gen 1:27. We read that Jesus emptied his Godly form to take on a humanly form.  We also see that God sent His son to be our Salvation..by dying on the cross.

Hi David,

    HolySpirit is “GOD: The Father” of Jesus Christ! (Click Here)

What does the combination of Eph.4:6 combined with Matt.1:18, Matt.1:20 and Luke 1:35 say to you?
Matt.1:18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused
to Joseph, before they came (consummated) together, she was found with child of the HolySpirit.
Matt.1:20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto
him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife:
for that which is conceived in her is of the HolySpirit. (Son of the HolySpirit = Son of God)
Luke 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The HolySpirit shall come upon
thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that
holy thing(Jesus) which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

   Jesus doesn't (according to David) call the “HolySpirit” Father?

Luke 2:49 And he said unto them, How is it that ye sought me?
wist ye not that I must be about my Father's business?

Luke 10:22 All things are delivered to me of my Father:
and no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father; and who
the Father is, but the Son, and he to whom the Son will reveal him.

John 5:17 But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work.

Luke 22:29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;

Luke 24:49 And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye
in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.

John 6:65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come
unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

John 8:28 Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man,
then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself(Amos 3:7);
but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me,
he will keep my words: and my Father will love him,
and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. (Click Here)

Matt.25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand,
Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom
prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH (Psalm 45:17)
יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā  hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 60:13-15)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[GeneBalthrop]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 03 2010,13:33)

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 03 2010,00:58) Mike………Just as well as it (COULD) mean the other meanings offered, SO YOU FORCE THE TEXT TO FIT YOUR DESIRED MEANINGS. Hi Gene, Good!  So now we both know that it COULD mean your choice or mine, right?  Yet you say if I choose my way, I am “forcing the scriptures”.  I could say the same thing about you then, couldn't I? Okay, the “beginning” word was just to get you primed anyway.  Here's the good part……..ready? KJV But made himself of no reputation (5656) and took upon him (5631) the form of a servant and was made (5637) in the likeness of men Okay Gene, now let's just deal with the last part that I bolded. AND WAS MADE: Strong #1096, which is the word “ginomai” which means: 1096 ginomai to cause to be (“gen”-erate)   to become (come into being) I'll tell you also that “ginomai” is the root word for “monogenes”, which we all know means “only begotten”. IN: Strong #1722 which is the word “en” which you already know means “in” in this context, right? THE LIKENESS: Strong #3666 which is the word “homoioma” which means: homoioma 1) that which has been made after the likeness of something OF MEN: Strong #444 which is the word “anthropos” which means: anthropos 1) a human being, whether male or female So let's put the bolded word defintions all together to form the last 11 words of the sentence. AND CAME INTO BEING IN THE LIKENESS OF A HUMAN BEING There's the Greek words and the Strong #'s for them and the definitions of what they mean, Gene.  Go to town, brother.  Research it.  See what you come up with, because all together it says that Jesus WAS in the form of God, but emptied himself and BECAME in the likeness of a HUMAN BEING. ps….Please just answer to the info in the post Gene.  You don't need to add in the two or three paragraphs about how I might as well become a trinitarian and about your wishes for Jesus to be just like you.  JUST ANSWER THE INFO IN THE POST DIRECTLY, PLEASE. peace and love, mikeNo

Mike……….No you can't say (I) am forcing the text at all that is what you are doing, i simply say that it goes against the Old Testament that say GOD (ALONE) and (BY HIMSELF) created everything. I also brought out to you where the word was translated as (IN) in all of the many other Places in Col except the one Place where is somehow is translated as (BY) now anyone would think that strange would they not. It is obvious there is translation discrepancy there. So I said to you how can you then use it a a (PROOF) text.

Mike the word (MONO) means (ONE) (Genes) means (BEGINNING) . Jesus had his beginning in the human race he was a mono-genes. One who had his beginning from humanity not the only human. He was mono because he was the one who began as a human being who was the (first) Son of GOD from the human race. In that sense He was MONO-GENES, first One from Mankind, begotten into the Family of GOD, at that time. The (first ) born into the kingdom of GOD of (MANY) brothers.

Mike…> Ok lets deal with the (LAST) part. So he was made in the likeness of Men. Tell us this are you made in the likeness of Men also?. If not please tell us what likeness you are of them.

