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Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Mar. 05 2010,05:32) Nick…….Here is my take on this……….the orginal deciples wee called at first and they bore the Brunt of the trouble or labor and it cost them there lives to work in the kingdom of GOD they are those who bore the Heat of the day, and later others were added and some of them also gave up their lives for the kingdom of GOD, and as time went on the Labors did not have to face the real trials and testing as the first ones did, and finely it come down into our day When we have very little to endure as opposed to the first and others before Us. In fact this makes us feel in some way rather useless in what we have contributed for the advancement of the Kingdom of GOD. But None the Less WE will recieve the same rewards as they. Now it will be natural for the original apostles to see this as a inequality then being we did not have to endure as they did “the heat of the day” so to speak. But we will recieve the same pay as they are to recieve. On the surface this seem inequitable, but if you think about it , it is not because it destroys any boasting and causes us to realize Salvation is a GIFT of GOD and where does it say if the last were not called first as the original disciples, we would not have went through and endured the same things as they did. GOD is marvelous, how he keep the playing field even. We are those in the Last hour and have very little that can be done now, we can teach and preach without hardly any Church persecutions but our reward is no less then theirs, praise GOD. This is truly marvelous to us, 'O' the richness of GOD always having Love and equity for (ALL). We can never boast in our selves and at the same time neither can the First boast in themselves either. IMO peace and love to you and yours……………gene
GeneI have to confess, because of some of your previous replies on some other subjects, I did not even bother to read your post; I am very much surprised to read what you said, but I CAN NOT disagree with any off it.
You're right on the button, great explanation.Georg
GENE
THIS IS A VERY GOOD EXPLAINATION AND AGREE TO THAT.WE JUST HAVE TO REMEMBRE THE PAY PROPOSED FOR THE WORK WAS ALWAYS THE SAME.
To All………Mat 13:24….>The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field: 25…> But while men slept, his enemys came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way. 26….> But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also. 27….> So the servants of the householder came and said into him Sir, did you not sow good seed in thy field? from whence then has it tares?. 28…> He said unto them, An enemy has done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then we go and gather them up? 29…> But he said, No; lest while you gather the tares, you root up the wheat with them. 30…> Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of the harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
what does this mean ?
peace and love to you all…………gene
Gene
Mat 13:39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
We are at the end of the world, and God will pour out his wrath on all evil nation.
Isa 13:11 And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible.
Jer 25:33 And the slain of the LORD shall be at that day from one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth: they shall not be lamented, neither gathered, nor buried; they shall be dung upon the ground.
This is the time Jesus spoke of in Mat. 24, the tribulation “AFTER” those days, we are in those days.
Mat 24:29 ¶ Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
God will protect his people, and burn, destroy, the tares.
Hsa 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.
Jer 25:29 For, lo, I begin to bring evil on the city which is called by my name (Jerusalem), and should ye be utterly unpunished? Ye shall not be unpunished: for I will call for a sword upon all the inhabitants of the earth, saith the LORD of hosts.
Isa 24:6 Therefore hath the curse devoured the earth, and they that dwell therein are desolate: therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left.
God has punished his people, he will do it to the world; but he will protect his people, those that love his word, and believe it.
Zep 2:3 Seek ye the LORD, all ye meek of the earth, which have wrought his judgment; seek righteousness, seek meekness: it may be ye shall be hid in the day of the LORD'S anger.
Nah 1:7 The LORD is good, a strong hold in the day of trouble; and he knoweth them that trust in him.
We don't know how God will punish the world, but we know we can trust his word.
