original sin

[dirtyknections]

Ok…for those that may wonder…I consider myself a Deist…but I have as of late been thinking about the concept of “original sin”

I'll start by asking a question…and we will see where this goes…

Is it fair that I be punished for something I did not do?

[kerwin]

Quote (dirtyknections @ Nov. 18 2009,02:48)

Ok…for those that may wonder…I consider myself a Deist…but I have as of late been thinking about the concept of “original sin” I'll start by asking a question…and we will see where this goes… Is it fair that I be punished for something I did not do?

There is more that one concept of “original sin” as it is an implied tenet.

I believe that we inherit a corrupt sin from or ancestors.

My father was an alcoholic and I suffered for his sins.  Was that fair?

Had he felt compassion for my suffering then he would have strove to change.

When Adam and Eve chose to sin they corrupted the human spirit and it is that corrupted spirit that was passed on to their descendants.

Jesus was a new prototype whose spirit is not corrupted.   It is through obeying all his teachings that we can therefore receive a new spirit created like God in true righteousness and holiness.

[NickHassan]

Hi KW,
Where is the CORRUPTED SPIRIT of man shown in scripture or is this just an opinion?
We do start behind the 8 ball though as the god of this world has given us all lusts that can conceive[Jas]

[dirtyknections]

Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 18 2009,08:15)

Quote (dirtyknections @ Nov. 18 2009,02:48) Ok…for those that may wonder…I consider myself a Deist…but I have as of late been thinking about the concept of “original sin” I'll start by asking a question…and we will see where this goes… Is it fair that I be punished for something I did not do? There is more that one concept of “original sin” as it is an implied tenet. I believe that we inherit a corrupt sin from or ancestors. My father was an alcoholic and I suffered for his sins.  Was that fair? Had he felt compassion for my suffering then he would have strove to change. When Adam and Eve chose to sin they corrupted the human spirit and it is that corrupted spirit that was passed on to their descendants. Jesus was a new prototype whose spirit is not corrupted.   It is through obeying all his teachings that we can therefore receive a new spirit created like God in true righteousness and holiness.

Expound on this “corruption” as you called it…what exactly is it?

[kerwin]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 18 2009,03:18)

Hi KW, Where is the CORRUPTED SPIRIT of man shown in scripture or is this just an opinion? We do start behind the 8 ball though as the god of this world has given us all lusts that can conceive[Jas]

Scripture uses other words to express the same concept.  

I am sure that you realize that the “new man” in Ephesians 4:24 and Colossians 3:10 is the spirit of righteousness.

Ephesians 4:24(KJV) reads:

Quote

And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

and

Colossians 3:10(KJV) reads:

Quote

And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:

and yet you seem blind to the idea that the “old man” in other scriptures is the corrupted spirit of man.

Romans 6:6(KJV) reads:

Quote

Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

and

Ephesians 4:22(KJV) reads:

Quote

That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;

and

Colossians 3:9(KJV) reads:

Quote

Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;

It seems so self evident to me that I do not see how to make it any clearer than God has already made it.

[kerwin]

Quote (dirtyknections @ Nov. 18 2009,03:31)

Expound on this “corruption” as you called it…what exactly is it?

A man controlled by the corrupt spirit will choose to violate the law “to love your neighbor and yourself as God commands”.

Any list I choose to compose of such actions will not be all inclusive and would probably just include a few generic examples as man can be inventive.

[NickHassan]

Hi KW,
So such SPIRIT CORRUPTION is a human religious term foreign to scripture?
Or do you speak of those demons or evil spirits?

[kerwin]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 18 2009,03:57)

Hi KW, So such SPIRIT CORRUPTION is a human religious term foreign to scripture? Or do you speak of those demons or evil spirits?

What?

I assure you that the original manuscripts were not written in modern English as it was not around yet so the words we read in English language versions are foreign to scripture.

The translators attempted to translate the concepts that were in the original language to being in our English language.  Using “corrupt spirit” instead of “old man” is merely translating a symbolic word into a more literal one.

This is certainly not rocket science.

[NickHassan]

Hi BD,
OLD MAN is not spirit but BODY.
Any more scriptures?

[942767]

Quote (dirtyknections @ Nov. 18 2009,07:48)

Ok…for those that may wonder…I consider myself a Deist…but I have as of late been thinking about the concept of “original sin” I'll start by asking a question…and we will see where this goes… Is it fair that I be punished for something I did not do?

Hi DK

Sin entered into the world through Adam and Eve, but he is not responsible for your sin or mine. We all are born into the world where sin abounds, but I can't blame anyone else for what I have done. I am accountable to God for the life that I have lived.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[bodhitharta]

Quote (942767 @ Nov. 18 2009,09:55)

Quote (dirtyknections @ Nov. 18 2009,07:48) Ok…for those that may wonder…I consider myself a Deist…but I have as of late been thinking about the concept of “original sin” I'll start by asking a question…and we will see where this goes… Is it fair that I be punished for something I did not do? Hi DK Sin entered into the world through Adam and Eve, but he is not responsible for your sin or mine.  We all are born into the world where sin abounds, but I can't blame anyone else for what I have done.  I am accountable to God for the life that I have lived. Love in Christ, Marty

Then how could you have original sin?