Mike you haven't even began to deal with scriptures that show where you are wrong yet , why don't you try dealing with some of them for awhile. Quitting scripture that has words (PLAINLY) Mistranslated as i have (clearly) shown you , by Trinitarians and Preexistences forcing their indoctrinations they have been brainwashed with to believe, which is full of contradictions and flaws is hardly (PROOF) , just conjectures IMO,

Mike you keep say we are not answering you points but that is false we are , you just are not accepting the answers, but to say were not answering them is False. IMO

peace and love………………………gene

[Lightenup]

Here is an interesting page written on this subject from the mind of Saint Chrysostom:

Quote

Arius confesses indeed the Son, but only in word; he says that He is a creature, and much inferior to the Father. And others say that He has not a soul. Seest thou the chariots standing? See then their fall, how he overthrows them all together, and with a single stroke. How? “Have the same mind in you,” he says, “which was in Christ Jesus, who being in the form of God, counted it not a prize to be on an equality with God.” And Paul of Samosata has fallen, and Marcellus, and Sabellius. For he says, “Being in the form of God.” If “in the form” how sayest thou, O wicked one, that He took His origin from Mary, and was not before? and how dost thou say that He was an energy? For it is written, “The form of God took the form of a servant.” “The form of a servant,” is it the energy of a servant, or the nature of a servant? By all means, I fancy, the nature of a servant. Thus too the form of God, is the nature of God, and therefore not an energy. Behold also Marcellus of Galatia, Sophronius and Photinus have fallen. Behold Sabellius too. It is written, “He counted it not a prize to be on an equality with God.” Now equality is not predicated, where there is but one person, for that which is equal hath somewhat to which it is equal. Seest thou not the substance of two Persons, and not empty names without things? Hearest thou not the eternal pre-existence of the Only-begotten? Lastly, What shall we say against Arius, who asserts the Son is of a different substance? Tell me now, what means, “He took the form of a servant”? It means, He became man. Wherefore “being in the form of God,” He was God. For one “form” and another “form” is named; if the one be true, the other is also.

from: http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf113.iv.iii.vii.html

[JustAskin]

DBf,
Never miss a chance to spout your 'God is a chick' thing, eh. And you want to dialogue in a PM with me. Drop this nonesense, talk sense, then I will dialogue with you.

But, just one question. If the Holy Spirit is a woman, then didn't she then have a Lesbian relationship with Mary. How do two women create a child (two parts if the same question)

[Baker]

Quote (JustAskin @ July 23 2010,11:09)

Mike, First DEFINE your understanding of what “the FORM OF GOD” is. This is the crux of the matter for some. Some have substituted “Nature” for “Form”. Are you allowing this?

If “FORM”, (SPIRIT) is not the nature of God, then what do you think it is? his shape?

Georg

[JustAskin]

George,

Oh boy, …oh man…

Form is shape, containment, this, in short, is Spirit.

Nature is Characteristics, attitude, tendences, feelings, desires, wishes, outlook, etc.

Jesus was indeed in 'the form of God', yes, a Spirit.

Was he the same Nature as God, yes, but without personal authority. The same nature by way of outlook, desire, wishes, feelings…but sustained only by his Father, YHVH.

Many of the other angels also had this nature and all angels are in the form of God, spirits.

Jesus was the one found to be 'most like God', righteous, loving truth ad hating iniquities, implying that many angels were not wholly righteous, and indeed, could not be wholly righteous if they were pursuded by Satan, the most unrighteous, to rebel against God.

In order to seek their own untruthful truth, many swap and change the terms, 'Nature' and 'Form' to fit their arguments at that point causing unwary readers to stray into confusion and muddied waters.

'Auditor Caveo'…'listener beware!'

JustAskin is not such a one. JustAskin can see through muddy waters because he he is not looking with fleshly eyes but with Spiritual infraRed. Muddy the waters as much as one likes, it makes no difference, just wasted energy and making that one into a Satan and Devil.

[JustAskin]

George,
Ask yourself some simple questions…
A car.
What is it's Form?
What is it's Nature?
What is it's Form, different from it's Nature?

A Horse, any animal,
What is it's Form?
What is it's Nature?

Man,
What is his Form?
What is his Nature?

Your image in a mirror,
What is it's form (Reflected and refracted light)
What is it's Nature? (Energy force of different intensity, hue and wavelength in the visible light Spectrum (colours), etc)

[mikeboll64]

Quote (JustAskin @ Sep. 04 2010,21:11)

But, just one question. If the Holy Spirit is a woman, then didn't she then have a Lesbian relationship with Mary. How do two women create a child (two parts if the same question)

Hi JA,

Absolutely brilliant! I'm STILL laughing.

