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Hello All,
I think it would be beneficial for all to discuss our Messiah from using only scripture from the OT.
I have never done such a thing and I’d like to give it a try and see what unfolds!
Looking at scripture only from the OT does your Messiah reflect truth or a tradition?
The image that we each have of the Messiah, how will it hold up just using the OT?
I hope you all join me in this challenge!
Let’s put ourselves back in time before the birth of baby Jesus, and pretend we are people from the tribe of Judah discussing the scriptures of the coming Messiah.
Hi Anthony,
On the other thread you said, “I was going to start with David and Solomon, And study Isaiah lt seem you talk about the alot but I can start with the Messiah. K what do you think? God bless Anthony”
Yes indeed read from there and share their prophecy as it relates to the Messiah and likewise the promises given unto Israel as you will see they are connected. As well God speaks of a new beginning, a new creation in the OT that connects to these as well and we should be sharing that too.
Hi Jodi,
I offer Isaiah 53.
In contrast to the traditional picture of a tall handsome strong and heathy man we see a nondescript, downtrodden, weak, perhaps unattractive man, who was unpopular, and possibly people felt sorry for him. Having no advantages over others , rather being disadvantaged to show the powers of God in him. An anointed man who let God do the works and the talking for him.
The weak shame the strong.
Hi Jodi,
I offer Isaiah 42.
Jesus is shown as a servant, chosen by God, upheld by God, empowered and equipped with
the Holy Spirit. His ways are quiet, gentle, kind and merciful. His work is that of God in him
and he has no power of his own. Appointed to his role he brings light into a darkened world,
healing and freedom, and bringing forth a new, joyful and everlasting creation in the Spirit.
Our Messiah strictly from ancient times / eternity / everlasting
“But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah,
though you are small among the clans[a] of Judah,
out of you will come for me
one who will be ruler over Israel,
whose origins are from of old,
from ancient times.”“But as for you, Bethlehem Ephrathah,
Too little to be among the clans of Judah,
From you One will go forth for Me to be ruler in Israel.
His goings forth are from long ago,
From the days of eternity.”But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah,
though thou be little among the thousands of Judah,
yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel;
whose goings forth have been from of old,
from everlasting.But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah,
though thou be little among the thousands of Judah,
yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel;
whose goings forth have been from of old,
from everlasting. (Micah 5:2)Good verse T8,
And I offer up this verse, which ties the ascension WITH THE DESENSION of Micah 5:2:
Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists?
who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth?
what is his name, and what is his son’s name, if thou canst tell? (Prov 30:4)what is his name ………………..JEHOVAH
and what is his son’s name …..Jesus____________
God bless
Ed JIsaiah 9:6
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Zechariah 11:13
13 And Jehovah said unto me, Cast it unto the potter, the goodly price that I was prized at by them. And I took the thirty pieces of silver, and cast them unto the potter, in the house of Jehovah.
Jeremiah 23:6
5 Behold, the days come, saith Jehovah, that I will raise unto David a righteous [a]Branch, and he shall reign as king and deal wisely, and shall execute justice and righteousness in the land. 6 In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely; and this is his name whereby he shall be called: [c]Jehovah our righteousness.
- Zechariah 12
4 In that day, saith Jehovah, I will smite every horse with terror, and his rider with madness; and I will open mine eyes upon the house of Judah, and will smite every horse of the peoples with blindness. 5 And the chieftains of Judah shall say in their heart, The inhabitants of Jerusalem are my strength in Jehovah of hosts their God. 6 In that day will I make the chieftains of Judah like a pan of fire among wood, and like a flaming torch among sheaves; and they shall devour all the peoples round about, on the right hand and on the left; and they of Jerusalem shall yet again dwell in [d]their own place, even in Jerusalem. 7 Jehovah also shall save the tents of Judah first, that the glory of the house of David and the glory of the inhabitants of Jerusalem be not magnified above Judah. 8 In that day shall Jehovah defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he [e]that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David shall be as God, as the angel of Jehovah before them. 9 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.
10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplication; and they shall look unto [f]me whom they have pierced; and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his first-born.
Jodi….good thread sis, i offer this as reference to JESUS .