[bodhitharta]

Quote (dirtyknections @ Nov. 18 2009,07:48)

Ok…for those that may wonder…I consider myself a Deist…but I have as of late been thinking about the concept of “original sin” I'll start by asking a question…and we will see where this goes… Is it fair that I be punished for something I did not do?

Galatians 6

5For every man shall bear his own burden.

[942767]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 18 2009,10:11)

Quote (942767 @ Nov. 18 2009,09:55) Quote (dirtyknections @ Nov. 18 2009,07:48) Ok…for those that may wonder…I consider myself a Deist…but I have as of late been thinking about the concept of “original sin” I'll start by asking a question…and we will see where this goes… Is it fair that I be punished for something I did not do? Hi DK Sin entered into the world through Adam and Eve, but he is not responsible for your sin or mine.  We all are born into the world where sin abounds, but I can't blame anyone else for what I have done.  I am accountable to God for the life that I have lived. Love in Christ, Marty Then how could you have original sin?

I don't adhere to the doctrine of original sin.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[peace2all]

romans 5:12,13 – says a lot. “that is why, just as through one man sin entered into the world and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men because they had all sinned. for until the law sin was in the world but sin is not charged against anyone when there is no law……so it clearly says that there was sin from the begining but if there was no act on it then it cannot be charged against anyone, but the act of sin did accure when adam & eve disobeyed god and we thus given death and kicked out of eden. and all offspring hasa inherited tht trait. “death spread to all men because they had all sinned”. i use gods wrod the bible scriptures not own opinions or man made intertwined ideas and doctrines.

[bodhitharta]

Quote (peace2all @ Nov. 18 2009,14:31)

romans 5:12,13 – says a lot.    “that is why, just as through one man sin entered into the world and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men because they had all sinned.  for until the law sin was in the world but sin is not charged against anyone when there is no law……so it clearly says that there was sin from the begining but if there was no act on it then it cannot be charged against anyone, but the act of sin did accure when adam & eve disobeyed god and we thus given death and kicked out of eden. and all offspring hasa inherited tht trait. “death spread to all men because they had all sinned”.  i use gods wrod the bible scriptures not own opinions or man made intertwined ideas and doctrines.

You are completely wrong if you were right God would have told cain he was born in sin, yet he told Cain that he could rule over it.

[bodhitharta]

Quote (942767 @ Nov. 18 2009,11:25)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 18 2009,10:11) Quote (942767 @ Nov. 18 2009,09:55) Quote (dirtyknections @ Nov. 18 2009,07:48) Ok…for those that may wonder…I consider myself a Deist…but I have as of late been thinking about the concept of “original sin” I'll start by asking a question…and we will see where this goes… Is it fair that I be punished for something I did not do? Hi DK Sin entered into the world through Adam and Eve, but he is not responsible for your sin or mine.  We all are born into the world where sin abounds, but I can't blame anyone else for what I have done.  I am accountable to God for the life that I have lived. Love in Christ, Marty Then how could you have original sin? I don't adhere to the doctrine of original sin.   Love in Christ, Marty

That's good to know!

[peace2all]

i'm not wrong the words are in the scriptures they are gods adn they are right there for you to read you choose to not accept it. and now your telling me what god would do . like i said i use the scriptures and they tell you the truth – your whole thing is your opinion – you telling us what god would do or wouldn't . didn't know you know what he does and doesn't . you speculate. the versus i wrote are very direct and to the point, you cannot miss interpret them at all.

[peace2all]

BD then why do we grow old and sick and die , when adam originally was perfect and death free until the act of sin was commited? answer that please. because if we didn't inherit that trait of sin from them then we should be perfect and not grow old or die or get sick. man was put on earth to taker care of it adn all the living souls(creatures) upon it forever, now they were warned that they would die if they ate from the forbidden tree – now adam had to have had a grasp of what death was otherwise how would he understand what god ment, thus most likely he probably seen animals die and knew what was at stake. so when they did the act and commited sin by disobeying they were sentenced with death and death has been handed down to all men becasue we all sinned. so therefore it has been carried down from his line since they are two who started the earth population. if not and were not responsible for other peoples action or did not inherit it then by your thinking we should be like the original adam & eve yet were not. please read romans 5:12,13 – read it for what it says not you.

[kerwin]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 18 2009,04:18)

Hi BD, OLD MAN is not spirit but BODY. Any more scriptures?

I think you meant to address that to me not BD.

Whatever the case here is my answer.

Then by your reasoning “new man” must be body as well.

I am of course assuming your reasoning is consistent.

[kerwin]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 18 2009,09:40)

Quote (peace2all @ Nov. 18 2009,14:31) romans 5:12,13 – says a lot.    “that is why, just as through one man sin entered into the world and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men because they had all sinned.  for until the law sin was in the world but sin is not charged against anyone when there is no law……so it clearly says that there was sin from the begining but if there was no act on it then it cannot be charged against anyone, but the act of sin did accure when adam & eve disobeyed god and we thus given death and kicked out of eden. and all offspring hasa inherited tht trait. “death spread to all men because they had all sinned”.  i use gods wrod the bible scriptures not own opinions or man made intertwined ideas and doctrines. You are completely wrong if you were right God would have told cain he was born in sin, yet he told Cain that he could rule over it.

Could you please point me to the address of that scripture. Thank you.

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