And not only was it funny, but a complete shut down of the “holy spirit is a chick” claim.

What say you David?

mike

[mikeboll64]

Thank you again Gene,

I'm glad you are at least attempting to DIRECTLY answer my points……thank you.

You said:

Quote

Mike…> Ok lets deal with the (LAST) part. So he was made in the likeness of Men. Tell us this are you made in the likeness of Men also?. If not please tell us what likeness you are of them.

Yes Gene, I WAS made in the likeness of a human being (let's not forget it doesn't say “man”, but “human being”.)

Now pay close attention here……..I WASN'T ever said to be “in the form of God”, and then “emptied myself”, and THEN “was MADE IN THE LIKENESS OF A HUMAN BEING“.

Do you understand that?  You claim that “existing in the form of God” applies to when he was ALREADY A HUMAN BEING.  If he was ALREADY A HUMAN BEING, then how in the world could he be “MADE IN THE LIKENESS OF A HUMAN BEING”?

mike

[GeneBalthrop]

MIke ………So what is exactly the “FORM” of GOD, please describe that to us if you can. Also please Look up the word (FORM) My Greek linear as i recall has (NATURE) which seems to fit the text better. Another question that needs to be answered is (Existing) was Paul talking about a Prior earthly existence or and earthly existence, both can applied as existing , but the rest of the context shows Paul was talking about his earthly existence. So to assume more is only a assumption and a forcing of the text on you part IMO.

Mike trying to play word games with Son of Man or Human being is stupid in my opinion, so i will not even endeavor to answer you on that.

peace and love…………………..gene

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 06 2010,04:50)

MIke ………So what is exactly the “FORM” of GOD, please describe that to us if you can.

I understand “form of God” to mean Jesus was a powerful spirit being.

Gene:

Quote

Also please Look up the word (FORM) My Greek linear as i recall  has (NATURE) which seems to fit the text better.

I don't see the difference, but here's what Strong's says:

3444. morphe mor-fay'
perhaps from the base of 3313 (through the idea of adjustment of parts); shape; figuratively, nature:–form.

Whether he was in the “form” or “nature” of God doesn't seem to make a difference to me.  What matters is he was said to be in one state of being, then was made to be in another state of being.

Gene:

Quote

Another question that needs to be answered is (Existing) was Paul talking about a Prior earthly existence or and earthly existence, both can applied as existing , but the rest of the context shows Paul was talking about his earthly existence. So to assume more is only a assumption and a forcing of the text on you part IMO.

So again it is I, not you, who is “forcing the text”?  It clearly states Jesus was in one form, and was made to be in another.  But this is how you and Martian and barley read it:

Who, being in the form of God – which is the prestigious postition his followers afforded him, emptied himself of that prestigious postition and instead let them know that he didn't come to be their “God”, but to serve them and so took on the form of a servant…….(so far, so good)

and was MADE IN THE LIKENESS OF A HUMAN BEING.

This last part is what makes YOUR understanding of what this passage says unbelievable Gene.  Do you get it?  If he WAS ALREADY a human being when he was afforded the “prestigious postition” of being in “the form of God”, then it wouldn't say he was “MADE IN THE LIKENESS OF A HUMAN BEING”, would it?

Gene:

Quote

Mike trying to play word games with Son of Man or Human being is stupid in my opinion, so i will not even endeavor to answer you on that.

Gene, do you realize the power of that statement you just made?  It says, “I, Gene, have decided that what the actual Greek word says does not fit into my doctrine – but in fact DISPROVES my doctrine – so I have opted to ignore what the scripture actually says in favor of my own doctrine.”

The words say he was “MADE IN THE LIKENESS OF A HUMAN BEING” Gene.  If you and your buddies cannot explain those scriptural words away, then shouldn't you change your personal beliefs in light of scriptural evidence you weren't previously aware of?

mike

[GeneBalthrop]

Mike…………So was i made in the likeness of a Human Being , that has nothing to do with any thing, The word FORM does it is NATURE not a FORM of any being. You can;t even produce any Scripture that show a (FORM) of GOD in a literial sense, if you can produce it. Another thing Paul was not talking about a (PRE earth) existence of Jesus but HIS (Earthly) existences , Jesus had while on earth the (NATURE) of GOD , he was filled with the HOLY Spirit of GOD He recieve at the Jordan river, He had it without measure we are told. But that has nothing to do with any pre-earth existence at all. You are forcing the text Mike in fact Pauls whole point had nothing to do with any pre- earth existence at all. can't you even see that by the very context ?

peace and love…………………………….gene

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 07 2010,02:53)

Paul was not talking about a (PRE earth) existence of Jesus but HIS (Earthly) existences , Jesus had while on earth the (NATURE) of GOD , he was filled with the HOLY Spirit of GOD He recieve at the Jordan river, He had it without measure we are told.