Georg
Georg………Here is my take on this……….The Kingdom of GOD is liken a Man who sowed good seed in his field. The field is the earth and the good seed is these who have the word of God sown in their hearts, By Jesus they are the wheat the good seed, and as they began to grow there were those who joined them who were not good seed and they began to grow also, these seed came from the world and pagan origins and as long as the Apostles were alive they were kept somewhat separated, but as time went along more and more began to appear in fact they were so many that to remove them would uproot the faith of the good seed also, As the APOSTATE CHURCH grew it began to take over the good seed, but God Kept the good seed , (“sense John the kingdom of GOD is Preached but the violent overtake it with force”) But When the time comes Jesus will send His Angels and separate the good seed from the bad seed. He will remove the Bad seed first leaving the good seed to go into the Kingdom of GOD. The bad seed will be bound over to face the fiery judgments of GOD, where they will be purified and cleansed in the second resurrection. IMO
peace and love………………..gene
GB,
There is no tidy up job and salvation given in the second resurrection but that is your own idea. The life you live now is your opportunity to grasp eternal life.After death comes the judgement[heb9.27].
Life or the second death follows that judgement.[Mt25]
GB,
Can you improve on the explanation of Jesus?
The Tares Explained
36Then He left the crowds and went into (AD)the house And His disciples came to Him and said, “(AE)Explain to us the parable of the tares of the field.”
37And He said, “The one who sows the good seed is (AF)the Son of Man,38and the field is the world; and as for the good seed, these are (AG)the sons of the kingdom; and the tares are (AH)the sons of (AI)the evil one;
39and the enemy who sowed them is the devil, and the harvest is (AJ)the end of the age; and the reapers are angels.
40″So just as the tares are gathered up and burned with fire, so shall it be at (AK)the end of the age.
41″(AL)The Son of Man (AM)will send forth His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all (AN)stumbling blocks, and those who commit lawlessness,
42and (AO)will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place (AP)there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
43″(AQ)Then THE RIGHTEOUS WILL SHINE FORTH AS THE SUN in the kingdom of their Father (AR)He who has ears, let him hear.
Gene
The wrath of God will be on the entire world, not to far from now.
Isa 13:11 And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible.
He will punish the unrighteous by destroying them, but not destroying them for ever. They will be resurrected in the second resurrection, and then be taught by Jesus and his saints.
It is during the millennium when those who refuse to listen, will die again, second death.Act 3:23 And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.
Those that seek God now, and his righteousness, may be hid from his wrath.
Zep 2:3 Seek ye the LORD, all ye meek of the earth, which have wrought his judgment; seek righteousness, seek meekness: it may be ye shall be hid in the day of the LORD'S anger.
After the millennium, and after Satan has been loosed; and after all those that followed Satan have been destroyed.
Rev 20:7 ¶ And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
Rev 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
Rev 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.Then Jesus will turn the kingdom over to the Father.
1Cr 15:25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
1Cr 15:27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
1Cr 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.All the “survivors” will be “all”; when you go and harvest fruit, you don't count all the bad apples that you throw away into with your good, do you? There will be those that will not be in God's kingdom, but it will be their choice.
Georg
georg
2Ti 3:12 In fact, everyone who wants to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted,
2Ti 3:13 while evil men and impostors will go from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived.
2Ti 3:14 But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have become convinced of, because you know those from whom you learned it,2Ti 3:16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,
2Ti 3:17 so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.
2Ti 4:1 In the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who will judge the living and the dead, and in view of his appearing and his kingdom, I give you this charge:
2Ti 4:2 Preach the Word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage—with great patience and careful instruction.
2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.
2Ti 4:4 They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.2Ti 4:5 But you, keep your head in all situations, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelist, discharge all the duties of your ministry.
they still here those guys who make people blow there hears.with myths that is.
Nick………Your belief only would leave a very few to go into the Kingdom of GOD, “MANY CALLED FEW CHOSEN”. So in you theology GOD is a complete failure, He simply is (UNABLE) to (TRULY SAVE ANYONE). But all salvation is a mater of our own so-called “FREE WILLS” . You present a week GOD, who is unable to invoke His WILL over all His creation, But leaves it up to His creation to save itself. Pure garbage and is totally against Scriptures. The good Seed were not born good seed they were seed that were impregnated with the Spirit (intellect) of GOD, and these became the good Seed by the effectual working of GOD the FATHER. All have had there Past as Bad seed, according to Peter, But thanks be to GOD the FATHER they were delivered from the Kingdom of the Adversary to the Kingdom of GOD. If you would take time to look up the word FIRE you would find it can Be taken Literally (OR) fugitively. You make and others here make salvation out as a Chance game, But Jesus and scriptures say differently. “For (NO) Man (CAN) come unto Me (UNLESS) the FATHER (DRAW) HIM”, and what about where Jesus said “FATHER THEY WERE YOURS AND THOU HAS GIVEN THEM UNTO ME”. God will save whomsoever He wills to and your or (NO) man (CAN) Prevent that, He is GOD and YOU are nothing but a Man. He saves whomsoever He Will to with or without our (PERMISSION). Man is (NOT) the Author or finisher of His salvation, but PRIDE does not want it to be that way It wants to Be its OWN GOD.