Isa 11:1-5 …and there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a “BRANCH” shall grow out of “HIS” ROOTS: 2…and the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom, and understanding the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD.
Verse 3… And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears: verse 4… But with rightiousness shall he Judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth, he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.
Vers 5…and rightiousness shall be the gridle of his loins, and faithfullness the gridle of his reigns.
Peace and love to you all and yours. …..gene
To all….Where did the “rod” or JESUS come from? ,the stem of JESSE. Not from some preexisting place, but from his human roots, through JESSE and was also from king DAVID, just as Jesus said himself was from , he is the root and offspring of king David.
Rev 22:16….I Jesus, (am the root and offspring of David), and the bright and morning star.
Peace and love to you all and yours. ……gene
Good Morning t8,
Thanks for joining in!
“But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah,
though you are small among the clans[a] of Judah,
out of you will come for me
one who will be ruler over Israel,
whose origins are from of old,
from ancient times.”also,
2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from ancient times.
Yes the coming forth, the origins of the Messiah comes from ancient times, from old, from the seed going back to Solomon, to David, to Judah, to Isaac, to Abraham, even to Adam. Going back to in the beginning where God told Adam,
Genesis 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
Even before, as God declared the END from the beginning where a man would executeth the LORD’s council/purpose.
Isaiah 46:9 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me, 10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure: 11 Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it, I will also do it.
The Spirit of the LORD, His Spirit of Wisdom is a Tree of Life and it would rest upon a man and he would know to choose the good and refuse the evil, and no deceit would be found in his mouth. By this man’s knowledge having come from the LORD he will justify many, he will poor his soul unto death and bare the sins of many. However the LORD would not let this HOLY ONE see corruption, David saw his son in glory, and died in the hope of his own resurrection. Pslams 16:9 Therefore my heart is glad, and my glory rejoiceth: my flesh also shall rest in hope. 10 For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
Isaiah 7:13 And he said, Hear ye now, O house of David; Is it a small thing for you to weary men, but will ye weary my God also? 14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel. 15 Butter and honey shall he eat, that he may know to refuse the evil, and choose the good.
Proverbs 3:4 So shalt thou find favour and good understanding in the sight of God and man. 5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. 6 In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths. 7 Be not wise in thine own eyes: fear the LORD, and depart from evil. 8 It shall be health to thy navel, and marrow to thy bones. 9 Honour the LORD with thy substance, and with the firstfruits of all thine increase: 10 So shall thy barns be filled with plenty, and thy presses shall burst out with new wine. 11 My son, despise not the chastening of the LORD; neither be weary of his correction: 12 For whom the LORD loveth he correcteth; even as a father the son in whom he delighteth. 13 Happy is the man that findeth wisdom, and the man that getteth understanding. 14 For the merchandise of it is better than the merchandise of silver, and the gain thereof than fine gold. 15 She is more precious than rubies: and all the things thou canst desire are not to be compared unto her. 16 Length of days is in her right hand; and in her left hand riches and honour. 17 Her ways are ways of pleasantness, and all her paths are peace. 18 She is a tree of life to them that lay hold upon her: and happy is every one that retaineth her. 19 The LORD by wisdom hath founded the earth; by understanding hath he established the heavens. 20 By his knowledge the depths are broken up, and the clouds drop down the dew. 21 My son, let not them depart from thine eyes: keep sound wisdom and discretion: 22 So shall they be life unto thy soul, and grace to thy neck. 23 Then shalt thou walk in thy way safely, and thy foot shall not stumble.
Isaiah 11:1 And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots: 2 And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD; 3 And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears: 4 But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked. 5 And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins.
Proverbs 11:30 The fruit of the righteous is a tree of life; and he that winneth souls is wise.
Proverbs 15:4 A wholesome tongue is a tree of life: but perverseness therein is a breach in the spirit.
Isaiah 53:9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth. 10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand. 11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities. 12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.
lol Gene, you broke the rule, not that it wasn’t a good point!
It was a challenge for me too in my last post not to use the NT.
Hi Ed J,
The LORD VISITS, He comes down and goes up!! He is mindful of the son of man and visits him even to MAKE him to have dominion over the works of His Hands.