Very good Gene…….now all you have to do is explain how, if he was ALREADY A HUMAN BEING when he had “the nature of God”, he emptied himself and was made in the likeness of a HUMAN BEING.

Can you do that for me?  How about your brethren…..can any of them solve this riddle?

mike

[GeneBalthrop]

Mike………….You are still failing to understand what time period Paul was talking about was it Before His earthly existence or Before that . The way I read it Paul's was talking about his (earthly) existence, how he existed here on earth. Show us you proof Paul's was talking about his prior earth existence. Jesus Had the Nature of GOD while He was on Earth and Paul's was simply saying He did not try to be equal with GOD even through He had GOD'S Nature (IN) HIM. The actual Greek reads He did not thing to (ROB) GOD by trying to makes himself equal to Him. He would have been robbing GOD of His Glory Had he tried to present himself as an equal . He could have stoled the Glory by saying He was the one himself healing people instead of GOD the Father and would have stole or robbed God of Glory as Moses Did at the waters of Mareba. But Jesus knew he was a human being and as a Human humbled himself before GOD even to the point of Death.

You still miss the overall Plan and Purpose of GOD with regards to the HUMAN RACE AND HIS PERFECTING US JUST AS HE DID JESUS.
In fact i have notice both Trinitarians and Preexistences never want to discuss Jesus learning OBEDIENCE to GOD BY the Things He Suffered, why is that Mike? Is that because it might work to destory you preexistence dogmas.? I mean why would a Preexistent Perfect “assistant” creator of all thing need to (LEARN) anything right.

peace and love…………………….gene

[GeneBalthrop]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 07 2010,11:57)

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 07 2010,02:53) Paul was not talking about a (PRE earth) existence of Jesus but HIS (Earthly) existences , Jesus had while on earth the (NATURE) of GOD , he was filled with the HOLY Spirit of GOD He recieve at the Jordan river, He had it without measure we are told. Very good Gene…….now all you have to do is explain how, if he was ALREADY A HUMAN BEING when he had “the nature of God”, he emptied himself and was made in the likeness of a HUMAN BEING. Can you do that for me?  How about your brethren…..can any of them solve this riddle? mike

Mike……….What Jesus (EMPTIED) HIMSELF OF WAS THE DESIRE TO TO TRY TO BE EQUAL WITH GOD. How could he be equal with God would be a good question, Simply when He raised Lazarus from the dead He could have allowed People to think He did it, instead of GOD the Father. Lets look at this as an example.

NOW LOOK Closely and you may get the point OK>

John 11:40…….> Jesus says unto her, Said (I) not unto you. that if you would believe, thous shouldest see the glory if GOD?

Now notice carefully this

John 11:42, And (I) knew that you hear me always: (now notice) BUT( BECAUS) OF THE PEOPLE WHICH STAND BY I SAID (IT), that they may believe that you have sent me.

Jesus said what (THAT YOU MAY SEE THE GLORY OF GOD) that is what and now Jesus in showing God his reason for saying that , (why), because God Could have taken that as Jesus trying to Show Himself as a GOD and Let the people just assume when he said they would see the glory of God that He was the GOD He was talking about. So Jesus clarified it to the Father.

God did many thing through Jesus on earth as he did through Moses and other Prophets and can do through anyone he choses to. But to steal Glory and apply it to ones self makes that person a thief. Jesus understood that and never let it happen He alway gave GOD the Father the Credit for everything God did. So he did not try to rob GOD by making himself equal to Him. Hope you understood this.