I could list so many scriptures that Prove that and many here have but you will believe what you will, based on your own ideologies. GOD ALONE (IS) THE SAVIOR OF ALL HIS CREATION, NO matter if you like it or not> Do you think (ANYONE) is going to be able to mouth off about how (THEY) SAVED THEMSELVES, BY THEIR SO-CALLED “FREE WILL” CHOICES. Man is (NOT) given an (OPPORTUNITY) FOR SALVATION, HE (IS) (SAVED) BY THE DETERMINATE WISDOM AND COUNSEL OF GOD. You continually want to make salvation a matter of (MANS) Choice, self empowerment is your focus, not FAITH in the (ONLY) TRUE GOD. Do you think Jesus' salvation was a (chance) salvation, or John the Baptist life was a Chance life, or Moses and all the Prophets were all chance situations by their (SELF) Choices. Pure hog wash. When are you going to truly believe and Trust in the ONE and ONLY TRUE GOD and SAVIOR of ALL MEN> IMO
peace and love………………gene
Gene
You're somewhat right, and somewhat wrong.
This is what is meant by, no man can come to me except the Father draws him.Rom 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
God has not called the whole world at this time, the once he did call, where called from before the world was. God had chosen people from all ages to be called for a special purpose, and unless you were called, you could not come to Jesus.
Rom 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Conform: to be or become similar in form, nature, or character.
Those that were called and conformed to the son were the only once that would receive the nature of Christ after his resurrection.2Pe 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
But, as I said, this does not include the whole world, only those that were “predestined” to be called.
Rom 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
They would be glorified as Jesus is, if they endured to the end, death.
Mat 10:22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.
Rev 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.
The apostles never spoke to the whole world, they always spoke to a select group of people, those that had an “ear” for the truth. The reason the gospel had to be preached into “all” the world was, so that those that were predestined to be called would here it and could respond to it
We are not now living in the time were the world is saved or condemned, we are still in the gospel time, were those that are saved, will be saved by grace by our faith in Christ.
These saints are chosen for the purpose of assisting Christ in the future kingdom of God, as it is an ever increasing kingdom, and never ending.Isa 9:7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.
God will save “all”, for Christ sake, because Christ did die for “all”, but saving is not automatic; if you don't come under the blood of Christ, God “can not” save you, since that is the “only” way he can forgive you your sins; so yes, you decide if you want to be saved or not.
Georg
Georg………..I totally agree with you that the (WHOLE) World is (NOT) called at this time , i have no conflict with that we are in agreement. This is (A) day of salvation (NOT) the (ONLY) day most have not even Heard the name of Jesus much less accepting His sacrifice for our sins, there is another Day for salvation of them when the fall harvest takes place , those who are called Now are in the Spring Harvest the first fruits unto GOD and Jesus himself being the very first born from among Men and all those who are his at his return. We are not separate on this.
peace and love to you and Irene………………….gene
georg
is i understand this clearly ;if i say ;i will mary any women who is drawn me.
or i will mary any women i draw to me.is this the sameting
terraricca
Not that I understand what you said, but I think I know what you're getting at.
God has decided before time who would be drawn/called, no difference. Paul called it Predestination, all the saints were predestined to be called/drawn; no one could decide on his own to follow Jesus.