Proverbs 30:4 Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his name, and what is his son’s name, if thou canst tell?
The one who hath ascending up into heaven or descended?..is not the son here Ed J, but the father.
Soon later we read as posted earlier,
Proverbs 34:19 The LORD by wisdom hath founded the earth; by understanding hath he established the heavens. 20 By his knowledge the depths are broken up, and the clouds drop down the dew. 21 My son, let not them depart from thine eyes: keep sound wisdom and discretion: 22 So shall they be life unto thy soul, and grace to thy neck. 23 Then shalt thou walk in thy way safely, and thy foot shall not stumble.
Who ascends to heaven after descending from heaven?
Exodus 3:7 And the LORD said, I have surely seen the affliction of my people which are in Egypt, and have heard their cry by reason of their taskmasters; for I know their sorrows; 8 And I am come down to deliver them out of the hand of the Egyptians, and to bring them up out of that land unto a good land and a large, unto a land flowing with milk and honey; unto the place of the Canaanites, and the Hittites, and the Amorites, and the Perizzites, and the Hivites, and the Jebusites.
Genesis 18:20 And the LORD said, Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous; 21 I will go down now, and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and if not, I will know.
Exodus 19:11 And be ready against the third day: for the third day the LORD will come down in the sight of all the people upon mount Sinai.
Psalms 1:5 Bow thy heavens, O LORD, and come down: touch the mountains, and they shall smoke
Isaiah 31:4 For thus hath the LORD spoken unto me, Like as the lion and the young lion roaring on his prey, when a multitude of shepherds is called forth against him, he will not be afraid of their voice, nor abase himself for the noise of them: so shall the LORD of hosts come down to fight for mount Zion, and for the hill thereof.
Micah 1:3 For, behold, the LORD cometh forth out of his place, and will come down, and tread upon the high places of the earth.
Psalms 8:4 What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him? 5 For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour. 6 Thou madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands; thou hast put all things under his feet:
Psalms 106:4 Remember me, O LORD, with the favour that thou bearest unto thy people: O visit me with thy salvation;
Isaiah 23:17 And it shall come to pass after the end of seventy years, that the LORD will visit Tyre, and she shall turn to her hire, and shall commit fornication with all the kingdoms of the world upon the face of the earth.
Jeremiah 6:15 Were they ashamed when they had committed abomination? nay, they were not at all ashamed, neither could they blush: therefore they shall fall among them that fall: at the time that I visit them they shall be cast down, saith the LORD.
Jeremiah 15:15 O LORD, thou knowest: remember me, and visit me, and revenge me of my persecutors; take me not away in thy longsuffering: know that for thy sake I have suffered rebuke.
Jeremiah 29:10 For thus saith the LORD, That after seventy years be accomplished at Babylon I will visit you, and perform my good word toward you, in causing you to return to this place.
Hi LU,
The LORD made Moses into a god unto Pharoah,
1 And the LORD said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.
God said that He came down unto Moses, God made Moses into a god where Moses had great powers. Moses said that God would raise up a prophet like Moses and the people would hear him. God would make this man also in a mighty god!! Jehovah SAID He would be mindful of the SON OF MAN, He would visit him, and Jehovah would make him be a little lower than the angels, but Jehovah would crown him with glory and MAKE him to have dominion over His Hands.
Psalms 82:1 God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods. (elohiym) 2 How long will ye judge unjustly, and accept the persons of the wicked? Selah. 3 Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy. 4 Deliver the poor and needy: rid them out of the hand of the wicked. 5 They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course. 6 I have said, Ye are gods (elohiym); and all of you are children of the most High. 7 But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes. 8 Arise, O God, judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations.
elohiym,
rulers, judges
divine ones
angels
gods
(plural intensive – singular meaning)
god, goddess
godlike one
works or special possessions of God
the (true) God
GodMIGHTY MEN are referred to as gods LU!! The LORD makes mighty gods!
Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. 7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.
word “God” from Isaiah 9:6 used is el,
represents many things,
god, god-like one, mighty one
mighty men, men of rank, mighty heroes
angels
god, false god, (demons, imaginations)
God, the one true God, Jehovah
mighty things in nature
strength, powerword LORD Isaiah 9:7 Y@hovah
Jehovah = “the existing One”
the proper name of the one true GodTHE CHILD is NEVER called Jehovah LU, the son of David is never called Jehovah LU.