Peace and love to you and yours………………..gene

[Ed J]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 07 2010,15:42)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 07 2010,11:57) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 07 2010,02:53) Paul was not talking about a (PRE earth) existence of Jesus but HIS (Earthly) existences , Jesus had while on earth the (NATURE) of GOD , he was filled with the HOLY Spirit of GOD He recieve at the Jordan river, He had it without measure we are told. Very good Gene…….now all you have to do is explain how, if he was ALREADY A HUMAN BEING when he had “the nature of God”, he emptied himself and was made in the likeness of a HUMAN BEING. Can you do that for me?  How about your brethren…..can any of them solve this riddle? mike Mike……….What Jesus (EMPTIED) HIMSELF OF WAS THE DESIRE TO TO TRY TO BE EQUAL WITH GOD. How could he be equal with God would be a good question, Simply when He raised Lazarus from the dead He could have allowed People to think He did it, instead of GOD the Father. Lets look at this as an example. NOW LOOK Closely and you may get the point OK> John 11:40…….> Jesus says unto her, Said (I) not unto you. that if you would believe, thous shouldest see the glory if GOD? Now notice carefully this John 11:42, And (I) knew that you hear me always: (now notice) BUT( BECAUS) OF THE PEOPLE WHICH STAND BY I SAID (IT), that they may believe that you have sent me. Jesus said what (THAT YOU MAY SEE THE GLORY OF GOD) that is what and now Jesus in showing God his reason for saying that , (why),  because God Could have taken that as Jesus trying to Show Himself as a GOD and Let the people just assume when he said they would see the glory of God that He was the GOD He was talking about. So Jesus clarified it to the Father. God did many thing through Jesus on earth as he did through Moses and other Prophets and can do through anyone he choses to. But to steal Glory and apply it to ones self makes that person a thief. Jesus understood that and never let it happen He alway gave GOD the Father the Credit for everything God did. So he did not try to rob GOD by making himself equal to Him. Hope you understood this. Peace and love to you and yours………………..gene

Hi Gene,

                      Christ is the “Glory” of God!
                          Glory(77) = Christ(77)

John 17:5: And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self
with the glory which I(Christ) had with thee before the world was.

Luke 20:41-44 And he said unto them, How say(Gene and others) 'they' that Christ is David's son?
And David himself saith in the book of Psalms, The LORD (יהוה) said unto my Lord (יהשוע),
Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool. David therefore
calleth him(Christ) Lord, how is he(Christ) then his(David's) son?

Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH (Psalm 45:17)
יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā  hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 60:13-15)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[GeneBalthrop]

EDJ………..Your argument is with Jesus not Me it was He who Said He was the Root and Offspring of David not ME. In fact he said it twice in Revelations, so go there and deal with it there.

If you will notice Jessu never said He was (NOT) a Son of DAVID now that you have added, Jesus ask (HOW) is He Davids Son.

If you can understand this the Glory Jesus had with the Father was a Foreordained Glory of Being the Firstborn HUMAN into the Kingdom of GOD and attaining the resurrection from the dead. Jesus did (NOT) Have that glory until he achieved it . But as clearly explained by Martian the Hebrews counted the word of GOD as if it already happened even though it hadn't occurred yet. Jesus' glory was assured Him from the very beginning of the world, it was all in the Plan of GOD. That is the glory Jesus was talking about , not a (PAST) Glory he had already actually attained to in a past life as some kind of super being as you and preexistences suppose.

peace and love………………………………..gene

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 07 2010,15:42)

Simply when He raised Lazarus from the dead He could have allowed People to think He did it, instead of GOD the Father.

Okay Gene,

Let's say the raising of Lazarus IS the point in Jesus' life when he could have been “in the nature of God”.

After God raised Lazarus through Jesus and people thought of Jesus as having “the form of God”, in what sense was Jesus then “MADE IN THE LIKENESS OF A HUMAN BEING”?

Do you see it Gene?  If he WAS a HUMAN BEING ALREADY, how is it that he “WAS MADE IN THE LIKENESS OF A HUMAN BEING”?

John 11:42 (New International Version)
42I knew that you always hear me, but I said this for the benefit of the people standing here, that they may believe that you sent me.”

Gene:

Quote

Jesus said what (THAT YOU MAY SEE THE GLORY OF GOD) that is what and now Jesus in showing God his reason for saying that , (why),  because God Could have taken that as Jesus trying to Show Himself as a GOD and Let the people just assume when he said they would see the glory of God that He was the GOD He was talking about. So Jesus clarified it to the Father.

Gene, the Father knows every thought everyone thinks.  How can you say Jesus had to say that so the Father knew he wasn't trying to steal the Father's thunder?  The Father would have known Jesus' thoughts whether or not Jesus said it aloud.  Besides, the scripture clearly says Jesus said it aloud for the benefit of the people there, not God.  