That is why the gospel was to be preached for a “witness”, for a witness to those that were predestined to be drawn/called; not for the purpose to save the world. Jesus will do that when he begins to rule this world. All of us for instance, that here the word of God, and pay attention to it, let it change our life, will not necessarily be in that first resurrection. If we repent of our sins now, we will have the assurance that Jesus gave the criminal on the cross; “you will be with me in Paradise”. There is nothing lost by obeying God now.Georg
georg
yes you understood were i was going, thank you for it,
I have to disagree with Gene and you and peraps with many others who support that concept.
but will explain why i do not believe it in this way you more clearly see why and respond to me on it, may be i do not see it right,i will ask only to be patient and answer my questions so that i have a some deeper input of that understanding .ty
georg
Lk 11:32 The men of Nineveh will stand up at the judgment with this generation and condemn it; for they repented at the preaching of Jonah, and now one greater than Jonah is here.
Jn 5:22 Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son,Jn 9:39 Jesus said, “For judgment I have come into this world, so that the blind will see and those who see will become blind.”
Jn 12:31 Now is the time for judgment on this world; now the prince of this world will be driven out.
Jn 16:8 When he comes, he will convict the world of guilt in regard to sin and righteousness and judgment:
Jn 16:11 and in regard to judgment, because the prince of this world now stands condemned.Ac 24:25 As Paul discoursed on righteousness, self-control and the judgment to come, Felix was afraid
Zec 8:16 These are the things you are to do: Speak the truth to each other, and render true and sound judgment in your courts;
Mal 3:5 “So I will come near to you for judgment. I will be quick to testify against sorcerers, adulterers and perjurers, against those who defraud laborers of their wages, who oppress the widows and the fatherless, and deprive aliens of justice, but do not fear me,” says the LORD Almighty.the judgment belong to God ,but men are and will be judged,according to what
if god draw all men ,would this mean he also draws the wicket ones ??
if God draws all men good and wicket ,would this not include determinism ??
georg
Jn 9:30 The man answered, “Now that is remarkable! You don’t know where he comes from, yet he opened my eyes.
Jn 9:31 We know that God does not listen to sinners. He listens to the godly man who does his will.
Jn 9:32 Nobody has ever heard of opening the eyes of a man born blind.
Jn 9:33 If this man were not from God, he could do nothing.”
Jn 9:34 To this they replied, “You were steeped in sin at birth; how dare you lecture us!” And they threw him out.Spiritual Blindness
Jn 9:35 Jesus heard that they had thrown him out, and when he found him, he said, “Do you believe in the Son of Man?”
Jn 9:36 “Who is he, sir?” the man asked. “Tell me so that I may believe in him.”is the blind person drawn
terraricca
(((the judgment belong to God ,but men are and will be judged,according to what
)))Jesus did not come the first time to save the world; he came to die for our sins, and to give us the new covenant. But this covenant is not for everybody because it is a covenant in blood, by sacrifice. Only those that were predestined to be called/drawn by God, to Jesus, were likely to follow him into death. They were chosen by God before time to rule and reign with Christ, in his kingdom.
Jn 5:22 Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son,
What does this scripture tell you? why does the Father judges no one? What does judging mean?
Why did Peter say, “For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God”?
The house of God is the church of God, the saints. How were they judged? were they not rather taught? Judging does not mean sentencing, how can you sentence any one without a trial first?
Jesus came to save the world, not to condemn the world; if the world is not first taught, how can Jesus save the world?
That is why God has left all judging/teaching to the son until all sin has been removed.(((is the blind person drawn
)))None of the people Jesus healed were “drawn”, they were chosen at random to show the power of God. Spiritual blindness will prevail until Christ begins to reign, than God will open the minds of all people, including those that never even heard the name Jesus before, that is when he will draw all people to Jesus. Then books will be opened and record every once progress, and after a given time the book will be opened, and if you have not listened to the teaching, have not made any progress, your name will not be in the book of life.
Georg
Hi Georg,
There is no statement in scripture that King Jesus will be tied up educating the masses.THE NATIONS WILL STILL EXIST BUT WILL COME TO LEARN THE WISDOM OF OBEYING THE KING IN JERUSALEM.
The books will be opened when all who are resurrected in the second resurrection after the 1000 year reign will face that King in judgement
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