The child that grows into a man does not perform this by himself through himself, his performance occurs through Jehovah visiting Him, placing His Spirit upon a man. He SHALL BE CALLED a Prince of Peace because Jehovah will CAUSE him to be a savior. He did not already exist as the Prince of Peace, Jehovah did declare the end FROM the beginning LU!!
Jeremiah 23:6
5 Behold, the days come, saith Jehovah, that I will raise unto David a righteous [a]Branch, and he shall reign as king and deal wisely, and shall execute justice and righteousness in the land. 6 In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely; and this is his name whereby he shall be called: [c]Jehovah our righteousness.
YES LU HUMANS are CALLED BY Jehovah’s NAME!! That does not MAKE them Jehovah by any stretch of the imagination.
REMEMBER this is PROPHECY,
Isaiah 43:6 I will say to the north, Give up; and to the south, Keep not back: bring my sons from far, and my daughters from the ends of the earth; 7 Even every one that is called by my name: for I have created him for my glory, I have formed him; yea, I have made him. 8 Bring forth the blind people that have eyes, and the deaf that have ears. 9 Let all the nations be gathered together, and let the people be assembled: who among them can declare this, and shew us former things? let them bring forth their witnesses, that they may be justified: or let them hear, and say, It is truth. 10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my SERVANT whom I have CHOSEN: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. 11 I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour. 12 I have declared, and have saved, and I have shewed, when there was no strange god among you: therefore ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, that I am God. 13 Yea, before the day was I am he; and there is none that can deliver out of my hand: I will work, and who shall let it? 14 Thus saith the LORD, your redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; For your sake I have sent to Babylon, and have brought down all their nobles, and the Chaldeans, whose cry is in the ships. 15 I am the LORD, your Holy One, the creator of Israel, your King.Jehovah chooses a human servant and He uses him to save. There is NO other God that can perform this!! Only Jehovah through His Spirit can he bring the SON OF MAN to be a savior.This savior is called by Jehovah’s NAME, likewise are Jehovah’s people and the city that Jehovah’s brings forth. THAT DOESN’T MAKE them Jehovah LU!!Daniel 9: 19 O Lord, hear; O Lord, forgive; O Lord, hearken and do; defer not, for thine own sake, O my God: for thy city and thy people are called by thy name.Amos 9:11 In that day will I raise up the tabernacle of David that is fallen, and close up the breaches thereof; and I will raise up his ruins, and I will build it as in the days of old: 12 That they may possess the remnant of Edom, and of all the heathen, which are called by my name, saith the LORD that doeth this. 13 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that the plowman shall overtake the reaper, and the treader of grapes him that soweth seed; and the mountains shall drop sweet wine, and all the hills shall melt. 14 And I will bring again the captivity of my people of Israel, and they shall build the waste cities, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and drink the wine thereof; they shall also make gardens, and eat the fruit of them. 15 And I will plant them upon their land, and they shall no more be pulled up out of their land which I have given them, saith the LORD thy God.Hi,
Zech 14 makes plain that it is God that will go forth in battle and He will be king over all the earth.
The Son is the mighty vessel for God and those who would try to separate the Father from the Son are misled.
Hi,
Zech 2.8
For thus says the Lord of Hosts
’After glory He has sent me against the nations which plunder you,
for he who touches you touches the apple of His eye’
Zech 12.10
I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the Spirit of Grace
and of supplication, so they will look on Me Whom they have pierced,
and they will mourn for him, as one mourns for an only son,
and they will weep bitterly over him like the bitter weeping over a firstborn.
What was done to Jesus Christ was done to God in him.
By the Spirit they will know this.
Thanks Nick, great passages.
Jehovah is our savior, there is NO ONE ELSE, He chose a man from the tribe of Judah and His Spirit visited him giving him wisdom, understanding and power, and then this righteous man was brought forth to die for our sins.They denied the LORD’S messenger spoken by the prophets from the days of old, and thus they were denying the LORD Himself, so as they pierced the Messiah they were likewise piercing our LORD.
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