I think sometimes you don't really get the gist of the scriptures Gene.  I think this is the case with pre-existence.

Please actually answer my question Gene.  It basically asks how Jesus can be made into a human when he already was one?

It is a DIRECT question.  Either give me a DIRECT answer, or admit that you can't.

mike

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 07 2010,23:07)

EDJ………..Your argument is with Jesus not Me it was He who Said He was the Root and Offspring of David not ME. In fact he said it twice in Revelations, so go there and deal with it there.

I don't think Ed is the one “arguing with Jesus”…..are you Ed?  It seems to me the one arguing with Jesus is you Gene.

It seems that Ed, like myself, believes Jesus when he says he is both the Root AND the Branch of David.  It is YOU that only wants to believe the Branch part, and ignore the Root part for you own selfish reason of, “It doesn't make sense to me for God to have done it that way”.

mike

[Ed J]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 07 2010,23:07)

EDJ………..Your argument is with Jesus not Me it was He who Said He was the Root and Offspring of David not ME. In fact he said it twice in Revelations, so go there and deal with it there. If you will notice Jessu never said He was (NOT) a Son of DAVID now that you have added, Jesus ask (HOW) is He Davids Son. If you can understand this the Glory Jesus had with the Father was a Foreordained Glory of Being the Firstborn HUMAN into the Kingdom of GOD and attaining the resurrection from the dead. Jesus did (NOT) Have that glory until he achieved it . But as clearly explained by Martian the Hebrews counted the word of GOD as if it already happened even though it hadn't occurred yet. Jesus' glory was assured Him from the very beginning of the world, it was all in the Plan of GOD. That is the glory Jesus was talking about , not a (PAST) Glory he had already actually attained to in a past life as some kind of super being as you and preexistences suppose. peace and love………………………………..gene

HI Gene,

Are 'you' denying that Jesus is the one who said what Luke 20:41-44 documents?
This is what the bible says! Is this what your “Free Will” chooses to argue against?

“Bible Truth”: Jesus lineage is clearly written in “The Bible”;
why would 'you' put the systems of religion above Bible Truth?
The systems of religion and traditions of men do communicate…
distortions of truth, confusion of mind, and distractions of spirit.

50% “Son of Man” = “Son of Mary” (Matt.1:18 / Matt:1:20 / Mark 6:3 / Luke 1:35)
50% “Son of God” = “Son of The HolySpirit” (Matt. 1:18 / Matt. 1:20 / Luke 1:35)

What does the combination of Eph.4:6 combined with Matt.1:18, Matt.1:20 and Luke 1:35 say to you?
Matt.1:18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused
to Joseph, before they came (consummated) together, she was found with child of the HolySpirit.
Matt.1:20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto
him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife:
for that which is conceived in her is of the HolySpirit. (Son of the HolySpirit = Son of God)
Luke 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The HolySpirit shall come upon
thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that
holy thing(Jesus) which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

Can you reconcile these two Scriptures together, I can![/color]
John 5:31 If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true.
Jn.8:14 …Though I bear record of myself, yet my record is true…

John 5:37 is therefore fulfilled today in your reading of this Post! (Rev.21:2-3)

Luke 10:30-37 will help you understand who [יהשוע המשיח] YÄ-shü-ă hä-Mäh-shē-äkh was! (John 8:14)
This is an exegetical parable about [יהשוע המשיח] and “His neighbor” [יהוה האלהים]! (John 5:37)

Luke 10:30-37 And Jesus answering said, A certain man (Jesus) went down from Jerusalem to Jericho,
and fell among thieves, which stripped him of his raiment, and wounded him, and departed, leaving him half dead.
And by chance there came down a certain priest that way: and when he saw him, he passed by on the other side.
And likewise a Levite, when he was at the place, came and looked on him, and passed by on the other side.
But a certain Samaritan, as he journeyed, came where he was: and when he saw him, he had compassion on him,
And went to him, and bound up his wounds, pouring in oil and wine, and set him on his own beast, and brought him
to an inn, and took care of him. And on the morrow when he departed, he took out two pence, and gave them to
the host, and said unto him, Take care of him; and whatsoever thou spendest more, when I come again, I will
repay thee. Which now of these three, thinkest thou, was neighbour unto him that fell among the thieves?
And he said, He that shewed mercy on him. Then said Jesus unto him, Go, and do thou likewise.

Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH (Psalm 45:17)
יהוה האלהים(JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā  hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (Isaiah 49:16 / Isaiah 60:14)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

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