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Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 05 2007,18:09) Hi Not3,
You mean God played midwife?
No of course God didn't deliver the baby Jesus, he Fathered the baby.Did all of your children exist before you fathered them, Nick? Why should Jesus be any different?
Why would God want his Fatherhood to be any different from yours? He wanted a legitimate Son. Not a re-incarnation of something already existing.Nick, I've been thinking about your theology quite a bit. It's interesting that you are the only one I've talked to in 4 years that doesn't believe the Trinity but believes in a preexistence and incarnation (of sorts). I'm not one for following numbers or crowds, but it is interesting that your beliefs are unique. I guess that is why I have tried so hard to follow them.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 06 2007,06:03) Midwives bring children into the world as do mothers.
I would say this is a somewhat sexist remark.Fathers also bring their children into the world.
Your remark is almost like saying, “It's womens work to cook the meal and a man's job to provide the meal.” But who “brings forth” the meal? The man who provided the means, or the women who brought it forth and put it on the table?”
Hi Not3,
The firstborn monogenes Son of God was sent into the world.
He is ever above all other sons with glory of his own.
Now greater yet, one with God eternally .
We follow him.You are not correct.
t8 shares my views on this and it would not matter if none did as truth matters more.Kiss the Son.
Quote (Not3in1 @ June 06 2007,06:13) Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 06 2007,06:03) Midwives bring children into the world as do mothers.
I would say this is a somewhat sexist remark.Fathers also bring their children into the world.
Your remark is almost like saying, “It's womens work to cook the meal and a man's job to provide the meal.” But who “brings forth” the meal? The man who provided the means, or the women who brought it forth and put it on the table?”
Hi Not3,
Have you never met a male midwife?
Fathers beget but do not bring their children into the world.Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 06 2007,06:14) You are not correct.
t8 shares my views on this and it would not matter if none did as truth matters more.
Well, I'm sure that is why you are friends and why you both are responsible for the success of this site. But it doesn't make your belief truth. Because there are only two of you that belief it, it makes it unique. God's truth isn't meant to be unique and exclusive – like a club of two. No disrespect meant, of course. I enjoy chatting with you very much on this subject and I've learned a lot. I'm just saying that your view is hard to follow in scripture; at least it is for me. I'm still trying though….Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 06 2007,06:15) Fathers beget but do not bring their children into the world.
Your being silly now, Nick. What does “bring into the world” mean to you? The actual DELIVERY of the child? It can mean more than that, of course. To bring into existence is the work of both male and femal. I believe this is what the scriptures are telling us. They are not referring to the actual birthing process of delivery.Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 06 2007,06:20) Hi not3,
I love being proven wrong as my search is for truth.
What does firstborn mean to you?
Ah…..I smell a trap coming on!
See, I know you a little now, don't I? We are also considered to be “firstfruits” after Jesus…..and yet we have not followed him in resurrection YET. I know you don't like this, but some language is meant to be prophetic. You can't escape the fact that there are different uses of language employed throughout the OT and the NT.
Quote (olive @ June 06 2007,06:21) Kiss the Son. psalms, something there, second time I heard the verse today.
It's a favorite along with “Come out of her!”
Ha!Hi not3,
God brought His firstbegotten into the World-Heb 1.
Other sons existed before the foundation of the world-Jb38
I still say the monogenes Son who was sent into the world-1Jn4-is the firstborn.Quote (Not3in1 @ June 06 2007,06:26) Quote (olive @ June 06 2007,06:21) Kiss the Son. psalms, something there, second time I heard the verse today.
It's a favorite along with “Come out of her!”
Ha!
Sorry, n3n1, I have read this twice today, once from an elder I chat w/ and now w/ Nick, that's all.I have read more come out of her, then Kiss the Son, if we are casting lots.
If you took this as more, my apologies, no offense given.
much love
Ha – Olive – certainly no offense. I was just commenting that there are certain little catch-phrases that people like to use. When you are here long enough you pick up on these little sayings that people like to use
Hi not3,
It is a term of importance.
The firstborn son is dedicated to the Lord God.
The firstborn son inherits first.
I do not believe God shares His glory with anyone and His claim to fatherhood in Ps 2 I do not believe relates to sharing parenthood with Mary.Have a great afternoon Olive, Nick, WJ, Tim, and all who are here – I'm heading out to do some work (arrrgh!). I'd love to study all day, but at last I have to work a little……
Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 06 2007,06:59) I do not believe God shares His glory with anyone and His claim to fatherhood in Ps 2 I do not believe relates to sharing parenthood with Mary.
Jesus has glory as the only begotten Son of the Father.God has glory because he is the only true God.
In this way, God is not sharing the glory that belongs to him alone. For God will always be God and having a Son does not diminish that glory.
Ps. 2 can be prophetic as discussed before (some of the things spoken of were in the future – they certainly didn't happen in the OT).
Nick, for me to grasp your theology, you will have to show me where “firstborn” means *only* that Jesus was begotten before he was begotten……
Hi not3,
The first born monogenes Son was sent into the world being conceived of Mary and the Spirit.[Heb1].Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 06 2007,13:05) Hi not3,
The first born monogenes Son was sent into the world being conceived of Mary and the Spirit.[Heb1].
Yes, I've heard this before from you, thank you. However you are denying what true conception means. According to your full theology, Jesus was not conceived in Mary at all.
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